Explain These Attitudes Toward Disability

[debrand]

My husband has knee problems that he developed after 24 years in the military. He also has a hearing loss that the military doctors told him was caused by working around planes. From riding on planes with war prisoners in Afghanistan, he developed TB but not the active, contagious type and was on antibiotics for while.

My husband has applied for disability through the military. We have two friends who do not think that anyone should get military disability unless they are bed ridden. Both these men served in the military and have joint issues from jumping out of planes. Both are die hard republicans who believe that the rich should not be taxed heavily or that loopholes should be closed for corporations. Neither man is rich.

The military puts very young people in situations that will cause them more problems when they are older(Like jumping out of planes) Most soldiers are not highly paid. So, I think that the military should cover some cost of the damage that will cause these men and women to have physical problesm when they are older. I know a lot of jumpers, especially, who end up with a lot of back, neck and knee problems.

What do you think? Have you come across this attitude before? It seems very self destructive and illogical to me. It also seems to be saying that the rich are better than lower middle class people because they have money.

[donks]

I think if someone has served and become injured or disabled due to that service they should be entitled to disability.

[lovefromgirl]

I think everyone who is disabled should be supported by society and encouraged to lead a full, happy life like any other human being.

Hugs to your husband about the TB. There are some nasty strains hanging around that area--MDR and XDR get profiled by Medecins Sans Frontieres all the time. Hope it was just garden-variety. Hugs to you, too, for sticking with him. <3

[kpmom]

Their attitude, especially being military themselves, makes no sense to me. I also don't get the "disability only if bed ridden" business.

Military personnel who've lost limbs might not be bedridden, but would they really deny them disability because they can get around with a cane or wheelchair?

Also, doesn't the military determine how disabled you are (a percentage) and compensate you based on that? In other words a bedridden person would get 100% disability, someone like your husband might get 25 or 50%, something like that.

I can't say I've come across this attitude, but I'd be shocked if I came across anyone who grumbled about military people getting disability. Their attitudes about the rich and taxes are not unusual for die hard Republicans, I just never heard them grumbling about military disability. They usually pride themselves on being more patriotic than thou.

Our country's economic woes have nothing to do with some military people getting some disability payments.

[Lady]

I have encountered these attitudes many times before, though I don't know many disabled adults my experience has been more with special needs children. My cousin has down syndrome, ADHD, epilepsy, and severe sensory issues. Despite the laundry list of problems, she manages to lead a very good life. Most people are very kind and do what they can to accommodate her. Some people are jackasses. Once, when we went bowling at one of those fancy allies that serves food, the woman at the next table/lane loudly prayed and thanked God she didn't have an [insert R-word here] child like that poor dear at the other table. She did it intentionally so I could hear it. It took everything I had not to cry right there in front of my cousin who thankfully was oblivious.

One thing I have learned about people is even though some are jerks, the good people who try to connect and be kind to my cousin far outweigh the jerks. Most people try, even if they have no clue, they make an effort. If they are willing to try, I can educate them. That's easy. It's the jerks who don't try that are hopeless.

[Third]

It's an attitude I have seen often. The disabled should be helped by all of us to lead full lives even more so veterans. Now that it's warm once again the veterans hold up their signs by Walmart - I'm a homeless vet. I offer lists of all the food banks, free clothing places etc in the area. I wish I could do more.

[Minerva]

My husband has knee problems that he developed after 24 years in the military. He also has a hearing loss that the military doctors told him was caused by working around planes. From riding on planes with war prisoners in Afghanistan, he developed TB but not the active, contagious type and was on antibiotics for while.

My husband has applied for disability through the military. We have two friends who do not think that anyone should get military disability unless they are bed ridden. Both these men served in the military and have joint issues from jumping out of planes. Both are die hard republicans who believe that the rich should not be taxed heavily or that loopholes should be closed for corporations. Neither man is rich.

The military puts very young people in situations that will cause them more problems when they are older(Like jumping out of planes) Most soldiers are not highly paid. So, I think that the military should cover some cost of the damage that will cause these men and women to have physical problesm when they are older. I know a lot of jumpers, especially, who end up with a lot of back, neck and knee problems.

What do you think? Have you come across this attitude before? It seems very self destructive and illogical to me. It also seems to be saying that the rich are better than lower middle class people because they have money.

