Dillards 93: Counting the Cost - Indeed

[Lease257]

I’m almost done with the book. 
 

It is interesting to see what her thoughts were about certain topics that we here were all speculating on. Especially all those trips back and forth from CA to home…it seems that they were forced to keep coming home and not that they were doing it because they wanted to. 

She showed restraint when she needed to..not naming siblings at many times. Yet purposefully named the people complicit in releasing the police records a few times  

Never blaming Christianity…but outing IBLP throughout the book  I’m still confused by IBLP.  Is it a “religion”? Like…. It’s a list of rules.  Rules that are supposed to follow Christ but morphed into rules Gothard created? If you are IBLP do you go to church, or do you just go to meetings? Do you go to both?  It just seems like the Duggars stopped following God and started following a way of life to make themselves look like a perfect family.   
 

I had an emotional reaction to hearing her say that she would rather be in El Salvador than in her childhood home.  It just makes me Realize there was more going on than we will ever know and I’m glad she didn’t feel like she had to write it down in the book  

 

I feel terrible watching the show and thinking they were an amazing family  Buying the book Is my way of “apologizing” to her and giving her money 

 

[Coconut Flan]

IBLP is what is called a parachurch organization.  They are not a church or a denomination, but like an add on like a Billy Graham crusade or Campus Crusade.  You still go to your regular church, but can also go to the IBLP/ATI gatherings and use their material.  Frequently you get the effect of many families following IBLP/ATI attending the same church.  

[lexiloumarie]

3 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

I was wondering why there was no mention at all of Amy. She talks about how different she felt with other people outside the cult-I always wanted to know if Amy had any influence on them? It seems like she could have been a ally as Jill was coming out.
Are Jill and Amy close?

Amy has confirmed she signed an NDA and regrets it. I'm guessing Jill left Amy out to avoid getting her cousin in trouble with JB. She seems to be very protective of everyone (even Michelle) when it comes to him. 

I would guess that Amy was included in the 80,000 and sign an NDA group or given a similar offer to "buy" her silence not realizing the extend of everything. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

45 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

IBLP is what is called a parachurch organization.  They are not a church or a denomination, but like an add on like a Billy Graham crusade or Campus Crusade.  You still go to your regular church, but can also go to the IBLP/ATI gatherings and use their material.  Frequently you get the effect of many families following IBLP/ATI attending the same church.  

And I think this is why some IBLP families “home church.” Because the churches they attend may do things they don’t agree with. So they get together with some of the other IBLP families and have their own church in their homes. That’s such a red flag to me. Homeschool, homechurch, home everything is such isolation.

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

IBLP is what is called a parachurch organization.  They are not a church or a denomination, but like an add on like a Billy Graham crusade or Campus Crusade.  You still go to your regular church, but can also go to the IBLP/ATI gatherings and use their material.  Frequently you get the effect of many families following IBLP/ATI attending the same church.  

I had no idea this is how IBLP operated! Thanks for the explanation! Have never heard the word parachurch but it makes sense.

37 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And I think this is why some IBLP families “home church.” Because the churches they attend may do things they don’t agree with. So they get together with some of the other IBLP families and have their own church in their homes. That’s such a red flag to me. Homeschool, homechurch, home everything is such isolation.

Oh, this makes sense, too. Yeah, all the home stuff is creepy to me.

 

43 minutes ago, lexiloumarie said:

Amy has confirmed she signed an NDA and regrets it. I'm guessing Jill left Amy out to avoid getting her cousin in trouble with JB. She seems to be very protective of everyone (even Michelle) when it comes to him. 

I would guess that Amy was included in the 80,000 and sign an NDA group or given a similar offer to "buy" her silence not realizing the extend of everything. 

I think leaving Amy out was in part a protective measure but also, I don’t see how any of Jill’s issues with JB would have involved Amy. 
 

Oh, if Amy cashed in and signed an NDA that only tells me JB saw her coming moles away and knew she was a push over by just waving some dolla bills in front of her. I’m sure it wasn’t anything near what he offered his kids.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cam

[marmalade]

I believe Famy's NDA only lasted 5 years and has since expired (signed after the Josh scandals in 2015). She has talked about the Duggars in the past couple of years.

