C Jane - unassisted homebirth - thoughts?

[buddingmedievalist]

OK - I feel so much better that others noticed the strange sexual overtones of the labor experience! I thought I just picked that up because I am a freak, lol

Yup, me too. It made me feel very squicky

[ChunkyBarbie]

So typically CJane...the pic at the top is the best part. It looks like CJ is Mary and her baby is Jesus. Nice.

Holy crap! I just saw that pic. WTF goes through someone's mind that they post a picture like that? Conceited much?

[Bella99]

I am one of the women who actually recovered from vulvadynia (surgery did not work, an extended low oxalite diet did). When I finally conceived via in vitro, I knew a caesarian was in my best interests. When I called the doctor I was referred to he took my call personally regarding some questions re: my cervical surgery many years previously (my old doc was too sick at the time, although gladly he is well now), when I saw him for my first appt. he took one look at my chart and said, "You know, you don't have to do a vaginal delivery." I hired him on the spot. The one thing I knew for sure was that Her Maj and would come out in one piece. And we did. FTR: nurses give the best referrals - they know all the gossip.

I have known 2 women who had unassisted homebirths and everyone came out fine. A dear friend (who did not have maternity insurance) had a midwife attend her birth for a 3 day labor (my friend was 43), and she and her son came out fine. I cannot be pro-choice when it comes to terminating a pregnancy without being pro-choice about the culmination of one. That being said, if I had my way all births (at home or hospital) would be attended by a licensed midwife who was also an RN. Also, a nanny would come by once a day for the first 3 weeks so you could take a nap while she put in a load of laundry and bought tv dinners - my mother was so busy with getting ready for a "project" that I had no help after Mr. 99 had to return to work. It sucked and I am still bitter about the extreme sleep deprivation and no one bringing me food.

[Beeks]

:x Are you serious?

Yup. She just forwarded me the email. CJane says that because she "felt fine" she didn't think pre-natal care was necessary. She had one appointment at 25 weeks because she thought she was going to use a midwife but then never went back.

For people who are supposedly so in to the sanctity of life, these people sure treat it carelessly. SO MANY things can go wrong during a pregnancy or at birth. The mom can "feel fine" and the baby could have minor or serious problems that can be FIXED if they are known.

I guess because Courtney thinks she speaks directly to God, she figures she'd know if she needed a doctor. I sure hope this is her last baby.

[Rachel333]

Oh wow, that's incredibly stupid. I think sometimes about what it would have been like to give birth before modern medicine and it terrifies me. So many women died in childbirth and it was super common to lose a baby, too. I can't imagine doing that when you don't have to, though at least she has the knowledge that she could go to a hospital if she had to.

[NothingLeftToLose]

Ok - let me get this straight -

She had almost NO prenatal care (1 prenatal appointment total)

By her "guess" she was 3+ weeks overdue

Delivered at home with only her husband in attendance (no midwife)

This is almost criminal to me.

[NothingLeftToLose]

Ok - just checked out her FB page (C Jane Kendrick) and most commenters are ready to nominate her for Mormon sainthood.

[Jessica]

Holy crap! I just saw that pic. WTF goes through someone's mind that they post a picture like that? Conceited much?

Uhh, look at all her self-portraits on the side-bar of her blog. No shit she's conceited! ;)

[Jessica]

Yup. She just forwarded me the email. CJane says that because she "felt fine" she didn't think pre-natal care was necessary. She had one appointment at 25 weeks because she thought she was going to use a midwife but then never went back.

I felt just great even though I had anemia! Jeez these people are so stupid.

[Katiebug]

RE: hospitals and back labor, etc - Every situation works out differently. I ended up going without an epidural because the lab took quite a bit of time to do the bloodwork to see if I could have one...and I had a short labor. Or as the OB who delivered me said, "Bad news is, no epidural. Good news is, you're having the baby now." A lot of them will definitely let you shift positions, etc, although my doctor didn't want me to stay in the on-my-knees position for TOO long (but the relief from back labor was nice). Our hospital staff was excellent, but I've heard some less rosy ones from people in the same hospital, so mileage may vary.

I'm never going to be a homebirther; I prefer having a baby in the hospital where a crash C-section and a NICU is available if things go to hell. My default is the baby's safety and then mine, with the "experience" running a distant third. I had a pretty medicalized birth out of necessity - an induction due to preeclampsia. We and my OB had planned to let me go into labor on my own, to not go to the hospital until I was in active labor, that I'd have only a heplock and ideally no meds, I could labor in the Jacuzzi, etc. Yeah, not so much! :lol: I was induced, had an IV running the entire time, was on continuous external monitoring, and once I was in active labor I had to be confined to bed on mag sulfate. Once I had to stay in bed I begged for Nubain and once it seemed to wear off I asked for an epidural...then we discovered I was pushing involuntarily while my epidural was being put in (they never ran the meds through it), my OB got paged up to my room (he was just wrapping up a surgery on the OR!), and I delivered the baby 20 minutes later. I spent our daughter's first 24 hours in bed on mag sulfate being monitored very closely, but the preeclampsia resolved within a week and in general I recovered very quickly.