I think people tend to adopt attitudes, no matter how illogical or hurtful, that reflect what they hear their "leaders" saying. For instance, I read an article according to which hate crimes against people with disabilities have been occurring more frequently in the UK since their government has started talking about cutting disability pay. Polls have shown that stereotypes of people with disabilities as lazy and mooching off the system have emerged and more and more people are believing them. This makes no sense! Nobody in their right mind can expect any person with a disability to be able to just choose a job that fits their needs, especially in this economy, and it's plain fucking obvious that A LOT of disabilities do not leave one with the energy to work even part time. It's absurd to suddenly forget all this and assume they're freeloaders. And I think people do it because they are so programmed to accept the authority of the government (and anyone else they assume is smarter than them by virtue of having power), that they would rather believe in a version of reality that they themselves have twisted than dissent.

[Terrasola]

Are we married to the same guy?

I've been married to my military guy for over a quarter century, and have worked with acorns, secret squirrels, horsemen, fish heads (anchor clankers), seagulls (canaries), and grunts (ground pounders) for my career as a petty beaurocrat. I see the good, bad, and the FUGLY.

Because of the different laws in Canada I have noticed different attitudes here. Prior to 2006 it was possible to receive a military disability pension for life for injuries, including those where the damage accumulated over time (e.g. hearing loss). In 2006 the New Veterans Charter came into force, which provides for lump sum payments ONLY. According to the public opinion research I've seen, the Canadian public understands the irony of the fact that someone seriously injured (e.g. multiple amuptations) in 2005 would receive a full pension for life, while a reg member similarly injured just a few months later in 2006 could receive, at most, $256K Cdn. It does not seem fair when that person must start his / her life over. Of course, there are additional benefits for medical, retraining, job placement, etc. but if you cannot work for the rest of your life due to injury, $256K does not go very far.

However, what you are discussing are the injuries accumulated over a lifetime of service. I believe that when your country uses your body itself as a raw material, it has an obligation to look after that body, and to assume reaonable responsibility for the effects on your body received while in the service to your country, regardless of when those effects show up. The only issues generating public discussion in Canada (apart from whether we should go here or there to provide military support) appear to be issues of inequity: similar situations or levels of injury and incapacity resulting in differing financial compensation. Also, I see that the one area in our country that historically has shown less support for the existence of a Canadian military is less supportive of higher levels of compensation for "lesser" injuries and yet is more supportive of higher compensation for "greater" injuries.

My concerns are largely with the FIGMO attitudes of the ring knocker careerist full bulls and upper brass at the Puzzle Palace who don't care that the advice and orders they give with regard to compensation for injuries are screwing over their Brothers and Sisters in Arms. I do see parallels, though, to what you are talking about Debrand. These senior officers are in an elite, financially well-off group who don't seem to understand that they are a few lucky breaks away from having been in the same situations as their fellow disabled military members. As they rise in rank, they lose touch with the reality most military members experience. They want to keep their privileged positions and do what it takes to do so.

I suspect that your friends are afraid of losing their position of financial stability and are fearful of change. They may also have that macho military thing going and don't like any thing that challenges it in the least. Finally there may be an "elitist" factor at play. After all, you can't feel superior unless you have someone to whom you can feel superior (less healthy, less well-off, less dogmatic, etc.).

Bravo Zulu to your hubby, and to you for manning the home front.

[MyNameIsJonas]

My dad is a marine corps Vet and I think I've mentioned before that he received a flu shot that gave him a cytokine storm and caused his kidney to fail. He's had a transplant and is awaiting another, and is considered 100% disabled. We had a neighbor who would bring up the lovely disability payments my dad received whenever we talked about being hard up financially. He made it sound like we were so lucky that he got money from the gov't (not that it y'know, came at a price or anything). Once on a local radio station a caller was ranting about his tax dollars paying for disability. I'm not a big "america, frick yeah!" type of girl but I do respect the service, especially since it's affected my life so directly, so I can't understand this mindset of leaving our veterans to die in a ditch when they come home.

[clibbyjo]

Hugs to your husband debrand who is most certainly entitled to full services for the injuries he received during enlistment. If he needs help with navigating things let me know in a PM. Part of my husbands job is to get vets service connected and he says many of them do not apply even though they should have years ago. Good news it much of the time when they finally do apply,it can be retroactive.

You can do more if you would like Third.The VA. system does a ton of homeless work in the community. Anyone over age 14 can volunteer in the VA system and I can tell you right now they need younger people. My son volunteers once a week and the guys he works with are all around 80 years old. My son works the homeless programs in the summer(where they give out clothes,shoes and blankets)because he is one of the few able bodied volunteers.

