Secular parents - teaching about religion

[Sinister Rouge]

This isn't exactly snark, so feel free to move it if need be. I need to wrack some Free Jinger brains for a sec!

I've been wondering how secular parents have addressed the religion thing with their kids. I guess I'd be considered an atheist - I'm spiritual, but I absolutely do not believe in a God/gods - and I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old. I've been blindsided a couple of times reading new books to them and suddenly God is mentioned and I'm like "oh dear... where do I go with this?" It's not that I have a problem talking to them about God, it's more like we'll be reading a nice story and suddenly it will say something like "your mommy and daddy are so happy that God gave you to them" or "and God made all the beautiful flowers!" and I have to do some quick editing. I mean, I don't want to force my beliefs on my kids, but at the same time it's such a complex issue that I don't really know how to go about it and I don't want to totally confuse them, you know? I try and teach them some of the Christian traditions and ideas (eg. at Christmas, we celebrate the traditional and pagan roots of Christmas, but this year I read them the Christian story too and told them "this is what some people believe, and this is why Christmas is special for them" - we do similar things for ramadan and hannukah and stuff) so my eldest at least has some idea of what "god" is. Any recommendations for resources or ideas?

[Witsec7]

UU is how we handled it. Good broad religious education, inclusive values and fun stuff for the kids to do all the way into their teens.

[Sydney Fox]

This isn't exactly snark, so feel free to move it if need be. I need to wrack some Free Jinger brains for a sec!

I've been wondering how secular parents have addressed the religion thing with their kids. I guess I'd be considered an atheist - I'm spiritual, but I absolutely do not believe in a God/gods - and I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old. I've been blindsided a couple of times reading new books to them and suddenly God is mentioned and I'm like "oh dear... where do I go with this?" It's not that I have a problem talking to them about God, it's more like we'll be reading a nice story and suddenly it will say something like "your mommy and daddy are so happy that God gave you to them" or "and God made all the beautiful flowers!" and I have to do some quick editing. I mean, I don't want to force my beliefs on my kids, but at the same time it's such a complex issue that I don't really know how to go about it and I don't want to totally confuse them, you know? I try and teach them some of the Christian traditions and ideas (eg. at Christmas, we celebrate the traditional and pagan roots of Christmas, but this year I read them the Christian story too and told them "this is what some people believe, and this is why Christmas is special for them" - we do similar things for ramadan and hannukah and stuff) so my eldest at least has some idea of what "god" is. Any recommendations for resources or ideas?

We have various books on world religions that my older daughter (age 13) reads. Sometimes she asks questions, or we discuss the different religions. We have also read a story bible so that she understands biblical allegories in the literature she reads.

We just got the Usborne book on World Religions and DD has enjoyed it. It may be a bit old for your kids though. Sorry I can't be more help.

-----------------------

Edited because I really do know how to spell sorry.

[emmiedahl]

I have heard this book recommended by many atheist friends http://www.amazon.com/Maybe-Yes-No-Guid ... gy_b_img_b

Our library has this book http://www.amazon.com/What-Do-You-Belie ... =pd_cp_b_3 and my kids really enjoyed it. It just gives a comparative look at different religions. It would be good if you are just looking for a way to introduce them to the concept that some people have a religion, this is what religions believe about life.

There are several books in a series called something like "The Universe Tells Our Story" by Jennifer Morgan that explain complicated issues regarding the Earth's origin. These are great for preparing children to deal with "I don't believe we came from monkeys!!!" once they are in school and explains scientific origins of the universe in a way kids can understand.

[MollySee]

My dad is Catholic and my mom is Jewish, we really never had any religious education but my mom basically said "People believe in different things, some people believe that God made the earth and people, and others don't. I believe in taking care of other people, loving everyone, and not being a jerk. also I believe in food. food is very important. and delicious"

lol. I'm paraphrasing here, but you get the gist! She also told us that we could believe whatever we wanted, and that she would still love us.

[valsa]

my mom basically said "People believe in different things, some people believe that God made the earth and people, and others don't. I believe in taking care of other people, loving everyone, and not being a jerk. also I believe in food. food is very important. and delicious".

I don't have kids yet but this is basically what I'm planning. I'll teach them about different religious beliefs but, as an atheist, I don't plan on giving religion any more weight than any other subject where people have lots of different views from each other and myself.

[ZTwist]

Agree that UU may be the way to go. DH and I were raised Presbyterian, so that's a different situation than yours, but until we had kids who were toddlers, we didn't even think about church, much less go there.

