Bragging about being an advocate of forced birth

[Tator Tot Tubby]

Someone should get child services involved with that woman. She clearly should not have any power over her daughter. She is so incredibly abusive! I want to go find this poor girl and help her

[GeoBQn]

Here's what I was talking about when I said that religious forced-birth advocates think that only their particular religious convictions come into play. Other religious viewpoints that allow contraception or abortion are simply dismissed as not truly religious: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/jewish ... -perverse/

Ug, can't even bring myself to click that link. I will console myself with this discovery of a Yiddish translation of Margaret Sanger's "What Every Girl Should Know," printed in 1916.

http://archive.org/stream/nybc211933

[FireIsCatching89]

Ug, can't even bring myself to click that link. I will console myself with this discovery of a Yiddish translation of Margaret Sanger's "What Every Girl Should Know," printed in 1916.

http://archive.org/stream/nybc211933

Ugh, don't. The anti-Semitism is making me both furious and nauseated. I'm surprised I haven't read a comment on there about how "the Jews control PP so they want the abortion money!!!1!!!1111!"

Edited for grammatical riffles.

[RR88]

Ugh, don't. The anti-Semitism is making me both furious and nauseated. I'm surprised I haven't read a comment on there about how "the Jews control PP so they want the abortion money!!!1!!!1111!"

Some people (I don't remember if it's regarding that article specifically) on that site have said that Jews control the media and that most abortion providers are Jews. What I cannot wrap my head around is this: Why is the Roman Catholic position on contraception and abortion seen as the only legitimate one? I mean, they obviously believe they're right (as most religious people do), but this seems to go beyond that. A lot of people on that site seem legitimately angry that Islamic and Jewish law are not against contraception and abortion as uniformly as the Roman Catholic Church is. I just don't get it. Could someone explain that to me? Perhaps it has to do with the fact that learning Jewish (and other) views on reproduction crushes their beloved belief in a monolithic "Judeo-Christian heritage".

[GeoBQn]

I think it was Kathryn Joyce's Quiverfull that said in Poland, there's a popular conspiracy theory that Jews run the abortion industry even though there are hardly any Jews left in the country.

[nomi]

I remember some years back there were a lot of pharmacists refusing to fill Plan B prescriptions because of their "morals." My mom is a pharmacist, reformed fundie, and extremely religious and conservative. We got into a discussion about the topic and surprisingly she said that she would fill it no problem at all because IT'S NOT AN ABORTION. There is NO baby to die.

[FireIsCatching89]

And now I just finished reading it. Disgusting. That woman is a sad excuse for a mother, and has more respect for a potential zygote than her own living, breathing child who was raped.

And not one word about what her daughter thought, felt, or wanted. Regardless of her cognitive abilities, as a human being, isn't that the least she deserves? But no, just like Palin and Santorum, a disabled child is not a human being deserving of dignity, but merely a convenient political prop to hold up one's cred as the most pro-"life." :evil:

You just summed up my feelings when I see those pro-life pictures of Downs Syndrome kids that say "I have Downs, but Downs doesn't have me" and everyone just fawns. These kids are being put on a pedastal and seen as NOT HUMAN, but like...angels or somethimg. I have worked with special needs kids, and they are a LOT of work. A lot of people who talk about shit like this think "oh, the kid has Downs (as an example) that just means they need some extra love." NO IT DOESN'T. It means that this child has increased chances of heart disease and leukemia, may never be able to live on their own, need a lot of extra early intervention, etc. etc. Love can only do so much. Sometimes, people don't have the emotional or financial resources to deal with these things, and then abortion IS the loving option. But no, let's just turn a special needs kid into a humanlike prop!

AGHHHHHHH!

Sorry. I just drank a Coke and the sugar and caffeine are hitting.

[Maul the Koala]

You just summed up my feelings when I see those pro-life pictures of Downs Syndrome kids that say "I have Downs, but Downs doesn't have me" and everyone just fawns. These kids are being put on a pedastal and seen as NOT HUMAN, but like...angels or somethimg. I have worked with special needs kids, and they are a LOT of work. A lot of people who talk about shit like this think "oh, the kid has Downs (as an example) that just means they need some extra love." NO IT DOESN'T. It means that this child has increased chances of heart disease and leukemia, may never be able to live on their own, need a lot of extra early intervention, etc. etc. Love can only do so much. Sometimes, people don't have the emotional or financial resources to deal with these things, and then abortion IS the loving option. But no, let's just turn a special needs kid into a humanlike prop!

AGHHHHHHH!

Sorry. I just drank a Coke and the sugar and caffeine are hitting.

Been reading the Life Begins At Conception page eh? Me and my 20 personalities have been liking everything on that page. C'mon fan of the week!

