Nebraska Woman Denied Abortion Even as Uterus Crushed Fetus

[Peas n carrots]

I still don't get how a human being who has been on earth for, let's say at least 10+ years and has contributed to society is < a potential life. Not everyone wants to be a f'ing martyr...lots of people have very good reasons to have abortions.

[margiebargie]

I got induced for severe oligahydraminos and pre-e, which frequently go together. But instead of, you know, actually inducing me right away in the Catholic hospital (which I now regret choosing), they decided waiting over a week for me to hit 37 weeks was the right thing to do. They put my life in danger several times because they believed it would be better for the baby. (ETA: one of these times was refusing to give me additional BP medication when I got very, very close to eclampsia, with a bp of 190/120 with medication. Because the baby was doing fine on the monitor, it wasn't an issue.)

I hate every month that I write a check to them to pay that stupid bill off, thinking about the kinds of games they played with my health. They don't give two shits about pregnant women.

Awful. Perhaps you could write a message in the memo line. Something like "paid under protest for substandard care".

[marmalade]

Your daughter is too young to vote, but is planning to become a parent as early as next year? Wow. Maybe you should encourage her to take advantage of birth control for a few years while it's still, you know, legal.

I know, this struck me too. She's engaged at 17? I know it happens, but very few people are with the boy/girlfriend they had during their senior year of high school. I lived with my HS sweetheart (although technically he wasn't since we went to different schools) from the summer after he graduated (he is a year younger) until I was 23. We mutually decided that although we had our friends and had plenty of fun on the weekends, we weren't grown up enough to settle down with each other. 30 years later, we remain good friends, he has two beautiful teenage boys and it all worked out for the best. We sure weren't ready for kids when we were together: we decided to have an abortion during our time together. So there you go. 19 was just too young to have a kid, let alone a stable of them, although we were both responsible and had full-time jobs from the day we graduated high school.

I never had kids, although I had two miscarriages (late 1st trimester) with my one and only husband (didn't "settle down" until I was 31). All of it was for the best; I never could have gone back to school if things had worked out differently.

[Mama Mia]

Wow, so at 18 everyone is an adult and should be independent and out of their parents control and making their own choices etc etc etc ... unless that choice is to get married or have children ? Hypocritical much ?

[mirele]

Danielle Deaver wrote a letter to Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona this week. You can read it here.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valley ... ewer_1.php

[Minerva]

If some lawmakers can impose 24 waiting periods and mandatory ultrasounds on women seeking abortion, I propose that we have something similar for those opposed to legal abortion.

Prior to voting on any abortion-related law or implementing any abortion-related policy, there would be a 24 hour waiting period. Prior to this waiting period, the person would be required to watch graphic video footage of exactly what fetuses and babies may need to go through in cases where appropriate care is denied, and would also be required to watch graphic footage of what could happen to pregnant women who are in danger of bleeding to death or developing massive infections from premature rupture of membranes. In additions to being forced to watch the footage, they would be required to hear a detailed explanation of what was happening from a doctor, and to listen to the anguished sobs of family members of women who died.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[NurseNell]

Yeah, that. My cousin posted a bit of pro-life propaganda on FB last week; it was a picture of a fetus, supposedly showing burns from a saline abortion:

It was also filled with lies about how abortion is legal in all nine months, and claimed that the fetus in question was 4.5 months old when clearly age =/= gestational development. It also claimed the abortion was performed at around 20 weeks, but the fetus looks much larger and more developed than many living micropremies that I've seen pictures of. An abortion performed past the 20 week mark doesn't just happen because the slutty woman gets tired of posting.php?mode=quote&f=8&p=252677#being pregnant; there's something wrong there. I feel tons of sympathy for a woman who discovers that her wanted fetus has a condition incompatible with life. It's so irritating that so-called pro-life people can't think beyond "OMG you are MURDERING your baybeeeeee!!1!1!!"

I've seen a baby delivered after a saline abortion, it looked nothing like the baby in the spoiler. The skin sloughs off. And the entire body was involved. Why does the baby in the photo have an unburned head. And yes, that baby is older than 4.5 months gestation.

