Katie & Travis 3: Married and Expecting to be Expecting Soon….

[Melissa1977]

I know it's speculation. But I have always had the feeling that Katie was courting because she was expected to, not because she really wanted. All the sisters were married, she doesn't seem to have many friends, what else could she do? Plus Katie has always looked very desinterested in homemaking and she's not very romantic. That's why she doesn't look as thrilled as her sisters about marriage, setting a house etc.

In addition, I imagine the mega-pressure Gil and Kelly put on that relationship since the very first moment. Oh those two are obsessed about marrying their daughters into well-off fundie families. In such a patriarcal, cultish family, was Katie free to decide? 

[GreenBeans]

19 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

I never really got homesick when I went to university. The one time I was homesick was on my year abroad… I freaking hated it. My feelings about it didn’t improve whilst I was out there. But at least it was only temporary. I can’t imagine being stuck in an unhappy marriage in the Quiverfull cult where divorce is so hugely discouraged.

I’ve never been homesick in my life - even though I went to summer camp for a week the first time at 6 years old. My parents were so worried I’d be missing them, and it wasn’t too far away so they would have been able to come get me. But apparently I loved it, and when I returned and got off the bus, I was like “Oh. Hi. I wanted to stay longer, do we HAVE to go home now?”. 😂

Even when I lived in places I didn’t like, I was miserable about the circumstances, but not about being away from home really.

So I guess it’s a matter of personality mostly. The thing is: I was able to explore what it was like to be away from my family gradually. Summer camps, school trips, a holiday with just my grandma without my parents, going to uni, living abroad in a dorm, moving to another city on my own, living abroad on my own, living in China on my own for several months (that was the ultimate challenge 😁). So I knew what I was comfortable with, I could gradually step out of my comfort zone and explore new places and experience new things. I wasn’t expected to go from zero to 100 over night, and I always knew if I REALLY didn’t like a place or a situation, there would always be a way out, worst case I’d always be able to return home. 
 

Being thrown into married life, living on your own, with a person you hardly know, in a new city far away from family and friends, without ever having practiced this kind of independence before, and without a way out - I can see how this would be daunting, and how someone not that adventurous would be miserable.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I’ve never been homesick in my life - even though I went to summer camp for a week the first time at 6 years old. My parents were so worried I’d be missing them, and it wasn’t too far away so they would have been able to come get me. But apparently I loved it, and when I returned and got off the bus, I was like “Oh. Hi. I wanted to stay longer, do we HAVE to go home now?”. 😂

Even when I lived in places I didn’t like, I was miserable about the circumstances, but not about being away from home really.

So I guess it’s a matter of personality mostly. The thing is: I was able to explore what it was like to be away from my family gradually. Summer camps, school trips, a holiday with just my grandma without my parents, going to uni, living abroad in a dorm, moving to another city on my own, living abroad on my own, living in China on my own for several months (that was the ultimate challenge 😁). So I knew what I was comfortable with, I could gradually step out of my comfort zone and explore new places and experience new things. I wasn’t expected to go from zero to 100 over night, and I always knew if I REALLY didn’t like a place or a situation, there would always be a way out, worst case I’d always be able to return home. 
 

Being thrown into married life, living on your own, with a person you hardly know, in a new city far away from family and friends, without ever having practiced this kind of independence before, and without a way out - I can see how this would be daunting, and how someone not that adventurous would be miserable.

I think that’s the worst part. She’s stuck. If she had moved across TN to college and realized how homesick she was, she could transfer to a college near home and live there. She would realize she wants to stay close to home. Hell even if she married someone 90 minutes away from Gil and Kelly, she could easily drive there when she’s lonely. But she’s states away. She can’t just get in a car and go. And Travis is still living like a kid under his family’s control. So he won’t move for her. And she can’t get divorced. I feel bad for her.

[CanadianMamam]

I was homesick immediately when I went to college and went to a school close enough that I went home almost every week.

I think living with one other person is a huge change for Katie. She has lived in a house with 11+ other people her entire life, so suddenly going to just her and one other person is a change and then she is on her own all day without a job or anything to fill her time. I am not sure it has anything to do with her marriage being unhappy and more that the living situation is a HUGE change.

[JDuggs]

45 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

I was homesick immediately when I went to college and went to a school close enough that I went home almost every week.

I think living with one other person is a huge change for Katie. She has lived in a house with 11+ other people her entire life, so suddenly going to just her and one other person is a change and then she is on her own all day without a job or anything to fill her time. I am not sure it has anything to do with her marriage being unhappy and more that the living situation is a HUGE change.

