Shiny Happy People: A Duggar and IBLP Documentary

[jlbturtle]

Did you guys know there was a “reversal baby choir” within IBLP?  I was listening to a podcast talking about Happy Shinny People and they talked about this.  Made me laugh out loud.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

18 minutes ago, jlbturtle said:

Did you guys know there was a “reversal baby choir” within IBLP?  I was listening to a podcast talking about Happy Shinny People and they talked about this.  Made me laugh out loud.  

Yes, I had heard of that and thought it was insane. It sounds like something Steve Maxwell would come up with. These people are nuts. About their nuts. Sorry I’ll see myself to the prayer closet now. 

[Nolongeroppressed8.4]

On 7/8/2023 at 8:52 AM, Cam said:

I agree with most of this, but when it comes to the Duggars, they had how many years (well over 10) of being on reality tv that took them literally all over the world. These kids saw vastly more of the outside world than most quiverful families. More than many non-quiverful families, too! My non-fundie family barely traveled anywhere when I was a kid! Sure, Duggar kids weren’t taught to be “open” to other ways of living, but all that traveling, various public appearances and all that time spent with a tv crew filming in your house for years and years provided a whole heck of a lot of room for observation to see that the way you’re living isn’t all that’s out there. 

Really, the Duggar siblings, especially the older ones, had massive opportunities to witness that the world is much larger than the four walls of the TTH and that there are other ways besides religious adherence to a cult to be a good person and have a good life. Sure, being on a reality show no doubt had it’s drawbacks, but imo, 19KAC and CO afforded them a lot of privilege. 

I mean more like actual life skills that can translate into money making. 

[shesinsane]

4 hours ago, jlbturtle said:

Did you guys know there was a “reversal baby choir” within IBLP?  I was listening to a podcast talking about Happy Shinny People and they talked about this.  Made me laugh out loud.  

Not only have I heard of the choir (though I've never watched a performance), in Heather Heath's ATI tell-all Lovingly Abused, she mentions the gossip that some of the children in the choir were not actually the results of vasectomy reversals but their moms want everyone to think they are. 

Spoiler

"Impersonating a child conceived after a vasectomy reversal" was not on my Fundie bingo card, but it's been a weird year. 

[GreenBeans]

48 minutes ago, shesinsane said:

"Impersonating a child conceived after a vasectomy reversal" was not on my Fundie bingo card, but it's been a weird year. 

Can we please use this as a thread title?

[TN-peach]

Spoiler

Makes me think of Michael Scott.

Edited July 11, 2023 by TN-peach

[CallmeChaCha]

Oooooooooh. I haven't been on this website in a hot minute! I binge-watched Shiny Happy People two days ago, had a lot complaints about it but no one to tell. And then... I get an email about an hour ago telling me to reset my FJ password. It's a sign *cue eerie sound effect and light cackling*

Since I haven't posted in ages and ages and ages, I'll try not to insult anyone with my "back in the day it was okay" attitude. (BTW, am I 'sposed to have read the whole thread before I posted?)

I was very surprised to see Jill and Derrick (sp?) on this documentary, mostly because I stopped following the Duggars, other than seeing disgusting major headlines in my news feed every so often, so I had no idea what was going on with the family. The documentary started out hopeful (for me) but thinking about it on the whole once I finished it, it actually wasn't that great. First, it gave off a 'save face' vibe for the involved Duggars (eg: "I had no idea this was going on" [about the Disgusting Human who shan't be named]). It was kind of like these three Duaggarettes want to set themselves apart from that sitch. Not that I blame them. I was just hoping for more depth. I realize a lot of the discussion focused on explaining how Disgusting Human was able to get away with, well, with disgusting behaviors, and how there's this culture of... honestly, I'm not even sure how to describe it. A culture of not seeing what's right in front you? Not accepting what's right in front of you? 🤷🏽‍♀️

Second, they introduced a few people (like that dude that worked as a law clerk or some such) who told us stuff and then that's it. Nothing more on the Joshua Gen movement (Gen J, anyone?). Not much on the dude's background and definitely nothing on what he thinks NOW. And that's really the sweet stuff for me. I want to know what Jill thinks NOW. She got a nose ring to rebel. Okay. I saw she was wearing pants. (That was a big f-ing deal 8 years ago. Like I said, I haven't been here in a while...) Good for her. But does she, I don't know, believe in blanket training? How does she feel about it? How does she feel about being parentified? What about her sisters NOW?! I mean, that's probably something she would have to tread delicately but tell me what you think about that crap book you and your sissies wrote! Tell me how you feel about missing out on certain things! You traveled the freaking world as a member of the clan. What was that really like? Did you hate it? Was it cool? Tell me more!

And Deanna! Gurl, whatever you did or didn't know about regarding the Disgusting Human, you did know about JB's beliefs and all that stuff. What did you really think about it? Like, reeeaaallllyyy think about it. Did he ever try to convert you? What about how he and Michelle treated Amy? Because even we caught some of that "we like Amy (but not really but we're not saying that out loud)" crap on the show. What about your dad? Give me more than "our parents were none too happy about the gaggle of kids Michie was poppin' out."

