My sister's enounter with a fundie in the doctor's offce

[Kelya]

Like all vaccines, there is the only the hope that it will protect, not the guarantee. This is new. I am uncomfortable with taking something when the long term effects are sketchy. Sorry. End of discussion for me. I might get HPV, but it's more likely that I won't. I have a far better chance of getting seriously injured in a car crash than catching a strain of HPV. Even if you got the vax, the strain you got may have not been protected by it anyway.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm

I'm not he only person on here uncomfortable with this vax yet so I will ignore any future bashing on my choices. I was given info about it and decided against it. The end. It doesn't affect you-my choices that is. I'm not refusing a polio or tdap or mmr vax that would if I caught it. My body, my choices what I put in it. I still have a couple years to change my mind if I want to get it.

1) the science behind vaccines is well proven. there is no "hope" involved.

2) you can be uncomfortable, but the science and results posted on this thread show that you have no real basis except your own discomfort and pseudoscience.

3)77% of cervical cancer is caused by the strains vaccinated for. so you can put that "might" with your "hope."

4) if a few people on an internet message board (mostly linking to shitty "vactruth!" sites) are influential enough backing for your healthcare choices, that's sad and i hope you consult a doctor and some of the actual science links posted here.

5) disagreeing with you and pointing out the fallacies in your reasoning is not "bashing."

6) yes, it is your body and your decision and i don't see anyone saying it isn't, but good on you for railing against the imaginary oppression.

[apple1]

... I might get HPV, but it's more likely that I won't. I have a far better chance of getting seriously injured in a car crash than catching a strain of HPV. Even if you got the vax, the strain you got may have not been protected by it anyway.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm

I'm not he only person on here uncomfortable with this vax yet so I will ignore any future bashing on my choices. I was given info about it and decided against it. The end. It doesn't affect you-my choices that is. I'm not refusing a polio or tdap or mmr vax that would if I caught it. My body, my choices what I put in it. I still have a couple years to change my mind if I want to get it.

I guess I have been seeing disagreement, but you can call it bashing if you want. But yes, it's your choice.

The piece I don't get is your interpretation of the information on the page you linked to (above). You say that it is unlikely that you will get HPV. Your link says

HPV is so common that at least 50% of sexually active men and women get it at some point in their lives.

:?

[Austin]

HPV is so common that at least 50% of sexually active men and women get it at some point in their lives.

Our family physician, before administering the series to our boys, asked them how sexually active they had been. They are very open about such things, and they and she have a relationship going back many years, so she felt confident they would be truthful. The reason she said it was important is because if they had already done a lot of fooling around, it was very possible, if not likely, they may already have contracted HPV, as it is that common. It wouldn't hurt them to get the vaccine even if they had contracted HPV already, but it just would not be of much use.

[apple1]

Our family physician, before administering the series to our boys, asked them how sexually active they had been. They are very open about such things, and they and she have a relationship going back many years, so she felt confident they would be truthful. The reason she said it was important is because if they had already done a lot of fooling around, it was very possible, if not likely, they may already have contracted HPV, as it is that common. It wouldn't hurt them to get the vaccine even if they had contracted HPV already, but it just would not be of much use.

I think it is good for parents of minor children to make it clear to the docs (family practice, pediatrician, gyn, whatever) caring for the minor children that they are OK with frank conversation in the absence of the parent (encouraging honesty- kids even in the most open families may not be comfortable with telling all in the presence of the parent). I also (when my daughters were minors) made it clear to our docs that (even though I strongly recommended to my daughters - and hoped for "deferred sexual activity" and the making of wise decisions) that I approved of my docs being able to prescribe birth control if appropriate.

[snarkykitty]

I have to get a flu/pneumonia shot every year per doctor's advice due to some heath problems I have. It hurts like hell for about 24 hrs, but I'll take that over getting very sick & in the ICU.

The pneumonia vaccine isn't designed for yearly use. Boosters are recommended only after 5-10 years.