[Boltingmadonna]

I think a big part of this attitude comes from the notion that if you were a "real man" you would just suck it up. If you ask for help, you're just a whiner. If you admit to pain or disability, you're not manly. This contributes to a lot of problems all over society, not just for the military. It discourages men from asking for help with mental health issues when they really need it, as well as denying them needed physical care.

It also comes from a very callous capitalist mindset, where people are just resources to be used up. Once you get hurt, you're not useful, so nobody cares about you any more. Not my problem, charlie, too bad for you.

It's not a new problem--Rudyard Kipling wrote a famous poem about it called "Tommy," which was a nickname for British soldiers as G.I. Joe is for Americans.

http://faxmentis.org/html/kipling.html

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"

But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;

An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;

An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

[lilwriter85]

I have seen some really ugly attitudes towards people with disabilities or people that receive disability benefits from social security or the military. I have a relative in DC who worked at Gallaudet University for awhile. Gallaudet serves mostly deaf and hard of hearing students. During the time my cousin worked there a lot of students were receiving SSDI and those students used to get a lot of hate for collecting benefits. My boyfriend's mom is an occupational therapist who has had patients tell her about people knocking them for getting disability.

The worst incident I heard of involved my friend's dad. The dad became disabled due to a back injury in a car accident. They fought for years to get the dad disability and when he started collecting, a neighbor was harassing the family like crazy and calling them moochers. This happened for about a year. The family considered pressing charges but they didn't want to make things worse. The guy ended up moving out of the neighborhood.

[reds]

I dont have a lot of experience in knowing very many people who are on disability. The one experience I do have is a super poor example so my vision is cloudy by most standards.

Here, in Alberta, we have a program called AISH. It is a income suppliment for people to are disabled. I believe it was set up for the mentally handicapped so they could live on their own or in group homes. It is widely abused now by all sorts of people.

My BIL was dating a woman who claimed she was on AISH for Graves disease. In truth she would have been a functioning member of society if it wasnt for her love of crack. She was using the government run program as a suppliment to her addiction including receiving perscriptions.

The other example i have is a former friend applied for AISH because she didnt want to work. Had a doctor claim she was too depressed to function normally in society but spends alot/most of her time at various church groups.

I feel that if you have a disability and require help you should receive it but abuse of the system is rampant. Also, how or why does your neighbour know that you are on disability, who you vote for, or if you are wearing pink panties. There are just somethings you just dont mention in any conversation.

[DarkAnts]

These men have already paid for the disability help. They served their country and were willing to give the ultimate sacrifice. They developed the disability while keeping everyone in America safe. That is reason enough to give them the disability payments. I think more needs to be done for these vets. I bet that the people who are against it have never visited a VA hospital. It can be such an eye opening experience.

[Cannelle]

I feel that if you have a disability and require help you should receive it but abuse of the system is rampant.

Abuse is rampant? Do you have a source for that? Something that talks about what percentages of disability cases are real verses which are just people scamming the system?

[Grace]

Are there different levels of disability pay?

I have a family member who is on disability because they had a serious issue resulting in surgery which then resulted in them not being able to sit or stand for long periods of time, so they couldn't probably work full time at most jobs. BUT they have an under-the-table home business where they are able to do whenever they are able to get clients, which I think varies from 1 or 2 a week to a handful a month. Not consistent because they aren't able to market it since they aren't reporting it :roll: But it's clear that they could do some part-time work. But if they did it officially they'd lose their disability alltogether, right?

It seems like there should be levels or something so that people who are able to do SOME work and disibility would pick up the difference in what is needed to live on. That way people could stay active and feel good about themselves for at least contributing. I think having to be 100% dependent on disability when you feel like you could do SOMETHING no matter how small could be really disheartening.

[brashchick]

Debrand, I am just sorry your husband is going through this. I have only encountered this attitude once before -- from a co worker when I worked in a mortgage company. Frankly, she was so ignorant I thought it was just her ususal ranting. That you heard it from your husbands' fellow military veterans shocks me.

Sending good thoughts your way that he is able to get what he earned serving his country.

[Minerva]

My dad is a marine corps Vet and I think I've mentioned before that he received a flu shot that gave him a cytokine storm and caused his kidney to fail. He's had a transplant and is awaiting another, and is considered 100% disabled. We had a neighbor who would bring up the lovely disability payments my dad received whenever we talked about being hard up financially. He made it sound like we were so lucky that he got money from the gov't (not that it y'know, came at a price or anything). Once on a local radio station a caller was ranting about his tax dollars paying for disability. I'm not a big "america, frick yeah!" type of girl but I do respect the service, especially since it's affected my life so directly, so I can't understand this mindset of leaving our veterans to die in a ditch when they come home.