And those Holt people. They had a dozen kids or something. What do they think about the whole iblp/ati/quiverfull thing? Are they still practicing? Are their kids?! 🤨 Is this like Scientology, where they leave but can't communicate with those still "in"?

Perhaps a lot of my questions have been answered previously by Jill, etc., or elsewhere, and I'm just here rambling about "old news" because I haven't kept up. It's nice to complain about this with a community of people who understand my sick fascination with fundies.

Anyway. Carry on. 😁

[FiveAcres]

3 hours ago, CallmeChaCha said:

 

Perhaps a lot of my questions have been answered previously by Jill, etc., or elsewhere, and I'm just here rambling about "old news" because I haven't kept up. It's nice to complain about this with a community of people who understand my sick fascination with fundies.

Anyway. Carry on. 😁

There is speculation that Jill is saving juicy bits for an upcoming book that she is "writing." (Scare quotes because she probably has a ghostwriter, or Derrick is doing the writing.)  Book is scheduled to be out in December. 

Ma and Pa Holt have separated. Ma and one of the sons has a restraining order against Pa Holt. 

Don't have any response about Deanne and Amy, except that many critics tend to consider their participation in the documentary somewhat disingenuous. 

(I wonder what was up with the password reset? I got it too.) 

[smittykins]

On 7/10/2023 at 11:06 AM, viii said:

Didn’t Josh Harris recant his book IKDG and apologized for it? 

Isn’t he also(supposedly)no longer a Christian?

Quote

I wonder what was up with the password reset? I got it too.) 

Same.

Edited July 12, 2023 by smittykins

[Cam]

4 hours ago, CallmeChaCha said:

I want to know what Jill thinks NOW. She got a nose ring to rebel. Okay. I saw she was wearing pants. (That was a big f-ing deal 8 years ago. Like I said, I haven't been here in a while...) Good for her. But does she, I don't know, believe in blanket training? How does she feel about it? How does she feel about being parentified? What about her sisters NOW?! I mean, that's probably something she would have to tread delicately but tell me what you think about that crap book you and your sissies wrote! Tell me how you feel about missing out on certain things! You traveled the freaking world as a member of the clan. What was that really like? Did you hate it? Was it cool? Tell me more!

And Deanna! Gurl, whatever you did or didn't know about regarding the Disgusting Human, you did know about JB's beliefs and all that stuff. What did you really think about it? Like, reeeaaallllyyy think about it. Did he ever try to convert you? What about how he and Michelle treated Amy? Because even we caught some of that "we like Amy (but not really but we're not saying that out loud)" crap on the show. What about your dad? Give me more than "our parents were none too happy about the gaggle of kids Michie was poppin' out."

And those Holt people. They had a dozen kids or something. What do they think about the whole iblp/ati/quiverfull thing? Are they still practicing? Are their kids?! 🤨 Is this like Scientology, where they leave but can't communicate with those still "in"?

We’d love to hear more truths from this fray. Jill may be saving some tea for her book, as was mentioned, but I don’t think it’ll be overly revealing. I could care less about Amy and Deanna, but surely they could have come across with additional details. Perhaps they could collaborate on a book. The Holts are said to be getting a divorce as BobYE filed a restraining order on the hubs some time after the documentary was shot.

SHP wasn’t about revealing deeper truths to those of us who’ve FreeJinger’d all these years. Instead, it gave an outline of the hideous practices of IBLP, how Duggar fame helped it grow and the hypocrisy within. It revealed the sinister side of IBLP to people who still thought 19KAC was merely about a quirky little house on the prairie type family with many offspring.

But I am with you in that we still aren’t getting the nitty gritty truth behind the scenes! What I really want to know from*all four oldest daughters* is: what were your true feelings each time your parents announced another pregnancy, after about the 12th or 13th kid? I have always despised how Michelle would speak for the ENTIRE family by saying, “the kids were all thrilled to hear about another baby on the way, they are so excited, blah blah blah.” BULLSHIT. Her friggin group-speak. No individual thought process allowed. She projected onto them what she wanted them to feel. We never heard from any of the kids directly.

I want to know what those daughters said to each other back in their dormitory later after more pregnancy news. Did they cry? Bitch about the additional workload? Roll their eyes and gag? Calculate how many days or years before they could marry and get the hell outta Dodge? Were they sick of their parents’ never ending quest for attention through endless procreation?  C’mon, they couldn’t have really be “thrilled” every time Michelle popped out another kid. 

Yeah, we may never know.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Cam

[CallmeChaCha]

Ooh. I had no idea about the book. It'll probably be as useless as Jinger's. Not that I actually read it but I did look for a review from a reputable snark blog and the blogger said the book was basically "some upbringings are bad" or some such bullshit. (Was Jinger ever freed, by the way? 😆 As far as I can tell she went from fundie to fundie-lite but I don't actually go on her website.)

I doubt the oldest daughters complained about much. Don't they have a snitch culture? I sure as hell wouldn't trust any of the other girls, especially considering that I used to think Jill was the heaviest Kool-aid drinker! Turns out she was faking the shit out of that. Maybe. It's unclear from the documentary.

