Patriarchy. Still shit.

[pomology]

Language evolves.

And 'ginormous' is not a new word, is it? I remember it from childhood in the 70s, anyway.

Yeah. I had when people are ultra-prescriptivist about grammar and language. But it's amusing to me that they clearly think they know so much, but from a linguistic perspective they really have a very faulty grasp of language and how it works. Not that I don't think there should be standards for language, but I do realize that it can be problematic and goes against the natural changes that happen in language.

[LynnKaboom]

Yeah. I had when people are ultra-prescriptivist about grammar and language. But it's amusing to me that they clearly think they know so much, but from a linguistic perspective they really have a very faulty grasp of language and how it works. Not that I don't think there should be standards for language, but I do realize that it can be problematic and goes against the natural changes that happen in language.

No, I get that language changes. There's just some squooshed-up words that drive me crazy because they sound stupid to me. Blogosphere, mansplaining, webinar... they all just sound like Dr. Seuss words to me, and that throws me off.

[pomology]

No, I get that language changes. There's just some squooshed-up words that drive me crazy because they sound stupid to me. Blogosphere, mansplaining, webinar... they all just sound like Dr. Seuss words to me, and that throws me off.

Alright, that's totally cool. Hating on individual words is cool by me. There are definitely words I don't like. My thoughts weren't actually directed at you, but at the phenomenon of being incredibly prescriptivist about language. I'm really sorry if it came out as a personal attack because I really didn't mean it that way and now I feel kind of bad. I happen to like blogosphere, but I will agree that I am not a fan of the words mansplaining or webinar. They just sound kind of off to my ears, too.

ETA: But if other people want to use them, that's totally cool by me. I'm sure there are words that I use that grate on other people.

[LynnKaboom]

Nah, it's cool. I don't mind if other people want to use words that they like but annoy me. I don't want to be the Language Police. It's just a bit grating for me, but I'll deal with it.

[Aurora]

I think that the solution to prejudice is education, and people like Knight who show a little bit of openness may eventually change their way of thinking as they are exposed to different opinions.

I actually thought the Serven wedding was a bit fake (too posed, with the old car and all). So I didn't comment on that thread. I also (like other posters here) often feel a bit depressed when I read reports of fundie weddings, and how they take pride in using the OLD vows that say the woman shall obey and so on. The one that made me saddest was Kendalyn and Robert (I think that was their names) - where she described on her blog how she had wanted to be a doctor ever since she was a child, but her dad decided against that, and she gave up some paramedical training as well to marry. Depressing. But I don't think there's anything wrong with a bit of gossipy light relief. I don't think I would be so addicted to FJ if it was *all* serious - call me light-minded if you will!

[formergothardite]

Did Knight show openness? He seems pretty firm on the idea that he isn't goint to address any of the issues brought up with his definition of patriarchy or any of the other non-gossip questions. But maybe others are reading his responses in a different light than I am.

[desertvixen]

Did Knight show openness? He seems pretty firm on the idea that he isn't goint to address any of the issues brought up with his definition of patriarchy or any of the other non-gossip questions. But maybe others are reading his responses in a different light than I am.

No.... it's not just you.

[Witsec1]

FWIW, before teh term mansplaining was coined, a friend of man invented the term "male answer syndrome". Pretty much the same concept.

[Aurora]

A little bit of openness - I agree not much, but he did come here, seemed to want to have a discussion, and answered questions and responded to challenges for at least the first few pages. Of course, then it did seem to get too much for him. But he does seem to be listening to Brainsample.

I mean, a little chink in someone's thinking, one new or different thought - maybe nothing will change this year or next, but it could make a difference eventually.

[CanadianHippie]

Just gotta say, mansplaining bugs me too. Words like that really take away from the actual arguments.

[oscar]

Just gotta say, mansplaining bugs me too. Words like that really take away from the actual arguments.

I like the word mansplaining. I think it concisely indicates a specific kind of behavior, although it's not a very constructive thing to accuse someone of doing.