[snarkykitty]

Um, do you have kids or work with kids or are you just repeating rumors? Kids who experiment this young have always been around, and they've always been a very small minority of children. (and often they have been sexually abused) It does happen, but very rarely. However, by high school there are more children experimenting, so that's why it is done when it is done- so that they have had the entire series by then, not because they generally start having sex in elementary school.

But I do agree that if a child wants to do something, they will do it- that's why it is important to talk to them about it before it could happen. Let them know the risk, and the consequences, but I think that if you just forbid stuff, they'll go out and figure it out anyway.

My sister is a state social worker (nearly 20 years of experience) who works exclusively with children (17 and under). We just had this conversation 2 weeks ago. I would never be so irresponsible to repeat "rumors" or misinformation based on rumors. But thank you for the concern.

[treemom]

My sister took my youngest niece to the doctor to receive her first round of Gardsil vaccines. While waiting she was having a conversation with a lady sitting next to her. They talked about the importance of the vaccine. My sister then said a woman came up to them and told them that they were turning their daughters into whores by getting them vaccinated. My niece being the smart-mouth that she is said "Ma'am I would rather be called a whore and not die of cancer, than to be stupid like you to believe that shot turns people into something bad." My sister then said "lady just sit down and shut your ignorant mouth and mind your own business." Priceless, simply priceless! :lol: How I wish I could have been there to see that!

Sadly I know a lot of people who are not funny that believe that. Some stupidity transcends fundamentalist.

[treemom]

I got the first two shots myself, declines the third after having bad reactions (and being blown off by the doc). If I have a daughter she will not be getting it.

What about your sons?

[treemom]

My children have always gotten high fevers from their shots and so did I. They weren't all coincidences or unrelated to the vaccines. I didn't report any of this and I don't think that many parents do. Parents know that kids can get fevers from their shots. I'm sure that the number of reactions is much higher than what the CDC lists.

Fevers are a known side effect and don't need to be reported.

[treemom]

I am offering my anecdata to this thread:

I get the flue shot every year and have for a long time, it only protects against a few different strains which are likely to be the big strains in that year. One year I got the flu. I had the really, really scary Cytokine storm and ended up in the hospital. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

I will continue to get the flu shot every year because I believe in the science behind vaccines(although I hate that phrase) and because I am high risk.

My son has received two of the three gardasil series and will be getting the third soon. He passed out at the first one and the nurse practioner we have seen since he was wee seemed concerned about the fact that I might not want to continue the series to which I replied a little vaso-vagal is better than anal warts.

Also, I need a typhoid booster.

[ADoyle90815]

One thing in my case is that when the HPV vaccine became widely available, I was too old to get it. I do get flu shots since I don't have any reactions to it, and a friend of mine died of H1N1 complications who was in her late 20's and healthy at the time.

[alphaeta08]

My sister and I (22 and 20) didn't get the vaccine. My parents figured out it cost $600 and were like, "Uh... no." Same situation with the copper IUD I wanted: it would've been $900 for the IUD, insertion, etc, so that just wasn't gonna happen (although I suspect the IUD refusal was more about controlling my behavior, because they know I'm too cautious to have sex without reliable birth control, and I reeeeally don't want to go back on hormonal birth control for various reasons). If this stuff was totally free, I'd definitely get the IUD, probably get Gardasil. The best part: my mom had a hysterectomy at age 35 due to cervical cancer caused by... HPV! :lol: :roll:

I've never had a flu shot, either, but I've only had the flu a couple times in my life.

[emmiedahl]

To say that vaccination-based immunity is "hope" is just stupid and ignorant. I can say with a high level of certainty that my children will never get polio or small pox because wide-spread immunization has virtually eliminated them. If more people would get on board, we could eradicate a lot of other devastating diseases.

[Wolfie]

My sister is a state social worker (nearly 20 years of experience) who works exclusively with children (17 and under). We just had this conversation 2 weeks ago. I would never be so irresponsible to repeat "rumors" or misinformation based on rumors. But thank you for the concern.

