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C Jane - unassisted homebirth - thoughts?


NothingLeftToLose

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Two people asked you very polite questions.....I'm confused. :?:

It wasn't the questions I was asked, it was the whole thread. Just really, really revealing.

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It wasn't the questions I was asked, it was the whole thread. Just really, really revealing.

It's fine to be all for choices, but avoiding all pre-natal care because you "feel fine" just strikes me as horribly irresponsible. Then going 3 weeks overdue and giving birth alone at home? VERY risky. She put her baby's life in danger and I'm not ok with that.

This is coming from somebody who had a hospital birth with my first, hated it, and had an intervention-free birth with midwives for my second. And my second was almost unassisted because I labored at home with a doula until 30min before he was born - no checking his heartbeat or progress or anything. So I was pretty darn far to the crunchy side and I still think CJane is a nutjob.

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It's fine to be all for choices, but avoiding all pre-natal care because you "feel fine" just strikes me as horribly irresponsible. Then going 3 weeks overdue and giving birth alone at home? VERY risky. She put her baby's life in danger and I'm not ok with that.

This is coming from somebody who had a hospital birth with my first, hated it, and had an intervention-free birth with midwives for my second. And my second was almost unassisted because I labored at home with a doula until 30min before he was born - no checking his heartbeat or progress or anything. So I was pretty darn far to the crunchy side and I still think CJane is a nutjob.

Well, perhaps you could address some of the things you find offensive. I admit to not reading every single post in this topic, but it seems like most people have expressed their own preference/experience, but still support other women's choices for the most part. It's really not fair to go on a rant about how narrow-minded FJ is, blah, blah. FJ is not any one thing or another. Make an argument and back it up.

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It's fine to be all for choices, but avoiding all pre-natal care because you "feel fine" just strikes me as horribly irresponsible. Then going 3 weeks overdue and giving birth alone at home? VERY risky. She put her baby's life in danger and I'm not ok with that.

This is coming from somebody who had a hospital birth with my first, hated it, and had an intervention-free birth with midwives for my second. And my second was almost unassisted because I labored at home with a doula until 30min before he was born - no checking his heartbeat or progress or anything. So I was pretty darn far to the crunchy side and I still think CJane is a nutjob.

Well, lots of people would call you a nutjob for not going to the hospital and getting hopped up on drugs at the first hint of labour. What of that?

Throwing around insults isn't getting anyone, anywhere. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it and don't appreciate it when some of the extremists on the UC side tell you that YOU were irresponsible for going anywhere near a hospital because they have their own set of risks inherent in them.

Both UC and hospitals, and anywhere in between, have their own set of risks. Major risks of hospital births include higher risk of the newborn contracting dangerous infections, higher incidence of intervention when unnecessary, which poses a high risk to both mother and baby and extreme stress on the mother which can make birth extremely painful and dangerous and bring on complications with blood pressure, tearing, bleeding and put undue stress on the baby.

UC has risks too. The only difference is which one is culturally acceptable.

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Well, perhaps you could address some of the things you find offensive. I admit to not reading every single post in this topic, but it seems like most people have expressed their own preference/experience, but still support other women's choices for the most part. It's really not fair to go on a rant about how narrow-minded FJ is, blah, blah. FJ is not any one thing or another. Make an argument and back it up.

Calling someone an idiot, insane, a nutjob, irresponsible, insinuating disregard for the child, and more, just because they chose a different way, is not about personal preference. It's nasty and narrow-minded.

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My main issue with UC is the lack of knowledge about how dangerous pregnancy and labor *can* be for both the mother and the baby. Most of the time things go well, but often enough it doesn't and sometimes you have absolutely NO idea; or it could be the other way where things are fine until something happens and then it's an emergency and you have minutes to act. You can't predict whether it will happen to you, either. If you read many of the UC forums or blogs you'll see so many in complete denial that this kind of thing can happen. They really think that it's only interventions that cause problems, or even go so far as to think that if you're at home but afraid, that that's what will cause issues. They also tend to treat moms that have had things go wrong like shit and find some way to blame them. It's a cult in many ways. If someone really understands what can go wrong and what they can lose, then I suppose that's their choice. Not one that I would make, but not something I'd want to legislate. I just don't see this kind of attitude in many, unless it's of the variety that when a child dies, say, "well, shit happens. oh well." No joke.