Edited September 25, 2023 by marmalade

[Father Son Holy Goat]

17 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

This is the part I'm questioning.  How does JBoob know that Jill's tax return was $130,250?

Did he prepare it and have her sign it?  Did he prepare it and sign it as her POA?  Did he just sign her name - i.e., forgery?  How do we or Jill know that she "made" "$130,250?"  Is there a W2 or 1099 to prove it? Is this the total of her expenses that JBoob paid for her?  Does JBoob believe that equals her "salary"?

Call me cynical, but I believe JBoob's accounting is absolutely totally completely made up out of thin air.

 

 

$130,250 is the amount Jim Bob wrote on Jill’s tax returns that Jill was paid. She never saw a dime of it.

From Jill’s book on page 217, “It didn’t take long for [Derick] to realize that all the money that Pops’ accountant had declared on my tax returns made it look like we had way more cash than we actually did. It didn’t matter that we’d never actually been paid the $132,249.98 which had been declared. As far as these trusts and foundations were concerned, our tax returns told the story that we didn’t need much financial help.”

Edited September 25, 2023 by Father Son Holy Goat

[KnittingOwl]

On 9/23/2023 at 6:30 PM, Giraffe said:

He just gets worse and worse, doesn’t he? 

From Jill’s book

The final straw before JB took them out of a church was seeing a Christmas program which included “female members of the youth group” dancing. That night when all the children went to bed JB told them he was sorry, “addressing us all but looking particularly at the boys. ‘You should not have had to have seen that. I was wrong to take us there tonight. We won’t be going back to that church event again.’”

I’m absolutely revolted by this. Does that mean JB got an erection at children dancing and therefore deemed it evil? God I hope his skeletons come out sooner rather than later. 
 

(eta, I understand how biological processes work and that erections can happen at any time for any reason and not only for sexual arousal. My disgust is that he places the blame on literal children!)

That seems like such a dangerous attitude. If there’s no difference between dancing and actual pornography, how are there not more cases like Josh? It just seems like there’s no area of understanding any sort of healthy sexuality. And there’s no difference between how bad one is over the other. 
 

I’m not even going to touch the mind fuck it must be for the kids (especially girls) to go from being taught that to getting married and being expected to have your first kiss and have sex all in one day. That’s got to come with so much shame. 

[AprilQuilt]

I'm not too far into Jill's book but one episode that struck me was a young man JB was trying to persuade to be part of the TV show. Paraphrasing as I'm listening to it on audiobook, but Jill says that JB tried to sell it to this anonymous guy by saying it was great ministry, if you were given a mic in a stadium wouldn't you use that opportunity to tell everyone there about Jesus? And the young man said, not if I felt God had told me just to talk to that one person under the bleachers. Jesus was always stepping away from big crowds to notice one individual. Apparently this took the wind out of JB's sails.

Anyway, Jill doesn't name the guy or say why he was potentially going to be included in the show, but she does move on to talk about courtships, so I'm assuming this guy was a potential suitor. I'm really interested to know if he ended up being one of the Duggar girls' husbands or if this was a courtship/'getting to know' that didn't progress. And in which case for whom. Interesting that some men may have been put off by the televised element of it all, and maybe weren't impressed by JB's styling it as a 'ministry'. I guess this kind of discussion would have been a useful sorting tool for JB. Surely he wouldn't want a son-in-law who poked holes in his theology or wasn't game for having every significant moment of his life turned into content and monetised.

Edited September 25, 2023 by AprilQuilt

[Meggo]

6 hours ago, KnittingOwl said:

 

I’m not even going to touch the mind fuck it must be for the kids (especially girls) to go from being taught that to getting married and being expected to have your first kiss and have sex all in one day. That’s got to come with so much shame. 