My birth was not what I'd wanted or planned, but it was a wonderful experience. My OB and the nurses were great and did their best to let me stay mobile as long as possible, to help me cope without pain meds for as long as I did, to get me through pushing and delivery that was unexpectedly epidural-free, and to make sure that the baby stayed with me and got to nurse right away even though my medical condition wasn't so hot. I have great memories of that birth even though it wasn't what we expected it to be - and in the end they could have done to me whatever was necessary if it meant that our baby was born safely.

Some of the natural birth/anti-OB crowd are so rabidly opposed to anything related to the medical establishment and it seems like sometimes the "birth experience" is placed above the health or life of the mom and/or baby. I totally get wanting to avoid unnecessary intervention or wanting a homebirth/birth center experience, but sometimes intervention is necessary and potentially life saving. Prior to the advent of modern obstetrics and midwifery the maternal and neonatal mortality rates were much higher than they are now.

I am all for homebirth with an experienced and trained midwife, or in a birth center, if a woman wants that sort of birth and is low risk and willing to transfer if necessary. However I think that unassisted homebirth and especially unassisted pregnancy is absolutely batshit crazy. It's risking two lives for the sake of an "experience" and sadly a shocking number of unassisted births end in tragedy.

[Buzzard]

I'm a big fan of better living through pharmaceuticals and hospitals. As my mom says, if theres a pill/shot/powder/whatever available I'll take it.... as I go scurry off to pack a bag for surgery...

[Kitten]

I would've ended up with a c-section if I had gone the hospital route... I pushed for quite a while on my back and Jude just didn't want to come out. Then the midwives threatened me with going to the hospital to get a c-section

FYI, someone I know had this used on them IN a hospital by a DOCTOR to AVOID a C-section. She had been laboring kinda uselessly, and he told her if she didn't get it moving in fifteen minutes, they were going to have to go to the C-section. All of a sudden she "got busy" - maybe she needed the threat to get past whatever mental block she had, or maybe it would've all happened that way without the doctor's comment,. but I'm just saying that decent doctors do everything THEY can to avoid C-sections, too.

As for the "drop it in the field" comment I made - I'm well aware that this "option" was usually only exercised by women who had no other valid choice, but it did happen. I was simply using it to describe C Jane, as well as some of my friends who had this type of mentality - one of them went to the hospital "just to get checked out to see if it was real labor," delivered within 30 minutes of walking in the door, and went home two hours later. Ho hum, what did you do last night? Oh, I had a baby. Another ran and worked out vigorously until the day she delivered, because she wanted to get her figure back as quickly as possible. Some people are just insane, and that's all there is to it. :D

[liltwinstar]

So I just had a long think...

This CJane woman had lots of struggles with infertility, right? Did she ever say how she was able to get pregnant?

I've read that couples who have to go through IVF or other fertility treatments can feel a bit cheated - after all, most babies are conceived in privacy, and hopefully in the context of a loving, happy, relationship and because of a good ol' romp in the hay. When you go through IVF, suddenly conception is not private any more - you have doctors, lights, petri dishes, legal docs, etc etc. This can feel intrusive to some couples, and understandably so. Obviously, most couples are happy to have their babies and they move on from whatever disappointment they may have experienced in the process of having a child.

However, with this woman, I'm wondering if she was trying to re-capture some of that intimacy by having the unassisted birth and by the creepy sexual references. Maybe she feels that since she couldn't have a "normal" conception, she'd try for a similar sense of intimacy/privacy with the delivery process. Maybe she feels cheated by fertility treatments - possibly let down by her body and her inability to conceive "normally." So, then she does her best to prove that her body *does* work, that she's *not* broken/damaged/etc.

(not saying infertile women are broken; I can just see how they could feel that way)

I still think that it's a smug, self-righteous, egotistical post, and that she's nuts, but I have some sympathy for her. And a suggestion that she find a good therapist and spend a *lot* of time talking and working through some of her issues.

[StarrieEyedKat]

I'm a big fan of better living through pharmaceuticals and hospitals. As my mom says, if theres a pill/shot/powder/whatever available I'll take it....