[O Latin]

When I first came to FJ as a wannabe fundie, I had bought into the whole shiny, happy, follow-this-formula-and-your-life-will-be-perfect aspect of it all. I honestly did not know about many of the problems with that lifestyle that are discussed on FJ. But it took me awhile to process it all and figure out what I actually believed and what I just bought into because it all seemed so lovely (I'm still working on that, actually). I was 19 then and I'm 22 now. This is a time my life when I'm supposed to be "trying on" different lifestyles or belief systems. Coming here and sticking up for my fundie-ish beliefs was part of that. People who engaged with me and had conversations and explained things to me helped me realize that fundieism didn't "fit." People who told me that I was wrong (with no further discussion) or that I was being willfully ignorant just made me shut down and leave the discussion because I knew I would say things I didn't mean if I got upset. When I get upset I hyperbolize (is that a word) everything I think, feel, and believe and usually end up having to recant it all when I calm down. Those kind of experiences left me feeling more inclined towards my fundie beliefs. There were times when I simply had to avoid this board for months at a time because I was worried I would upset myself to the point of having a "relapse" of fundie-ness.

None of that is to say that I think we should suck up to every fundie-esque person who shows up here. Some of them clearly come here with no intention other than to tell us all how wrong we are. But I think some do come honestly wanting to be part of the conversation, and I think that's fine. Just because I disagree with someone's beliefs doesn't mean I have to be horrible to them. This is just my opinion, but I don't think most fundies are awful, horrible people. I disagree with them, but I also want to understand them.

Anyway, that's just my perspective/opinion. On a more superficial note, I like the visitors who claim to have dirt on our favorite fundies, especially the Duggars.

[Kate]

To be honest, I said I thought the Serven wedding was lovely because it looked lovely in my opinion. Simple as that. I think Hillary Clinton's wedding dress and style was hidious. Still like a lot about her, still don't agree with a lot that the Servens believe, but I don't see how one relates to the other.

I don't post much and I know I'm not the main focus of your question, but I would guess I'm not that different from a lot of posters. I disagree with a lot about the patriarchal stuff we snark on. Some things I don't always disagree about. I find the whole thing very interesting, and I never signed on here to be a loyal soldier (or solder :) ) against the patriarchy in all things. Or for the patriarchy, for that matter.

I try to post honestly and openly (when I post) and that includes being critical and/or snarky when I feel like it, but nowhere did it say I couldn't post unless I only ever promised to be critical of everything ever connected with 21st century patriarchal Christianity.

[JesusFightClub]

Hmm.

I'm not trying to say no one should have a laugh on FJ (I love the LOLthreads) or do a bit of bitching (it's a snark board). I suppose what I am arguing is a variant of "no platform", except for fundies not fascists.

What fundie comes here to engage with us for a good reason? They've either come here to shout at us, or, like Knight, they appear sweetly reasonable but have ulterior motives to say the least. You are not convincing either of them by politely explaining your beliefs to them, or even not so politely. You are validating the fact they hold theirs.

Because this is a no censorship place, I merely suggest not engaging with them. Knight in his PM to Brainsample had the usual thing going on that they all do...saying how the flaming posts were sooo unhelpful. Since when was our job to be helpful? To lead fundies into the light? It's nice if we do as a side effect, but I am uncomfortable with the idea it's our role just because one shows up.

Well, could go on for ever and annoy even more people ;) so I'll stop there. If mansplaining annoys you, Lynn, I am happy to go with "male answer syndrome" . I like that phrase.

[LynnKaboom]

The thing with the word mansplaining is- I just can't get over the fact that it sounds like a Dr. Seuss or Looney Tunes word to me. I get that it could be a valid concept... I just think it sounds childish and really takes away from the discussion. I just can't take someone seriously if I'm imagining their posts in the Cat in the Hat's voice.

But if you want to use it, I'm not going to stop you. I'm not the Language Police. Although if I may be honest, "male answer syndrome" would be preferable.

[JesusFightClub]

The thing with the word mansplaining is- I just can't get over the fact that it sounds like a Dr. Seuss or Looney Tunes word to me. I get that it could be a valid concept... I just think it sounds childish and really takes away from the discussion. I just can't take someone seriously if I'm imagining their posts in the Cat in the Hat's voice.

But if you want to use it, I'm not going to stop you. I'm not the Language Police. Although if I may be honest, "male answer syndrome" would be preferable.

No problem with that. The difference to me is you find the term grating. You are not saying "don't express the concept!!!!". Saying "this sounds weird" is different from saying "men don't like it when you say that so shut up."

