(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 43: Defense Rested After an Expert Witness with No Expertise

[byzant]

Jury now in delibration sorry for the spoilers on mobile never mind you guys are way ahead of me 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by byzant
R

[TheJewAmongUs]

2 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

I was skeptical until I dove into Laura’s Instagram last night. She is all in personally and professionally. All the families, as we know, go way way back, and I believe, are still connected to IBLP and each other - just more savvy about the publicity. I think the Duggars are all still fully in (Duggars attend all family conferences). The younger generation seems to have distanced in some ways, but until I see public disavowing from anyone, I think it is all normal to them - if nothing else the relationships can’t be left behind - they’ve all intermarried. 
 

I don’t know how IBLP leaders feel about Duggars being the well known reps of their brand at this point, but I imagine Duggars still bring people in. I’m only half joking about Laura being a minder. I think she mainly travels around and fellowships with various families and IBLP headquarters for extended periods of time. She seems to be close friends with Duggars for a long time, but she also has strong vested interest in public face of IBLP.

There's a story out there about how Gothard showed up at a family conference just to see his friends, and Gil ushered him into a room, berated him, called the cops and forced him to leave. I believe the source is Gothard's assistant, so make of it what you will.

To me it doesn't show that Gil doesn't still believe in everything Gothard taught. But that Gil knows that associating with Gothard is a PR nightmare. The Bates especially have a very carefully crafted public image.

I think that Gil knows that associating with the Duggars could bring negative attention to IBLP. But at the same time I think he has a thin line to tread between keeping them in the fold and celebrating their involvement too much.

[SamanthasMom]

You have to wonder what the family is thinking, probably lots of conflicting emotions. Also, I cannot believe that Mother of the Year Michelle has not shown up once.

[FiveAcres]

6 minutes ago, TheJewAmongUs said:

I think that Gil knows that associating with the Duggars could bring negative attention to IBLP. But at the same time I think he has a thin line to tread between keeping them in the fold and celebrating their involvement too much.

Also, I've got to believe that the patriarchs in this evil little cult know all of each other's dirt. It's mutual assured destruction if they start bringing anything up. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by FiveAcres
grammar, dammit! I don't even have the excuse of mobile.

[3KidsAndStopped]

1 minute ago, SamanthasMom said:

You have to wonder what the family is thinking, probably lots of conflicting emotions. Also, I cannot believe that Mother of the Year Michelle has not shown up once.

She is probably brainwashing the next generation minding the Ms

Seriously, the sun reporter must be having a sleep or something!

[EmmieJ]

I agree with other posters who have speculated that Michelle is either a) pretending nothing is wrong and hiding from reality in her bedroom; b) raging at whoever is unlucky enough to be at the house with her; or c) has had a mental break because she cannot deal with what is happening and the loss of her status among fundies.  She doesn't care about the secular world, but she sure loved all the praise and adoration for having as many babies as possible.  

Do you think she is going to their local grocery store or other shops right now?  I can imagine she gets a lot of side eye.

[neuroticcat]

30 minutes ago, Xan said:

Right after I put my Alzheimered mom into a facility -- and yes, I was the one who visited her every day and made sure she was taken care of -- I had a conversation with someone who was close friends with my younger sister.  She said that her own mother had said to be extra nice to my sister because our mother was the most cruel and selfish woman she'd ever seen.  You're right.  The validation meant a lot to me.  I felt that everyone else thought she was okay.  That they saw she wasn't okay made me feel less crazy.

The validation means so much. I remember as a child we went out to a restaurant once, and my mom was exceptionally rude to the employee (outside the home, the only times the mask really slipped  were when the “help” was unsatisfactory). Anyway, I had to go up the counter for more napkins or something, and the employee just said, “I’m sorry that she is your mom.” 

It would be decades before I could even name the abusive dynamics to myself or others, and certainly no one “close” to us ever suspected. But these stranger’s words were a lifeline then and I still tear up a bit decades later. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

I don’t know enough about prosecution/defense, but could it mean that whoever was going to press charges dropped the case because the Holts testimony would be damning for the defense? Is she maybe implying the Duggars were powerful enough to get the case to go away?

Was Huckabee governor then?

[ContrastingButtons]

May justice prevail and Josh go to jail - for a very, very, long time.

 

 

[3KidsAndStopped]

Defense closing argument

Before the jury went into deliberation, the defense team presented its closing arguments.

Justin Gelfand noted that the defendant has no burden of proving anything and that the prosecution had to dispel reasonable doubt - that every doubt had to disappear unanimously.

He noted that each juror had the power to say no if they had a single reasonable doubt in their minds. "You have the courage to say no," he said.

He made a comparison between computer forensics and DNA and said they followed the evidence "together

[Cheetah]

CC McCandless's update is out:

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/josh-duggar-trial-day-6-jury-deliberations-underway-for-duggars-child-porn-charges/

[imokit]

Defence - be brave, just say no, just because.