I agree with you. I don’t think she has any problem with marriage or Travis. She’s just bored and lonely. Probably every young person she knows in NJ in at work or in school all day. I know she spends time on her social media influencer things, but that seems to be kind of isolating too. She needs a part-time job in some type of boutique just for the social interaction.

[Keys]

1 minute ago, JDuggs said:

I agree with you. I don’t think she has any problem with marriage or Travis. She’s just bored and lonely. Probably every young person she knows in NJ in at work or in school all day. I know she spends time on her social media influencer things, but that seems to be kind of isolating too. She needs a part-time job in some type of boutique just for the social interaction.

I do wonder if she plans to get a job or start volunteering, or something along those lines? It doesn’t seem from her social media that she does much otherwise - nail appointments, going out for dinners, doing things here and there with Travis and his family, but otherwise I wonder how she spends her days. 

[Jigsaw3]

Here's another question: does Katie have a car? I mean, her own car, not just sharing with Travis?

That will make a huge difference in how free she is to explore her new neighbourhood, find a job, find new friends, volunteer, etc. It also matters how walkable her area is: I got the impression it's pretty suburban/rural, but I welcome any corrections. I certainly have never seen her on public transit.

So far I've only seen the two of them in a black sedan (although I thought maybe there was a reference to "his truck" around the wedding - again, correct me if I'm wrong.) Katie has frequently driven it without Travis, especially when she had guests, but now that he's back in school does he need it to get to school? If she wants it during the day, does she have to drop him off at school and then pick him up afterwards in order to make it possible? Travis seems quite willing to share, but it's definitely a pain.

When Nurie Rodrigues married Nathan Keller, they lasted about three months into their marriage before getting her her own car. In Katie's case, do they have the ability to get her car? Because if not, she may also be feeling trapped without transportation on days when Travis has the car.

 

[CanadianMamam]

 

2 minutes ago, Jigsaw3 said:

Here's another question: does Katie have a car? I mean, her own car, not just sharing with Travis?

That will make a huge difference in how free she is to explore her new neighbourhood, find a job, find new friends, volunteer, etc. It also matters how walkable her area is: I got the impression it's pretty suburban/rural, but I welcome any corrections. I certainly have never seen her on public transit.

So far I've only seen the two of them in a black sedan (although I thought maybe there was a reference to "his truck" around the wedding - again, correct me if I'm wrong.) Katie has frequently driven it without Travis, especially when she had guests, but now that he's back in school does he need it to get to school? If she wants it during the day, does she have to drop him off at school and then pick him up afterwards in order to make it possible? Travis seems quite willing to share, but it's definitely a pain.

When Nurie Rodrigues married Nathan Keller, they lasted about three months into their marriage before getting her her own car. In Katie's case, do they have the ability to get her car? Because if not, she may also be feeling trapped without transportation on days when Travis has the car.

 

Katie does have her own car. They drove it back from Tennessee but she stated in a video that she isn't really comfortable driving alone in New Jersey yet. 

[PurpleCats]

She’s pretty young and driving in a city is way different than driving in rural Tennessee.  I don’t blame her for not feeling comfortable driving there.  It would be nice if she could get a part time job - even just a barista at a coffee shop or something - so she could meet other people.  However, that might expose her to different points of view and that is bad. Also, women.. WORKING.  /s

[Guanabana]

1 hour ago, PurpleCats said:

She’s pretty young and driving in a city is way different than driving in rural Tennessee.  I don’t blame her for not feeling comfortable driving there.  It would be nice if she could get a part time job - even just a barista at a coffee shop or something - so she could meet other people.  However, that might expose her to different points of view and that is bad. Also, women.. WORKING.  /s

Travis sister and sister-in-law work at the family’s Christian school. It would be nice if they could find at least a part time job for Katie. During their house tour video Katie noted the sink in their laundry room. She said Travis had installed it in case she wanted to do hair at home in the future.

[HereticHick]

6 hours ago, Keys said:

I do wonder if she plans to get a job or start volunteering, or something along those lines? 

I would love for her (and many other fundy girls like her) to start volunteering--but frankly, the Bates have been taught all their lives that simply breathing is "a ministry" and I think IBLP frowns on volunteering other than passing out tracks (or intentured servitude at an IBLP facility back in the day) or harrassing women's health clinics.