This is always ALWAYS in my brain. That they can't even be alone with someone or do more than hold hands with them and then BOOM, there is a big ceremony and you'd better get cracking on that whole joyfully available thing and produce as many babies as possible the SECOND that ring is on your finger. Like ... how do you even DO that? 
My parents were super strict and I did have boyfriends that I kissed etc (much to my parents dismay - kisses should be saved for prom because if you kissed a boy before prom, what was he going to expect AT prom? Which baffled me. Like why do I care what he "expects"? It's still my body...) - but even still, the first guy I slept with .. man he had a lot of baggage to help me unpack. (and I did end married to him - so the poor guy is STILL unpacking baggage) 

[BullyJBG]

2 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

I'm not too far into Jill's book but one episode that struck me was a young man JB was trying to persuade to be part of the TV show. Paraphrasing as I'm listening to it on audiobook, but Jill says that JB tried to sell it to this anonymous guy by saying it was great ministry, if you were given a mic in a stadium wouldn't you use that opportunity to tell everyone there about Jesus? And the young man said, not if I felt God had told me just to talk to that one person under the bleachers. Jesus was always stepping away from big crowds to notice one individual. Apparently this took the wind out of JB's sails.

Anyway, Jill doesn't name the guy or say why he was potentially going to be included in the show, but she does move on to talk about courtships, so I'm assuming this guy was a potential suitor. I'm really interested to know if he ended up being one of the Duggar girls' husbands or if this was a courtship/'getting to know' that didn't progress. And in which case for whom. Interesting that some men may have been put off by the televised element of it all, and maybe weren't impressed by JB's styling it as a 'ministry'. I guess this kind of discussion would have been a useful sorting tool for JB. Surely he wouldn't want a son-in-law who poked holes in his theology or wasn't game for having every significant moment of his life turned into content and monetised.

Yes, it hit me the second time I read this......I always suspected that Jana had a boyfriend or potential boyfriend that didn't want to be filmed and that was the reason the courtship didn't happen. I thought it likely was that he didn't want to "re-do" the Jimbob talk for the cameras. Chances are this was the one, and if it is, Jill is good to be vague on it to respect Jana's privacy. 

[AprilQuilt]

8 minutes ago, BullyJBG said:

Yes, it hit me the second time I read this......I always suspected that Jana had a boyfriend or potential boyfriend that didn't want to be filmed and that was the reason the courtship didn't happen. I thought it likely was that he didn't want to "re-do" the Jimbob talk for the cameras. Chances are this was the one, and if it is, Jill is good to be vague on it to respect Jana's privacy. 

this does ring true, just in terms of the kind of guy Jana might be interested in. If that's the case, then it's quite sad isn't it? Either Jana whichever daughter was genuinely keener on being involved in the TV ministry than she was in having a relationship with that guy, or she felt she had no choice but to part ways with him. I mean, the TV show will always have affected what sort of people took interest in the Duggar kids as marriage material, but it really brings it home what an effect this kind of renown has on child performers' lives long-term, in ways they didn't get to consent to. JB trafficked them into a domino effect of consequences.

[St.Clara]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:34 PM, HeartsAFundie said:

Illinois passed a law requiring that children of social media influencers receive a percentage of the earnings of "monetized digital environments".  Hopefully this law will catch on countrywide, and that someday reality shows will be required to do the same. 

https://fortune.com/2023/08/12/new-law-entitles-child-social-media-influencers-to-percentage-of-earnings-kidfluencers-sharenting/

  

Kirk Honda ("Psychology in Seattle") has talked about this law in his Duggar deep dive, see here around 28 minutes:

Spoiler

 

He says that this law is practically useless because it only applies to creators who make, at least, 10 cent per view. According to him, almost no creators actually make that much. He does not understand why they included this condition.

Edited September 25, 2023 by St.Clara

[sixcatatty]

On 9/23/2023 at 6:22 PM, Xan said:

My understanding is that if you die without leaving a will, the surviving spouse gets a portion and any children get the rest.  If there is no spouse or children, it goes to siblings.  I think there are different laws regarding inheritances depending upon the state in which you have lived when you die.

There are. There should be a section of your state statutes that have to do with intestate inheritance. I'm having trouble keying on the term of art. The only thing I can remember is "per stirpes." IF I can key on it, I'll be back.

[sixcatatty]

3 hours ago, sixcatatty said:

There are. There should be a section of your state statutes that have to do with intestate inheritance. I'm having trouble keying on the term of art. The only thing I can remember is "per stirpes." IF I can key on it, I'll be back.

Intestate succession is what I was looking for.