We joined a Quaker meeting; very inclusive and they won't force anything down your throat. Some Quakers don't even consider themselves Christian.

I love it for the sense of community. When my kids come to meeting they know they are accepted and cared for as if by a large extended family.

[crassy]

I am an anti-theist and I approach religion with my child from a purely mythological standpoint. The same way I teach her about ancient Roman or Greek gods is the same way I teach her about the current gods people believe in. I preface it with 'Some people believe this...'

I think it is important for my daughter to know what people believe, but to also think critically about it. I don't believe in keeping information from her, I want her to know everything.

We also play a game called 'real or not real', where I ask her questions and she tells me if she thinks they are real or not. If she says something is real (even if it is), I ask her how she has come to this conclusion. Usually the answer involves the senses. If the answer is 'because X told me it is real', I ask her why she accepts that as true. I think it is very important that she be able to make up her own mind and learn to think.

Hope this helps!

[Witsec7]

Agree that UU may be the way to go. DH and I were raised Presbyterian, so that's a different situation than yours, but until we had kids who were toddlers, we didn't even think about church, much less go there.

We joined a Quaker meeting; very inclusive and they won't force anything down your throat. Some Quakers don't even consider themselves Christian.

I love it for the sense of community. When my kids come to meeting they know they are accepted and cared for as if by a large extended family.

I had checked out the Quakers here in town when we moved, DD was 6. Ours are evangelical and you must accept the Jman as your lord and savior. So I checked them off the list. My MIL was a UU (her family were Millerites who later became UU) and we had some exposure to them in CA. I also worked with a bunch of atheist scientists who also belonged to the UU. Thats how we settled in, but I wound up teaching sunday school for over six years.

[chiccy]

UU is how we handled it. Good broad religious education, inclusive values and fun stuff for the kids to do all the way into their teens.

Experiencedd, could you say more about UU? I've been intrigued by it for awhile and am thinking of converting and/or raising my kids that way. What is the religious education for kids like? Does it include Judeo-Christian theology and the Bible (and are these included in services)? What sorts of values do they emphasize, and, of course, what's the "fun stuff"? I know most of this is Googleable but I'm interested in your experience.

Also, I think this thread should be in Chatter, maybe.

[Didi]

I thought this article was interesting and recommends a lot of different books - http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... ation.html

[ZTwist]

I had checked out the Quakers here in town when we moved, DD was 6. Ours are evangelical and you must accept the Jman as your lord and savior. So I checked them off the list. My MIL was a UU (her family were Millerites who later became UU) and we had some exposure to them in CA. I also worked with a bunch of atheist scientists who also belonged to the UU. Thats how we settled in, but I wound up teaching sunday school for over six years.

Yes, I probably should have mentioned that we live on the east coast, and that while Quakers here are very liberal, that may not be true in other parts of the country. It depends on where the OP lives.

[Conuly]

Although I'm not the parent, I *am* the one who's bought all the books in the house (because I buy so many nobody else sees the need), and at that age I handled it by pre-reading every book before I bought it. If I thought a book was going to deal with a concept I didn't want to talk about or that their parents wouldn't want to handle, I didn't buy it or take it out of the library. Most picture books for that age level are only 32 pages.

With that said, no matter how hard you try, these conversations will come up. My sister and brother-in-law said I could tell the nieces "whatever I like" about God, so I absolutely *did* that, using various refrains like "SOME people believe in God, but *I* don't because everything they say God did can be explained without using him" and "Lots of people believe in Santa, too, but the story doesn't make much more sense, does it?" and so on as needed.

They've also had plenty of exposure to myths from other religions. They're bright kids, they can draw their own conclusions when told various people had/have totally conflicting beliefs about deities, all on about the same amount of evidence.

Mind, the younger niece is still totally fascinated with the concept of the start of the universe. She can't get her mind around it. She reasoned for herself that "God started everything" is a fairly illogical concept (because, after all, who made God? Those were HER thoughts, I didn't plant them there!) but she still can't figure it out. I told her that she's not alone, but she's convinced she's going to grow up and be THE one to figure it out. She also intends to be a cook who gives all her food to the poor (her sister's idea) and be a supreme court justice... AFTER being president.

[valsa]

She reasoned for herself that "God started everything" is a fairly illogical concept (because, after all, who made God? Those were HER thoughts, I didn't plant them there!) but she still can't figure it out. I told her that she's not alone, but she's convinced she's going to grow up and be THE one to figure it out. She also intends to be a cook who gives all her food to the poor (her sister's idea) and be a supreme court justice... AFTER being president.