It's ridiculous, right? Upon hearing someone who gets disability payments talk about how having financial problems, logic would dictate that those payments aren't very big. You'd have to be pretty prejudiced to skip that intellectual step and just assume that they're lying.

I know I'm going OT (again), but that reminds me of when families in my community held a fundraiser to pay for the continuing education of a young man who not only had severe cerebral palsy, but was blind. They were a farming family. My dad had the gall to suggest that, because they drove a rather nice large truck, there was a chance that this fundraiser was a scam. Never mind that they obviously need a vehicle of that size given their occupation. Never mind that it costs a fuckton of money to keep someone with that level of disability living at home, in the country, and getting a post-secondary education. Never mind the hate you're propagating by saying you have to watch people with disabilities extra closely lest they scam you for a bit of pocket money. It's outrageous that this family should have to make a point of buying a shitty truck in order for people to grant them basic dignity. Just as it is outrageous to expect someone with depression to never smile in Facebook pictures if they want to keep their disability insurance payments. It's discriminatory to make certain people jump through hoops in order to have a decent life.

[Cannelle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're awarded different levels of disability depending on your condition.

Grace, I can sympathize with your family member. (Disclaimer: I'm not on disability, nor have I attempted to get it.) When my back is really bad (degenerative disc disease, sacroiliac joint problems; possibly other stuff going on), I can't sit, stand, or walk without extreme, tears-to-my-eyes, it-hurts-to-blink kind of pain. Even sitting on the couch is too painful to do more than a minute or two; I have to lay down. Who would hire me? How could I work when I can't even sit? There ARE things I can do, though. My back isn't bad every single day, but there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to what causes the bad days, or when a bad day pops up (which is why I haven't attempted to get disability). I could do computer work while laying down on the couch, if I qualified for an at-home position (and I haven't, not any of the ones I've seen). What kind of business is going to hire someone like that? Not retail, since standing is right out. Not an office, because I can't reliably sit for long periods of time. What's a person like me (or your relative) to do in that case?

It's frustrating, and believe me, I'd MUCH rather be able to work. Somedays I feel like my life is just wasting away while I lay on the couch.

[DarkAnts]

Are there different levels of disability pay?

I have a family member who is on disability because they had a serious issue resulting in surgery which then resulted in them not being able to sit or stand for long periods of time, so they couldn't probably work full time at most jobs. BUT they have an under-the-table home business where they are able to do whenever they are able to get clients, which I think varies from 1 or 2 a week to a handful a month. Not consistent because they aren't able to market it since they aren't reporting it :roll: But it's clear that they could do some part-time work. But if they did it officially they'd lose their disability alltogether, right?

It seems like there should be levels or something so that people who are able to do SOME work and disibility would pick up the difference in what is needed to live on. That way people could stay active and feel good about themselves for at least contributing. I think having to be 100% dependent on disability when you feel like you could do SOMETHING no matter how small could be really disheartening.

Yes, there are different levels of disability pay. My dad is considered to be 60% disabled from serving in Vietnam. He gets 60% of the pay that a 100% disabled person gets. The VA even encourages vets to get jobs. They will help you find a job and provide training, technology or what ever else you need for the job.

The federal government also has a program called vocational rehabilitation. They are great at helping disabled people find jobs that they can do. They also provide training, technology and what ever else you need to get a job. I have been using them because I have a learning disability. They are providing me with some technology to help me do my job and helping me learn coping mechanisms.

[Minerva]

Abuse is rampant? Do you have a source for that? Something that talks about what percentages of disability cases are real verses which are just people scamming the system?

I second this request. I've only ever heard 2 people claim that people on disability/welfare widely abuse the system, and they turned out to be extremely right-wing, one of whom believed that people who can't be self-sufficient should die. I know a variety of people, a fraction of whom could be construed as downright crooks, and I have never known any of them to abuse welfare or disability. However I do know a lot of people who have been on welfare or disability for very valid, albeit often invisible reasons. And I think the invisibility of most disabilities plays a major part in the "rampant abuse" mythology surrounding disability payments. I also think the fact that Alberta is a rather conservative province plays into it, because this idea isn't nearly as prevalent in Ontario (call me out if I'm making any unfounded assumptions here).