Katie's excuse is probably "oh there is no point starting to volunteer somewhere because I might get pregnant any day now so I shouldn't commit to anything"

PS I just got back from buy something from my favorite resale shop, whose main mission is to outfit and prepare folks reentering the workforce (usually from prison or rehab). You know what would be a real ministry, Katie with a cosmetology degree? Volunteering with a charity like that.

[Tdoc72]

2 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

 

Katie does have her own car. They drove it back from Tennessee but she stated in a video that she isn't really comfortable driving alone in New Jersey yet. 

We can be aggressive!! They live several towns over from me and I can just imagine the culture shock for her. My kids say I’m stalking them, even though I only follow them on SM, here, and Primetimer. I’ve never tried to go to their house or anything and probably would only covertly stare at them if I ever did run into them.  I do enjoy annoying my teens, when I tell them where Trav & Katie were. It makes them cranky which makes me laugh. Last week they were at my daughters fav restaurant. And they’ve gone to Top Golf a few times, which is very close to me. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Schools are perfect places for volunteering. Most schools could use some extra hands. The fact that she isn’t volunteering at their school is surprising. 

[Tdoc72]

46 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Schools are perfect places for volunteering. Most schools could use some extra hands. The fact that she isn’t volunteering at their school is surprising. 

She was supposed to be helping in the refreshment stand of their church’s basketball tournament but I saw everyone else working and her shooting video for the gram. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[GreenBeans]

14 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

and then she is on her own all day without a job or anything to fill her time. I am not sure it has anything to do with her marriage being unhappy and more that the living situation is a HUGE change.

I hadn’t even thought about that, but you’re completely right! When I moved to a different city or went to live abroad, I always had something to do there - I went to university or language school or had a job. So I didn’t have much time to even think about getting homesick, and I certainly wasn’t bored. Also, I met other people who were in the same situation - being an exchange student, starting university, working at the same company etc. So it wasn’t that hard to make new friends or at least have people to spend time with. I imagine it’s much harder when the only people you know are your husband and inlaws, and you’re basically expected to get pregnant ASAP, so there’s no point in finding other things to do.

 Do fundies make friends in church? Wouldn’t she be involved in church activities and meet people that way?

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:40 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I am still very much a supporter of birth control and not letting god decide your family size. But the Clarks are a good example of what happens when fundies have small families. Since there are only three kids, they can keep them all in line and control them much easier. When you look at very large families like the Duggars and the Bateses, there’s no way you can completely control all 19 kids. It’s just impossible. And that’s when you get kids like Jill Duggar. There are other small fundie families that keep the control over their few children. Families like the Collingsworths. They all have done exactly what is expected from their parents. It’s so much easier to control your children when you only have a few, and when you force them to marry young. And that’s what the Clarks did. 

Jill Duggar? She married her father's prayer partner after her father set them up. I'm not trying to undermine Jill's progress, but it's kind of how things just worked out. I support her journey, but I don't think she necessarily decided to become a rebel.

[CaptainFunderpants]

23 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I’ve never been homesick in my life - even though I went to summer camp for a week the first time at 6 years old. *snip*

So I guess it’s a matter of personality mostly. *snip*

And here I've often felt homesick even while being at home. Nothing to do with any bad environment, for some reason afternoon showers always just make me get that homesick knot in my stomach. But it'll happen at other times too.

I don't know if I would say personality so much as constitution. Because I have a very happy, bubbly, make-the-best-of-it personality, but I've always been prone to that homesick feeling. Even if I'm at home or just somewhere for a few hours.

[just_ordinary]

On 2/5/2022 at 3:25 PM, Melissa1977 said:

I don't think so, except if the abuse was extreme (AKA very heavy beatings or putting life in danger). And even in that case, they would be ashamed of their daughter. Kelly and Gil look kind, but their views are radical.

I have my doubts about the sons. I'm not saying they are/will be abusers at all, but some of them don't seem as good as their sisters' husbands.

With the show being cancelled the chances of G&K intervening has shrunk even more. Public exposure and interest forced them to put up a facade. If Katie would be visibly struggling or looking for help, they would have had to help her, even with gritted teeth and lots of shaming behind close doors. Now, they can just pray with her over the phone or send a text with some nice bs lines and ignore a bad situation. 
I mean, at this point it’s all just speculation. There are no reasons to believe Katie is in an abusive situation as of now.

Edited February 7, 2022 by just_ordinary

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Jill Duggar? She married her father's prayer partner after her father set them up. I'm not trying to undermine Jill's progress, but it's kind of how things just worked out. I support her journey, but I don't think she necessarily decided to become a rebel.

