2020 Election Fallout 15: More Information Is Being Revealed About The Big Lie

[GreyhoundFan]

I love the characterization of Elise Stefanik as Gretchen Weiners:

More under spoiler:

Spoiler

 

[Cartmann99]

If you don't have your viewing plans for tonight already set in stone, here's a link to the January 6th Committee's YouTube page. The chat feature is already up and going.

[Howl]

The hearings are underway.  They are showing previously unseen footage with sound of the insurrection -- it's chilling, utterly chilling.  The mob is horrifying.  It makes me ill -- police calls becoming increasingly frantic and video of police being brutalized. 

This is video montage is absolutely more horrifying than anything I've seen until now. 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Howl

[formergothardite]

That video was chilling . Playing Trump’s words praising the rioters over clips of them beating the police is powerful. 

[CTRLZero]

I’m watching on C-Span.  I’m shaking with rage watching the invasion footage.  C-Span is sharing a few tweets, repubs mainly deflecting with “what about those gas prices.”  

[Howl]

Capitol Police Officer Caroline Edwards: "I was slipping in people's blood..."  

The blood she is referring to is the blood of her fellow police officers. 

She describes turning and seeing Officer Sicknick down, holding his face.  She was immediately concerned because when people are sprayed with pepper spray, their faces turn red.  She holds up a piece of paper and said that Sicknick's face was as white as that paper, not red. 

She was hit with pepper spray and then immediately  tear gassed.  This was after she was knocked backwards while bike racks were being breached, and hitting the back of her head on concrete steps, after the rack hit her in the face. 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Howl

[Xan]

The interesting thing to me was the documentary filmmaker talking about the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers marching to the Capitol before Trump even started speaking.  I think they're building the case that all of it was planned beforehand.  Of course, we here know this but maybe some of the general public doesn't.

[SassyPants]

Liz Cheney is very courageous. I may not agree with her politics but she is a strong and decent person. Why doesn’t the GOP put someone like her on the presidential ballot? I guess she just too smart, like Liz Warren.

36 minutes ago, Xan said:

The interesting thing to me was the documentary filmmaker talking about the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers marching to the Capitol before Trump even started speaking.  I think they're building the case that all of it was planned beforehand.  Of course, we here know this but maybe some of the general public doesn't.

Of course they are. Liars-

[Ozlsn]

17 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Why doesn’t the GOP put someone like her on the presidential ballot? I guess she just too smart, like Liz Warren.

She presents as female. They'll never put her up for the top job. She night show up some of the very mediocre and highly insecure men. Also her voice is wrong /s

[GreyhoundFan]

I had to handle a family issue, so I only got to see bits and pieces. I plan to catch up tomorrow. 
 

[Ozlsn]

Finally watched the video. The thing that stood out to me the most was Trump's declaration that there was so much love - for him there was. Best supply ever, who cares that people were killed and injured? 

That and geez, that was close.

[Howl]

10 hours ago, Xan said:

The interesting thing to me was the documentary filmmaker talking about the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers marching to the Capitol before Trump even started speaking.  I think they're building the case that all of it was planned beforehand.

My understanding is they were doing recon and were an advance team. 

The hearings are eye opening.  But keep in mind, none of the major players, planners, instigators, the coup plotters  (TRUMP, Giuliani, the Kraken, Flynn, Bannon,  everybody in the Willard Hotel "War Room" and dozens of others) have been indicted and arrested, with the exception of Navarro, who seems to have a congenital inability to Shut the Fuck Up. 

It was a damn coup, a well defined plan to overturn the results of an election at the highest level, to stop the peaceful transfer of power.  None of the coup instigators, the major players, the planners, the executors, have been indicted. The hearings are amazing, terrifying, horrifying.  But they are hearings. DoJ has to bring the juice and as far as I can tell, Garland isn't doing it and I suspect has zero inclination to ever bring charges against Trump. 

Also, on another level, fuck Liz Cheney, who voted against the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act, which is the "A side" of the peaceful transfer of power.  It's great she's being an advocate at the hearings, but if you don't have free and fair elections, the subsequent peaceful transfer of power is a sham. 

[formergothardite]

Has Trump responded at all? I’m sure he had a massive tantrum last night. They used his tweets against him and he loves those tweets more than he loved Ivanka before she turned on him. Jared came off as especially unlikeable. But I think he is ruthless and will turn on anyone to save himself. I wonder if Trump has realized Jared knows everything and is a major threat. 