[Fundyrunner]

For intestate estate settlement, the order is usually spouse, children, parents, siblings.

I got my will in place, because I realized my spouse would not inherit everything; my parents would be entitled to 25%.

In my state, if the children are the product of both spouses, the spouse inherits everything (because theoretically, they will eventually inherit). If there are children with another person (e.g. previous marriage), the spouse and children split the estate.

[front hugs > duggs]

I certainly haven’t watched every interview they’ve done (or read the book myself), but I found this interview pretty interesting. Derrick explicitly blames JB&M for enabling the abuse and mentions how him and Jill disagree on that. 
 

https://www.etonline.com/jill-duggar-says-writing-about-brother-joshs-abuse-was-the-hardest-part-of-her-new-book-exclusive?fbclid=PAAaZotvZl-8Ga-mS7WyDwszvYociECKVukqWt9aNdETMYukytqNwZxWbG3m4_aem_Acq3xWUF10B1o_oRbbvI-thijLVevMa29bLK5cxVTJgJyAAmxbIIWqsjO1Mnm5uKTYQ

[Brittany15]

I just finished the book (and promptly returned it to the library as the wait list is long) and I have some thoughts (forgive me for any repeats)

1.) it was interesting that she didn’t seem critical about her parent’s parenting as a whole. She seemed to attack them for how they handled the show, but she didn’t have much criticism for their parenting before the show. I found this very interesting 

2.) she completely glossed over the Derek gets in trouble on twitter thing. He made very offensive and transphobic comments and she seems to think this was no big deal. Her lack of remorse for him in this situation shows me that they still have a lot of growing in terms of their views 

3.) I really respect how she completely protected her sibling’s privacy. Names were very deliberately left off in places and I really appreciate this 

4.) im glad she didn’t go into details about her abuse at the hands of josh as I believe she is protecting herself here. However, it is shocking to me how she can be so angry that Jim bob did not pay her fairly yet doesn’t seem to hold her parents responsible in anyway for how that played out 

[FrumperedCat]

I don't think this has been shared before but the writer they collaborated with has also posted about his experiences working with them. He uses the term Ghost Writer which I guess is probably true, but to me it does seem they had a large amount of input which leads me to view it as more of a collaboration. https://www.craigborlase.com/ctc-1

[Cam]

2 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I certainly haven’t watched every interview they’ve done (or read the book myself), but I found this interview pretty interesting. Derrick explicitly blames JB&M for enabling the abuse and mentions how him and Jill disagree on that. 
 

https://www.etonline.com/jill-duggar-says-writing-about-brother-joshs-abuse-was-the-hardest-part-of-her-new-book-exclusive?fbclid=PAAaZotvZl-8Ga-mS7WyDwszvYociECKVukqWt9aNdETMYukytqNwZxWbG3m4_aem_Acq3xWUF10B1o_oRbbvI-thijLVevMa29bLK5cxVTJgJyAAmxbIIWqsjO1Mnm5uKTYQ

Wow! There’s a lot to unpack in that interview! Thanks for the link! I never watched an interview with the Dillards other than seeing them in Shiny Happy People. Jill sounded meek in SHP but came across way better in this interview, nicely composed, much more sure of what she was saying.

I am shocked they watch Parks n Rec!!! It’s only one of the very best tv shows ever but the thing is, it has quite the liberal slant! One of the first episodes was about a pair of gay penguins! Who knows, maybe there’s hope for more ‘disentangling’ from them.

Jill spoke very well with minimum interruption from Derick. I also loved that when he did speak, she mostly kept her eyes down, none of that sickening idolized laser-like gaze Michelle gives JB. It looked like Jill and Derick were interviewed in their own house. I liked the interviewer. A far, far cry from nostril-y Meaheghayn Kelly.

A clip is shown of the Dillards wedding saying “I do”, and omg how disgusting to see friggin JB standing RIGHT THERE hovering beside them, and then the minister lets JB be the one to tell Derick “you may kiss the bride”. Like he owned Jill’s “purity”. How nauseating. Talk about control, control, control. That’s what JB demanded.