[NurseNell]

I know, this struck me too. She's engaged at 17? I know it happens, but very few people are with the boy/girlfriend they had during their senior year of high school. I lived with my HS sweetheart (although technically he wasn't since we went to different schools) from the summer after he graduated (he is a year younger) until I was 23. We mutually decided that although we had our friends and had plenty of fun on the weekends, we weren't grown up enough to settle down with each other. 30 years later, we remain good friends, he has two beautiful teenage boys and it all worked out for the best. We sure weren't ready for kids when we were together: we decided to have an abortion during our time together. So there you go. 19 was just too young to have a kid, let alone a stable of them, although we were both responsible and had full-time jobs from the day we graduated high school.

I never had kids, although I had two miscarriages (late 1st trimester) with my one and only husband (didn't "settle down" until I was 31). All of it was for the best; I never could have gone back to school if things had worked out differently.

I had a high school classmate who got his 15 y.o. girlfriend pregnant when he was 17. This was in 1961. They just recently had their 50th wedding anniversary. In my small class of about 50 kids about 5 married their high school sweethearts. The only one still not married is widowed. Her husband died of colon cancer a few years ago. Now she is dating another classmate, who also married young, whose wife died a few years ago. Marrying high school sweethearts can work out.

I married at 25, no live ins or sex prior to that, first child at 32. Divorced after 18 years of marriage. Do you never know.

[Spider Burps]

Wow, so at 18 everyone is an adult and should be independent and out of their parents control and making their own choices etc etc etc ... unless that choice is to get married or have children ? Hypocritical much ?

Uh, no, that's not the case. As an 18 year old, you can vote, but you can't buy cigarettes in some states and you can't drink; You also can't sign for a student loan without your parents' co-signature. Know why? Because your brain is still all soft and squishy and forming and you're still prone to making irrational decisions without considering the long-term consequences. You think you know everything because, damn it, the world says you're an adult and you develop the, "Whatever, whatever, I do what I want! You don't own me!" mentality. I know that at 18 I was not in the least ready for marriage and children and everyone I know that's had kids that young has only had horrible financial struggles. At 18, what kind of job does she have? What kind of job does HE have (you know, the one who will have to support the whole family during the bit of time when mom can't work--and probably afterwards, when she gets fired for not being able to work because she's working the job she got straight after high school)?

I decided at FIFTEEN who I was going to marry and we're finally tying the knot this month--right before my 24th birthday. We knew we wanted to get married then, we've also known it the entire time we were dating, but we also knew that our brains were still developing and we could yet grow apart, so what did we do? We did the responsible thing and waited until my fiance was done with college and grad school and had a salaried job with good benefits. Why get married when you know you're going to end up poor and miserable and working at WalMart like Emily and Dna? I've heard over and over again that money is the number one things couples fight about; Just because there is no money to be seen doesn't mean the fighting won't happen.

[BelieveinScience]

Uh, no, that's not the case. As an 18 year old, you can vote, but you can't buy cigarettes in some states and you can't drink; You also can't sign for a student loan without your parents' co-signature. Know why? Because your brain is still all soft and squishy and forming and you're still prone to making irrational decisions without considering the long-term consequences. You think you know everything because, damn it, the world says you're an adult and you develop the, "Whatever, whatever, I do what I want! You don't own me!" mentality. I know that at 18 I was not in the least ready for marriage and children and everyone I know that's had kids that young has only had horrible financial struggles. At 18, what kind of job does she have? What kind of job does HE have (you know, the one who will have to support the whole family during the bit of time when mom can't work--and probably afterwards, when she gets fired for not being able to work because she's working the job she got straight after high school)?

I decided at FIFTEEN who I was going to marry and we're finally tying the knot this month--right before my 24th birthday. We knew we wanted to get married then, we've also known it the entire time we were dating, but we also knew that our brains were still developing and we could yet grow apart, so what did we do? We did the responsible thing and waited until my fiance was done with college and grad school and had a salaried job with good benefits. Why get married when you know you're going to end up poor and miserable and working at WalMart like Emily and Dna? I've heard over and over again that money is the number one things couples fight about; Just because there is no money to be seen doesn't mean the fighting won't happen.