Amen

[Beeks]

So I just had a long think...

This CJane woman had lots of struggles with infertility, right? Did she ever say how she was able to get pregnant?

I've read that couples who have to go through IVF or other fertility treatments can feel a bit cheated - after all, most babies are conceived in privacy, and hopefully in the context of a loving, happy, relationship and because of a good ol' romp in the hay. When you go through IVF, suddenly conception is not private any more - you have doctors, lights, petri dishes, legal docs, etc etc. This can feel intrusive to some couples, and understandably so. Obviously, most couples are happy to have their babies and they move on from whatever disappointment they may have experienced in the process of having a child.

However, with this woman, I'm wondering if she was trying to re-capture some of that intimacy by having the unassisted birth and by the creepy sexual references. Maybe she feels that since she couldn't have a "normal" conception, she'd try for a similar sense of intimacy/privacy with the delivery process. Maybe she feels cheated by fertility treatments - possibly let down by her body and her inability to conceive "normally." So, then she does her best to prove that her body *does* work, that she's *not* broken/damaged/etc.

(not saying infertile women are broken; I can just see how they could feel that way)

I still think that it's a smug, self-righteous, egotistical post, and that she's nuts, but I have some sympathy for her. And a suggestion that she find a good therapist and spend a *lot* of time talking and working through some of her issues.

That's an interesting theory in general but C Jane has stated before that she (and her enormous family) simply PRAYED the infertility away! She never took drugs, etc. God obviously just loves her mostest.

[Jessica]

She's Nie Nie's sister, right? I guess the smug invincible attitude (kids not wearing seatbelts, anyone?) runs in the family. Stupid stupid stupid.

[nonymouse]

I loathe her. That is all.

[Beeks]

Ok - just checked out her FB page (C Jane Kendrick) and most commenters are ready to nominate her for Mormon sainthood.

OMG, did you see this one?

Burgin Streetman: C Jane.... I've read your blog on and off for a few years. I think you are a funny writer, and I enjoy your posts. I can also often relate with your detractors, and sometimes get curiously flummoxed by some of the things you say... however, after reading this post, any reservations I had about you have flown entirely out the window. You are a ROCK STAR, and Chup in a brave, amazing man. This is by far the best birth story I have ever read. When I finished, the only question left to be asked is really, could there be any other way to do it than this? You are incredible.

[Jessica]

"Knowing how close a hospital is, they were statistically just as safe as if they were in a hospital."

Um, NO. They weren't. If you aren't checking the heart rate you can't know that your baby's heart rate is dropping dangerously low. You can't know to administer oxygen until you get to the hospital. There are no drugs available in case of hemorrhage to keep the mother alive until they get to the hospital. No one to help maneuver the baby for shoulder dystocia. No one to unloop the cord from around the baby's neck (a midwife can do that while the baby is still in the womb, but just knowing that they do that doesn't mean you're trained to do it. I know plenty of tricks that midwives use--doesn't mean I can actually do it myself!). No infant resuscitation equipment, or even professionals trained to do any of that. With a trained, certified nurse midwife you are very safe at home. Just wingin' it by yourself? NO YOU ARE NOT "STATISTICALLY" JUST AS SAFE!!! :evil:

[Jane]

This lady is just plain conceited and stupid. On a cloth diapering board I belonged to there was a girl who delivered TWINS at home with just the husband assisting. The difference is they are Americans living in China and due to some issues they had at the hospital prior to the birth they truly felt like it was their only option, even though it was not only extremely dangerous but also illegal. She had prenatal care throughout the pregnancy, did a ton of reading, had a huge support network online and the board even managed to get some midwives to be available for video conference. It wasn't her ideal and she was terrified, but they took it very seriously and researched every what-if that crossed their mind or was brought up. The second baby was breech, which is not uncommon, but she was prepared and the delivery went smoothly. Both of the babies and the mom came out ok, even though she admitted to being super worried and stressed about. CJane on the other hand doesn't seem to grasp the gravity of her choice, especially given that she was so far "overdue".

Honestly her story isn't that amazing to me. I had pretty much the same experience in the hospital with my third. They were crazy busy with back to back deliveries, the dr broke my water at 4 cms and then went downstairs for her clinic appts. Dh and I were left alone, as the nurse was called away to help with a birth that wasn't going well (all the mom/baby monitors were on the tv, we watched their strips and it was scary). I too had a pretty silent birth, I whimpered a bit but that was it. I do think it was a pretty intimate labor, I clung to dh during the contractions and we didn't really say or do anything, but there was a strength in just being quiet and together. I got shaky and when the nurse came in I told her I thought I had transitioned and she got kinda panicky, but had to get back in the other room. A few mins later I had dh get the nurse, I could feel the baby moving down with the contractions. Nurse comes in, baby is crowning, she hits the emergency button and all hell breaks loose. Good thing I WAS in the hospital, dd was flying out but was crazy tangled in her cord, they pushed her back up so they could cut it. She was posterior, 8 lbs 7 oz. Whole thing was 3 hrs from the time I went in until she was out. All of mine came out sunnyside up too, my boys were 9 and 10 lbs.

