Chaviva closed her blog

[clibbyjo]

Anyone else read Orthodox Jew blogger" Just Call Me Chaviva"? Appartently she closed her blog today to invited readers only. I am a regular reader and her blog is on my blogroll,but I cannot see anything past "So long,farwell, I have offended Orthodox and converts alike so I am closing the blog. What happened? I was going to send her a message to add me but I cannot find the link so I am out of luck... :?

I like her and wanted to see how life as a new divorced person was going. Any info. can PM me if you don't want it out in the open....

[ilovetchotchkes]

earlier today it said that she was keeping it as an archive.

I was hoping it was a Purim joke, but it looks like no. :(

[Kelya]

oh no! i really liked her blog, especially her observations on her time in teaneck, new jersey. the archives were very interesting, like her trouble with getting on an orthodox birthrite trip. i think she's a lot nicer and more fun to read than skyler, too. aww shucks. :/

[Beeks]

oh no! i really liked her blog, especially her observations on her time in teaneck, new jersey. the archives were very interesting, like her trouble with getting on an orthodox birthrite trip. i think she's a lot nicer and more fun to read than skyler, too. aww shucks. :/

Yes! I recently started reading Skylar and damn is that girl depressing.

[Not That Kind of Dr]

I saw that good-bye announcement earlier today too and found it disappointing. I assume that she closed her blog because of the beating she took in the comments on her most recent post about her divorce. Almost all the criticism seems to boil down to the same complaint, however: by currently living a less-than-Orthodox lifestyle and being so open about it, she's ruining conversion for everyone else. She does seem to be prone to making sudden, drastic life changes that end up not bringing her the kind of permanent happiness she was hoping for, but from my perspective, that tendency just make her blog all the more compelling.

[Dinorah]

What a shame, I liked her blog, I agree she seemed nicer than Skylar. I assume she had enough of getting criticized because she's been so open about her relationship with a non-Jewish man?

[FaustianSlip]

Yeah, although there have been a lot of people voicing support for her on Facebook and elsewhere. I know Skylar has been riding her pretty hard about the whole dating a non-Jew thing, and apparently others have, as well. It sounds like they've been doing it via e-mail, too, which is really low, although it's possible that she just hasn't been letting the comments through. The thing is, while I think Skylar's blog is really informative and useful for potential converts (though sometimes for all of the wrong reasons), she is not the arbiter of who is and is not a good convert. She's not a halachic authority, and she's not the boss of Orthodoxy or conversion. She's one person with a blog. That's it. I think it's a crying shame if bullshit from her and others drives Chaviva underground, especially because I recognize some of myself in Chaviva, mostly from a time when I was very depressed and having a really tough time. These people are kicking her when she's down, and it's a really shitty thing to do. And not only that, but the Sages say that if a convert goes off the derech and stops being observant, you know what? It's not their fault, it's the community's. So maybe some of these folks should consider taking a long, hard look at themselves instead of spewing lashon hora all over the place and dumping on someone who's really not in a place to deal with it right now.

I've always found Chaviva much more readable than Skylar mostly because I felt like she was much more honest about the struggle of becoming more observant. She put her opinions out there, good or bad, and was supportive of all converts, regardless of denomination. By contrast, Skylar (especially lately) seems to be mostly parroting the Orthodox party line. I don't know if this has to do with concerns about date-ability, if it's just a case of frumming out or what, but I feel like it's gotten much more pronounced in the last couple of months. And her panic over some totally different person who's going through a really hard time dating "out" and paranoia about revoked conversions just seems way over the top to me. I honestly don't get it, and speaking as a non-Orthodox convert, every time I read one of those comments, I find myself breathing a sigh of relief that I didn't pursue the Orthodox route. I can't imagine living that way, constantly in such fear that some stranger could be responsible for getting my conversion revoked. And I certainly wouldn't want to treat someone so crappily out of my own misplaced fears about my beit din and conversion. I dunno... I feel like my conversion made me a better, more mindful person in a lot of ways. That doesn't seem to be the effect that Orthodox conversion has on a lot of people- if anything, it mostly appears to make them more paranoid and suspicious. I don't think that's great advertising, personally.

[Deleted03]

I saw that good-bye announcement earlier today too and found it disappointing. I assume that she closed her blog because of the beating she took in the comments on her most recent post about her divorce. Almost all the criticism seems to boil down to the same complaint, however: by currently living a less-than-Orthodox lifestyle and being so open about it, she's ruining conversion for everyone else. She does seem to be prone to making sudden, drastic life changes that end up not bringing her the kind of permanent happiness she was hoping for, but from my perspective, that tendency just make her blog all the more compelling.