YOU weren't ready for marriage and a kid at 18 some 18 year olds are. Some 18 year olds are mature enough to handle the responsibility of marriage and a kid. Just like there are some 30/40 /50 years old who aren't mature enough or responsible enough for kids. It depends on the person. I know I wasn't a ready for marriage/kids at 18 but that's not everyone. My friend planned her first kid at 18 right after she and her hubs got married. She now is pregnant with her 4th child. Are they poor or stuck working at Walmart? NOPE! They live in a really nice house and her husband has a really nice job. Just because you have a kid at 18 doesn't mean you're going to be poor. And you don't have to go to college to make decent money.

Our brains don't stop developing until around the age of 25 so should all critical decisions like marriage, joining the military, owning a home, having children wait until after someone is 25?

[Spider Burps]

YOU weren't ready for marriage and a kid at 18 some 18 year olds are. Some 18 year olds are mature enough to handle the responsibility of marriage and a kid. Just like there are some 30/40 /50 years old who aren't mature enough or responsible enough for kids. It depends on the person. I know I wasn't a ready for marriage/kids at 18 but that's not everyone. My friend planned her first kid at 18 right after she and her hubs got married. She now is pregnant with her 4th child. Are they poor or stuck working at Walmart? NOPE! They live in a really nice house and her husband has a really nice job. Just because you have a kid at 18 doesn't mean you're going to be poor. And you don't have to go to college to make decent money.

Our brains don't stop developing until around the age of 25 so should all critical decisions like marriage, joining the military, owning a home, having children wait until after someone is 25?

First, I would've done just fine being married at 18; We're still together, aren't we? It wasn't about immaturity, it was about being rational. We've lived together the entire time, but we weren't able to pay for our wedding and didn't want to take such a serious decision lightly and end up divorced (according to the CDC, 40% of those married at age 18-19 are divorced within 10 years, compared 29% of those 20-24 and 24% of those who are over 25) I'm just saying that many individuals ARE NOT READY and they do, often, grow apart as their brains finish developing. I'm glad your friends are speshul snowflakes, but a majority of people CANNOT get good jobs without a college education. Usually the ones that make do without are either incredibly smart or incredibly privileged/lucky. Maybe where ever you live is different, but a large number of the people that live in my area that didn't go to college are on food stamps and receive government assistance.

And, yes, I think we should have to wait til 25 to make big decisions, but that's not practical in the world in which we live. When I was 16, I felt I was too young to be driving a car, and felt the same about my peers. I think 18 year olds are too young to be in the military. I don't think those under 25 should own a house. I don't think people under 25 should be able to get student loans on their own; Hell, I don't think we should be allowed credit cards! I don't believe people should be allowed to have kids within a year of marriage, but that's a whole other can of worms. There's a reason insurance rates sharply drop at 25... People stop being as stupid. Before you attack me, I know I sound like a dictator. I would love a highly regulated world that doesn't allow us to buy houses we can't afford, take out loans we can't repay, have kids while we're still kids, etc.

ETA: Don't we snark on similar "child brides" on FJ on a regular basis? How come it's good for your friend and for the original poster I replied to, but not for the fundies? Pot, kettle.

ETA again: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad323.pdf That's my source RE: statistics. Didn't want to get accused of anything beyond fascism.

[Austin]

ETA: Don't we snark on similar "child brides" on FJ on a regular basis? How come it's good for your friend and for the original poster I replied to, but not for the fundies? Pot, kettle.

There are some pretty stark differences, that's why. I married young, but spent four years in college and another four working in my field before we had children. Also, getting married and who I married was my choice, not my parents' choice. We will be (happily) married for 30 years in June, I have accomplishments and resources of my own, I make my own decisions, and could support my household and way of life by myself starting immediately if I had to. Fundie women generally have none of these things.

[Spider Burps]

There are some pretty stark differences, that's why. I married young, but spent four years in college and another four working in my field before we had children. Also, getting married and who I married was my choice, not my parents' choice. We will be (happily) married for 30 years in June, I have accomplishments and resources of my own, I make my own decisions, and could support my household and way of life by myself starting immediately if I had to. Fundie women generally have none of these things.

Well, yeah, obviously your circumstance sounds like it was different; I tried very hard not to make generalizations, because there are always exceptions, so I'm sorry if I did. She's talking about her friends who got married and decided to have kids without going to college (and, from what it sounds like, the wife has never worked)! You did it the rational way and you were able to see what the real world is like, rather than going from high school to babies.

