If a college degree is so bad, then why are you using yours?

[Koala]

Interesting question huh?

I know I have told you guys that I know a lot of fundies. What I haven't mentioned is that I am related to some by marriage. These family members aren't doing the poor fundie routine either. Nope, they live in a nice house, have nice cars, and a comfortable "nest egg" I'm sure. Both parents have college degrees. Mom stays home but used her degree to work in her field before she married. Dad currently uses his college degree and WOULD NOT have his current job without it.

Here's the problem: They have 2 kids. 1 approaching college age, and 1 much younger. The one approaching college age (a female) has essentially been told that college is a waste of money and that at most she should do the on-line college thing that all the cool fundie girls are doing. The younger one (a male) is already being geared towards a trade. If their daughter embraces this mindset (which she appears to have done wholeheartedly) she will be dependent upon a man to determine her lifestyle. She will not have a degree like her mom, and if she ever needs to support herself it will be a struggle. The son, if he embraces his parents ideas, will never obtain the level of comfort and financial security his parents enjoy. Life will probably be a paycheck to paycheck struggle. He will (if he takes the career they want him to take) do hard manual labor for the rest of his life. Mom and Dad never miss a chance to tell the kids what a waste college is and how many other ways there are to learn. Which would be fine and dandy....IF employers weren't looking for college degrees.

Which brings me to Kendal's latest post (one day I swear I'll quit torturing myself by reading her blog) *sigh*

Today Kendal is talking about college. Again. Here's what she says:

As most of my readers know, I have my "concerns" about government run education as well as the education that kids recieve from colleges and universities. I love to see when other people are catching on to the hidden agendas behind those said institutions.

Fox news never fails me! They typically have segments on the failures of each. Not that it makes me happy to hear stories of the downfall of government run education, but I'm glad that others are seeing the other side that most like to pretend doesn't exist.

This morning on Fox, they discussed what kids actually learn while attending college . As you know, there is a high probability that my daughters will not attend college. As far as my son, we will just have to assess that when the time comes. A piece of paper will not determine if my son is a successful husband/father one day.

http://www.thefatherknowsbest.com/2012/04/what-are-they-learning.html

Here's what I don't get. Kendal and her husband have college degrees. Kendal has used hers (and could use it again if she needed to), and her husband uses his to provide the lifestyle they now enjoy. I *think* she said he was an engineer, but don't quote me on that. Anyway, why? WHY does he use that degree if he doesn't need it to be a successful husband and father? Why not just pick a trade and forget to tell people that he has the benefit of a college education? Why did Kendal work in her field? I mean afterall, a girl can learn all she needs from other sources. They probably wouldn't have let her nurse, but maybe she could have answered phones or mopped the hospital floor. Wouldn't that have been fine?

You know what gets me the most? These poor girls will probably have more kids than they can say grace over, and they'll probably marry boys who've never set foot on a evil college campus. How are they supposed to support them? I guess they'll struggle through life while Kendal and her husband continue to benefit from their years in college. I guess that's what will happen in to my husband's family members too.

Don't get me wrong. There is NOTHING wrong with not going to college. If it's your choice. There is everything wrong with taking that option away from someone else.

[Conuly]

Fox News fails her each and every day, but since it confirms her idiotic little ideas I suppose that's okay in her books.

[Dhani_C]

Isn't hypocrisy great? Heaven forbid our children do better than we did!

[Swamptribe]

The problem is, fundies are really screwing themselves over with the whole anti-higher education thing. The modern world runs on technology. For technology, you need some type of reliable (non-diploma no accreditation) advanced education. Otherwise they are severely limiting their opportunities for the future. It really is a self-defeating mindset.

Not surprisingly, many fundies have bought into the romantic ideal of the era before we lived in a technological driven economy. They still think we're an agrarian rural society. They buy into a culture that never actually existed but is a fiction.

[MamaJunebug]

I don't follow Kendall but I would guess that she and the mister grew up in comfortable homes in the 1980s, 90s, 00s. Both their sets of parents saw to it that their own children went to college....let's think about this:

If Kendall is 35, born in 1977, her mother was probably born around 1955; let's call her mother Kendra. Kendra's parents in turn were probably born in the early 1930s. Depression time!!! Kendra heard -- as did I, as did many of my age group -- about the poverty, lack of food (lack of food, did you hear that, Kendall? lack of food in the USA for white people who had finished high school and had white-collar jobs!!) and hardship during The Depression.

