(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 48: "Happy New Year to You [,Josh]... In Jail!"

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

41 minutes ago, smittykins said:

Didn’t Jared from Subway get 15 years?

He pled guilty in 2015 and his release date is 2029, but he was also charged with traveling across state lines to have sex with a minor. So way worse than Josh in that sense.

Emily D. Baker reviewed the available docs and says there is no evidence Josh was offered a plea deal. The email frequently referenced was just the the prosecution saying Josh would probably get 10 years, and it seems they may have just been trying to open the door to discussions. But whether his attorneys and the Feds ever discussed anything further is not known. 

Baker also says any discussions between the parties would have no bearing on the judge's ultimate sentence. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Anne Of Gray Gables

[Father Son Holy Goat]

19 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

I wasn’t particularly interested in the opposite sex until I was 18, but I never went through a phase of liking “bad boys”. I don’t want drama in my life. 
Regardless, how could ANYONE be into a convicted PAEDOPHILE??? The whole idea is all sorts of gross. 

I didn’t go through a bad boy phase either, instead I consistently picked damaged men. I’m in therapy and on a self imposed dating hiatus.
 

On 1/3/2022 at 4:10 PM, noseybutt said:

I have done evaluations with law enforcement agencies and some of the ones for pre-employment have red flags raised by the background investigators (excessive drinking or other habits, poor money management, etc). Often when I ask, "What would it take for you to change XYZ?" many will respond with a total external locus of control. For example, "my friends need to stop partying so much" or "my wife would need to have sex with me often" or " I am hoping to get my student loans forgiven so I have more money."

When that happens, I patiently point out that they have given me a response that is outside their control, and could they instead think of something they could do themselves.

Some can give an answer with this prompt, some can't. 

To be fair I probably would have given those same answers until recently. When you’re abused it feels as if nothing is within your control.
 

On 1/3/2022 at 3:20 PM, Melbelle said:

I realize this is the Daily Mail, but it has the best typo in it!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10365133/Jim-Bob-Michelle-Duggar-throw-huge-New-Years-party-Joshs-child-porn-conviction.html

"Among those who appeared to be in attendance were Jason, Johanna, Jennifer, Jordyn, and Jessa's wife Ben Seewald."

I can't stop laughing!

Hee Hee!
 

On 1/4/2022 at 11:00 AM, Sullie06 said:

You would be amazed at the stuff people tell us. I had a kid telling me all about another crime he committed (and apparently hadn't been charged with yet) last week. I kinda get the vibe from Josh that he would be a the type to just keep talking because he thinks he so smart. 

I hope so! Let the Duggar Empire burn.
 

22 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

Once the crazy girls who love incarcerated guys start sending him letters and funding his commissary account he will have little use for Anna or JB/M. 

I don’t see him getting less than 10 because that was what the feds offered him as a plea agreement.  I could easily see him sentenced 12-15. 

I hope no one tries to have a prison relationship with Josh but given that Dzhokar Tsarnaev is the “cute” bomber I don’t have a lot of faith in humanity. 

22 hours ago, Alisamer said:

IMO 15 would be ideal. All his kids would be adults and teens, as would all the nieces and nephews he actually knows. The ones who will be children when he's released will only have ever known him as "uncle Josh who is in prison". Everyone will have had plenty of time to settle into life with him gone. He won't have much use for them, and they won't have much use for him. Even if he and Anna stay together, the dynamic will be super different, and another baby would be incredibly unlikely. 

I know there are all sorts of sentencing regulations and such, but I personally feel like a person who has children at home, and who has been convicted of child-related sexual offenses, shouldn't be released to go home until those children are teens, at minimum. Older, if they are in the abuser's preferred age range. 

I’m still holding out for 19 years…and counting 

[Marshmallow World]

2 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Emily D. Baker reviewed the available docs and says there is no evidence Josh was offered a plea deal. The email frequently referenced was just the the prosecution saying Josh would probably get 10 years, and it seems they may have just been trying to open the door to discussions. But whether his attorneys and the Feds ever discussed anything further is not known. 

Baker also says any discussions between the parties would have no bearing on the judge's ultimate sentence. 

THANK YOU for pointing this out. I also want to add that a Judge will not tack on extra time for not taking a plea deal - every accused person is constitutionally entitled to a trial, and no judge can punish you for exercising that constitutional right. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

24 minutes ago, Marshmallow World said:

THANK YOU for pointing this out. I also want to add that a Judge will not tack on extra time for not taking a plea deal - every accused person is constitutionally entitled to a trial, and no judge can punish you for exercising that constitutional right. 

And I'd just like to add that as much as we wish Josh could be sent away forever, he's not going to get extra time because he has minor kids at home. Anymore than a court can give a bank robber a longer sentence because he owns a home next to a bank. Josh will get a sentence in line with what the judge normally gives out for people convicted of the same or similar crimes. 

[EmmieJ]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:00 AM, Sullie06 said:

You would be amazed at the stuff people tell us. I had a kid telling me all about another crime he committed (and apparently hadn't been charged with yet) last week. I kinda get the vibe from Josh that he would be a the type to just keep talking because he thinks he so smart. 