Also according to the blog this family is under investigation by CPS. she obviously believes in the whole suffering brings you closer to God BS. She can be a martyr for her cause, I hope her children never speak to her again and she dies with only her suffering. Just desserts.

[NurseNell]

I'm just floored she thinks her child who has the mental capacity of an 8-10 year old is fit enough to go through pregnancy. With bipolar disorder no less. The hormonal changes of pregnancy can mess up the most stable of people with bipolar disorder. That's not even negligent, that is downright abusive.

http://www.kissingtheleper.com/2012/04/bullying.html

There's her blog post on the subject of 'being attacked'.

I'm pro-life and if this was my daughter she'd be getting Plan b in this scenario. Actually, she'd be on depo shots if she truly functions at the 8 - 10 year level. It is almost impossible to get special needs girls who are low functioning permanent birth control. We did have 1 Mom who found an OB/GYN to do a hysterectomy on her severely autistic, low IQ daughter but it was mainly because she had horrendous periods and could not take care of herself.

[NurseNell]

As much as I would prefer to know what's happening with my minor child should I ever children, this is why minors should get to make decisions about their own health. Bipolar or not, she can make her own decisions about her body. If she wanted Plan B, they should be able to give it to her without her parents consent.

If she truly is developmentally delayed then no, she can't make decisions about her own body. This has nothing to do with being bi-polar. Usually the parent is appointed guardian at age 18 but you can also have a court appointed guardian. If a medical person or someone else involved in the case files a complaint there's a change the court could appoint a different guardian. I missed how old this girl is.

[Maul the Koala]

I'm pro-life and if this was my daughter she'd be getting Plan b in this scenario. Actually, she'd be on depo shots if she truly functions at the 8 - 10 year level. It is almost impossible to get special needs girls who are low functioning permanent birth control. We did have 1 Mom who found an OB/GYN to do a hysterectomy on her severely autistic, low IQ daughter but it was mainly because she had horrendous periods and could not take care of herself.

I would be doing everything in my power to prevent a pregnancy if my daughter functioned at the mental level of an 8-10 year old. Disabled people are seen as easy prey by predators as it is. :( It's just responsible as a parent.

The more I read this woman's blog the less I believe the story but it confirms that she is one abusive parent regardless. Hate to beat it to you lady, but being abusive towards your children doesn't bring anyone closer to God. It just brings you closer to a nursing home and spending your last years shunned.

[NurseNell]

I would be doing everything in my power to prevent a pregnancy if my daughter functioned at the mental level of an 8-10 year old. Disabled people are seen as easy prey by predators as it is. :( It's just responsible as a parent.

The more I read this woman's blog the less I believe the story but it confirms that she is one abusive parent regardless. Hate to beat it to you lady, but being abusive towards your children doesn't bring anyone closer to God. It just brings you closer to a nursing home and spending your last years shunned.

I realize now this event happened in February. I tried to see if there have been any recent updates on her daughter, I don't see any. I'm guessing the daughter is not pregnant, a blessing. I couldn't find out how old the girl is, just that she disappeared after school. In most, if not all states, developmentally delayed kids have bus to door transportation so I wonder what happened.

[notacleverpony]

Her daughter may be bipolar, but her mom sounds like a narcissist. No matter what happens to anyone else, the situation is always about HER, about HER ethical dilemma, about HER struggle. Anyone else is just a bit player, so much set dressing.

...I'm not drunk enough for this level of fuckery. Not yet, anyway.

[shesinsane]

I'm quite new here - ok, very new - and have never heard people use the term forced birth for not being allowed to have abortion before, but I think i'm going to use that term in the future. :) Because that's exactly what it is, FORCED birth.

It's sad but true. Many people who call themselves "pro life" don't mind killing people they think are criminals, they don't mind pollution in the water we drink and the food we eat, and they certainly don't want their taxes dollars wasted feeding children whose parents cannot afford to feed them (even though letting them starve to death isn't very pro life). They really don't care about the quality of life a child has after it's born, they just want it born. Hence, "forced birth". Oh, and many "pro lifers" don't think abortion is ok when the mother's life is at risk - because they're only pro life for the zygote, not the owner of the uterus turning it into a baby. They seem to think women dying in childbirth only happened prior to the industrial revolution.

[Effie]

I posted about this woman a few weeks ago. I was white-hot with rage. That fucking bitch...she did NOT have the right to withhold even the knowledge of the Plan B. from her daughter.

I'm furious as well! The daughter was not just abused once, but twice! Abused once by a rapist, and abused once by her mother. The mother abused her position as the daughter's caregiver.