I'd vote for her. She's obviously got more common sense than anyone gunning for the Republican nomination right now.

[emmiedahl]

Experiencedd, could you say more about UU? I've been intrigued by it for awhile and am thinking of converting and/or raising my kids that way. What is the religious education for kids like? Does it include Judeo-Christian theology and the Bible (and are these included in services)? What sorts of values do they emphasize, and, of course, what's the "fun stuff"? I know most of this is Googleable but I'm interested in your experience.

Also, I think this thread should be in Chatter, maybe.

I know this was not addressed to me, but I'll throw in my experience. We go occasionally to a UU church. The sermons are mainly about morality, promoting various liberal causes and social justice. The people are all really funny and nice, and many have abandoned other religions because they were too extreme, not gay-positive, etc.

The children's classes teach about all religions with an emphasis on what is common. They also learn about how to be peace makers, how to listen to others, etc. My children and I identify as Jewish and this has never been a problem. It is a really warm and comfortable community. I wish there were more families, most of the people are older. But we still enjoy it.

It's not like a religion, and that makes my husband less comfortable. He likes more rules and structure.

[chiccy]

I know this was not addressed to me, but I'll throw in my experience. We go occasionally to a UU church. The sermons are mainly about morality, promoting various liberal causes and social justice. The people are all really funny and nice, and many have abandoned other religions because they were too extreme, not gay-positive, etc.

The children's classes teach about all religions with an emphasis on what is common. They also learn about how to be peace makers, how to listen to others, etc. My children and I identify as Jewish and this has never been a problem. It is a really warm and comfortable community. I wish there were more families, most of the people are older. But we still enjoy it.

It's not like a religion, and that makes my husband less comfortable. He likes more rules and structure.

Thanks, Emmiedahl. This is interesting. I'm still curious about how much the Bible comes up in sermons and religious education. I want my kids to learn the Bible because it's very useful in the study of literature, and very beautifully literary itself in places. Also, is Jesus mentioned in a typical service? Or is this taboo because it might offend some of the congregants?

When I read the UU Wikipedia it seemed like they had a pretty distinct theology of Jesus; that he was slightly less than divine but still above other humans, or something. It seemed he was at least pretty important to the religion. Maybe, as in Quakerism, that depends on the congregation. What has your experience been?

[emmiedahl]

I have heard mention of the Bible only rarely. They also quote Gandhi, HHDL, and MLK Jr. I have only been going for a few months and only occasionally. They seem to think Jesus was a nice guy, but nothing more.

If I had to sum it up, it is like a faith smorgasbord. Everyone's 'plate' of belief looks a little different even though it came from the same 'buffet', but they do it together and have a fun time at it. The teachers tell the children the most salient things from all faiths and encourage them to believe what makes sense to them and obey rules that make them better people while respecting other people's choices.

[2xx1xy1JD]

"Some people believe.." or "People who follow religion X believe..." would seem to cover it.

The issue also comes up for religious parents when explaining other religious beliefs. When she was almost 8, my daughter suddenly asked me, "mom, what's a jesus?" It was the first time that she had gone to camp on the Italian side of town instead of the Jewish side.

I also remember my high school English teacher giving us a very basic run-down of Christian theology so that we could understand Shakespeare.

[Witsec7]

I'm going with Emmie. For the older kids group discussions include valuing individuals, and contraception :shock: And if you are the parent of a teen and your child is going on an over night you will be given the option of them sleeping in a coed lodge or sex segregated. Our fellowship was about peace, inclusion, social justice, stewardship of the earth and acts. Labor Day and May Day were days we had services, and we had a silent vigil every Veterans day. Women ministers are common, and so are out gay kids and parents, if your lucky there will be transpeople too. I taught death customs to prK and K kids. The older kids visited our Mosque in town and our local Iman delivers one sermon a year at the fellowship so do ministers of other (liberal) faiths.

I was new in town, living rurally, I wanted to meet liberals, my DD was in school with a bunch of born again hick kids, she needed an inclusion, esp when the kids all talked about their sunday school. After going to UU she would wow them and tell them they went to the local Mikvah or Mosque. UU is a supportive and respectful community made up of people holding diverse religious beliefs. If you are looking for dogma and ritual you won't find it at UU. The closest they come to ritual is a flower communion and weekly candle lightings.

Regarding the bible, its mentioned infrequently, more likely you'll get a reading from Emerson, Thich nhat Hanh or May Sarton. My DD did recite from Luke when she was the Angel Gabriel one year in the Xmas show.