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No. I'm not opposed to anything, except forcing and pressuring anyone to do things against their will. If you want constant monitoring and intervention and machines and surgeries and drugs, fine by me. If you want to do things on your own, fine by me too.

My first was a necessary emergency c-section. I was extremely ill and went into preterm labour, and I'm thankful every day that medical technology was there when I needed it, otherwise she might not be here. My second pregnancy, I chose to have a c-section because of a twin pregnancy and though it was a bad experience, I don't regret it, since I know the extra risk of a twin pregnancy is compounded by it being closely spaced with my first. I'm by no means against any of this. I'm just not against birth in a natural setting either.

I don't care if people skip medical care for themselves for some reason. I do care when they are willing to risk their unborn baby's life.

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I don't think it is intolerant to criticize withholding medical care from infants, which is how I see unassisted childbirth. I support the mother's right to decide what to do with her body, but I don't have to like it.

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Calling someone an idiot, insane, a nutjob, irresponsible, insinuating disregard for the child, and more, just because they chose a different way, is not about personal preference. It's nasty and narrow-minded.

Okay, so your problem is with Beeks?

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I don't care if people skip medical care for themselves for some reason. I do care when they are willing to risk their unborn baby's life.

No legitimate study has shown that home birth or UC carries any greater risk of death for the baby. Some different risks, yes, but overall homebirth (which UC is lumped in with) has been shown to have fewer complications and lower incidence of neonatal death.

There will always be a few who won't seek care no matter what and put their lives and their baby's life at unnecessary risk, but of everyone I've known who has done homebirth or UC, that's not the case and I don't think it is with the vast majority. Most, including myself, would go to the hospital if there were some kind of complication they felt they were unequipped to handle. I was devastated with my first to have to go to the hospital, but I knew it needed to be done and have no regrets.

There are a FEW women who will insist upon c-sections because they don't want to give birth naturally and want to have their birth scheduled, and they don't want to push. Do we base our opinions of all who have or choose c-sections for medical reasons on the few who take it to the extreme? I'd hope not.

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I don't think it is intolerant to criticize withholding medical care from infants, which is how I see unassisted childbirth. I support the mother's right to decide what to do with her body, but I don't have to like it.

I agree with your view of unassisted childbirth. I do support a woman's right to choose the type of birth she prefers, but I do not support her right to willfully endanger her child. And since we're talking about choice, I also support a woman's right to choose whether to terminate a pregnancy or not, but I don't support her right to give herself her own abortion because she doesn't want "medical intervention" or have some D-I-Y abortionist do it.

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I don't think it is intolerant to criticize withholding medical care from infants, which is how I see unassisted childbirth. I support the mother's right to decide what to do with her body, but I don't have to like it.

And some would turn that around on you and say people who go the "traditional" route of hospitals and drugs and surgery are irresponsible for blindly following white coats and putting birth out of their own hands, and handing their baby over as soon as it's born to be subjected to any number of procedures and tests that only stress them out.

Doesn't make it right just because it's your opinion. You don't have to like it, but it IS intolerant to bash it and call names. I don't know if you were one of those doing it earlier in the thread, so I don't know if you did, not accusing you or anything, but those who do are just as bad as if it were coming from the other side of the fence.

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No legitimate study has shown that home birth or UC carries any greater risk of death for the baby. Some different risks, yes, but overall homebirth (which UC is lumped in with) has been shown to have fewer complications and lower incidence of neonatal death.

There will always be a few who won't seek care no matter what and put their lives and their baby's life at unnecessary risk, but of everyone I've known who has done homebirth or UC, that's not the case and I don't think it is with the vast majority. Most, including myself, would go to the hospital if there were some kind of complication they felt they were unequipped to handle. I was devastated with my first to have to go to the hospital, but I knew it needed to be done and have no regrets.

