Bragging about being an advocate of forced birth

[RR88]

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2 ... -internet/

As Clint Eastwood said in "Gran Torino", holy hell.

I will never understand why some people believe that a zygote has more rights than an already-here person does. Because believing that rape victims should be forced to give birth classifies them as mere vessels, less important than the lives they carry.

[Maul the Koala]

A woman posted a picture of her nephew on one of the Facebook pro-life pages saying he was conceived due to a rape. His mother didn't abort so other rape victims shouldn't either. First off holy hell making a poor child the face of your cause. Hope that he doesn't get pissed off that his conception was broadcasted from the rooftops. Second, just because you make a choice it was right for you at the time. If I got raped and managed to get pregnant I would abort. My health is precarious enough as it is, I'm not fucking it up because you say so.

I'm just floored she thinks her child who has the mental capacity of an 8-10 year old is fit enough to go through pregnancy. With bipolar disorder no less. The hormonal changes of pregnancy can mess up the most stable of people with bipolar disorder. That's not even negligent, that is downright abusive.

http://www.kissingtheleper.com/2012/04/bullying.html

There's her blog post on the subject of 'being attacked'.

[RR88]

The amazing thing is that forced-birth advocates believe their viewpoints on reproduction should be legislated, even though said viewpoints result from religion…but at the same time, religious opinions that don't toe the typical "pro-life line" are rendered irrelevant.

[Childless]

If I got raped and it ended in pregnancy, I would abort. Sorry, but I shouldn't be forced into 9 months of hell after being victimized. I would loathe the child and would associate it with violence no matter how much I tried not to. And that has to affect a child, even when it's in-utero.

Forced birth is basically a way of saying that women don't matter and are nothing more than incubators. It's a way of saying that women aren't people and aren't worth anything. Because I know for a fact, if men were the ones that had babies, abortion would not only be legal, but also free. No man would ever be forced to carry a pregnancy he didn't want or a pregnancy that forced up on him through no fault of his own. It's easy to say "Well, that baby deserves to live, so you have to continue the pregnancy." when you aren't the one that has to suffer and you aren't the one that was violently attacked. It's easy to say that when you know you will never, ever be in that situation.

[mypsychoticself]

If I got pregnant from rape I don't think I would abort, because abortion would not be the right choice for me. What anti-abortion people don't seem to understand is that women, like all human beings, are different. Just because the decision not to abort is right for one woman doesn't mean it's right for all women.

[ElphabaGalinda]

The amazing thing is that forced-birth advocates believe their viewpoints on reproduction should be legislated, even though said viewpoints result from religion…but at the same time, religious opinions that don't toe the typical "pro-life line" are rendered irrelevant.

Another amazing thing is that they 're the only ones who want their view point on abortion legislated. Pro-choice is about CHOICE, and I wish forced birth advocates realize that they're choices wouldn't be taken away they can have all the babies they want, so they have no right to take away the choices of others.

[ElphabaGalinda]

A woman posted a picture of her nephew on one of the Facebook pro-life pages saying he was conceived due to a rape. His mother didn't abort so other rape victims shouldn't either. First off holy hell making a poor child the face of your cause. Hope that he doesn't get pissed off that his conception was broadcasted from the rooftops. Second, just because you make a choice it was right for you at the time. If I got raped and managed to get pregnant I would abort. My health is precarious enough as it is, I'm not fucking it up because you say so.

I'm just floored she thinks her child who has the mental capacity of an 8-10 year old is fit enough to go through pregnancy. With bipolar disorder no less. The hormonal changes of pregnancy can mess up the most stable of people with bipolar disorder. That's not even negligent, that is downright abusive.

http://www.kissingtheleper.com/2012/04/bullying.html

There's her blog post on the subject of 'being attacked'.

I feel bad for that woman's nephew, being used as a prop like that. If his mother had chosen to abort him, he wouldn't exist and therefore he wouldn't know the difference. People like that think zygotes are more important than actual people who've already been born, so with this "save the zygote" mentality in mind, i'm not surprised that she'd think anyone should go through with any pregnancy

[fundiefan]

So, the girl didn't get to make her own choices about how to move on from a horrendous situation. No one included her in the decisions about her life. Even an 8-10 year old can understand ramifications, knows about babies, knows basics enough to decide what to do.

Instead, her mother forces her to have a child, if pregnancy is the result. Forces her to possibly live a life with a pregnancy and child, with the cognitive abilities of a ten year old.

I feel sick.

The force is so fucking twisted I can't even really comprehend it.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm quite new here - ok, very new - and have never heard people use the term forced birth for not being allowed to have abortion before, but I think i'm going to use that term in the future. :) Because that's exactly what it is, FORCED birth.