So Kendra got Kendall educated, and Kendra's parents no doubt watching approvingly. "Give her something to be, a way to earn a living, and something to fall back on if she quits to have a family and her husband leaves the picture."

Kendall, however, is providing for her children ... well, everything you've all said.

There's a famous axiom that goes like this, "Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it." Of course, Kendall, having her own, will not repeat it. Her children may suffer, but hey! we're purified by suffering, right, blondie???

:evil: What stupid people populate dominionism!!!!

[NurseNell]

The younger one (a male) is already being geared towards a trade. .............. The son, if he embraces his parents ideas, will never obtain the level of comfort and financial security his parents enjoy. Life will probably be a paycheck to paycheck struggle. He will (if he takes the career they want him to take) do hard manual labor for the rest of his life. Mom and Dad never miss a chance to tell the kids what a waste college is and how many other ways there are to learn. Which would be fine and dandy....IF employers weren't looking for college degrees.

I don't see anything wrong with trade school. I know lots of carpenters, plumbers, and electricians who make more than I made with my BSN. My daughter applied for a job in a paper mill where she'd make more than she makes with her college degree in surveying, and she's head of a county surveying department. The benefits are better too. She didn't get the job, there were several hundred applicants, and they gave preference to those who already had a family member working in the mill.

[Koala]

I don't see anything wrong with trade school. I know lots of carpenters, plumbers, and electricians who make more than I made with my BSN. My daughter applied for a job in a paper mill where she'd make more than she makes with her college degree in surveying, and she's head of a county surveying department. The benefits are better too. She didn't get the job, there were several hundred applicants, and they gave preference to those who already had a family member working in the mill.

There is nothing "wrong" with it, but it IS hard work. 50 years of manual labor is hard on the body. Trust me, I come from a long line of people who held just such jobs. It's decent, honest work, but it's hard. But that's not the issue. The issue is that it's being decided for them. They don't get the choice, mom and dad do. That's wrong.

See my last sentence:

Don't get me wrong. There is NOTHING wrong with not going to college. If it's your choice. There is everything wrong with taking that option away from someone else.

[notsocommon]

I don't understand it, either....just like I do not understand how fundies can think that public schools are evil and sending your kids there is 'sending them to Caesar' and ' walking in the council of the wicked' yet the husband is a PS teacher. *baffled*

Either stick to your convictions or don't.

[kpmom]

I'm thinking back to the post made by Reversal-Anna Maxwell on why she is not attending college now that she is a proud graduate of the SOTDRT. I think it was in response to a question by a commenter (no doubt an uppity FJer).

She indicated it was her decision not to go, but honestly, who here thinks she really has a choice? What would the reaction be if she told her family she just wanted to take a few classes from the local community college? Or even from a reputable college on-line?

I agree, this generation of fundies is screwed as far as future employment goes. That's ok, the sooner it will die out hopefully.

[reds]

I dont see a problem with the trades either. You can make a good living with it if you make the right choices. My father was always employed and my husband worked his way up the ladder and now we have a very comfortable living.

That being said, some form of higher education is necessary. I went to a 2 year program and make a nice living. My son looks to be following in his fathers footsteps as he refuses to play with anything but hot wheels. My daughter is interested in art and we have been discussing graphic design.

It is extremely important to me that my daughter does not have to rely on someone for a living. That she is independant and can feed herself and any children she has if life throws her a curve ball. My son needs to know that he will be responsible for himself and maybe children some day.

We are saving for their college education to the detriment of our current lifestyle. We could be like others our age and have the best of everything but instead we are providing for their education and thinking ahead to make sure it happens. They have not been to Disneyland but they will be going to college.

[NurseNell]

manual labor is hard on the body. Trust me, I come from a long line of people who held just such jobs. It's decent, honest work, but it's hard. But that's not the issue. The issue is that it's being decided for them. They don't get the choice, mom and dad do. That's wrong.

See my last sentence:

Yes, I agree it needs to be the person's choice, not the parents'.

I have to tell you though, nursing is very hard on the body too.

[kpmom]

I dont see a problem with the trades either. You can make a good living with it if you make the right choices. My father was always employed and my husband worked his way up the ladder and now we have a very comfortable living.

My husband works in the electrical trade, and has always done fine, too. But, Koala has a point as far as being tough on your body as you get older. My husband was smart enough to get into the electrical inspection end of things the last decade or two, and is very glad he doesn't have to go crawling through attics and crawl spaces, wiring buildings at this stage of his life.