[Alisamer]

36 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Has Trump responded at all? I’m sure he had a massive tantrum last night. They used his tweets against him and he loves those tweets more than he loved Ivanka before she turned on him. Jared came off as especially unlikeable. But I think he is ruthless and will turn on anyone to save himself. I wonder if Trump has realized Jared knows everything and is a major threat. 

There's probably a fierce debate going on about whether to build a wall around Mar-A-Lago and declare it it's own country, or to try to quick-like buy an island somewhere to do the same.

[Howl]

31 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I wonder if Trump has realized Jared knows everything and is a major threat. 

Trump claims Ivanka "checked out" and was long gone when the shit went down.  Jared would do well to remember that Trump has all the goods on him, as do many in Trump's White House.  Game of Thrones vs House of Cards vs nonspecified Mob Shit

Jared is a stone cold killer and profoundly corrupt. There is nothing in our experience and national experience in modern memory that prepared us for the level of corruption in the Trump White House and the level of corruption that the Trump White House allowed to flourish in our country. 

When I say Jared is a stone cold killer, there a good likelihood that he was somehow complicit with MBS on the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. 

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, Alisamer said:

There's probably a fierce debate going on about whether to build a wall around Mar-A-Lago and declare it it's own country, or to try to quick-like buy an island somewhere to do the same.

I won't be surprised if a plane whisks Trump off, in the dark hours, to a distant country where he already owns property.

[AlmostSavedAtTacoBell]

If Trump is publicly throwing Ivanka under the bus, imagine what is happening in private.  I have zero sympathy for her or Jared.  They were happy to profit off the name and participate in the corruption but now things are getting real.  I think they are both smarter and savvier than Trump so even with whatever dirt Trump may have on them, they will likely be able to outplay his hand but Ivanka's testimony paired with his insistence on responding to it rather than just remaining silent makes clear there is division in the family so it looks like Trump probably won't throw himself on the sword for his darling daughter as some thought might happen.  He has been shown that while she will choose her words carefully and try to avoid blatantly telling the truth, she also won't blatantly totally lie for him.  It really will get interesting and hopefully will be interesting in a good way for those of us who want to see justice, even if in small ways like seeing the Trumps lose property and money, finally start happening.  Yes, I want to see much more than just financial losses but right now I will take any win. 

[Howl]

this is super interesting thread on twitter about timing of the insurrection.  Timing of the attack and the precious, and pivotal, minutes bought by the arrival of bike cops, who helped push the mob back and put up barriers. 

Those pivotal few minutes bought by the bike cops allowed for the evacuation of legislators to a place of safety.  Another interesting thing -- the insurrectionists used yellow "don't Don't Tread on Me" flags to get their groups together and to signal what to do. 

At another key inflection point,  armored capitol police and an FBI SWAT team arrived.  Hand to hand combat went on for HOURS. 

"The invasion, though scary, failed quickly. Lawmakers evacuated one step ahead of invaders. Police got most doors closed quickly, and held at the tunnel. FBI SWAT arrived to help regain control. From this point, no more advances - just brutal fighting at the tunnel & N Doors."

Unroll: Some key points as we head into J6 hearings. The Capitol attack was 1) coordinated, 2) meant to be fast, and 3) derailed by a rapid police response that produced key delays. Watch here as democracy is saved by DC bike cops: momentum shifts after the first terrifying minutes.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Howl

[GreyhoundFan]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Has Trump responded at all? I’m sure he had a massive tantrum last night. They used his tweets against him and he loves those tweets more than he loved Ivanka before she turned on him. Jared came off as especially unlikeable. But I think he is ruthless and will turn on anyone to save himself. I wonder if Trump has realized Jared knows everything and is a major threat. 

Apparently he has been having a fit on "truth" social:

 

And apparently TS is banning people who post about last night's hearing. I love how TS says they promote free speech, when in reality, it's only if the free speech is in service of their orange lord and master.

 

 

More whining on TS:

Spoiler

 

 

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Scalise comes across as scared. He should be.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by GreyhoundFan

[Cartmann99]

 

[Cartmann99]

Mark your calendars:

 

[Ozlsn]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

Those pivotal few minutes bought by the bike cops allowed for the evacuation of legislators to a place of safety.  Another interesting thing -- the insurrectionists used yellow "don't Don't Tread on Me" flags to get their groups together and to signal what to do.