[valsa]

Two months ago, Dark-Haired Daughter was repeatedly sexually assaulted. We made the decision not to give her Plan B - our "choice" for all those pro-choicers reading this

Really, lady? It's not "our choice" when your daughter is the one who's been sexually assaulted and may be pregnant. It's "her choice". And the funniest thing? Your original post didn't even mention her opinion on the matter, which means you made it "your choice". And that's not what choice means.

[dairyfreelife]

Really, lady? It's not "our choice" when your daughter is the one who's been sexually assaulted and may be pregnant. It's "her choice". And the funniest thing? Your original post didn't even mention her opinion on the matter, which means you made it "your choice". And that's not what choice means.

Agreed. If she decided to keep the baby, then fine. Sometimes people do. However, it was never her choice. It was their choice. Anyone who forces their mentally disabled child to go through a pregnancy resulting from rape without her opinion is just cruel. Her feelings are never considered. A person with the mind of an 8-10 yo does have feelings. The thing about forced-birthers and anti-choicers is that the woman's feelings never matter. It's all about them. They are selfish and want what they want and don't care about anyone else. They don't care about women at all. They are not pro-life. They are pro-zygote/fetus. Some of them aren't even pro that. They just want to think they did a good deed somehow by "saving a potential life".

[MonkeyMomma]

I haven't finished reading the post yet, but this just popped out at me:

The nurse told me the antibiotics she’d administered, that we’d need to wait some time for HIV testing, and then handed me a box – Plan B, and told me we had 24 hours to use it.

So there it was. The whole moral conundrum of abortion in a little green box in my hand.

There's no "moral conundrum of abortion" here lady. Plan B isn't abortion.

It's this faux morality and persistent ignorance that really gets me. See, if it was really about her daughter's well-being and avoiding abortion, there would have been no moral conundrum. Plan B prevents pregnancy - it doesn't end them. But, so she can feel morally smug, she sentenced her daughter to a totally preventable pregnancy.

No moral high ground there, lady.

[MonkeyMomma]

And now I just finished reading it. Disgusting. That woman is a sad excuse for a mother, and has more respect for a potential zygote than her own living, breathing child who was raped.

And not one word about what her daughter thought, felt, or wanted. Regardless of her cognitive abilities, as a human being, isn't that the least she deserves? But no, just like Palin and Santorum, a disabled child is not a human being deserving of dignity, but merely a convenient political prop to hold up one's cred as the most pro-"life." :evil:

[DarkAnts]

If I got raped and it ended in pregnancy, I would abort. Sorry, but I shouldn't be forced into 9 months of hell after being victimized. I would loathe the child and would associate it with violence no matter how much I tried not to. And that has to affect a child, even when it's in-utero.

Forced birth is basically a way of saying that women don't matter and are nothing more than incubators. It's a way of saying that women aren't people and aren't worth anything. Because I know for a fact, if men were the ones that had babies, abortion would not only be legal, but also free. No man would ever be forced to carry a pregnancy he didn't want or a pregnancy that forced up on him through no fault of his own. It's easy to say "Well, that baby deserves to live, so you have to continue the pregnancy." when you aren't the one that has to suffer and you aren't the one that was violently attacked. It's easy to say that when you know you will never, ever be in that situation.

The sad thing about all of this is that these people blame the women for being raped. Obviously the girl must have been acting/dressed in a way that defrauded the man. The man according to them is weak and can not control his actions. So, the man had no choice but to rape the girl after she defrauded him. Since the women "deserved" to be raped, she also deserves to carry the baby to full term. I think some of them see this as part of gods punishment for victim.

These people make me sick. If men were truly that weak then we should lock them all up and bring them out for when it is time to breed.

[Guest Anonymous]

The thing about people blaming the woman for being raped, is that it kind of makes the assumption that men have no self-control, can't stop themselves from raping the girl. This reminds me of the fact that the Duggar boys, including Jim Bob, aren't allowed to use the internet without supervision, and they have no internet on their phone, whereas the girls do. They're assuming that once the boys are on the internet, they won't be able to stop themselves from looking at inappropriate sites, when clearly they could!

[AudreyE]

This is so incredibly cruel to the mother and to the baby.

[emmiedahl]

She made this decision without discussing it with the victim, which is incredibly significant.

The commenting people on the linked article did some research. A few interesting things they dug up:

1) The girl is not functioning on the level of an 8-10 year old as her mother reports. She has some sort of learning disability so she tests at a grammar school level of skill. That does not mean she cannot make these personal decisions, just that she has problems with reading and arithmetic.

2) The mother has a long and sordid history with her daughter and had her daughter thrown in jail for assault a few years ago. I wonder if there is family violence, including perhaps sexual assault. However, bipolar teens can be violent even in the best of families; I have a bipolar brother so I went through this personally.

3) Thankfully, from her Facebook, the girl does not appear to be pregnant. If she is bipolar, she is probably taking medication that poses a risk to the fetus. And I am sure her anti-choice bitch of a mother would take her off the medication that saves her life, because after all, it is all about the BAYBEE and not about her daughter's health.