[DarkAnts]

I second this request. I've only ever heard 2 people claim that people on disability/welfare widely abuse the system, and they turned out to be extremely right-wing, one of whom believed that people who can't be self-sufficient should die. I know a variety of people, a fraction of whom could be construed as downright crooks, and I have never known any of them to abuse welfare or disability. However I do know a lot of people who have been on welfare or disability for very valid, albeit often invisible reasons. And I think the invisibility of most disabilities plays a major part in the "rampant abuse" mythology surrounding disability payments. I also think the fact that Alberta is a rather conservative province plays into it, because this idea isn't nearly as prevalent in Ontario (call me out if I'm making any unfounded assumptions here).

I think they see people with ADHD or mental illness on disability and think that the person is screwing the system. There are people can NOT function let alone do a job. These people are put on disability temporarily so they can get medications straitened out. Its hard to get on disability for these sorts of illnesses. You have to prove that you are unable to function in a work environment. You cant simply walk up to the judge and say I have ADHD and expect the judge to give you disability.

[Elle]

If he can't work a regular job with reasonable accommodation (any reasonable changes an employer could make to accommodate him, such as a job that normally required a lot of standing but could be done while sitting on a stool or in a chair), then he won't be considered disabled. Are there any jobs in your area that he could work with reasonable accommodations? A job assembling stuff, a desk job transcribing, etc.? If yes, they he'll have a very very hard time getting approved for full disability. It's hard enough even for people who are chronically ill and in the hospital all the time to get approved. They're worried about all the people who think they're disabled because of normal aches and pains and so don't want to work. So it's typical to be denied the first time, no matter what the condition or circumstances. For people who really are disabled (and I can't judge this regarding your husband since I just don't know what jobs are in your area and the severity of his knee or hearing issues, or how the TB affects things), then we do need to be taking better care of people. I know of some disabled people getting so little they're homeless because it's not enough to get a place to live with, including a nurse with a large tumor making her unable to stand and she's in the hospital often, a severe epileptic, and a double-amputee with mobility issues in both her hands. The last one recently got a home with a friend, but the other two don't have homes. It's awful how disabled people in general are treated in this country, like burdens and many feel ashamed because they're treated like burdens, like the husband's friends.

Those "friends" need to realize that the meaning of disability isn't to be bedridden.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Lots of good points already made above. If I had to list some...

(1) Military disability is really not all that different from worker's comp, and the same attitudes apply - the boss will do anything and everything in his power to claim that either (a) you weren't injured on the JOB but rather on your off time doing whatever hobbies you have (this one works great with military and physical job people, because often they do have active hobbies), (b) okay okay, you injured yourself on the job, but it was because you weren't doing your job CORRECTLY (we won't ask if you were given proper training and equipment though!), or finally © how can you claim disability for your little injury when there are people hurt far worse than you are? Anyway all you need is a little exercise (on your OWN, mind you!! We're not paying for guidance!) because you're out of shape. Also you should man up, you pussy. Are you not on a stretcher? Well then.

(2) Politicians want to cut the funding for all sorts of workers compensation and military benefits including disability, and one easy way to get the public on board with that is to portray the claimants as malingers and cheaters. So you get tales of fraud, you get purple heart band-aids. When it comes to the military, you get almost hero-worship (from the politicians) for healthy soldiers who are willing to come out in support of the current war, but the moment a military member gets injured or starts criticizing Pentagon or political policy, they trot out the other stereotype, the malingering drug-addicted failed scary veteran.

(3) As with any other kind of safety net problem, rooting out the fraud that exists is a 90-10 problem - it will cost as much to get rid of the last 10% (if you ever could) as it would to get rid of the first 90%. So just as with any other system on earth, financial engineering OR otherwise, the sweet spot honestly best functioning solution will always tolerate a bit of fraud in the system, and that's ok. If we want legitimate people to get services, it has to be that way.

But of course the politicians in (2) will use the few sensationalized stories they find left from (3) to claim that everyone's just cheating and so we're back to (1).

And yeah, behind it all, there's a sense that rich people are inherently better people because they've shown they can earn money so they must be productive. As if.

[Cannelle]

However I do know a lot of people who have been on welfare or disability for very valid, albeit often invisible reasons.

That's another reason I'm terrified of ever having to try to get disability, if it comes down to that. On my bad days, even when I'm in craploads of pain and spend time crying because of it, you can't really look at me and know, unless you know me really well, I think. I walk slow, sometimes I limp a little. Getting up from a sitting/laying down position takes a while (that often causes the worst pain of all) and I have to sometimes stand in one place for a few moments to let everything move back into place. Other than those things, and looking really tired from dealing with the constant pain, that's it. I constantly wish that there were some sort of signal- flashing lights, maybe- that definitively showed when and where you were in pain, so that the world could see how much I'm struggling.