Watching the arrival of the bike cops it strikes me that while there were a core group who were definitely in on everything and what the plan was... there were also quite a few who essentially followed the mob, and who got out of the way of the police coming through as had been ingrained into them. The police car coming through with the siren you can see people moving back, and letting the bike cops have right of passage. Which is possibly another reason for some of the vitriol thrown at the police once the invasion was in progress, a sense of betrayal that they were supposed to be on "their" side and they'd even let them through!

Side note: life lesson, don't follow the mob unless you know what is happening (and how you'll get home). 

The flags though... that was organised, and coordinated. They built a tower to signal from ffs. I don't think I knew before now that they were signalling to  that level. I also hadn't realised Babbitt was shot breaking into the House - and how close the timelines were there.

[AlmostSavedAtTacoBell]

3 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

I also hadn't realised Babbitt was shot breaking into the House - and how close the timelines were there.

The mob was so close to the Reps. It was so infuriating when people were calling her a patriot “murdered” by a very astute and heroic security officer knowing that she was trying to break through the last barrier protecting the members of Congress. It was a damn good thing that her getting shot seemed to shock the members of that rabid group into freezing in their tracks and then retreating. When I dealt with people who tried to call her a hero/victim/patriot, I would point out how very close she and the others were to ALL of the Reps and then ask whether the person calling her a hero/victim/patriot really thought the members of that mob were going to be careful in selecting who among Reps, their staff, and security would be killed. I challenged that person to name every Rep and his/her political affiliation and describe him/her sufficiently to be able to know on sight who is an R or a D. That mob would have killed so many indiscriminately including Rs and their staff. It is very frightening how close they were to accomplishing it. (And once more-  a reminder that but for the incredibly brave and brilliant actions of Eugene Goodman, who led a mob in the opposite direction of Reps being evacuated who were just down a hallway away, there would have been a very different outcome. There were many heroic actions that day but he really stands out.) 

[GreyhoundFan]

"How the Jan. 6 hearing played out on the pro-Trump web"

Quote

Former president Donald Trump’s supporters scrambled to defend him online in the hours after the Jan. 6 committee’s hearings began, seeking to sow doubt about his involvement via the same social media channels that had captured clear evidence linking him to the Capitol assault.

In so doing, they reinforced the unmistakable role social media played in the 2021 insurrection and made clear that his supporters are determined to remain a major internet force, despite Trump’s ban from major platforms such as Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.

Trump War Room, a Twitter account once run by his reelection campaign, tweeted, “Trump and the rally had nothing to do with the Capitol breach!,” defying the House committee’s effort to pin responsibility for the riot squarely on Trump.

On the message board Patriots.win — a spinoff of TheDonald.win, where members had shared ideas on how to sneak guns into Washington before the riot — a popular thread Friday called Jan. 6 “the most patriotic thing I’ve ever seen” and said anyone who disagrees is “an enemy of the nation.”

And on pro-Trump channels on the chat service Telegram, supporters ridiculed the hearing as overly scripted or a partisan circus, if they mentioned it at all.

The outpouring of Trump support came in response to a hearing that brought together new testimony with previously unreleased footage to document both the gravity of the attack on the Capitol and Trump’s role in spurring it. It also underscored how the social media landscape has shifted in the 17 months since Trump was suspended by the leading online platforms for his role in fanning the violent attempts to overturn Joe Biden’s election as president.

For the most part, Trump and some of his most ardent backers were relegated to smaller platforms as they sought to respond.

The change was evident in the video montage the Jan. 6 committee showed of the attack, where a rioter could be heard shouting a Trump tweet over a megaphone to urge the crowd into the Capitol’s halls. The tweet, which Trump had sent minutes before, said that Vice President “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done” and that “USA demands the truth!”

Trump had used Twitter aggressively to rally his supporters to overturn what he falsely labeled a fraudulent election, tweeting in December 2020, “WE HAVE JUST BEGUN TO FIGHT!!!” and “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!”

Those tweets were widely shared by his fans, and congressional investigators on Thursday shared video testimony from rioters who said they saw them as calls to action. On Dec. 13, 2020, the day before the electoral college planned to seal President Biden’s victory, Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, emailed Arizona state lawmakers with links to a YouTube video, urging them to “put things right.”

On Jan. 6, 2021, Trump tweeted that states had “voted on a FRAUD. … BE STRONG!” It wasn’t until 2:38 p.m. that he finally urged the crowd via Twitter to “stay peaceful,” after rioters had already breached the Capitol in what a police officer said Thursday resembled a bloody “war scene.”

Later that evening, Trump tweeted: “These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots. … Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!” Two days later, Twitter and Facebook suspended his account, citing the risk that he would incite more violence.