Then your sister is mainly working with children in trouble already. I do not see this sort of thing as common in the children I work with. (which are from many income levels and types of families.)

[apple1]

My sister and I (22 and 20) didn't get the vaccine. My parents figured out it cost $600 and were like, "Uh... no." Same situation with the copper IUD I wanted: it would've been $900 for the IUD, insertion, etc, so that just wasn't gonna happen (although I suspect the IUD refusal was more about controlling my behavior, because they know I'm too cautious to have sex without reliable birth control, and I reeeeally don't want to go back on hormonal birth control for various reasons). If this stuff was totally free, I'd definitely get the IUD, probably get Gardasil. The best part: my mom had a hysterectomy at age 35 due to cervical cancer caused by... HPV! :lol: :roll:

I've never had a flu shot, either, but I've only had the flu a couple times in my life.

If you are either 20 or 22, you are still within the age range currently targeted for the HPV vaccine. If cost is the issue (no insurance or limitations of your parents' insurance), (I don't know where you live) can you check with Planned Parenthood? Maybe you can get it there for minimal cost??

[snarkykitty]

Then your sister is mainly working with children in trouble already. I do not see this sort of thing as common in the children I work with. (which are from many income levels and types of families.)

I didn't say it was "common," but that it happens, and that simply homeschooling/keeping a watchful eye over kids isn't a guarantee that they won't fool around.

[dairyfreelife]

1) the science behind vaccines is well proven. there is no "hope" involved.

2) you can be uncomfortable, but the science and results posted on this thread show that you have no real basis except your own discomfort and pseudoscience.

3)77% of cervical cancer is caused by the strains vaccinated for. so you can put that "might" with your "hope."

4) if a few people on an internet message board (mostly linking to shitty "vactruth!" sites) are influential enough backing for your healthcare choices, that's sad and i hope you consult a doctor and some of the actual science links posted here.

5) disagreeing with you and pointing out the fallacies in your reasoning is not "bashing."

6) yes, it is your body and your decision and i don't see anyone saying it isn't, but good on you for railing against the imaginary oppression.

1-I'm sure I meant that not everyone gets immunity from a vax. That is a fact and why herd immunity is important for pathogens like measles and polio.

2-New vax, lack of long term studies. Pseudoscience-whatever you want to think dear.

3-Cervical cancer is not common and I have a higher risk of other cancers personally thanks to family history.

3- :roll: Yes, I made those choices off of this forum. I used a shitty website to make them and not a pamphlet from my OB/GYN to make the decision. That's exactly what I said-I made the decision to not get the vax based on this forum.

4-Your reasoning isn't sound either. I only said bash because I was not the only person here saying they didn't want it, but I was the one being taken down because I was not comfortable yet with it. In a couple years I may change my mind. My insurance right now wouldn't pay for it anyway. I have three years before I cannot get it anymore and I am not sexually active at the moment. If I get a boyfriend, I may change my mind. You haven't read my former posts here obviously.

5-Yes, saying it's my body and my decision means I am railing against an imagined oppression. Okay, whatever.

To say that vaccination-based immunity is "hope" is just stupid and ignorant. I can say with a high level of certainty that my children will never get polio or small pox because wide-spread immunization has virtually eliminated them. If more people would get on board, we could eradicate a lot of other devastating diseases.

Lol, I'm ignorant, but you think your children will never get smallpox. Still exists. None of the populace under the age of 40 has been vaccinated against smallpox. Polio is unlikely, but that is a airborne and once very common ailment. Immunity is not always guaranteed, but unlike polio, if immunity is not there you could still get it from direct sexual contact. Perhaps a herd immuniy could eradicate it eventually, but that will proabaly take a long time.

Also, yes, 50% of people get HPV, but as the CDC website says, 90% of those go away on their own. It's only a few strains that can cause cancer and a couple of those can be prevented if you get immunity (most do) from a vax. Gardisil can help genital warts too, I believe, but the HPV that causes warts is not the same that causes cancer.