There are a FEW women who will insist upon c-sections because they don't want to give birth naturally and want to have their birth scheduled, and they don't want to push. Do we base our opinions of all who have or choose c-sections for medical reasons on the few who take it to the extreme? I'd hope not.

Even if statistics are in favour of homebirths, I still think it's irresponsible. Sometimes things go wrong and something unexpected happens so why take the risk of not being in a hospital? I have a friend who is a midwife at a University hospital and they have to make emergency cesarians every week where it's a matter of minutes to save the baby's life. It's not that uncommon, even if everything looks normal up until then.

It's the same thing with seat belts. I must have been in a car ten thousand times and nothing has ever happened to me. But when I did crash, I was very glad that I had my seatbelt on, or else I wouldn't be here today.

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Even if statistics are in favour of homebirths, I still think it's irresponsible. Sometimes things go wrong and something unexpected happens so why take the risk of not being in a hospital? I have a friend who is a midwife at a University hospital and they have to make emergency cesarians every week where it's a matter of minutes to save the baby's life. It's not that uncommon, even if everything looks normal up until then.

It's the same thing with seat belts. I must have been in a car ten thousand times and nothing has ever happened to me. But when I did crash, I was very glad that I had my seatbelt on, or else I wouldn't be here today.

Soo... you're all in favour of evidence when it supports your personal axe to grind, but have no problem throwing it out the window when it doesnt?

Why is this such a familiar idea... could it be... exactly what most of us find hypocritical about fundies?

I have a friend who's a doula and has had exactly one hospital transfer resulting in emergency c-section in 7 years of practice. See? I can use anecdata too!

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Thanks for playing, ladies. I can see when I'm in a circular situation and not getting anywhere. I don't want to burn any bridges or have this spin even more out of its original intent, so I'm quitting this now. In the future, I'll have to stay out of any FJ topic in which my opinion is not a mainstream one. Instead, I'll try getting ZsuZsu to see multiple sides of things and be reasonably accepting of others' choices without bashing - I might have better luck.

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Well, lots of people would call you a nutjob for not going to the hospital and getting hopped up on drugs at the first hint of labour. What of that?

Throwing around insults isn't getting anyone, anywhere. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it and don't appreciate it when some of the extremists on the UC side tell you that YOU were irresponsible for going anywhere near a hospital because they have their own set of risks inherent in them.

Both UC and hospitals, and anywhere in between, have their own set of risks. Major risks of hospital births include higher risk of the newborn contracting dangerous infections, higher incidence of intervention when unnecessary, which poses a high risk to both mother and baby and extreme stress on the mother which can make birth extremely painful and dangerous and bring on complications with blood pressure, tearing, bleeding and put undue stress on the baby.

UC has risks too. The only difference is which one is culturally acceptable.

I'm sorry. Had I tried an UC with my son he'd be dead. If i tried a home birth with him, I would have ended up with a transfer and a subsequent c-section. As it was, I decided to give birth in the hospital, where after 30+ hours in labor with no sleep, and no food (not by their dictate but I was feeling too ill to eat) for 48+ hours, I asked for an epidural. It saved me from major abdominal surgery. Being at home would have made my outcome worse. The only interventions that were used? were ones that as my labor was obviously not going well, I and my husband discussed and ASKED FOR. When things were not going well, we asked our midwife what our options were and she laid them out on the table. Not all hospitals are BOOGEY MEN and not all hospital practioners (I had midwives) are intervention happy jerks who will come in wielding a scalpel if you don't dilate 1cm an hour in 12 hours.

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And the historical rate of maternal death was 1 in 100. Which plummeted in the 20th Century due to actual medical care, including birthing in hospital rather than at home.

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And some would turn that around on you and say people who go the "traditional" route of hospitals and drugs and surgery are irresponsible for blindly following white coats and putting birth out of their own hands, and handing their baby over as soon as it's born to be subjected to any number of procedures and tests that only stress them out.