[alysee]

It's sad but true. Many people who call themselves "pro life" don't mind killing people they think are criminals, they don't mind pollution in the water we drink and the food we eat, and they certainly don't want their taxes dollars wasted feeding children whose parents cannot afford to feed them (even though letting them starve to death isn't very pro life). They really don't care about the quality of life a child has after it's born, they just want it born. Hence, "forced birth". Oh, and many "pro lifers" don't think abortion is ok when the mother's life is at risk - because they're only pro life for the zygote, not the owner of the uterus turning it into a baby. They seem to think women dying in childbirth only happened prior to the industrial revolution.

Amen!

[2xx1xy1JD]

Here's what I was talking about when I said that religious forced-birth advocates think that only their particular religious convictions come into play. Other religious viewpoints that allow contraception or abortion are simply dismissed as not truly religious: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/jewish ... -perverse/

Describing Ray Comfort as the "Jewish" creator of the movie?

Look, I fully acknowledge that Jewish law defines a Jew as anyone who is born to a Jewish mother, but in this context describing Comfort as "Jewish" without further explanation is just deceptive. He's a man who happened to be born to a Jewish mother but received no Jewish education, and who has been ordained as an evangelical Christian pastor.

I wonder what LifeSite has to say about PETA's "Holocaust on your plate" campaign? IIRC, Foxman condemned that for the same reason - it trivializes the Holocaust in the name of scoring political points for another cause.

[BelieveinScience]

You just summed up my feelings when I see those pro-life pictures of Downs Syndrome kids that say "I have Downs, but Downs doesn't have me" and everyone just fawns. These kids are being put on a pedastal and seen as NOT HUMAN, but like...angels or somethimg. I have worked with special needs kids, and they are a LOT of work. A lot of people who talk about shit like this think "oh, the kid has Downs (as an example) that just means they need some extra love." NO IT DOESN'T. It means that this child has increased chances of heart disease and leukemia, may never be able to live on their own, need a lot of extra early intervention, etc. etc. Love can only do so much. Sometimes, people don't have the emotional or financial resources to deal with these things, and then abortion IS the loving option. But no, let's just turn a special needs kid into a humanlike prop!

AGHHHHHHH!

Sorry. I just drank a Coke and the sugar and caffeine are hitting.

I know a lot of people in the Down Syndrome community and it honestly outrages me that they spout off about kids with DS shouldn't be aborted and crucify people who abort their kids for having DS. Individuals who know how much having a kid with DS costs. Not everyone can handle that and it should be a CHOICE for them. A mom with two kids she adopted with DS made a really awesome post about DS and abortion and it was the most eye opening thing to me- (http://pudgeandzippy.blogspot.com/2011/10/off-of-my-chest.html). I emailed her about and she went on to tell that kids with DS who end up in teh foster care system- ahuge chunk don't end up getting adopted when they get older because people with DS are only cute when they are little and when their attitude and personalities start to show parents/people don't want to deal with it.

I hate how people try to control others lives that like that. Everyone has the option of having a choice. This woman's daughter should have a had a choice and not had it forced upon her to not be able to take the plan b pill.

[2xx1xy1JD]

As for the OP - it's just disturbing on so many levels.

I can't determine whether or not parts of the blog post were fake, esp. since the law is quite different in Canada.

I can say that I'm grateful that in Ontario, Canada, minors who are capable of making their own medical decisions are permitted to do so. My kids' doctor kicks the parents out of the room once they turn 12.

If that story had happened in my jurisdiction, I'd seriously consider it to be a child protection issue worthy of reporting - both for the incredible breach of privacy of a minor and victim of sexual assault, and for failure to consent to proper medical care.

Since I have a child with precocious puberty who was capable of becoming pregnant at age 8, I have thought about what I would do if she was ever (G-d forbid) raped. Obviously, we would give her Plan B. When she was 8, though, I remembered reading that horrible case in Central America where a mother was ex-communicated for arranging an abortion for her 9-year-old who was pregnant with twins and told that carrying to term would likely kill her. The thought occurred to me that in a situation like that, I might just tell her that she had a "growth" in her tummy and needed a surgical procedure to fix it. My thinking was that in that case, her body would be unlikely to be able to sustain a pregnancy without causing tons of damage and even threatening her life, and therefore it would be my right and responsibility to make sure that she had the abortion. If it was clearly necessary for medical reasons and if she was that young, I might be reluctant to burden her with the full information, particularly if I was living in a setting where she would encounter such extreme pro-life protests.

[FireIsCatching89]

As for the OP - it's just disturbing on so many levels.

I can't determine whether or not parts of the blog post were fake, esp. since the law is quite different in Canada.

I can say that I'm grateful that in Ontario, Canada, minors who are capable of making their own medical decisions are permitted to do so. My kids' doctor kicks the parents out of the room once they turn 12.