[treemom]

"Lol, I'm ignorant, but you think your children will never get smallpox. Still exists. None of the populace under the age of 40 has been vaccinated against smallpox. Polio is unlikely, but that is a airborne and once very common ailment. Immunity is not always guaranteed, but unlike polio, if immunity is not there you could still get it from direct sexual contact. Perhaps a herd immuniy could eradicate it eventually, but that will proabaly take a long time. "

Smallpox has not been seen in the wild since before I was born. It only exists in a lab now,

[emmiedahl]

Lol, I'm ignorant, but you think your children will never get smallpox. Still exists.

The last naturally occurring case of smallpox was in 1977. So, yeah, you are still ignorant.

[Knight of Ni]

The reason why nobody under 40 has been vaccinated for smallpox is because it's now unnecessary. Smallpox remains the only illness that has been successfully eradicated. It was eradicated because it was required to receive the vaccine. It was eradicated in the 1970s. The only live samples of smallpox are kept at the CDC and a lab in Russia. Smallpox was the first vaccine ever developed and vaccines have since saved the lives of untold millions of people that would have gotten sick and died of terrible diseases. If the same amount of people received other vaccines as they did with smallpox many other diseases may be eradicated as well.

[alphaeta08]

If you are either 20 or 22, you are still within the age range currently targeted for the HPV vaccine. If cost is the issue (no insurance or limitations of your parents' insurance), (I don't know where you live) can you check with Planned Parenthood? Maybe you can get it there for minimal cost??

Thanks, I'll probably look into it sooner or later! Our insurance is just crap, so I'll probably be in better shape when I get a real job and get off my parents' insurance, which I'm kind of too old for anyway. :oops:

[Guest Anonymous]

Apparently Merck has a financial plan for those who can't afford Gardasil and other vaccines, Here's the link:

http://www.merck.com/merckhelps/vaccines/qualify.html

[fluttershies]

They are, if you get them according to schedule or before you're 18. The Vaccines for Children program assures that. Here's a link, its one of my favorite programs. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vf ... efault.htm

If you're indigent, your local public health department may have clinics. If you're insured, your insurance should (and may have to, I forget) cover the necessary adult boosters. Pregnant women on Medicaid have free vaccination access. Vaccine clinics for things like h1n1 and the seasonal flu are often free or low cost. Your doctor or public health commission should have more information on where you can access free vaccines- but it is important to note that free vaccines only have the vaccine as being free, the administration of the vaccine can cost, but there are state regulations about how much the fees can cost and they usually hover around 15 dollars.

I'm in the UK and relying on the NHS so I would have to pay £400 for the full program of shots (as I'm over 18) unfortunately.

Edited to add that the NHS HPV vaccine program targets 14 and 15 year olds so they have the vaccine before they reach the age of consent (which is 16 in the UK). The catch-up age range ends at 18, and I'm 23 so I don't count.

[dairyfreelife]

The last naturally occurring case of smallpox was in 1977. So, yeah, you are still ignorant.

No, that was told to me by a professor so he was wrong. Didn't think to double check every word they say since I thought a science teacher would know. My fault for not looking it up to check that. And it does exist in labs still. Bioterrorism is always a possibility as well. Point being that if someone did that, young people like myself and your children would be in trouble. Before I am likely thought of as ignorant and paranoid on that-the CDC talks about defense mechanisms against bioterrorism for smallpox.

If a person is old enough and wants to get the vax for HPV, fine. Get it. If they don't, fine. There is not a widespread illness of cancer causing HPV happening so it's up to each person and parent for minors to make the decision on their own to get it. I really don't know why my decision against getting it right now after discussing it with my doctor bothers so many of you. It's getting ridiculous and almost comical. Yeah, this needs to end so I have said my peace and will move out of this thread.

[emmiedahl]

The only way to build up a tolerance to small pox is to be immunized or to actually have it, with around a 50% chance of death. So we are no more at risk than prior generations.