[NurseNell]

My husband works in the electrical trade, and has always done fine, too. But, Koala has a point as far as being tough on your body as you get older. My husband was smart enough to get into the electrical inspection end of things the last decade or two, and is very glad he doesn't have to go crawling through attics and crawl spaces, wiring buildings at this stage of his life.

Having a college education doesn't mean you won't have a job that's hard on the body. You'll be hard pressed to find any nurse who has worked in direct patient care for more than a few years who doesn't have chronic back pain. My sister is an ER nurse, 12 hour shifts, constantly on her feet. She just had her 2nd knee replaced, she's relatively young for that and she's not overweight. Teachers have very demanding jobs, both physically and mentally. My daughter is a surveyor. The field part of her job is very demanding. And she's still got 25 years or more of surveying ahead of her. My sister still has at least 10 years of nursing left.

[JesusFightClub]

There is nothing "wrong" with it, but it IS hard work. 50 years of manual labor is hard on the body. Trust me, I come from a long line of people who held just such jobs. It's decent, honest work, but it's hard. But that's not the issue. The issue is that it's being decided for them. They don't get the choice, mom and dad do. That's wrong.

See my last sentence:

Yes. This.

My dad left school at 14 to work in a factory. His dad before him was a miner but the pit shut down in the 80s. So my dad didn't get to follow him there.

His dream was to attend university. He failed his 11 plus and didn't get the chance. He had TB as a wean and was in hospital for years. Before anyone thinks I am talking about the olden days, I am 30 and my dad is 61.

Manual work is hard, painful and unforgiving. My dad got coal dust in his lungs and TB just after he was born although he hadn't been down the pit in his life, natch!

Working at a trade is a HUGE decision. It has to be yours, not made for you.

[JMarie]

Quote:

As most of my readers know, I have my "concerns" about government run education as well as the education that kids recieve from colleges and universities. I love to see when other people are catching on to the hidden agendas behind those said institutions.

Fox news never fails me! They typically have segments on the failures of each. Not that it makes me happy to hear stories of the downfall of government run education, but I'm glad that others are seeing the other side that most like to pretend doesn't exist.

This morning on Fox, they discussed what kids actually learn while attending college . As you know, there is a high probability that my daughters will not attend college. As far as my son, we will just have to assess that when the time comes. A piece of paper will not determine if my son is a successful husband/father one day.

The ironic thing is that the Fox News reporters talking about the "failures" of higher education, well, they all have college degrees.

[NurseNell]

Yes. This.

My dad left school at 14 to work in a factory. His dad before him was a miner but the pit shut down in the 80s. So my dad didn't get to follow him there.

His dream was to attend university. He failed his 11 plus and didn't get the chance. He had TB as a wean and was in hospital for years. Before anyone thinks I am talking about the olden days, I am 30 and my dad is 61.

Manual work is hard, painful and unforgiving. My dad got coal dust in his lungs and TB just after he was born although he hadn't been down the pit in his life, natch!

Working at a trade is a HUGE decision. It has to be yours, not made for you.

Coal mining, any kind of mining in fact, has to be one of the worse jobs ever.

And yes, working at a trade has to be your own decision. Actually I think any job or profession has to be your own decision. My mother encouraged me to become a librarian or teacher, I had my heart set on nursing. I'm glad I got to choose. I wish the Duggar girls could choose.

[Koala]

Having a college education doesn't mean you won't have a job that's hard on the body. You'll be hard pressed to find any nurse who has worked in direct patient care for more than a few years who doesn't have chronic back pain. My sister is an ER nurse, 12 hour shifts, constantly on her feet. She just had her 2nd knee replaced, she's relatively young for that and she's not overweight. Teachers have very demanding jobs, both physically and mentally. My daughter is a surveyor. The field part of her job is very demanding. And she's still got 25 years or more of surveying ahead of her. My sister still has at least 10 years of nursing left.

Yes Nell. There ARE college education type jobs that are hard on the body. That was your choice. You made it. No one made it for you. That is the point here.

These kids are having it decided for them. They are being forced into almost guaranteed manual labor if they want to make any money at all. Are there exceptions? Sure, my mom was one of them. But for every single one that works their way up, there are hundreds of others that can't. There are only so many jobs at "the top". There is no shame in manual labor, but it HAS TO BE YOUR CHOICE. That's what I am saying here. Not that there are no physically intensive jobs for the college educated,. :roll:

[NurseNell]

Yes Nell. There ARE college education type jobs that are hard on the body. That was your choice. You made it. No one made it for you. That is the point here.