If that story had happened in my jurisdiction, I'd seriously consider it to be a child protection issue worthy of reporting - both for the incredible breach of privacy of a minor and victim of sexual assault, and for failure to consent to proper medical care.

Since I have a child with precocious puberty who was capable of becoming pregnant at age 8, I have thought about what I would do if she was ever (G-d forbid) raped. Obviously, we would give her Plan B. When she was 8, though, I remembered reading that horrible case in Central America where a mother was ex-communicated for arranging an abortion for her 9-year-old who was pregnant with twins and told that carrying to term would likely kill her. The thought occurred to me that in a situation like that, I might just tell her that she had a "growth" in her tummy and needed a surgical procedure to fix it. My thinking was that in that case, her body would be unlikely to be able to sustain a pregnancy without causing tons of damage and even threatening her life, and therefore it would be my right and responsibility to make sure that she had the abortion. If it was clearly necessary for medical reasons and if she was that young, I might be reluctant to burden her with the full information, particularly if I was living in a setting where she would encounter such extreme pro-life protests.

I think that is so important! I was around that age (maybe a bit older, 13-14) when my mom got booted for part of the exam and the doctor just kind of "leveled" with me. And my parents have always considered my wishes concerning my medical treatment since...I guess I was about twelve or so? Since I could really start thinking about it? I remember solidly making my own choices about dental work that I did or did not want done when I was only 14, and making my own choices about starting and stopping acne treatment since I was about the same age. Those were mostly cosmetic, but even then, the fact that I was allowed to make those choices on my own, and my parents didn't push me one way or the other, really means a lot to me, especially now that I am reading about cases like this. I also remember explaining to my mother my desire to try medicine to treat my depression when I was 15, and her respecting my choice, despite her misgivings on medicating a child so young. I don't think I realized how hard it must have been for her at the time, letting me do that (particularly since she didn't know just HOW ill I was, since I took pains to hide it), but I'm grateful she did.

And bless you, you show such grace talking about your daughter with precocious puberty. I think the scenario you painted above is a good way of dealing with a truly shitty situation, and your daughter is so lucky to have such a mom!

[FireIsCatching89]

I know a lot of people in the Down Syndrome community and it honestly outrages me that they spout off about kids with DS shouldn't be aborted and crucify people who abort their kids for having DS. Individuals who know how much having a kid with DS costs. Not everyone can handle that and it should be a CHOICE for them. A mom with two kids she adopted with DS made a really awesome post about DS and abortion and it was the most eye opening thing to me- (http://pudgeandzippy.blogspot.com/2011/ ... chest.html). I emailed her about and she went on to tell that kids with DS who end up in teh foster care system- ahuge chunk don't end up getting adopted when they get older because people with DS are only cute when they are little and when their attitude and personalities start to show parents/people don't want to deal with it.

I hate how people try to control others lives that like that. Everyone has the option of having a choice. This woman's daughter should have a had a choice and not had it forced upon her to not be able to take the plan b pill.

SO TRUE. One of the big issues with a lot of older people with Down's is hypersexuality, and something tells me that these people wouldn't want to deal with that...oy vey.

[Maul the Koala]

I think a lot of people forget there are so many children in foster care waiting for a mom and dad. But because they aren't newborns, specifically healthy white newborns, they get pushed to the side and forgot about. It's so nice to protect the infant before they're born but what about afterwards? That's why I have a hard time with a lot of hardcore pro-life people. They are so hellbent on the rights of the child beforehand but ever so conveniently forget about the care that these children waiting for parents need. It's fine to let a young child bounce around in foster care until they're 18 but oh no there is a woman who might abort her baby!!1111!!! Messed up priorities indeed.

[ellerigby]

I know a lot of people in the Down Syndrome community and it honestly outrages me that they spout off about kids with DS shouldn't be aborted and crucify people who abort their kids for having DS. Individuals who know how much having a kid with DS costs. Not everyone can handle that and it should be a CHOICE for them. A mom with two kids she adopted with DS made a really awesome post about DS and abortion and it was the most eye opening thing to me- (http://pudgeandzippy.blogspot.com/2011/ ... chest.html). I emailed her about and she went on to tell that kids with DS who end up in teh foster care system- ahuge chunk don't end up getting adopted when they get older because people with DS are only cute when they are little and when their attitude and personalities start to show parents/people don't want to deal with it.

I hate how people try to control others lives that like that. Everyone has the option of having a choice. This woman's daughter should have a had a choice and not had it forced upon her to not be able to take the plan b pill.

Thank you for posting that blog! First, because that particular post was great, and second, because I'm really enjoying reading about this family. After all the fundie blogs we discuss here, it's lovely to see a family that truly values their children as individuals and makes sure that they get all the care and education that they need. Plus, those kids are adorable!