Doesn't make it right just because it's your opinion. You don't have to like it, but it IS intolerant to bash it and call names. I don't know if you were one of those doing it earlier in the thread, so I don't know if you did, not accusing you or anything, but those who do are just as bad as if it were coming from the other side of the fence.

Your reply had nothing to do with my statement.

So I check my brain at the door when I enter the hospital? Really? Doctors can perform all these things and I have no decision-making power?

Actually, I make a point of seeing only doctors who are aware of my need to understand everything that happens to me. Which would be the majority of doctors. I have had only necessary, life saving interventions and refused the others. It is NOT intolerant to have an opinion about home birth, especially when I have a niece who has permanent damage to her eyes because her mother had a home birth. Tell me, Lily/Elle, how is it tolerant to tell me I don't get the right to have an opinion about an issue that affects real live (hopefully) children?

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Thanks for playing, ladies. I can see when I'm in a circular situation and not getting anywhere. I don't want to burn any bridges or have this spin even more out of its original intent, so I'm quitting this now. In the future, I'll have to stay out of any FJ topic in which my opinion is not a mainstream one. Instead, I'll try getting ZsuZsu to see multiple sides of things and be reasonably accepting of others' choices without bashing - I might have better luck.

You always seem to quit rather than defend your position. Whats up with that? Those that oppose or disagree with your views are more than willing to support their positions, and yet you flee. Its a pattern I've noticed. Perhaps I'm not alone.

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Thanks for playing, ladies. I can see when I'm in a circular situation and not getting anywhere. I don't want to burn any bridges or have this spin even more out of its original intent, so I'm quitting this now. In the future, I'll have to stay out of any FJ topic in which my opinion is not a mainstream one. Instead, I'll try getting ZsuZsu to see multiple sides of things and be reasonably accepting of others' choices without bashing - I might have better luck.

That's such crap. I suggest that perhaps in the future, don't come flaming into a debate with no will or inclinationn to support your own arguments.

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I am registered nurse midwife, I do home, hospital and birthing center births every day and have for 10 years. All my patients must follow my rules, come in for pre natal checkup on a regular bases, if they miss more than 2, no home birth for you, I inspect the home to make sure it is clean and safe, no one under the age of 10 may witness the birth and no filming. If you do not like these rules then find someone else.

Since I work in a rural clinic, I have get a lot of calls from people who try to do an unassist homebirth, had one today were we had to Airlift, Mom and baby out. The Mom had been bleeding for 6 hours before her husband decided that there might be something wrong, he was consulting Dr Google. Due to their decision this will proably be their first and only child, she will make it.

Lily, my dear, unassisted homebirths are very dangerous. Majority of women who do them do not have proper prenatal care, if any. They rely on Dr Google for instructions, instead of someone who has at least 7 years of training. Here you have a person that is in pain, not thinking clearly and want them to make a medical decision with another

person who is freaking out, in most cases both of them are uneducated. This is an accident waiting to happen. There are alot of excellent registered nurse midwives out there that enjoy doing homebirths under certain conditions. My opinion is that I would rather be safe than sorry, use trained medical professional in situations that could be life and death.

As a medical professional I can fire a patient if they want a planned unassist homebirth, I have only had to do it once. For you information the baby died of an infection within 3 days of birth.

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Countressrascal, just wondering, but why do you not allow filming? Just curious, because I thought a lot of people wanted to do things like that.

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My midwife is able to, as well as Rebecca Williams. I think they are the only 2 in Utah who can.

The law has changed, then. I'm glad of that. I gave birth at a free-standing birthing center because it was the closest I could come to having a home-birth and still have professional care and medical equipment available it if was needed.

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Thanks for playing, ladies. I can see when I'm in a circular situation and not getting anywhere. I don't want to burn any bridges or have this spin even more out of its original intent, so I'm quitting this now. In the future, I'll have to stay out of any FJ topic in which my opinion is not a mainstream one. Instead, I'll try getting ZsuZsu to see multiple sides of things and be reasonably accepting of others' choices without bashing - I might have better luck.

Well just bless your little heart.

Nature is a bitch and anyone who blindly trusts her is an idiot.

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