Agree.  I mean, asking the Feds when they come to your toll booth used car lot words to the effect, "did someone download CP?" is a great example of how (not) smart Josh is.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

9 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

Agree.  I mean, asking the Feds when they come to your toll booth used car lot words to the effect, "did someone download CP?" is a great example of how (not) smart Josh is.

Seriously. I really think that was the line that got him convicted so easily. Normal people who don't download CP would never have a thought like that enter their heads. But it's the first thing that came to his little mind.  Guilty!

[noseybutt]

2 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

 

To be fair I probably would have given those same answers until recently. When you’re abused it feels as if nothing is within your control.

Yes.  Thinking that everything is out of your control is common. It's very common with unresolved trauma.  Someone with an external locus of control is not a bad or weak person; they simply believe nothing is within their control.

But it doesn't work well for people in positions of authority or who must have the trust of the general public.  There is legit data on this with law enforcement officers with specific issues such as corruption, sexual harassment, etc. In an ideal world, officers assume responsibility for their behavior.

Part of the chaos of the Trump administration came down to this. Regardless of your political beliefs, having the person at the top assume zero responsibility for anything ever was draining and exhausting for the inner circle.

Edited January 5, 2022 by noseybutt

[Many_Spaynes]

On 12/22/2021 at 12:48 PM, nokidsmom said:

For someone who was the Golden Boy who was going to take the world by storm with his political "career" or "law degree" or just being the Super Duper Godly Man that everyone would listen to, he has done everything to ensure that none of it would happen and he would be worse off than before.  And he has taken down his family with him. 

If it weren't for the pedophilia, he'd be a hero

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

38 minutes ago, Many_Spaynes said:

If it weren't for the pedophilia, he'd be a hero

Good point. Something I haven't given much thought.

If the molestations and the cheating hadn't come to light (and it was a strange series of events that brought them forth - have to wonder what else no one knows about) Josh would have continued on in DC at the FRC. Traveling around, babbling about the evils of birth control keeping women out of the kitchen and wearing shoes. 

We know Josh is a dolt, but he's really no more or less stupid than any of these crazy right wing Congress people like Boebert and Greene. He'd probably be doubling down on the crazy right now, and possibly having a very successful political career. 

Scary. But thankfully he'll just be balding away in Federal prison for the remainder of his 30's.

[Many_Spaynes]

5 hours ago, Alisamer said:

 have a good idea what he's doing, you already know the worst parts about him, you don't have to deal with the actual reality or work of a relationship. He's not leaving underwear lying around or waking you up snoring, you don't even have to cook for him. It's like a fantasy but with an actual person. 

And as George Costanza pointed out, you never have to worry about the pop-in visit

[Bad Wolf]

2 hours ago, Many_Spaynes said:

And as George Costanza pointed out, you never have to worry about the pop-in visit

I just watched that episode.

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Seriously. I really think that was the line that got him convicted so easily. Normal people who don't download CP would never have a thought like that enter their heads. But it's the first thing that came to his little mind.  Guilty!

I don’t think the jury was allowed to hear that line.  I think the defense successfully kept it out of the case because he hadn’t been mirandized.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 1/4/2022 at 10:08 AM, Inthemadhouse said:

  He clearly doesn't like or respect her, and is seeking out a lifestyle that I don't ever see her commiting to.  

This is really interesting and I hadn't thought of this before.  She won't leave him for this or the stuff before, but had none of this happened and he left fundism for a mainstream life where they had a couple of kids and once they were in school they both worked, would she have gone along with that?  Or refused?  Wondering where her boundaries are.

On 1/4/2022 at 11:16 AM, Tatar-tot said:

Once the crazy girls who love incarcerated guys start sending him letters and funding his commissary account he will have little use for Anna or JB/M. 

I don’t see him getting less than 10 because that was what the feds offered him as a plea agreement.  I could easily see him sentenced 12-15. 

A plea deal was refused, but that it was 10 years is just speculation.  There has never been a source for this and I've looked.  (If I'm wrong someone please post it.)

7 hours ago, Marshmallow World said:

THANK YOU for pointing this out. I also want to add that a Judge will not tack on extra time for not taking a plea deal - every accused person is constitutionally entitled to a trial, and no judge can punish you for exercising that constitutional right. 

Thank you, it's such a urban legend that they have to give you more than the plea.  

38 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I don’t think the jury was allowed to hear that line.  I think the defense successfully kept it out of the case because he hadn’t been mirandized.

It was right before they started recording but the agent testified to it in court and it was also brought up again in closing arguments.  Not sure if it was in opening arguments or not, but it was mentioned at least twice.

[Cults-r-us]

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

This is really interesting and I hadn't thought of this before.  She won't leave him for this or the stuff before, but had none of this happened and he left fundism for a mainstream life where they had a couple of kids and once they were in school they both worked, would she have gone along with that?  Or refused?  Wondering where her boundaries are

I think she would have had 2 kids and found a job. Where he goes, she would follow. (And that would have been so much better).