[Kitty]

The thing with the word mansplaining is- I just can't get over the fact that it sounds like a Dr. Seuss or Looney Tunes word to me. I get that it could be a valid concept... I just think it sounds childish and really takes away from the discussion. I just can't take someone seriously if I'm imagining their posts in the Cat in the Hat's voice.

But if you want to use it, I'm not going to stop you. I'm not the Language Police. Although if I may be honest, "male answer syndrome" would be preferable.

To me it sounds like something off Rugrats.

[Austin]

It's not a word I use often, but I will say that when you tell a man who is otherwise not a dick that he is "mansplainin'", he will rein it in. It's just shorthand for saying, "I'm hearing you being pedantic and condescending and I don't like it".

So I think it's a good word on those occasions.

[CanadianHippie]

It's not a word I use often, but I will say that when you tell a man who is otherwise not a dick that he is "mansplainin'", he will rein it in. It's just shorthand for saying, "I'm hearing you being pedantic and condescending and I don't like it".

So I think it's a good word on those occasions.

Could you just say "I'm hearing you being pedantic and condescending, an I don't like it"?

[AnnoDomini]

Just gotta say, mansplaining bugs me too. Words like that really take away from the actual arguments.

It also comes dangerously close to misandry. It's too easy to dismiss anything a man we don't like when he's saying, well, anything other than agreeing with us.

Let us not in our battle for equality, become the very sexists we despise.

[oscar]

Could you just say "I'm hearing you being pedantic and condescending, an I don't like it"?

I think the word entails something a bit more nuanced, so you end up with a big pile of words when you try to using avoid it. Like, "You are being patronizing, and pedantic, and everyone else recognizes that you actually don't know very much about the thing you are condescending to explain, so you're actually kind of embarrassing yourself, too."

I've heard the same phenomenon described as "that thing physicists do when they talk to biologists."

[JesusFightClub]

It also comes dangerously close to misandry. It's too easy to dismiss anything a man we don't like when he's saying, well, anything other than agreeing with us.

Let us not in our battle for equality, become the very sexists we despise.

No. It doesn't mean "a man saying something I disagree with, and I am a woman." Mansplaining or male answer syndrome is something different altogether. It's when a man thinks the poor fluffy headed little woman he is debating with needs educated on the basic points of the debate.

Two examples. My mum is an expert on a particular area of law. She still gets men who only just finished high school patronisingly explaining to her basic concepts which she learnt and dealt with 20 years ago.

I have been a political activist for 12 years now and during this time have studied theory as well as tactics. And I get 16 year old boys trying to school me in really.small.words. "Have you heard of a guy called Marx?" Yeah, while you were still in primary school.

That is mansplaining. It's not disagreement. My mum is fairly far to the right of me politically and well respected in her job and she still gets it. And it is always men. I have never had a woman do that to me ever.

[noni alabaster]

Hi, all. First-time poster, 4-week lurker.

I think I might have been denied a second interview for a job because I didn't wear a skirt to the first one. Maybe the place is run by fundies. I wear glasses (I had contacts for years, but they damaged my eyes,) and I noticed the women at this small "job fair" wearing glasses and dressing modestly, as I do. I dress that way because I *am* modest, not because of some dictate.

I thought this might be a cool place to work. I have many years experience in restaurants and food; this is a high-end grocery in a metropolitan area sorely in need of such.

Thoughts?

[emmiedahl]

Could you just say "I'm hearing you being pedantic and condescending, an I don't like it"?

omg, it is always about the men with you, isn't it? :?

[LynnKaboom]

It's not a word I use often, but I will say that when you tell a man who is otherwise not a dick that he is "mansplainin'", he will rein it in. It's just shorthand for saying, "I'm hearing you being pedantic and condescending and I don't like it".

So I think it's a good word on those occasions.

Or, if they've never heard of the term before, they might go "WTF does that mean!?" Not everyone knows what all the words mean. 8-)

Also, I do feel some people are very quick to go toss out the concept whenever someone who happens to be male says something they don't like (go look at the sf-drama Livejournal community if you want some examples), but I haven't noticed that here at FJ, really at all. Just use of the term, that while I might agree with the sentiment behind it, just can't get over the word choice.