An official inside Twitter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to discuss the topic, told The Washington Post on Friday that the company’s decision-makers had understood that Trump’s tweets were playing a role in encouraging violence, but had not known at the time that they were literally being read out loud by the rioters.

On Trump’s fledgling Twitter clone, Truth Social, he posted a dozen messages after the hearing, criticizing it for showing “only negative footage” of the brutal siege.

Starting at 6:50 a.m. Friday, Trump called former attorney general William P. Barr “weak and frightened” and deflected blame for the riot. He also spoke dismissively of his daughter Ivanka Trump, after she was shown on video at the hearing saying she believed there was no evidence of fraud that could overturn his loss.

She “was not involved in looking at, or studying, Election results,” he wrote. “She had long since checked out.”

Before the hearing, Trump wrote — or, in Truth Social lingo, “truthed” — that Jan. 6 “was not simply a protest, it represented the greatest movement in the history of our Country.” The morning after, he wrote that the assault “was not caused by me, it was caused by a Rigged and Stolen Election!”

But Trump could only shout to a diminished crowd: His Truth Social account has about 3 million followers, or less than 4 percent of the 88 million Twitter followers he had before his ban.

Joan Donovan, research director at Harvard’s Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy, suggested that it would be difficult to overstate the importance of Trump’s tweets to the events of Jan. 6. “The power of Trump’s tweets to tell people, much like a military general, where to go and to keep the pressure on was clear to researchers,” she said. “And it was very clear when he tweeted about exiting the building and going in peace that people did start to listen and did follow his directives.”

The platforms’ response in the days after the attack took away much of that power, Donovan said. “It wasn’t just Trump that was deplatformed,” but thousands of his supporters, and the social network Parler was removed from major app stores. “Trump’s infrastructure for messaging was blown apart that day. And it hasn’t quite been able to reassemble.”

Whether the major social networks allow Trump to return could have a profound effect on his ability to reorganize for a 2024 run, Donovan added.

While Facebook and YouTube suspended him indefinitely, leaving open the possibility that he could be back, Twitter issued a permanent ban, and Twitter spokesperson Trenton Kennedy said Friday that the company stands by that. However, the billionaire Elon Musk, who is in the process of acquiring Twitter, has said he would reinstate Trump.

Some users Friday argued that Truth Social, which has promoted itself as a free-speech sanctuary to rival what they call Twitter’s censorious “cancel culture,” had worked to squash discussion of the hearing outright.

Travis Allen, an information security analyst in Kentucky, said his Truth Social account was suspended minutes after he replied to Trump’s account there Thursday night with a reference to the Jan. 6 hearing.

Allen, who said he is not a Trump fan, said that he couldn’t remember specifically what he wrote but that he didn’t think it violated the site’s rules.

I didn’t “think the post was even notable,” he told The Washington Post on Friday. “It is the height of hypocrisy for Truth Social to claim to support ‘free speech’ and then ban users for talking about” the hearings.

Representatives for Trump Media & Technology Group, which owns Truth Social, did not respond to requests for comment.

The site on Friday did show some posts critical of Trump, though many others panned the congressional investigation as a “hoax.” In February, the site banned an account poking fun at former congressman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), who resigned from Congress to become chief of the Trump company, with a salary of $750,000 a year.

Before the hearing, some pro-Trump influencers urged their online followers to ignore it. Conservative radio host Dan Bongino posted to his Truth Social account a few minutes before the hearing started, “Don’t miss the hockey game tonight, it’s must-see TV!” That online attitude matched their cable counterparts on Fox News, which showed little of the hearing and labeled it an “anti-Trump show trial” and a “sham.”

After the hearing, Trump allies sought to discount the committee’s findings — based on 1,000 interviews, 140,000 documents and hours of visual evidence — as biased or flawed. Ali Alexander, a conservative activist who’d organized a “Stop the Steal” rally on Jan. 6 and testified to the committee in December, said on Truth Social that the committee had used edited videos and fake audio, without giving any evidence to back up those claims. “Have you ever seen a video with more fake edits and SPLICES?” he wrote.

The committee’s video featured long strings of previously unseen footage from police body cameras and Capitol surveillance cameras that revealed brawls in grisly detail. “We can’t hold this. We’re going to get too many f---ing people. … We’re f---ed,” one officer said.

But much of the video also came from social media, like Parler, the right-wing social network popular then with Trump supporters. In one clip, a man in a crowd encircling officers steps from the Capitol screams, “We were invited by the president of the United States.”