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, Cults-r-us said:

I think she would have had 2 kids and found a job. Where he goes, she would follow. (And that would have been so much better).

I would like to think that life would be less horrifying to her than the one she ended up with, but I doubt it.

[noseybutt]

4 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

 

Scary. But thankfully he'll just be balding away in Federal prison for the remainder of his 30's.

Wasting sperm.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

6 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Yes.  Thinking that everything is out of your control is common. It's very common with unresolved trauma.  Someone with an external locus of control is not a bad or weak person; they simply believe nothing is within their control.
 

Multiple times a day I have to remind myself I’m in control of my life now, I have power. I’m not a kid anymore.

Part of me wonders if Josh prefers prison to life at home and life during his childhood. I remember Elizabeth Smart talking about being taken to the police station after her kidnapping, thinking she was going to go to jail/prison and ultimately deciding it would be a step up from being with her captors. Is Josh having similar thoughts?

For a bit of ES talking about prison skip to 43:00

 

9 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

Wasting sperm.

But every sperm is sacred! 
 

Spoiler

 

Minister of silly walks was as close as I could get

 

 

[Bobology]

14 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

5 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

 

Scary. But thankfully he'll just be balding away in Federal prison for the remainder of his 30's.

Wasting sperm.

Speaking of this, I wonder what JB/M tell their teens about nocturnal emissions. Is that considered spilling seed? Ew, is it possible JB or M conducted "bed checks" each morning or day?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, Bobology said:

Speaking of this, I wonder what JB/M tell their teens about nocturnal emissions. Is that considered spilling seed? Ew, is it possible JB or M conducted "bed checks" each morning or day?

I don't remember this being discussed, but the boys did sleep in their jeans, maybe that was to keep the bare mattresses clean.

There was a rumor a long time ago one of the boys was punished by having his hands tied together for the day because he spent too long in the bathroom and they caught him in self exploration.  He was a young teen at the time.

I remember feeling so bad for him.  This would have been discussed around the same time people were talking about Jubilee pregnancy announcement and JB grabbing Josiah's arm but not sure if it happened around then or was just brought up then.

My memory is being stupid and only giving me pieces of stuff tonight.

[justmy2cents]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

There was a rumor a long time ago one of the boys was punished by having his hands tied together for the day because he spent too long in the bathroom and they caught him in self exploration.  He was a young teen at the time.

But who would know this? Do you think it’s something that a young teen would be made to confess to in Church to embarrass him into never doing it again?

[purple_summer]

12 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

But who would know this? Do you think it’s something that a young teen would be made to confess to in Church to embarrass him into never doing it again?

I had a friend who had to confess to masturbating. He was 15. 

[justmy2cents]

4 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

I had a friend who had to confess to masturbating. He was 15. 

How terrible. These people are completely effed up.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

28 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

But who would know this? Do you think it’s something that a young teen would be made to confess to in Church to embarrass him into never doing it again?

It was a rumor from someone in the community, but I don't recall the specifics.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, justmy2cents said:

But who would know this? Do you think it’s something that a young teen would be made to confess to in Church to embarrass him into never doing it again?

Allegedly he busted by JB and a member of TLC film crew. The TLC crew member left his job and allegedly said that this had happened. 

[zee_four]

11 hours ago, Marshmallow World said:

THANK YOU for pointing this out. I also want to add that a Judge will not tack on extra time for not taking a plea deal - every accused person is constitutionally entitled to a trial, and no judge can punish you for exercising that constitutional right. 

A judge told me right before trial that "if I wasted his time with a trial he would make sure I got the full DOC charge" which would have meant prison or Department of Corrections as it was called in my state, for 35 years, which was the MMS, for a first time non violent offense. I took the damn plea because I got 90 days in jail and some of that was on house arrest and now I have a felony on my record for distribution of a schedule. It ruined my life but it ruined my life less. I get to see my son regularly who was not quite a year when I was sentenced. 

A judge won't come out and say "you didn't take the plea so I'm giving you extra time". A judge could be possed enough at the way he acted in court, showing he has no remorse and won't take responsibility, which depending on how his sentencing goes could be legitimate. Especially because he wasn't looking at barely adult teens he was

Spoiler

looking at the worst of worse of infants and toddlers.

But he's a white "Christian" male so there's that. When you go through the system you realize how much power judges have. Since this is a federal judge things might be different they're usually better than the state judges, especially in podunk places. But Smuggar would benefit from the kind of bias most of those podunk judges have. There's a lot of crap with sentencing and prosecutors and trials that is really messed up though still technically legal. Especially when you're BIPOC and don't have money for appeals. But judges have quite a bit of discretion with sentencing as long as its not "cruel and unusual" according to existing case law from the SCOTUS and as long as there's no MMS which mostly apply to drug crimes. If the max is let's say 20 years, and most of the time people get 10 that does not mean he will get 10. If I remember right uts usually 10 per count and you only get sentenced on one, but 15 instead of 10 is not unconstitutional and you can and often do get the max if you dont take a plea, because the people who do often still deny their guilt and have no remorse.