(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 43: Defense Rested After an Expert Witness with No Expertise

[Chickenbutt]

Just now, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

There are no cameras in federal courtrooms. 

I was hoping that was only for the trial part and we would get to see the actual verdict being read and the reactions of anyone and everyone present. I knew it was it was too much to ask. 

 

[Jewels64]

27 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

“Not guilty” means the state didn’t meet their burden- it doesn’t change the fact that he’s a POS.

 

there is absolutely support for survivors and always will be.

Casey Anthony was at a bear minimum guilty of child neglect. He case always makes me nervous. 

[mpheels]

2 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

I was hoping that was only for the trial part and we would get to see the actual verdict being read and the reactions of anyone and everyone present. I knew it was it was too much to ask. 

 

That’s exactly why cameras are not allowed. Federal judges generally see cameras as a distraction and invasive. Trials are pretty mundane most of the time, and judges like it that way. They don’t want the courtroom to become a soap opera set (see footage of Kyle Rittenhouse “crying” during his testimony). There have been several pilot projects allowing limited use of cameras under certain circumstances, and every time the court administrators decide to stick with the existing ban.

[karenb4729]

I'm guessing JB is sitting at home and crafting his statement about the verdict.  In light of the election next week it will be interesting to see how he spins it.

[waltraute]

I wonder if Michelle will show up tomorrow. 

[ncb]

37 minutes ago, mpheels said:

Or, rather than siphon money off already struggling school, we could give school systems the support they need so there are no bad districts.

My kids went to public school K-8 but for various reasons, they both started private high schools this fall. I do NOT support vouchers. I have chosen to send my kids to their schools but I am happy for my tax dollars to continue to support public schools. I made a decision for them, but I didn’t/don’t feel 100% politically unambiguous about it and I definitely know that vouchers would inevitably be misused and end you continuing to benefit already wealthier families. 

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, fundiesarefascinating said:

I can't even wrap my brain around what sort of conversation Anna and Smuggar would have when they are finally alone this evening. Completely unfathomable to me. 

Given what we have seen of them, I don’t think they have “conversations.”  He has monologues.  Occasionally, she may start a soft, whinny monologue of her own.  In between monologues, they exchange a few sentences about practical matters, such as where Josh’s favorite shirt is, or whether the kids need new shoes.  But mostly it is monologues except when Anna is being “joyfully available.”  

[neuroticcat]

59 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

You can love your children and still be a crappy parent. You can love your children and be in denial. YOu can love your children and make terrible decisions on their behalf.

No. You don’t actually love your children well if this is the case. This is like the “they did the best they could with what they had” cliche. Well, okay, but we can still objectively say the best (their “love”) is crappy.

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, Hane said:

Going OT to muse fondly about those long-gone, halcyon days when many of us assumed that Homeland Security had simply found evidence of financial shenanigans.

Paramilitias, insurrections, funding domestic terrorism. Oh, how young and innocent we were. 

[FiveAcres]

3 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Paramilitias, insurrections, funding domestic terrorism. Oh, how young and innocent we were. 

To quote one of my favorites:

"I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." 

[sndral]

1 hour ago, onekidanddone said:

I hope this judge has enough sense to remand the pest to jail until his sentencing. I see Josh as a flight risk and a danger to others 

Here is the Federal Statute that deals with whether someone is remanded following a jury conviction while awaiting sentencing 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3143

It is up to the Judge, but there are specific factors that he’ll consider in making that decision.

So far I’ve liked this Judge - other than when he let Josh out pretrial - I’m hoping that if Josh is convicted the Judge remands his ass - that’ll wipe that smug look off of Josh’s face.

I wonder if the Judge will caution the audience against outbursts in the courtroom prior to the verdicts being read. I’m guessing closing arguments will take around 3 hours - maybe less, instructions maybe 45 minutes - so the jury should get it by noon.

As for how long the jury will deliberate - you just never know. 

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

3 minutes ago, sndral said:

Here is the Federal Statute that deals with whether someone is remanded following a jury conviction while awaiting sentencing 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3143

It is up to the Judge, but there are specific factors that he’ll consider in making that decision.

So far I’ve liked this Judge - other than when he let Josh out pretrial - I’m hoping that if Josh is convicted the Judge remands his ass - that’ll wipe that smug look off of Josh’s face.

I wonder if the Judge will caution the audience against outbursts in the courtroom prior to the verdicts being read. I’m guessing closing arguments will take around 3 hours - maybe less, instructions maybe 45 minutes - so the jury should get it by noon.

As for how long the jury will deliberate - you just never know. 

Judges usually warn the audience not to show emotions when the verdict is being read.

[Satan'sFortress]

Quote

Defense attorney Justin Gelfand told jurors, "if you like a good mystery, this case is for you."

Quote

“This is equivalent of a trail of blood from a murder scene . . . It does not lead to Josh Duggar.” [Gefland]

'member these? They are not aging well. And they are only a week old.