Towards the end of the interview, Jill says something about wanting her siblings to be free and not controlled. It was interesting to me that she and Jinger both talk about being free. Wonder where they got that ideaaaaa????? 😀 

[JermajestyDuggar]

24 minutes ago, Cam said:

Wow! There’s a lot to unpack in that interview! Thanks for the link! I never watched an interview with the Dillards other than seeing them in Shiny Happy People. Jill sounded meek in SHP but came across way better in this interview, nicely composed, much more sure of what she was saying.

I am shocked they watch Parks n Rec!!! It’s only one of the very best tv shows ever but the thing is, it has quite the liberal slant! One of the first episodes was about a pair of gay penguins! Who knows, maybe there’s hope for more ‘disentangling’ from them.

Jill spoke very well with minimum interruption from Derick. I also loved that when he did speak, she mostly kept her eyes down, none of that sickening idolized laser-like gaze Michelle gives JB. It looked like Jill and Derick were interviewed in their own house. I liked the interviewer. A far, far cry from nostril-y Meaheghayn Kelly.

A clip is shown of the Dillards wedding saying “I do”, and omg how disgusting to see friggin JB standing RIGHT THERE hovering beside them, and then the minister lets JB be the one to tell Derick “you may kiss the bride”. Like he owned Jill’s “purity”. How nauseating. Talk about control, control, control. That’s what JB demanded.

Towards the end of the interview, Jill says something about wanting her siblings to be free and not controlled. It was interesting to me that she and Jinger both talk about being free. Wonder where they got that ideaaaaa????? 😀 

Oddly enough, I think both Parks and Rec and The Office are shows fundies might dip their toe into. Although there are plenty of sexual innuendos, there’s never any sex scenes. Making out is the closest to it. Although they cuss, it’s not constant. And they never say shit, fuck, or cunt. And there isn’t any violence or gore. If the episodes were rated like movies, they would probably be PG for the most part. They probably adore Ron Swanson. 

[Travelfan]

After reading the book I’m wondering if perhaps Jill holds some faint hope that Michelle could come to see JB for who he truly is. It appears that she puts all the negativity on JB and none on Michelle. I could see her wanting her mom to finally see what her dad has become and how he has hurt her and come to her “side”.  None of the kids seem willing to put any blame for anything on Michelle and I find that interesting. I almost wonder if from Jills point of view she hopes to not only see her siblings get free, but also her mom.  

[Father Son Holy Goat]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oddly enough, I think both Parks and Rec and The Office are shows fundies might dip their toe into. Although there are plenty of sexual innuendos, there’s never any sex scenes. Making out is the closest to it. Although they cuss, it’s not constant. And they never say shit, fuck, or cunt. And there isn’t any violence or gore. If the episodes were rated like movies, they would probably be PG for the most part. They probably adore Ron Swanson. 

Parks and Rec has a strong feminist theme; people are constantly trying to shut down Leslie Knoppe but she fights to have her voice heard, backed by a group of trusty friends and co-workers. I’m not surprised Jill finds something to like there. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

Personally I hope the Dillards watch Ted Lasso next. A feel good show about fatherhood and mental health might also sit well with them. They’d have to be able to stomach the swearing and sex references. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, Travelfan said:

After reading the book I’m wondering if perhaps Jill holds some faint hope that Michelle could come to see JB for who he truly is. It appears that she puts all the negativity on JB and none on Michelle. I could see her wanting her mom to finally see what her dad has become and how he has hurt her and come to her “side”.  None of the kids seem willing to put any blame for anything on Michelle and I find that interesting. I almost wonder if from Jills point of view she hopes to not only see her siblings get free, but also her mom.  

I think it’s pretty common to vilify one parent and see the other as a saint. I think it’s likely a coping mechanism. I will say there’s probably some truth to the fact that JB did most of the horrible shit. But Michelle is part of it just by allowing it. It’s much harder to realize both of your parents failed you miserably. The Hales act like their mother is a saint even though their father abused them all horribly and she did nothing to stop it. They would rather vilify their oldest sister who was raped constantly than blame their mother for anything. The Willises still love and seem to be close with their mother even though she did nothing to stop their father. I think that since these families are patriarchal it’s easier for the children to forgive their mother for not stopping the abuse. Because the father was in charge. I’m not saying what Michelle is doing is ok. I can just understand the thought process.