Do they realize how self centered that sounds? You can't get a divorce - a right that has been fought over, because it is crucial - because you're ruining MY experience? No it's never the establishment the problem, it is those individuals who only respect 99% of the rules.

They make it sound like such a dystopia. What's the point of going into a tight knit community if there is just bashing and your status is for ever on the line? Find a more helpful community!!!

[FaustianSlip]

You can't get a divorce - a right that has been fought over, because it is crucial - because you're ruining MY experience?

It's not the divorce that's the problem, but the fact that after the divorce, she started dating a non-Jew. Marrying "out" can still be a pretty big deal even in the most secular Jewish families; in the context of an Orthodox community, it's a giant no-no. I'm not judging her, incidentally; she's just gone through a divorce, it sounds like she was badly hurt by how quickly her ex-husband moved on (totally justified, IMHO), and she's sorting out what she wants for herself now that the ground has completely shifted under her. If seeing someone who isn't Jewish makes her feel happy and healthy and cared for, I'm not going to fault her for that. And as someone who's also a convert and living in an area very sparse in the way of Jewish dating options, I can completely relate to the temptation to date non-Jewish guys. I've considered it more than once, but for me, I just don't think it would work. I don't fault other people who do make it work, though.

I do agree, however, that the self absorption evident in the, "But- but- you can't date him! What about all of us?!" comments is pretty breathtaking. This is someone who's obviously hurting pretty badly, and that's what you're choosing to focus on? Seriously? So much for derech eretz. I think it's better that she's being open about her struggles than just bottling it all up.

They make it sound like such a dystopia. What's the point of going into a tight knit community if there is just bashing and your status is for ever on the line? Find a more helpful community!!!

This is why I think these comments and handwringing are such a terrible advertisement for Orthodoxy in general and Orthodox conversion in particular. It makes the Orthodox community look vindictive and heartless, it makes Orthodox converts come off as calculating and self-centered, and it's just a huge turn-off all around for anyone who might be considering Orthodoxy, I think. I mean, I understand where some of the concern is coming from, as well as the visceral reaction to dating someone who isn't Jewish, and I'm finding these reactions completely over the top and distasteful. What does it look like for someone totally outside the community who stumbles upon this stuff? Not a great advertisement, IMHO. And that aside, treating her like dirt is hardly going to convince her to stick around. I mean, why would anyone put up with that? So if they're hoping to shame her right out of observance entirely, they're doing a fantastic job.

[clibbyjo]

I sent Chavi a private FB message to show some support. I think she is keeping the FB open,but was considering closing down everything yesterday if you follow her FB. The blog is closed to all,that is just the message you get its invited readers only.

[Kishiria]

Skylar's the friend of a friend, but no kidding her blog is depressing. I've always had a strong interest in Judaism, although I am excluded because I really don't believe in an almighty universal God. I've since concluded, from reading her blog, that if I felt otherwise and chose to convert, I'd go conservative all the way--oh wait, according to Skylar that's a "liberal" conversion.

[FaustianSlip]

I'm a Conservative convert, and I don't regret the decision at all, for what it's worth. Yeah, there are the issues of "validity," but whatever. As Skylar reiterates constantly, there will always be someone happy to question your conversion, no matter how Orthodox it was. Given that, I figured I may as well convert in the community that I actually plan to join, would actually want and where I feel the most compatibility observance- and theology-wise. If all Orthodox conversion would get me is nagging from people who don't think I'm frum enough and paranoia that my conversion could be yanked if I put on a pair of trousers, sod it. I can be as frum as I need to be in a Conservative community (or a partnership minyan or something comparable) without all of the attendant crap.

This isn't to discount all of the cool Orthodox people I know, incidentally, or those who find what they're looking for in an Orthodox conversion. But with the swing to the right of so many Orthodox communities and the way converts are being treated both during and after the process these days, I chose honesty between myself and God and preserving my own sanity over being "completely accepted," and I feel pretty comfortable with that. If any kids I have later opt to go through an Orthodox conversion, that's their prerogative.