[karenb4729]

I know there are probably people on the jury who aren't tech savvy which is the same in my case.  I know enough to manage my computer but once you get into talking partitions thatnyou start to lose me.  If I were on the jury here is my thinking - tech stuff all day long that I don't really understand will not stick in my head however timelines of actions such as text, viewing, pictures all would be what my logical brain would hold on to in making a determination of guilt or innocence because that is most understandable.  The Prosecution did a good job in this case of breaking things down and asking questions in clear concise manner.  The presented a timeline that truly makes sense for even the less techy of the jury.  Hope and pray for a guilty verdict.

[Cheetah]

Just now, Cheetah said:

CC McCandless's update is out:

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/josh-duggar-trial-day-6-jury-deliberations-underway-for-duggars-child-porn-charges/

Notably, "Gelfand spoke for the defense for approximately 90 minutes. He reiterated all the points the defense has been making throughout the trial. Gelfand said the investigator in the case ignored other possible suspects because “they were so star struck about the possibility of prosecuting Josh Duggar.” "

[gustava]

4 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

dispel reasonable doubt - that every doubt had to disappear unanimously.

Would  a lawyer comment on this notion that "doubt has to disappear"?

[3KidsAndStopped]

House of cards'

Gelfand continued, saying the prosecution's case depends on Duggar being behind the computer. "If not, their case crumbles like a house of cards," he added.

Gelfand noted that Michele Bush and James Fottrell agreed that remote access was a possibility, adding that Bush was not able to rule out remote access.

He then went over six reasons why remote access was a possibility

[alwayscaffeinated]

I can’t check often due to work today. I have a knot in my gut.

[Sops2]

Who would have thought that Derick would turn out to be the sharpest dresser at the courthouse?

Smart suits ( not just one) white or blue business shirts, matching tie and belt, tie clip, good shoes, overcoat on cold mornings with a tartan scarf over his shoulder. He's looking the part of a successful lawyer- lets hope he passes the bar at the next shot. He's showing himself to be steady and reliable and above all professional.- and a diligent worker providing for his family  !!!! 

Who would ever thought he would turn out like this?

[TheJewAmongUs]

3 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Also, I've got to belief that the patriarchs in this evil little cult know all of each other's dirt. It's mutual assured destruction if they start bringing anything up. 

Gil has spent 15+ years in his Nathan Bedford Forrest tribute room laughing at the people who make memes about side hugs, paper plates, mustard cardigans and hairspray, all the while running IBLP in the shadows. He's courting elected officials and billionaires to keep the organization funded and their agenda moving forward.

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

37 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

This is awesome...this lady is giving the Duggars hell! She's a survivor

 

“You can be a believing Christian and you can distance yourself from people that are toxic; people who are hurtful and harmful.” (8:59)

I could not agree more with this. As a Christian who actively avoids certain family members and any situations where they might be… What she said really resonated with me. I’ve had others (mostly other family members), tell me to forgive and forget. Because what would Jesus do and think? (Which I now realize is a form of spiritual abuse). It took me quite some time to realize that Jesus would understand, that God understands why I have to cut almost all contact with some of my family. I basically only see them one day out of the year, at the family reunion (with the last two being canceled). My abuse was/is emotional and mental and it is so frustrating that so many in my family completely dismiss how horrible and destructive it can be to a person’s mental well-being. Especially when they try to excuse the abuse due to the abuser’s own mental illness. Just because you’re mentally ill (which I am) doesn’t mean you get a pass at treating people like dirt. 

Sorry for this is so poorly written. I can’t get the words out right. 

I hope and pray that justice will be served today. 

[neuroticcat]

22 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Thought this was awesome...shamelessly stolen from a 19KAC page on facebook. 

I hope they somehow see this and know there are people celebrating their courage.

[Beermeet]

2 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

The validation means so much. I remember as a child we went out to a restaurant once, and my mom was exceptionally rude to the employee (outside the home, the only times the mask really slipped  were when the “help” was unsatisfactory). Anyway, I had to go up the counter for more napkins or something, and the employee just said, “I’m sorry that she is your mom.” 

It would be decades before I could even name the abusive dynamics to myself or others, and certainly no one “close” to us ever suspected. But these stranger’s words were a lifeline then and I still tear up a bit decades later. 

It's everything.   I started speaking up and calling her out because the validation is that she was doing this to my grandmother now and I didn’t like that. I didn't want her to deal with that but didn’t want to worsen things either. Mom started saying gma was sleeping every time I called so I got family involved to solve that. I normally would never.  Let the world know is my motto now, I'm not covering anymore.  

[Father Son Holy Goat]

Caught up! And now I’m off to my 1.5 hour meeting 

[kesmom]

Man, I wish I could get a phone notification when the jury is done. 

[punkiepie]

3 minutes ago, gustava said:

Would  a lawyer comment on this notion that "doubt has to disappear"?

It’s just wrong. Flat out wrong. Reasonable doubt is the standard- as in, nothing gives you pause.