[valsa]

If I ever do go to a church, it'll be a UU church. Unfortunately, the nearest one to my house is two towns over. When I have kids I'd like to go to one just for the social aspect but sometimes you have to be careful. Certain churches have a more Christian-heavy presence than others.

[Maude]

Thanks, Emmiedahl. This is interesting. I'm still curious about how much the Bible comes up in sermons and religious education. I want my kids to learn the Bible because it's very useful in the study of literature, and very beautifully literary itself in places. Also, is Jesus mentioned in a typical service? Or is this taboo because it might offend some of the congregants?

When I read the UU Wikipedia it seemed like they had a pretty distinct theology of Jesus; that he was slightly less than divine but still above other humans, or something. It seemed he was at least pretty important to the religion. Maybe, as in Quakerism, that depends on the congregation. What has your experience been?

The focus of a UU church can vary from congregation to congregation. My own church is situated in an area where most people are at least nominally Christian, so our focus is more in that direction. You'll likely find more variation where there's more cultural diversity. Nevertheless, all the major religions are mentioned, and upheld as valid spiritual paths, atheism and agnosticism included. Beliefs about Jesus vary, though I find the general consensus is that he was a man, a Rabbi, a revolutionary we continue to uphold as an inspiration. The bible is viewed in much the same way - myth intermingled with bits of history, fallible and subject to the times.

[Tempehst]

This is one of the few topics my husband and I don't quite agree on in regards to our children. He is a positive atheist and against teaching the kids anything about religion--even just from a "some people believe this, others believe that." He was raised fairly religious (well, for a Finn) and is still very irritated by the fact he was threatened with hell and that sort of thing. I, on the other hand, was raised a religious in the bible belt so I had a lot of other kids trying to convert me at recess and consider myself to be more of a negative atheist. But I do think it's important that our kids learn about the major religions in the world (almost typed all...that would take a lot of learning!) and Christianity specifically simply because it's culturally important. Even if we aren't religious, we're ethnic Christians and celebrate Christmas and Easter and some of the more minor holidays like Whitesun or St. Martins Day if we're in Germany.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I'm glad you started this topic. My kiddo is 6 and we've kind of skirted around the issue of religion so far, but now that she's in school with a lot of xtians, I've been trying to think of ways to introduce it to her. My fear thus far has been that she will glob on to whatever religion she is taught first because she is a very fanciful child and doesn't so much have the critical thinking skills I would like her to have before getting into all of this...

I have flirted with the idea of UU. We have one and I want to attend a service or two alone, first. But I can't get the anti-church thing out of my head. Churches are buildings I avoid like the plague, probably due to the exposure of utter nonsense I have endured at them. It's tough to imagine myself voluntarily attending one!

I would never make my child feel badly for choosing her own path, but I'd be lying if I said I'd be okay with her becoming religious. I realize this is my issue and again, I would not force my ways on her and I will love and accept her no matter what, even while dying a little bit on the inside. Ugh, I hate sounding like the anti-gay parents, even if my opinions are based on logic, reason, and facts instead of bigotry.

ETA- Chiccy, UU's official site will probably give you more to go on than Wiki. You can also search for locations in your area.

[clibbyjo]

Hopping on the UU bandwagon. If you want a non religious church service and your kids exposed to all religions, then the UU is your place. The older kids also do fieldtrips to different places of worship. I used to be very involved in the social stuff,but not the actual church services. Many of my friends are still very involved, one just started the CUUPS (Pagan UU's) group at the one closest to us.

I believe there is a grade they do learn just bible stuff. You can look at their curriculum on-line and see what each grade is doing. Also, check the local bulletin on-line,ours list the service topics and everything going on for a month. You might want to try something like a "family game night" or go see a speaker or something if you don't want to try a service first. I have taught Roots and Shoots, helped run the UU kids summer camp for several years, attended a raw foods cooking class,tons of potlucks, and tons of social action things without going to services.

[chiccy]

I would never make my child feel badly for choosing her own path, but I'd be lying if I said I'd be okay with her becoming religious. I realize this is my issue and again, I would not force my ways on her and I will love and accept her no matter what, even while dying a little bit on the inside. Ugh, I hate sounding like the anti-gay parents, even if my opinions are based on logic, reason, and facts instead of bigotry.

Thanks for the link. I just want to say major props for this comment^...I love it when people apply their beliefs consistently. Some of the anti-gay parents are probably convinced they're using logic and reason, too ("If man and man were meant to be together, their sexual organs would fit together" and that kind of crap). Not that they're right.