[RR88]

And now I just finished reading it. Disgusting. That woman is a sad excuse for a mother, and has more respect for a potential zygote than her own living, breathing child who was raped.

And not one word about what her daughter thought, felt, or wanted. Regardless of her cognitive abilities, as a human being, isn't that the least she deserves? But no, just like Palin and Santorum, a disabled child is not a human being deserving of dignity, but merely a convenient political prop to hold up one's cred as the most pro-"life." :evil:

Yup. That's what it boils down to for me, and it's one of the (many) things that caused me to realize I was not a conservative but actually a libertarian.

The problem with the pro-life movement is that in its zeal to recognize zygotes and fetuses, it ignores grown women and girls. We always hear, when discussing rape with pro-lifers, that "a child shouldn't be killed for its father's sins." What they're almost never willing to consider is the fact that a rape victim (unlike the "sluts" these zealots like to shame) never consented to sex and thus never consented to pregnancy. A woman may well consider the carrying and birthing of a product of rape to be its own form of bodily invasion/violation. Who are we to prevent her from deciding what will happen to her body, mind, and soul after she has been sexually assaulted?

Of course, the forced-birth proponents feel that a "rape exception" makes it seem like some offspring are worthy of death while others are not. And they're correct that such exceptions look hypocritical! This is why I support someone's right to terminate no matter the reason. To believe otherwise is to believe that women are the property of the state, something any serious champion of liberty should disagree with.

[valsa]

What they're almost never willing to consider is the fact that a rape victim (unlike the "sluts" these zealots like to shame) never consented to sex and thus never consented to pregnancy.

Also, even if a woman does consent to sex, that doesn't mean she consented to pregnancy.

The next time I hear a fundie say "She knew what could happen if she had sex!", I'm going to T-bone them with my car and refuse to pay for repairs because "you knew what could happen if you were driving!"

[RR88]

Also, even if a woman does consent to sex, that doesn't mean she consented to pregnancy.

The next time I hear a fundie say "She knew what could happen if she had sex!", I'm going to T-bone them with my car and refuse to pay for repairs because "you knew what could happen if you were driving!"

That's correct. I'm simply pointing out their own foolishness in claiming that all women, somehow, should be forced to give birth. Their claim that "sex causes babies, so don't sleep around" is specious because it presumes consent for every sex act that has ever produced offspring. Again, though, you are correct that sex - including consensual sex - is not consent to pregnancy. The only thing that presumes consent to pregnancy *is* just that, consent to pregnancy. That's why I believe abortion should be legal no matter the situation. :)

[RR88]

Some of the comments here are nauseating, gushing about how "brave" Elise Hilton was. It's so nice to know, too, that a website supposedly devoted to bioethical issues has an entire section about homosexuality. :roll: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/why-i- ... was-raped/

[Kishiria]

I posted about this woman a few weeks ago. I was white-hot with rage. That fucking bitch...she did NOT have the right to withhold even the knowledge of the Plan B. from her daughter.

[dairyfreelife]

Some of the comments here are nauseating, gushing about how "brave" Elise Hilton was. It's so nice to know, too, that a website supposedly devoted to bioethical issues has an entire section about homosexuality. :roll: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/why-i- ... was-raped/

As much as I would prefer to know what's happening with my minor child should I ever children, this is why minors should get to make decisions about their own health. Bipolar or not, she can make her own decisions about her body. If she wanted Plan B, they should be able to give it to her without her parents consent. The lady is clueless about how Plan B works. I can't believe the people on there and in politics too who actually think life starts at conception. It can't do anything to begin with and doesn't even have a heartbeat. They also ignore the fact that a number of women have a fertilized egg, but it never implants naturally. They have a regular cycle and never know the difference.

I hate hearing the phrase "Why punish the child for the sins of the father?" I also come back with "Why punish a woman for the sins of another man?" I seriously want an answer for that.

[RR88]

As much as I would prefer to know what's happening with my minor child should I ever children, this is why minors should get to make decisions about their own health. Bipolar or not, she can make her own decisions about her body. If she wanted Plan B, they should be able to give it to her without her parents consent. The lady is clueless about how Plan B works. I can't believe the people on there and in politics too who actually think life starts at conception. It can't do anything to begin with and doesn't even have a heartbeat. They also ignore the fact that a number of women have a fertilized egg, but it never implants naturally. They have a regular cycle and never know the difference.

I hate hearing the phrase "Why punish the child for the sins of the father?" I also come back with "Why punish a woman for the sins of another man?" I seriously want an answer for that.

Don't you get it? A forced pregnancy isn't a punishment. It's a gift from God himself!

[RR88]

Here's what I was talking about when I said that religious forced-birth advocates think that only their particular religious convictions come into play. Other religious viewpoints that allow contraception or abortion are simply dismissed as not truly religious: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/jewish ... -perverse/