BelieveInScience was saying (am paraphrasing, obviously) that everything will be just fine if you get married and pop out kid after kid without further educating yourself, because there are plenty of jobs out there that don't require a college degree. That's what irked me. Well, that and the fact that I really do believe that most individuals under 25 are, frankly, stupid (myself included sometimes and I'm on the tail end of that 18-25 age group). I'm cool with people getting married young because I can't exactly stop it, but I'd prefer to see it done similarly to the way it's done in young teen marriages (required parental permission, perhaps, though that seems too extreme and wouldn't say that's my ideal solution) and I'd like there to be required counseling of some sort (maybe even for all marriages). So, so many people aren't fully aware of what they want of their future when they're teenagers and are just OMG in lurve (or want to escape their parents, or want the security of marriage, etc.).

edited for riffles

[BelieveinScience]

Well, yeah, obviously your circumstance sounds like it was different; I tried very hard not to make generalizations, because there are always exceptions, so I'm sorry if I did. She's talking about her friends who got married and decided to have kids without going to college (and, from what it sounds like, the wife has never worked)! You did it the rational way and you were able to see what the real world is like, rather than going from high school to babies.

BelieveInScience was saying (am paraphrasing, obviously) that everything will be just fine if you get married and pop out kid after kid without further educating yourself, because there are plenty of jobs out there that don't require a college degree. That's what irked me. Well, that and the fact that I really do believe that most individuals under 25 are, frankly, stupid (myself included sometimes and I'm on the tail end of that 18-25 age group). I'm cool with people getting married young because I can't exactly stop it, but I'd prefer to see it done similarly to the way it's done in young teen marriages (required parental permission, perhaps, though that seems too extreme and wouldn't say that's my ideal solution) and I'd like there to be required counseling of some sort (maybe even for all marriages). So, so many people aren't fully aware of what they want of their future when they're teenagers and are just OMG in lurve (or want to escape their parents, or want the security of marriage, etc.).

edited for riffles

Umm the point I was making was 18 year olds CAN be responsible and raise families and do okay financially because you made it sound like 18 year olds were too stupid and immature to raise families which just isn't true. Like I said not all 18 years are ready to be parents but some are and I don't see the issue with it. I also stand by my statement that you don't have to go to college to make decent money because it's true. There are a lot of ways to make money and college isn't the right choice for everyone.

I fail to see how I was remotely saying that everything will be fine and dandy for people to pop out kid after kid because I don't believe that at all. But I do believe there are fiscally responsible young adults that can handle raising a family.

[Spider Burps]

Umm the point I was making was 18 year olds CAN be responsible and raise families and do okay financially because you made it sound like 18 year olds were too stupid and immature to raise families which just isn't true. Like I said not all 18 years are ready to be parents but some are and I don't see the issue with it. I also stand by my statement that you don't have to go to college to make decent money because it's true. There are a lot of ways to make money and college isn't the right choice for everyone.

I fail to see how I was remotely saying that everything will be fine and dandy for people to pop out kid after kid because I don't believe that at all. But I do believe there are fiscally responsible young adults that can handle raising a family.

Well, you countered my experience with teen marrieds/parents with your ONE friend who you say does just fine and lives in an awesome house, which makes it sound like you're saying everyone will do just fine because someone did (while ignoring the dozen people I know who are struggling BADLY due to making the same choices). It's like saying, "Oh, you can win the lottery because my friend did!" Anecdotal evidence, you know? Also, all you said was that they didn't work at WalMart (though you didn't say if they were one of the lucky few that get handed a job by a family member/friend), and that they live in a nice house--and you can be broke as fuck in many places and still have a supernice house.

edited for yet more riffles

[BelieveinScience]

Well, you countered my experience with teen marrieds/parents with your ONE friend who you say does just fine and lives in an awesome house, which makes it sound like you're saying everyone will do just fine because someone did (while ignoring the dozen people I know who are struggling BADLY due to making the same choices). It's like saying, "Oh, you can win the lottery because my friend did!" Anecdotal evidence, you know? Also, all you said was that they didn't work at WalMart (though you didn't say if they were one of the lucky few that get handed a job by a family member/friend), and that they live in a nice house. For all I know, he could work as a McDonalds manager. Not the type of job you want your kid to aim for--and you can be broke as fuck in many places and still have a supernice house. That's not THE indicator of how well they're doing, it's just AN indicator.