But my point is that they can’t control their adult children as much as they would like. They couldn’t keep Jill from going to another country without them. They couldn’t keep her from getting real therapy. They couldn’t keep her from putting Israel in public school. They can’t control all of their kids now. It’s just impossible since there are so many. 

[CanadianMamam]

5 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Jill Duggar? She married her father's prayer partner after her father set them up. I'm not trying to undermine Jill's progress, but it's kind of how things just worked out. I support her journey, but I don't think she necessarily decided to become a rebel.

I agree but I also think Jill was the easy one and so her parents didn't worry about her leaving. They focused more on Jessa, who was stubborn, and some of the other kids. With 19 kids you can't keep them all under your control, but with 3, it is a lot easier.

[Jackie3]

On 2/6/2022 at 1:18 AM, Melissa1977 said:

I know it's speculation. But I have always had the feeling that Katie was courting because she was expected to, not because she really wanted. All the sisters were married, she doesn't seem to have many friends, what else could she do? Plus Katie has always looked very desinterested in homemaking and she's not very romantic. That's why she doesn't look as thrilled as her sisters about marriage, setting a house etc.

 

Katie has SO many older sisters, and they all did the exact same thing (more or less). The thing they did (marriage) got them lots of attention, a valuable commodity in a family of 19. They also got lots of presents, another valuable commodity. Who can blame her for diving right in?

I doubt Katie stopped to ask herself if this is what she wanted or if she was well-suited to domesticity. 

I also think that a young woman living at the Bates house must have an awful lot of work to do. There are still lots of people living at home. The meals, cooking, laundry, schooling, keeping an eye on the younger ones, watching visiting nieces and nephews. . . I'm sure a big hunk of that work fell on Katie, and she didn't really have the option to say no. She's so condition to "first-time obedience" that I doubt she resisted very much. Who wants to do all that work when you are 19, and you see your sisters enjoying the big, wide world? 

The problem is, the Bates luck has run out. Katie's sisters managed to marry men who loved them and don't seem to be abusing their power. In contrast, the Clark family seems dysfunctional at best, misogynistic at worst. Katie seems to have limited adulting skills (other than how to use makeup), which also makes things harder.

There doesn't seem to be much connection between her and Travis. It may sound funny, but I really wonder if they are even having sex very often. If they are, I doubt it's good sex. That's different from, say, Carlin/Evan or Erin/Chad. I get better vibes from them in that department.

[CanadianMamam]

1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

 

There doesn't seem to be much connection between her and Travis. It may sound funny, but I really wthey are even having sex very often. If they are, I doubt it's good sex. That's different from, say, Carlin/Evan or Erin/Chad. I get better vibes from them in that department.

Travis comes across more natural in the YouTube videos than her instagram videos and in the house tour video, they actually seemed sweet (as much as fundies can be) and more comfortable so they might be getting more comfortable. Remember they had never even held hands before the wedding, nothing but standing awkwardly next to each other, so it is not surprising that it is taking them time to get used to each other physically. 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by CanadianMamam

[neuroticcat]

Meh, they are teenagers who have had parts of their relationships filmed in weird reality TV scripted episodes and curated on social media. We have no idea what their relationship is like, and, frankly they probably have no idea who they are as individuals or a couple. Best case scenario: they grow up together and figure out some kind of independence in some way - maybe more like Alyssa and John.

I think the wrestling videos are super creepy and agree it seems Clark family is super controlling. Hopefully they will separate from that as they get older. 

[CanadianMamam]

Katie just posted about getting used to shopping for two and how tiny the grocery order is. I think she really is just adjusting from the chaos of her old life to living in a house with just one person.

Esit- she did add that they forgot items but I think the adjustment is still real.

Edited February 8, 2022 by CanadianMamam

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

Remember they had never even held hands before the wedding, nothing but standing awkwardly next to each other, so it is not surprising that it is taking them time to get used to each other physically. 

The same could be said for her sisters. Carlin, Erin, Alyssa, Tori, Michaela all had mostly-no-touch courtships IIRC. Yet there seems to be a better vibe there.

I think this couple is destined for difficulty. Travis comes from a home with suspected domestic violence and weird power issues. Katie is unusually immature, has never held a job and can barely drive.

Marriage is hard. Getting used to each other physically or learning to shop for two. . . these are the least of their problems.  They need to learn to compromise, make difficult decisions, cope with disappointment, set boundaries with family, etc.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Jackie3