C Jane - unassisted homebirth - thoughts?

[Jessica]

blog.cjanerun.com

[emmiedahl]

I had a tear requiring surgery (I am assuming that is fourth degree?) without an episiotomy. And I invite whoever posted otherwise to educate herself about the fight to end fistulas, which are very common in countries where women do not receive medical intervention at births. There is a reason they are more common in home-birthing countries than in hospital-birthing countries AND THE REASON IS NOT EPISIOTOMIES OR INTERVENTION. You can start here http://www.endfistula.org/public/pid/7435

eta a quote from actual people who actually know shit about birth

Fistula occurs when emergency obstetric care is not available to women who develop complications during childbirth. This is why women living in remote rural areas with little access to medical care are at risk. Before the medical advances of the 20th Century, fistula was quite common in Europe and the United States. Today, fistula is almost unheard of in high-income countries, or in countries where obstetric care is widely available.

[Arielkay]

Thanks, Jessica. And I agree with you totally emmiedahl. I just don't get all this backlash against doctors. Sure, some are going to be jerks, but it's not like all midwives are all sunshine and roses. There are too many things that could go wrong to have a baby anywhere other than the hospital, in my opinion. Of course people can decide to do what is right for them. But I can't imagine wanting to give birth without the safety measures of a hospital in place, if I had a hospital available. I imagine many women in third world countries would love to have the opportunities at medical care that we do. The good old days weren't always good. I'm not sure why we romanticize the past so much.

[Arielkay]

I just saw her blog. OMG, you guys were not kidding. Presenting herself as the mother of God? And all those pictures of herself - does she have a professional airbrushed photo taken of her every single month? Good grief.

[eohiken]

Yes fistulas happen very often in countries where women have no access to necessary interventions, but major maternal injuries also happen in North America, it's just that we're told to shut up and be happy our babies are healthy and go through the reconstructive surgery. Women are not allowed to be unhappy with their birth experience (again, I'm not talking about incidentals, that hyperbole is getting old) because "no experience is worth as much as a healthy baby". There are still docs in practice today that slip the scissors one blade in each the vag and rectum and snip. Women are treated poorly by OB/GYNs and hospital staff, and often it's completely unnecessary, but it is the current culture of hospital birth.

This is a great article about hospitals in MIchigan that reduced their c/s rate to 7% (without increasing mortality OR morbidity) simply by reducing the use of labour inhancing drugs.

http://www.advisory.com/Daily-Briefing/ ... c-sections

If I can find the article about the differences in c/s rates in different styles of OB practice (group vs private), I'll post that too. It's not just urban myth that docs get impatient with labour and use drugs and c/s to their own convenience.

[emmiedahl]

Very long labors can cause fistulas and fetal death, which is why various organizations are trying to improve the fistula situation in home-birthing countries by offering reparative surgeries and also improving access to hospital birth. Saying that episiotomies cause fistulas is just irresponsible and completely out of touch with fact.

I am of the thought that if the only way to get baby out alive is to perform extreme interventions on mom, then, yeah, be happy your baby is healthy and alive. Should I be bitter about the interventions that saved my life and that of my child? Maybe I wish the births had been easier, but I am damn grateful for the interventions.

[Kitten]

every decision is laced with the deadbaby threat when it's simply not the case

I'd love to see something other than anecdotal evidence or your opinion for this. I never had anyone use this on me - every decision that needed to be made was explained from a medical standpoint, and discussed thoroughly, with time for questions. No decision I made was under duress, nor were any of my decisions countermanded.

On the other hand, I didn't come to pregnancy and childbirth in a state of total ignorance. Long before the Internet, I read books and did my research - I knew how things were "supposed" to happen, I knew what my options were, and I discussed all this with my doctor LONG BEFORE I entered my ninth month.

I don't trust doctors blindly. They do make mistakes, and they have made mistakes with members of my family. But neither do I automatically assume the worst of them. They can only do so much - when they are confronted with ignorant people in an emergency situation, they may have to make decisions quickly based on their knowledge and experience. That's why you go to a doctor in the first place.

Doctors are just like any trained professional you trust to do a job you don't feel qualified or competent to perform. If you want to hire the neighbor kid to repair your car, that's your choice. But when the brakes go out at the top of the hill, do you blame the kid, or do you blame yourself for hiring someone without the proper qualifications or training? Hey, I bet he fixed a hundred cars over the last five years without problems! Too bad you're the exception.

You want to believe ALL medical personnel are out to perform as many medical procedures as they can on you, in some kind of Frankensteinish obsession, or that they want to make their lives easier by performing medical procedures so they can go play golf instead of waiting for you to dilate -- fine, go ahead and believe that. Nothing I can say is going to change your opinions.

But I'll never agree with you.

[formergothardite]

That wasn't hyperbole that I was using I have really read on MDC people complain about their horrible birth experiences and it was stuff like that. Or there was the one where the woman had a quick labor and didn't get to do all the stuff she had planned and acted like it was just the worst thing ever. Stuff like that where people didn't get the magical experience they expected or things didn't turn out perfect and they had to have interventions to save the baby and they carry on like their life has been ruined annoys me to no end.