Yes, I used just one example, so? There are a ton of young adult families that do just as well. I stand by my statements that 18 year olds can be mature and raise families just fine. OBVIOUSLY NOT ALL ARE MATURE ENOUGH TO DO SO BUT SOME ARE. I hardly think all young adults should go around popping out kids, seriously.

Her husband owns his own business that he started on his own without any help from family.

You know a lot of people who graduate from college end up being managers of various stores, right?

[Spider Burps]

Yes, I used just one example, so? There are a ton of young adult families that do just as well. I stand by my statements that 18 year olds can be mature and raise families just fine. OBVIOUSLY NOT ALL ARE MATURE ENOUGH TO DO SO BUT SOME ARE. I hardly think all young adults should go around popping out kids, seriously.

Her husband owns his own business that he started on his own without any help from family.

You know a lot of people who graduate from college end up being managers of various stores, right?

You quoted before I reconsidered what I said and edited. :-P

I wasn't saying that all 18 year olds are too immature for families, I just believe that 99% are. I still believe that 18 years old should not be the age of majority for this very reason. I don't think that I said "all" 18 year olds aren't emotionally ready (though I'm pretty sure that I said everyone -I- know has had a ton of problems), though, as I said to Austin, I apologize if I did. You defended this other woman's kid getting married without knowing her story. Sure, your friends may be doing fine, but how do you know if her daughter will?

Also, sorry, but are your friends fundies? Married at 18, four kids (I assume they aren't grown), self-employed. Just made me wonder, not trying to be offensive!

[BelieveinScience]

You quoted before I reconsidered what I said and edited. :-P

I wasn't saying that all 18 year olds are too immature for families, I just believe that 99% are. I still believe that 18 years old should not be the age of majority for this very reason. I don't think that I said "all" 18 year olds aren't emotionally ready (though I'm pretty sure that I said everyone -I- know has had a ton of problems), though, as I said to Austin, I apologize if I did. You defended this other woman's kid getting married without knowing her story. Sure, your friends may be doing fine, but how do you know if her daughter will?

Also, sorry, but are your friends fundies? Married at 18, four kids (I assume they aren't grown), self-employed. Just made me wonder, not trying to be offensive!

I just don't think its appropriate to jump on someone and say they need BC instead of trying fora kid at 18 (I don't know if thats you who said it or not) because we don't her situation. I don't like the idea of throwing away peoples wants without knowing their situation.

And nope my friend isnt fundie at all. They're pagan and I don't think a fundie man would be tough enough to do what her husband does :) The only fundies I know are some people I went to high school with who grew up in a fundie household.

[27randomscribbles]

There are some pretty stark differences, that's why. I married young, but spent four years in college and another four working in my field before we had children. Also, getting married and who I married was my choice, not my parents' choice. We will be (happily) married for 30 years in June, I have accomplishments and resources of my own, I make my own decisions, and could support my household and way of life by myself starting immediately if I had to. Fundie women generally have none of these things.

Yeah, in my opinion there is a huge difference between getting married and getting married and immediately having children. I married at 19, and while I agree it wasn't rational by any means, I was one of the lucky ones--getting married actually gave me the independence to leave my parents' religion and become my own person, including becoming a feminist and more open minded. My husband and I worked and got our BA's...we graduated the same week and now I'm in graduate school (we moved across the country for my grad education).

So yeah. Obviously I got very, very lucky. I didn't marry someone who was sexist or would have issues with me going to school, having a job, and even having more education than him...he was the exception to most guys I grew up with.

And I hope I'm finally getting to my point...while we got married at 19, we didn't have kids. We still don't, almost 6 years later, and I won't until I'm ready...which will be awhile. I'm not always very responsible, I can do stupid stuff, I can be immature at times, but I AM responsible to know that while I can handle a relationship, I can't handle that plus kids right now. So I won't.