[HarleyQuinn]

I'm worried he's going to get an Affluenza verdict and the jury will be like "he was raised with a warped view of sex" 18 month sentence.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

Just now, HarleyQuinn said:

I'm worried he's going to get an Affluenza verdict and the jury will be like "he was raised with a warped view of sex" 18 month sentence.

The jury will decide either guilty or not guilty.  The judge will do the sentencing if they find him guilty.  If he's found guilty, the judge will sentence with guidelines in mind and 18 months is way below the guidelines. 

[BensAllergies]

1 hour ago, sndral said:

So far I’ve liked this Judge - other than when he let Josh out pretrial - I’m hoping that if Josh is convicted the Judge remands his ass - that’ll wipe that smug look off of Josh’s face.

It was a different judge (a woman) who oversaw the bond hearing. It was a disappointment but I do believe it was an unbiased judgment. He was and is innocent (legally) and had proven not to be a flight risk. Also, the family has privilege and thus had a place for him to live that met the bond conditions. If he had been from a low socioeconomic background then it would have been different.

I also hope that the judge remands him into custody if he is convicted because it changes things. The bond judge implied that it was against her judgment to release him into the community just based on the prior molestation admission. Now he will have two major counts against him (molestation and CSAM).

Edited December 8, 2021 by BensAllergies
Didn’t finish my thought

[Dominionatrix]

First and foremost, I hope and pray that the jury sees the truth here.

If that happens, I hope the judge deciding whether to remand Josh knows that John David is a pilot. *
 

*All kidding aside, the Duggars have access to a ton of private planes and trained pilots, and have connections to some sketchy international missionary organizations. It’s maybe a stretch, but they have far greater means to help someone flee than most people.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Dominionatrix

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, vicky3vicky said:

I have been lurking off and on since 2015, especially since May,only posted once or twice, but I was wondering, if he is declared not guilty will there be support here for those who have experienced similar abuse? I am terrified he'll get off and don't know how well I'll handle it. I have been reading enough to now there are quite a few of us.

Obviously we can't function as an official support group of any kind, but if you're talking about a bunch of people who know the pain being there for each other then absolutely.  I am so sorry you've been through what you have, I'm glad you started posting.

I was thinking about this earlier as well, we will all rejoice in a guilty verdict but the trauma this has stirred up for many of us isn't going to go away when they leave the court room.  We need to be kind to each other and ourselves.

And as much as I can get caught up in my own head, reading what some of you have survived has me in awe at your strength and resilience.  You people are a bunch of bad asses meant as the highest compliment.  

16 minutes ago, sndral said:

Here is the Federal Statute that deals with whether someone is remanded following a jury conviction while awaiting sentencing 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3143

It is up to the Judge, but there are specific factors that he’ll consider in making that decision.

So far I’ve liked this Judge - other than when he let Josh out pretrial - I’m hoping that if Josh is convicted the Judge remands his ass - that’ll wipe that smug look off of Josh’s face.

I wonder if the Judge will caution the audience against outbursts in the courtroom prior to the verdicts being read. I’m guessing closing arguments will take around 3 hours - maybe less, instructions maybe 45 minutes - so the jury should get it by noon.

As for how long the jury will deliberate - you just never know. 

I believe it was a different judge pre-trial, or am I mistaken.  I thought it was a woman.

Edited December 8, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[mpheels]

3 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'm worried he's going to get an Affluenza verdict and the jury will be like "he was raised with a warped view of sex" 18 month sentence.

The jury doesn’t get to make a sentencing decision in this case. It’s up to the judge and the minimum is 5 years, IIRC. 
I’ve posted this before, but it bears repeating… federal charges require a grand jury indictment. That means a different jury drawn from the same NW Arkansas population already saw the prosecution’s preliminary case and determined there was enough evidence for a trial (i.e., they though Josh was likely guilty). The prosecutors case is even better argued this go round, and the defense hasn’t done much to debunk it.

[OrchidBlossom]

3 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I hope I can post a screen grab from Reddit here, because I’m reading there and thought this was a really interesting point. 

I can tell this person isn't a lawyer because none of this is remotely accurate. 

[karenb4729]

Before the gallery adjourned, KNWA/FOX24 spoke to Jim Bob Duggar, the defendant’s father, asking him about his thoughts on the day’s testimony.

“We just want the truth to come out,” he said. “And we appreciate your prayers for our family.”

[ElizaB]

How many charges are against him? Could it be possible that it takes the jury more time if they have to go through each and every charge? 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, ElizaB said:

How many charges are against him? Could it be possible that it takes the jury more time if they have to go through each and every charge? 

Two.  One for receiving and one for possessing.

[MaryOrMartha]

How much longer is the trial expected to go?

[karenb4729]

10 minutes ago, MaryOrMartha said:

How much longer is the trial expected to go?

It goes to the jury tomorrow and then however long it takes them to reach a verdict