These kids are having it decided for them. They are being forced into almost guaranteed manual labor if they want to make any money at all. Are there exceptions? Sure, my mom was one of them. But for every single one that works their way up, there are hundreds of others that can't. There are only so many jobs at "the top". There is no shame in manual labor, but it HAS TO BE YOUR CHOICE. That's what I am saying here. Not that there are no physically intensive jobs for the college educated,. :roll:

Yes, I've agreed 2 or 3 times since my original post that IT HAS TO BE THE CHOICE OF THE INDIVIDUAL. I agree with this. Parents CANNOT and SHOULD NOT make this choice. I get it

[fundifugee]

Seriously though, this 'keeper of the home' training that the fundies 'give' their daughters is a bunch of bourgeois genteel crap, isn't it? So you know how to cook and clean and smart shopping, and supposedly, raise kids. That will only hold you in good stead if you find a man who makes a decent income to support the both of you. Where is the training in agriculture? And other skills like spinning, weaving knitting, animal husbandry? These folks want to return to the Victorian era? People worked like slaves from before sun-up to after sunset. Carrying water, scrubbing clothes by hand, making clothes, growing enough vegetables to support the family throughout the winter and preserving them. Raising animals, disposing of human waste, scrubbing chamber pots. And at the end of the day, there was usually not enough food, only enough clothing for 2-3 outfits per person, only enough time to wash said clothing once a week, bathing once a week if that, and disgusting hygiene conditions with infestation by lice the norm. For real, finding the best bargains at Walmart may work for awhile, but with no skills outside the home, these girls better be prepared to survive dire poverty.

[NurseNell]

Seriously though, this 'keeper of the home' training that the fundies 'give' their daughters is a bunch of bourgeois genteel crap, isn't it? So you know how to cook and clean and smart shopping, and supposedly, raise kids. That will only hold you in good stead if you find a man who makes a decent income to support the both of you. Where is the training in agriculture? And other skills like spinning, weaving knitting, animal husbandry? These folks want to return to the Victorian era? People worked like slaves from before sun-up to after sunset. Carrying water, scrubbing clothes by hand, making clothes, growing enough vegetables to support the family throughout the winter and preserving them. Raising animals, disposing of human waste, scrubbing chamber pots. And at the end of the day, there was usually not enough food, only enough clothing for 2-3 outfits per person, only enough time to wash said clothing once a week, bathing once a week if that, and disgusting hygiene conditions with infestation by lice the norm. For real, finding the best bargains at Walmart may work for awhile, but with no skills outside the home, these girls better be prepared to survive dire poverty.

And men die, men walk out. Women absolutely need some kind of education and profession they can return to if necessary.

[fluttershies]

Not to mention that weaving, knitting etc were often jobs for the men. EVERYONE needs to know how to cook and clean and manage a household budget and mend clothing and many other skills that fundies label as being for women. What if these fundie husbands are left widowers? People talk about the skills gap college graduates face but surely the homemaker 'training' fundie girls receive is even more inadequate.

[NurseNell]

Not to mention that weaving, knitting etc were often jobs for the men. EVERYONE needs to know how to cook and clean and manage a household budget and mend clothing and many other skills that fundies label as being for women. What if these fundie husbands are left widowers? People talk about the skills gap college graduates face but surely the homemaker 'training' fundie girls receive is even more inadequate.

Someone told me a year or so ago that college men were the largest group of new knitters. Don't know if it's true. Remember Roosevelt Grier, NFL player Chicago Bears? He used to knit on the sidelines.

[Anise]

And men die, men walk out. Women absolutely need some kind of education and profession they can return to if necessary.

Or men decide that they are called by God to take a year off work to read the Bible when there are six young children at home. Poor Rebekah Anast (Pearl). :(

[NurseNell]

Or men decide that they are called by God to take a year off work to read the Bible when there are six young children at home. Poor Rebekah Anast (Pearl). :(

Really? :o I'd be using that Bible as a weapon.

[fluttershies]

Someone told me a year or so ago that college men were the largest group of new knitters. Don't know if it's true. Remember Roosevelt Grier, NFL player Chicago Bears? He used to knit on the sidelines.

Probably! Men seem to always have perfect tension when they knit, I am so jealous :lol: