(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 43: Defense Rested After an Expert Witness with No Expertise

[OrchidBlossom]

I can't find this alleged pickles outing, does anyone have screenshots? Or a link to discussion on reddit? Anything for a poor, beleaguered worker trying to talk to clients while simultaneously refreshing updates every two seconds?

[Dysfundamental]

2 minutes ago, Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing said:

Because what would Jesus do and think? (Which I now realize is a form of spiritual abuse).

Jesus threw the moneylenders out of the temple. I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through. 

[sixcatatty]

1 minute ago, gustava said:

Would  a lawyer comment on this notion that "doubt has to disappear"?

I hope it lost something from hearing to posting. Every doubt does not have to disappear; it's a reasonable doubt. In other words, you may continue to have doubts but are they reasonable? There's also a term called residual doubt which usually is argued in sentencing for less time.

Fellow lawyer peeps: I don't practice in the Eighth Circuit and can't get to Westlaw at the moment. Do their Pattern Instructions call for defining reasonable doubt?

[kokocat]

About to go to our school's Christmas program. Hoping for a verdict by the time it's done.

[3KidsAndStopped]

Six reasons

The first reason Gelfand noted was the universal plug and play, saying Fottrell testified it would make a network more vulnerable. He noted that the HP computer had plug and play enabled and that its network through the connected router was vulnerable.

Gelfand added as a second reason that the HP streams through a router. He said every video file was streamed and that, while confusing, the data was critical.

"The real evidence is on the router," Gelfand said.

He noted that too much was at stake for Josh Duggar and that the router would tell them what devices were connected.

"Why don't we have the router?" he asked, claiming that the government did nothing to consider remote access.

Gelfand said both experts agreed to the possibility of remote access and that the prosecution didn't mention the forensic data in their closing argument.

@HerNameIsBuffy get those shots ready!

Edited December 8, 2021 by 3KidsAndStopped

[TheJewAmongUs]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Was Huckabee governor then?

Jul 1996 - Jan 2007.

And Jim Bob was in office Jan 1999 - Jan 2003.

Huckabee also has or has a close relationship with Gothard. He's endorsed Gothard's programs, says he's done the Basic Life Seminar and brought the IBLP prison ministry into Arkansas when he was governor.

[Cheetah]

4 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I can't find this alleged pickles outing, does anyone have screenshots? Or a link to discussion on reddit? Anything for a poor, beleaguered worker trying to talk to clients while simultaneously refreshing updates every two seconds?

https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/rbxigm/while_everyones_distracted_pickles_just_outed/

[CanadianMamam]

6 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

I hope they somehow see this and know there are people celebrating their courage.

I have seen people using #istandwithjill on Instagram, including in comments on her post. So I hope she feels the support.

[3KidsAndStopped]

Size and timing

Gelfand continued with a third reason. He said the small size of the partition suggested whoever set it up knew it was not big enough to keep videos and images.

He claimed that activity was inconsistent with Duggar and made no sense.

Gelfand then noted the short time period of the alleged crimes. He said everything happened over three days in May 2019.

[justmy2cents]

If I’m feeling sick to my stomach I can’t imagine the tension in that courthouse.

[neuroticcat]

Man the video in the nwahomepage of them all walking into the courtroom is such a reminder of how exploited the children were. Seeing them on cameras again in this instance as grown adults is just gut wrenching. 

[viii]

I wonder how much longer it will be. I wish we knew that at 2:00 pm, we'd have a decision. This waiting game is killing me. 

Please lord, let there be justice. 

[3KidsAndStopped]

Is it just me or was it a really REALLY stupid thing to say that the prosecution depends on Josh being in front of a computer. They pretty much categorically proved that

[HarleyQuinn]

Pickles revealing her name at this time is...weird. 

[TuringMachine]

4 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

"The real evidence is on the router," Gelfand said.

He noted that too much was at stake for Josh Duggar and that the router would tell them what devices were connected.

"Why don't we have the router?" he asked, claiming that the government did nothing to consider remote access.

It's annoying that they're allowed to just say shit like that. 

2 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

He claimed that activity was inconsistent with Duggar and made no sense.

inconsistent with a known pedophile? 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

"Gelfand spoke for the defense for approximately 90 minutes. He reiterated all the points the defense has been making throughout the trial.

Shocked he could pad that to 90 minutes.

[3KidsAndStopped]

Potentially distressing

Spoiler

Deletion of the material

Defense attorney Gelfand's fifth reason was the immediate deletion of one of the files.

He noted that the 33-minute video of child sexual abuse in question was sent to the trash 29 seconds in and deleted.

Gelfand said not all of the files were in the trash or computer and that Michele Bush claimed they were moved by remote access. "The forensic trail clearly answers that," Gelfand told jurors.

 

sixth reason

Finally, Gelfand had a sixth reason for the jurors.

Over a five-year period, he noted, on Josh Duggar's iPhone and Macbook, there was no forensic trace of child sexual abuse material being downloaded or viewed.

He noted that Fottrell said it could have been wiped clean, but there was no forensic evidence of that.

[MedicineWoman]

3 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

Man the video in the nwahomepage of them all walking into the courtroom is such a reminder of how exploited the children were. Seeing them on cameras again in this instance as grown adults is just gut wrenching. 

Do you know who the guy was that walked in behind Jason?

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

3 minutes ago, Dysfundamental said:

Jesus threw the moneylenders out of the temple. I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through. 

Thank you. Oddly enough it was was my various physical and mental health problems that got a lot of the family off my back, so to speak. That and my psychiatrist and psychologist both recommending staying away from my abusers that got the point across to some. (Also, as strange as it may be to say this… Being diagnosed with ASD has seriously been one of the best things to have ever happened to me. For most in my family it was almost like, ‘oh, okay that’s why you’re like that).

3 minutes ago, viii said:

I wonder how much longer it will be. I wish we knew that at 2:00 pm, we'd have a decision. This waiting game is killing me. 

Please lord, let there be justice. 

Amen. 

[Mama Mia]

49 minutes ago, DCM said:

Seperate question but its something I have been curious about. They mentioned finding adult pornography on some of his devices which is obviously completely legal, BUT they did not mention what type of pornography it was. Hypothetically, if you have a CSAM case like this and the accused accessed other pornography that involved genres such as Teen, Young, Barely 18, incest/taboo etc. would that information be considered relevent? Like technically 18+ explicit material between non-related adults is legal however could it be said that it showed a pattern of seeking out childlike performers and/or roleplaying scenes to establish his sexual preferences? That evidence would more readily bridge the gap between the original molestations to the current CSAM with other material fulfilling those desires for him regardless of their legal technicality? 

That seems like a really bad idea. Way too easy for multiple jurors to then get the idea he might have accidentally downloaded the bad stuff he found, going off similar (legal) searches,  and then just tried to get rid of it. 
 

Something I thought was interesting — if Anna got a notice that Josh was downloading torrent or whatever  in his personal devices - but appears not to have gotten notices about the porn ( somehow this bypassed covenant eyes) ….was he testing out the legal adult porn on the easy viewing devices just to see if she would get notices - before moving on to the very bad things? 

[Beermeet]

6 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/rbxigm/while_everyones_distracted_pickles_just_outed/

What a werido.  We knew this already tho. I forgot her last name.  

[neuroticcat]

Just now, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Potentially distressing

  Hide contents

Deletion of the material

Defense attorney Gelfand's fifth reason was the immediate deletion of one of the files.

He noted that the 33-minute video of child sexual abuse in question was sent to the trash 29 seconds in and deleted.

Gelfand said not all of the files were in the trash or computer and that Michele Bush claimed they were moved by remote access. "The forensic trail clearly answers that," Gelfand told jurors.

 

This feels like a stupid argument for the defense. If McBurglar remotely did all this, why do we care they deleted a video 29 seconds in or whatever?  If it’s supposed to imply Josh somehow discovered it and deleted it what-a-good-boy-am-I, it fails because it reveals he knew about the partition, watched something to delete it, and then never reported it. I don’t understand what they are trying to do by pointing this out.

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, JuanitaBanana said:

Defense arguments:

The router! Aliens! Someone in France! Don't forget about the router!!! 

Who else keeps thinking of the Coneheads in Saturday Night Live? 😉
 

(They were a family of aliens who always claimed they were from France.)

[TuringMachine]

I like how pickles is still trying to justify the shitting thing she said about Jill earlier 

[Antipatriarch]

19 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

He noted that each juror had the power to say no if they had a single reasonable doubt in their minds. "You have the courage to say no," he said.

Quote

"Why don't we have the router?" he asked, claiming that the government did nothing to consider remote access.

And there is their only remaining desperate hope. (1) A lone holdout hangs the jury. (2) The jury can be swayed to think this is some kind of a conspiracy.

I'm feeling pretty good about odds of conviction.