[Esther]

This thing wasn't Skylar, I don't think - I know Chaviva somewhat and I think it was due to an old acquaintance posting a really uncalled for comment about her dating life and her status as a convert. People have been giving her hell about this for a while but I think this was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[FaustianSlip]

I gathered that (about the friend) from some stuff I read on Facebook, but I also saw several comments on the initial post about the boyfriend from Skylar that were bad enough that after being called out, she (Skylar) went and deleted them. And there are other things I won't get into here that lead me to think something she said had a role in this latest decision to kill the blog. I don't think Skylar's comments were the sole reason for ending the blog, but they were probably a contributing factor. And Skylar aside, the conduct of a number of other "frum" folks in the comments section of Chavi's posts has been really reprehensible. I guess as far as they're concerned, being shomer mitzvot only applies to things like kashrut and taharat hamishpacha and not basic middos and interpersonal interactions.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I always liked Chaviva more, like Faustian said, she's more..... "real". Being Jewish isn't easy, I mean for heaven's sakes "Yisrael" literally means to wrestle with G-d, so her struggles seem more real to me as opposed to Skylar who is just a little too goody goody for my tastes. No offense personally but I've NEVER been a "party line" type girl.

[pomology]

This thing wasn't Skylar, I don't think - I know Chaviva somewhat and I think it was due to an old acquaintance posting a really uncalled for comment about her dating life and her status as a convert. People have been giving her hell about this for a while but I think this was the straw that broke the camel's back.

To be fair, on her facebook, when people were asking her why people were saying she was a horrible Jew, she said to ask Skylar and somebody else. But she did bring up Skylar's name.

[Esther]

I gathered that (about the friend) from some stuff I read on Facebook, but I also saw several comments on the initial post about the boyfriend from Skylar that were bad enough that after being called out, she (Skylar) went and deleted them. And there are other things I won't get into here that lead me to think something she said had a role in this latest decision to kill the blog. I don't think Skylar's comments were the sole reason for ending the blog, but they were probably a contributing factor. And Skylar aside, the conduct of a number of other "frum" folks in the comments section of Chavi's posts has been really reprehensible. I guess as far as they're concerned, being shomer mitzvot only applies to things like kashrut and taharat hamishpacha and not basic middos and interpersonal interactions.

LOL, we seem to move in the same FB circles - I was the first person on Chaviva's blog FB asked what she meant when she said something about an awful comment. :D

But I agree - Skylar and others have definitely been judgey toward Chaviva. I don't doubt that contributed. I just figured that comment may have been the final push.

[longskirts]

I'm sorry Chaviva has gotten so many negative comments, especially since she's been going through a difficult situation. At the same time, Chaviva was until very recently promoting herself as an authority on Orthodox conversion--not just writing her blog, but instructing prospective converts on what to do, making plans to change and improve Orthodox institutions, and inviting people to submit questions to her. Then within the space of a couple weeks, she did a 180 and started breaking all the rules and advice she had been giving others. So it's not really surprising that there would be some backlash. I think some people feel betrayed because they were depending on her for guidance about Orthodoxy--and as far as I can see, she completely encouraged that.

She doesn't deserve verbal abuse, and I hope people leave her alone to recover from her divorce and figure things out. But there might have been a better reaction is she had distanced herself from her previous positions a little more gradually.

[stonefruit]

The strange thing about Skylar, for me, is: here is this brand-new convert, and she presumes to speak with some kind of halachic authority? Like, I get that she probably knows more than I do (raised Reform, currently somewhere on the Conservadox side of things) because she made a concerted study of halacha and Jewish tradition, but how presumptuous of her to position herself as a halachic decisor.

At the very least, shouldn't she realize that women Don't Do That Sort of Thing in Orthodox Judaism?

Honestly, she baffles me.

[ilovetchotchkes]

The strange thing about Skylar, for me, is: here is this brand-new convert, and she presumes to speak with some kind of halachic authority? Like, I get that she probably knows more than I do (raised Reform, currently somewhere on the Conservadox side of things) because she made a concerted study of halacha and Jewish tradition, but how presumptuous of her to position herself as a halachic decisor.

At the very least, shouldn't she realize that women Don't Do That Sort of Thing in Orthodox Judaism?

Honestly, she baffles me.

I think that's part of the reason why I'm not crazy about Skylar. I am by no stretch of the imagination Orthodox, but it seems, she's judging, when she's in no position to do so.

[FaustianSlip]

At the same time, Chaviva was until very recently promoting herself as an authority on Orthodox conversion--not just writing her blog, but instructing prospective converts on what to do, making plans to change and improve Orthodox institutions, and inviting people to submit questions to her.

Eh, I never took her blog that way at all. Skylar? Totally wants to be (or already thinks she is) an authority on Orthodox conversion. Chavi? She pursued an Orthodox conversion, she's written about it extensively and has offered advice to prospective converts who asked, but I don't see that as being one in the same. She's been pretty honest, I felt, about her struggles with observance and recent personal events. And I actually started to gain an inkling that there was discontent back when she was talking about how to make the conversion process less fraught and protect prospective converts from bullying. That was the first time I thought a change was underway, and I don't think it was all that subtle. Ditto her comments about the Orthodox community in her town (and really, some of those comments would be relevant to anyone who keeps kosher, for instance, and that's not limited to Orthodox Jews at all).

Chavi didn't have to say anything about the new boyfriend or the fact that he's not Jewish. I respect that she was honest enough to do so, rather than just trying to sneak around and keep posting about how perfect everything was. And people respectfully saying, "Hey, I'm not okay with that, but it's your decision," is a world apart from the comments that were getting thrown at her on that first entry about dating out. There was some really nasty stuff going down there, and that was the stuff that was actually posted- I can just imagine what she was getting by e-mail.

I also think she felt like her previous community distanced itself from her in the wake of her divorce (which, frankly, they probably did). I guess I don't fault her because I think everyone's observance level ebbs and flows- my own included, and I'm not going to ride someone when they're already dealing with a pretty shitty situation. Also, which is worse, really? Someone who converted Orthodox, went through something traumatic and is now trying to work through it by dating a non-Jew, or people lambasting the first person with accusations of ruining every other convert's life, throwing halacha in the garbage, and on and on... while engaging in a ton of lashon hora, backbiting and verbal abuse? I'm pretty sure the latter is totally in opposition to "Torah Judaism," as well, but I guess we only care about whether someone keeps Shabbos properly. Or something.

[longskirts]

Eh, I never took her blog that way at all.

I wasn't saying that just from her blog--there was also stuff she commented on other people's blogs, and what she said on Twitter (from her now-closed account). I've even seen her telling Modern Orthodox rabbis that they're wrong about halacha and she knows better what the halacha is and what they should do. Of course she's entitled to an opinion, but she didn't shy away from claiming to know the answers on halacha any more than Skylar does.

One thing people were bringing up in the comments to her dating post was that she herself has attacked people who converted Orthodox and then changed their observance.

[GryffindorFTW]

Yeah, I'm thinking Skylar probably had a lot to do with this behind the scenes, and not just because Chaviva has now basically said so on her Facebook. Since Chaviva's big reveal of her relationship with Tyler and evolving Jewish identity, some of Skylar's posts have seemed a bit, well, pointed. Chaviva posted about choosing/changing her minhagim, post-divorce, and Skylar almost immediately posted about choosing a waiting time between meat and milk, but with a nice little aside at the end saying that once you choose a minhag, even for expediency in marriage, you're not allowed to change it. Call me excessively analytical, but I really don't think the correlation is accidental. In the same vein, Skylar's recent posts about being off the derech, vegetarianism and Orthodoxy, picking and choosing mitzvot, Jewish names after conversion, and judging have all struck me as slightly less-than-coincidental in timing and content. Skylar has also decided to go on "hiatus" just as this shit storm is starting. Convenient.

I used to really like Skylar's blog, but on top of her recent holier-than-thou swing to the right and hypercritical tone, I'm not feeling it so much anymore. If she has really been bullying Chaviva behind the scenes, and if her conspicuous recent posts really are some kind of passive aggressive statement, then she is not the woman she has previously painted herself to be. How disappointing.

[longskirts]

I really don't think the blog closing is all due to Skylar. Chaviva had a wide readership (she's a social media professional as her job) including people who agreed and disagreed with her. She's been on the criticizing and judging side herself. More likely she doesn't want anyone to go way back in her archives and find how her previous posts conflict with her current beliefs.

[stonefruit]

I really don't think the blog closing is all due to Skylar.

Of course it's not all due to Skylar, but, I mean, Chaviva specifically recommended on FB that people who wanted to know "what sort of evil" others had said should "talk to Skylar or Bethany Shondark Mandel." So I think Skylar's very obviously pointed posts of late, as well as many of her comments on Chaviva's blog, were a not-insignificant factor.