In my hometown, Facebook tells me most of my classmates got married and pregnant right after highschool. Most never left the tiny town and many are now divorced already. While it's obviously only anecdotal, I do feel that a main difference was the having kids and getting an education. I think the high probability of young marriages failing is the percentage who marry because of a pregnancy, etc.

Rambling over.

[mirele]

My mom was 19 and my dad 25 when they got married, three months after they met. (They met on Memorial Day and got married the Saturday before Labor Day.) They have been married 52 years. I wouldn't say it's been the easiest marriage, but I think one thing that helped was that they came from the same background: lower class families with roots in Oklahoma (even though they met in California). I think having the same background and general expectations can help marital longevity.

[Spider Burps]

Yeah, in my opinion there is a huge difference between getting married and getting married and immediately having children. I married at 19, and while I agree it wasn't rational by any means, I was one of the lucky ones--getting married actually gave me the independence to leave my parents' religion and become my own person, including becoming a feminist and more open minded. My husband and I worked and got our BA's...we graduated the same week and now I'm in graduate school (we moved across the country for my grad education).

So yeah. Obviously I got very, very lucky. I didn't marry someone who was sexist or would have issues with me going to school, having a job, and even having more education than him...he was the exception to most guys I grew up with.

And I hope I'm finally getting to my point...while we got married at 19, we didn't have kids. We still don't, almost 6 years later, and I won't until I'm ready...which will be awhile. I'm not always very responsible, I can do stupid stuff, I can be immature at times, but I AM responsible to know that while I can handle a relationship, I can't handle that plus kids right now. So I won't.

In my hometown, Facebook tells me most of my classmates got married and pregnant right after highschool. Most never left the tiny town and many are now divorced already. While it's obviously only anecdotal, I do feel that a main difference was the having kids and getting an education. I think the high probability of young marriages failing is the percentage who marry because of a pregnancy, etc.

Rambling over.

I agree. You just said it better than I did because I was busy derping at everyone. I initially wasn't saying that there was an issue with getting married young, but since so many people who marry young then have kids immediately after, I kind of jumped on them as a combined evil. It's the super young people having kids with no real long-term means of support that's my biggest issue. Kudos to you for a) getting away from your crappy past, b) finding a partner that treats you as, well, a partner, and c) for realizing that it's wise to get to know one another as a couple and to allow your life and mind to stabilize before having children. I admire your thoughtfulness. :)

[snarkykitty]

Odd, this story actually appeared in the news in March 2010.

[Austin]

Yeah, in my opinion there is a huge difference between getting married and getting married and immediately having children. I married at 19, and while I agree it wasn't rational by any means, I was one of the lucky ones--getting married actually gave me the independence to leave my parents' religion and become my own person, including becoming a feminist and more open minded. My husband and I worked and got our BA's...we graduated the same week and now I'm in graduate school (we moved across the country for my grad education).

I agree that for me, it was a fabulous thing to have all the time I did between marriage and starting our family, and generally I think that in most marriages, people do better with some time to adjust to each other before bringing children into it. That said, I know plenty of marriages that were more . . . shotgun. . . in nature, and worked out just fine. :D Statistically, the combination of young marriage and quick childbearing is not a good mix, but there are always exceptions.

[27randomscribbles]

I agree that for me, it was a fabulous thing to have all the time I did between marriage and starting our family, and generally I think that in most marriages, people do better with some time to adjust to each other before bringing children into it. That said, I know plenty of marriages that were more . . . shotgun. . . in nature, and worked out just fine. :D Statistically, the combination of young marriage and quick childbearing is not a good mix, but there are always exceptions.

There are definitely exceptions, anything can happen and honestly, I wish the best for anyone whether or not they make different decisions than I would...that's part of being pro-choice and feminist. Who am I to say that if I had had kids things wouldn't be fine and dandy? But that doesn't really matter in my case because I have no issues with abortion so I won't just "end up" with a kid.

Speaking of...I'm really, really tired of people who respond to my not wanting kids until I'm ready with "well things happen!" or "you can't control these things". (this happens all the time...apparently my childbearing is everyone's business just because I'm married?) WTF? And I don't ever know what to say because they are usually family friends and I can't just say "yeah well I'd have an abortion, so I actually do have some control" because I'm not "out" to my family as being pro-choice (believe me, I have good reason).