[ilovetchotchkes]

That wasn't hyperbole that I was using I have really read on MDC people complain about their horrible birth experiences and it was stuff like that. Or there was the one where the woman had a quick labor and didn't get to do all the stuff she had planned and acted like it was just the worst thing ever. Stuff like that where people didn't get the magical experience they expected or things didn't turn out perfect and they had to have interventions to save the baby and they carry on like their life has been ruined annoys me to no end.

OMG my birth totally TOTALLY did not go as planned. And when I posted about it? I was told that "you get the hospital ticket you buy the hospital ride" and how I basically FAILED at natural birth. I had pretty much every intervention I did not want short of a c-section, however, HOWEVER, now almost 2 years later? I'm OK with it. I am! I have an amazing son ,who is my hearts delight and my practitioner basically told me that there was nothing I could have done, and that next time will be easier because of how my son was positioned the first time. And that if I could get him out vaginally in 6 pushes with an epidural and how he was positioned, then I could push a 12lber out if I had to! My midwife AND I got blamed for what happened when really? it was how my stubborn child decided to position his face and head! I did some reading recently and felt better about my birth despite the haters, because apparently some 75-80% of women with the baby positioned like mine was, have c-sections. (my hugest phobia is major surgery, i need a xanax to have a tooth filled.)

[Wolfie]

Yes fistulas happen very often in countries where women have no access to necessary interventions, but major maternal injuries also happen in North America

Yes, because GIVING BIRTH IS DANGEROUS. It may be natural, but so are heart attacks. Just because something is a natural process does not mean that it's always safe.

I'd rather be someplace where they can treat me right away if I start hemmorraging or have a different maternal injury. And you know, I'd probably be dead if it weren't for medical intervention, and if my mom had survived, she'd probably have died with my next sibling. The third one of us was the only one that went "normally."

[skankbiscuit]

No. words.

I know a few women like this -- the "drop 'em in the field at lunchtime, then finish the plowing by dinner" types -- and all I can say is "To each their own." :roll:

And that is the butt-ugliest Christmas tree I have seen in a while. Or maybe it's just the photography. :lol:

I gave birth to my MIL's 39th and 44th grandchildren (devout LDS family) She now has over 60 grandchildren from 11 children (one of which is gay, so none from him)

[haveapicniclife]

OMG my birth totally TOTALLY did not go as planned. And when I posted about it? I was told that "you get the hospital ticket you buy the hospital ride" and how I basically FAILED at natural birth.

And this is why I hate mothering.com and all of the seriously die hard advocates for "natural" births. Because no matter what you say, they will have some come back for you that clearly states it's YOUR fault. I had some of these "ladies" on my expecting board and even now I have them on facebook. They run circles around new moms like rabid dogs, tearing them down for their birth choices or for having trouble breastfeeding. Reasoning with them is like talking to a wall.

[Bella99]

We don't always get the trip we planned when we book it. I didn't when we started trying to have a baby when I was 34 - it took more than 2 years, too many professionals and 28K (thankfully at the time infertility coverage existed for most of it) to conceive Her Maj. The first month of nursing after a (necessary for MY health) caesarian with a constantly hungry breast barnacle (who had decided bottles were for losers) was pretty much miserable. Eight years later I have a brilliant, gorgeous daughter who already knows that the Nile is a river in Egypt and I'm at peace with the whole deal.

And anyone who tells new moms that breastfeeding shouldn't hurt and that it may suck (literally) when your baby is going through growth spurts and your body has to keep up is leading them down the garden path. I used to call Her Maj "Jaws" and I swear I didn't sleep for more than two hours the first month. Wish someone had warned me about that ahead of time.

[ilovetchotchkes]

We don't always get the trip we planned when we book it. I didn't when we started trying to have a baby when I was 34 - it took more than 2 years, too many professionals and 28K (thankfully at the time infertility coverage existed for most of it) to conceive Her Maj. The first month of nursing after a (necessary for MY health) caesarian with a constantly hungry breast barnacle (who had decided bottles were for losers) was pretty much miserable. Eight years later I have a brilliant, gorgeous daughter who already knows that the Nile is a river in Egypt and I'm at peace with the whole deal.

And anyone who tells new moms that breastfeeding shouldn't hurt and that it may suck (literally) when your baby is going through growth spurts and your body has to keep up is leading them down the garden path. I used to call Her Maj "Jaws" and I swear I didn't sleep for more than two hours the first month. Wish someone had warned me about that ahead of time.

Oh no, *laughs* oh no. One of my friends from college pulled me aside when I was pregnant with my son and said "look, i'm going to lay it out for you straight, no bullshit, for the first few weeks, nursing SUCKS so hard its not even funny, you're going to be sore as shit, and you're not going to get any sleep. I'm just warning you. " And she was the type to nurse through toddlerhood.

She was right. And i was prepared, and just dealt until things got better. Had things NOT gotten better, I would have gotten help, but it did get better.

My cousin stopped breastfeeding because she was told it wouldn't or shouldn't hurt at all. After 3 days of it hurting, she gave up completely thinking there was something wrong. :( However, both of her girls are healthy, happy and AWESOME.