CJane seems very conceited, not even based on alllll the pics of herself. I hate birth stories that are all about the mom and how she made the "experience". There wasn't any talk about focusing on the baby, of visualizing the baby moving down, talking to the baby during the labor, NOTHING. It's all about her and her Chup. The whole thing just reads "here's my super speshul, super romantic, unassisted super birth!!!". And I think she agreed to hosting everything at her house just so she could be waited on and not have to do crap.

[jenny_islander]

Well I was concerned before Turkey day that C Jane was 43 weeks preggo and we had a good discussion about it. She had the baby the night before/morning of Thanksgiving and published her birth story blog.cjanerun.com

So it was as unassisted homebirth. Reads very poetic and love love love my husband and romantic and sweet and apparently she was hosting guests and she got up the next day and her family and guests had a full dinner a la Anthropologie ad.

Really?

What is it with LDS women and the need to put on a show of perfect marriage/perfect life/perfect birth?

The scary thing to me is after reading it that women who look up to LDS mommy bloggers like C Jane wil think that it is "easy" to just quietly birth a baby at home alone.

What do my FJ peeps think aobut this?

I think that deliberately birthing without an attendant who is trained to handle rare but unpredictable and potentially very serious emergencies is foolhardy. Early in my first pregnancy, somebody tried to scare me into a hospital birth by describing uterine hemorrhage. My midwife calmly explained exactly what she would do in that rare event and told me how long it would take an ambulance to arrive and how long from then to reach the hospital. She had handled this emergency before. The thought of asking my husband to do it with the manual in one hand--! Then there are cross-births and other malpresentations, and so on.

Getting up the day afterward and cooking a big dinner for everybody is just stupid. You had a baby! Lie down! Have people bring you things!

[Aetna]

Cjane's post was as much about her adoration of her husband as it was about the baby. At the end of the post, she threw in the polygamy reference. I don't think she needs to be ashamed of her great-something grandfather but it certainly made my head spin after her reverence of Chup and in the context of that blog post. Did anyone else have the same response?

[Maul the Koala]

The same with the whole " give birth in a field and went back to work" bullshit. Not true. ONLY women who were forced by extreme circumstances did that, and they had a very, very high death rate.

This was one thing that stuck out to me in my history classes. Yeah, some of these women went back to the fields. You want to know where their babies were? I did a fair bit on Ukrainian history and a lot of women were forced to leave their children unattended in order to get the work in the fields done. They had absolutely no choice. If they had a choice it would've been with their babies.

[Clementine]

This was one thing that stuck out to me in my history classes. Yeah, some of these women went back to the fields. You want to know where their babies were? I did a fair bit on Ukrainian history and a lot of women were forced to leave their children unattended in order to get the work in the fields done. They had absolutely no choice. If they had a choice it would've been with their babies.

Same here. A relative of mine was a field worker in the 20's. She had to bring the baby in a basket and place him next to the field to be able to nurse him. She was terrified that one of the big working horses (this was pre-tractors) would escape and step on the baby. It was not her choice at all but she had to work to keep her employment that included room and board for the family.

As for C Jane: she seems to have the same disrespectful attitude to things that most people consider dangerous that Nie Nie has... and had even before the accident.

Nie Nie and her husband used to take plane rides together in a tiny Cessna and she wrote jokes about crashing in her blog. Well... they did crash eventually.

C Jane didn't go to any doctor's appointments and then had an unassisted birth at home. What if the baby would have been deprived of oxygen during labour? I have a friend who got CP and brain damage during the delivery because she was deprived of oxygen. She's in a wheel chair... drooling and making strange noices that are very hard to interpret if you don't know her. And she was delivered in a hospital. I just don't see why anybody would be willing to risk their baby's life just for their own convienience.

Hybris.

[Maul the Koala]

Same here. A relative of mine was a field worker in the 20's. She had to bring the baby in a basket and place him next to the field to be able to nurse him. She was terrified that one of the big working horses (this was pre-tractors) would escape and step on the baby.

I'm fuzzy on the details but that's how one of my relatives lost a baby back then. It was a person instead of an animal though. Farming is one dangerous business. I do not want to go back to those times.