I'll need to figure out how to keep up with this clusterf*. Too many families, though!

[SpunkySpurgeonette]

I've been watching Shiny Happy People, and I'm having a lot of trouble.  I'm hoping this is okay to post here.

I'm nearly 50 now, but when I was 19-20, I married a fundie who I was completely head over heels with.  I hadn't had a lot of good experiences with boys, and I think I was just punch-drunk that someone loved/wanted me.

The marriage didn't last three months.  The ex said that God didn't want him to be with a psycho.  I guess I was psycho because I did a lot of crying.  He hit me once during the relationship, and he was a real gaslighter and, looking back, he treated me like crap.

I think what upsets me is that I would have gone back.  For years afterwards, I fantasized that he'd realize he was wrong and come back.

I've been watching Shiny Happy People and it's bringing back a lot of feelings.  Josh reminds me of my ex.  I think what is bothering me the most is that I know I could have been Anna.  If I'm honest, I think at that time I would have stood by just like Anna did.  I hate this.  I hate knowing that I was once in a place where I would have put up with just about anything.

I'm embarrassed. 

I just had to get this out.

[Columbia]

1 hour ago, SpunkySpurgeonette said:

I've been watching Shiny Happy People and it's bringing back a lot of feelings.  Josh reminds me of my ex.  I think what is bothering me the most is that I know I could have been Anna.  If I'm honest, I think at that time I would have stood by just like Anna did.  I hate this.  I hate knowing that I was once in a place where I would have put up with just about anything.

I'm embarrassed. 

I just had to get this out.

No shame. This is a culture that sets women and girls up to fail like that; you couldn't have known it from the inside. I'm glad you were able to get out quickly and that you're safe now.

[Evil Feminist]

I'm looking for a connection between Abeka/Beka Horton and IBLP/Bill Gothard. Was she involved  with IBLP or helped write wisdom booklets? Pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere since Shiny Happy People was released and now I can't remember where.  Searching FJ isn't pulling up anything. Does anyone have any information on that? 

[noseybutt]

33 minutes ago, Evil Feminist said:

I'm looking for a connection between Abeka/Beka Horton and IBLP/Bill Gothard. Was she involved  with IBLP or helped write wisdom booklets? Pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere since Shiny Happy People was released and now I can't remember where.  Searching FJ isn't pulling up anything. Does anyone have any information on that? 

I think the original Abeka curriculum dates back to the 1950's whereas the Wisdom Booklets were not written until the early 1980's. 

This HA article talks about the wisdom booklet creators and authors: https://homeschoolersanonymous.net/2014/02/03/a-brief-history-of-ati-and-hsldas-relationship/#comments

While Beka Horton's name is not mentioned, it wouldn't surprise if there isn't some overlap. I too am curious to know.

I think of it as a giant overlapping Venn diagram. Gothard's ideas were not original in that most of his weirdness was already floating around within different conservative American churches. He seems to have picked a rather specific set of beliefs from the cauldron, packaged it up, and then delivered it back across denominations. 

There is so much overlap and back and forth that it is truly head-spinning. 

[neuroticcat]

Maybe something like this? 

This was floating around twitter last month and I saved it. Source: https://twitter.com/JosiahHawthorne/status/1665152474246774790?s=20

 

[Hane]

@neuroticcat, I am highly please that Kevin Bacon isn’t attached to any of these jagoffs!

[JermajestyDuggar]

42 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

Maybe something like this? 

This was floating around twitter last month and I saved it. Source: https://twitter.com/JosiahHawthorne/status/1665152474246774790?s=20

 

I hate shaking hands but I would shake the hand of the person who made that. Good work.

[tankgirl]

On 7/28/2023 at 2:07 AM, Hane said:

@neuroticcat, I am highly please that Kevin Bacon isn’t attached to any of these jagoffs!

The only connection to be found to link them to Kevin Bacon, is their dislike of dancing.

[Maggie Mae]

2 hours ago, tankgirl said:

The only connection to be found to link them to Kevin Bacon, is their dislike of dancing.

It was John Lithgow who hated dance, thank you very much. Kevin Bacon danced in that film.

[tankgirl]

20 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

It was John Lithgow who hated dance, thank you very much. Kevin Bacon danced in that film.

But Lithgow was the degree that connects you to Bacon. It's less then 6 degrees in some cases but what can you do?

[JermajestyDuggar]

I can’t believe Journey to the Heart is still a thing. I am not trying to shame these girls. I just want to point out that they are dressed like IBLP fundies from 10 years ago. They haven’t updated their styling at all. Which is sort of weird. I guess it shows they are stuck in the IBLP belief system and fashion trends of years ago. The fundie world is changing their dress code and these women are not following the more worldly fundie dress you see all over social media. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[Jasmar]

I don’t know, there are a few “spot the eye trap” examples here 😂

Edited August 3, 2023 by Jasmar

[JermajestyDuggar]

14 minutes ago, Jasmar said:

I don’t know, there are a few “spot the eye trap” examples here 😂

I swear Steve Maxwell could find an eye trap on a nun!

[Hane]

And modesty tees as far as the eye can see!