[emmiedahl]

My cousin stopped breastfeeding because she was told it wouldn't or shouldn't hurt at all. After 3 days of it hurting, she gave up completely thinking there was something wrong. :( However, both of her girls are healthy, happy and AWESOME.

WAY too many women are told it should not cause discomfort. A lactation consultant told me this in the hospital when I had my fifth. It has always hurt like crazy the first week or so. Before my sister had her first, I sat her down and gave her the home truths--I even showed her my stretch marks because everyone was telling her they would go away! Um, no, they do not go completely away, and no one should feel bad that they don't. There are so many lies, and things that women don't get told that they need to know about, like the postpartum weepiness and the difficulty with bladder control for the first few days. We deserve to know this stuff! No one should be sleep deprived and overwhelmed and then on top of it be wondering wtf is going on with their body.

[Jessica]

I had a very highly-recommended lactation consultant tell me "Huh, well, you're holding him right and his latch is good. I don't know why you're hurting so much". At about 8 weeks I found out it was THRUSH, finally got some antibiotics after trying every natural remedy I could, they ran out so it came back, I begged for more medicine but my midwife couldn't prescribe more so it came back full force, I saw a different midwife and she thought it was mastitis so she prescribed antibiotics which just makes thrush flourish, so it got even worse. Finally got more diflucan, had it alllllmost gone, ran out again, so I got some yeast cleanse and grapefruit seed extract and knocked it out myself after 5 1/2 months of dealing with it.

So ladies... If you feel like there is flaming barbed wire being pulled out from your nipples every time you breastfeed, demand diflucan.

[emmiedahl]

Yes, we had thrush with one and it was the worst pain I have ever felt--worse than labor even.

[VeraAnne]

I thought I'd add that a tongue tie can make things seriously painful as well. My daughter could barely nurse and when she tried it was hell on Earth for me. Turns out she was tongue tied. A quick snip fixed everything, and she nursed problem free for 18 months.

Edit: A quick snip from an ENT doctor. Didn't want anyone to think I just went in with knife or something myself.

[Guest Anonymous]

So ladies... If you feel like there is flaming barbed wire being pulled out from your nipples every time you breastfeed, demand diflucan.

I appreciate the information (no snark) but as someone who is starting to think about having a baby, you're scaring the hell out of me. I just grabbed my boobs protectively and recoiled from my computer in horror. :o

[StarrieEyedKat]

I appreciate the information (no snark) but as someone who is starting to think about having a baby, you're scaring the hell out of me. I just grabbed my boobs protectively and recoiled from my computer in horror. :o

I went through two pregnancies before my friend had her first, and told her every horrible detail, both pregnancy and new baby wise. She just had hers and she was very grateful that she knew about all the crap before hand, because it is NOT the walk in the park that some people make it out to be.

Funny enough, as soon as you have the baby, you forget just how awful it was and think you can do it again, no problem!

[Lily]

I went through two pregnancies before my friend had her first, and told her every horrible detail, both pregnancy and new baby wise. She just had hers and she was very grateful that she knew about all the crap before hand, because it is NOT the walk in the park that some people make it out to be.

Funny enough, as soon as you have the baby, you forget just how awful it was and think you can do it again, no problem!

And not everyone has trouble or an awful time. The positive and easier experiences need to be told too, lest people think everyone's experiences are and have to be miserable.

[StarrieEyedKat]

And not everyone has trouble or an awful time. The positive and easier experiences need to be told too, lest people think everyone's experiences are and have to be miserable.

Of course I would never say that everyone has a troublesome or awful pregnancy. But most women don't talk publicly about the dirty little details like discharge, random aches and pains and all the other lovely effects that most pregnant women experience. My first labor was a nightmare, but my second was a walk in the park. I shared details about both of them, so that my friend would have an idea of what could happen.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I appreciate the information (no snark) but as someone who is starting to think about having a baby, you're scaring the hell out of me. I just grabbed my boobs protectively and recoiled from my computer in horror. :o

I breastfed quite easily, and the reason I was so horrifically sore was that i had flat nipples. I anticipate that with thing#2 its not going to be AS much of an issue.

[Jessica]

I appreciate the information (no snark) but as someone who is starting to think about having a baby, you're scaring the hell out of me. I just grabbed my boobs protectively and recoiled from my computer in horror. :o

I tell you this now so you don't have to wait 2 months to even know what it is so you can get medication for it. Seriously, 5 1/2 months to deal with it is RIDICULOUS!!!

[skankbiscuit]

baby #1 breastfeeding was an ordeal, ended up with a breast absess, 105.2 fever, etc. Stopped trying and happily fed my child formula. She is almost 9 and is super attached, brilliant, etc etc. :lol:

baby #2 latched on perfectly from the get-go, pain-free, and he nursed for 3 years....

Point is, every kiddo is different, and we all do our best...the love you show for them everyday is the most important thing. I promise. I am far enough away from all that (kids are almost 9 and almost 6) I can see that there is really no difference between the 2 of them in attachment, happiness, intelligence, etc.