Animal fat obsession

[Wolfie]

I agree that it is important to eat meat. I really don't like meat, but I eat anyway because you can only get certain B vitamins from meat. No vegetables or fruits contain B12, for example. You can take a vitamin, but it seems better to get them from food.

I don't get the whole thing about not being able to digest grains? People have done it for 1000s of years. I say this because being able to digest dairy is considered a genetic mutation. The majority of the world is lactose intolerant. They can eat cheese and things, but they cannot drink a glass of milk without becoming ill. I can't even eat a little tiny bit dairy without becoming ill, but I'm a minority there in that respect. Perhaps wheat was similar, but the majority of people can eat it without a problem. There is celiac disease and other wheat intolerances, but they are sporadic.

Um, everything is genetic mutations. It's what makes us individuals.

[Wolfie]

Everyone that I know that cooks out of Nourishing Traditions is in some kind of cult, be it Christian or something else, and they believe 6 impossible things before breakfast. I never bought a copy because I was too freaked out by the people who recommended it (in multiple religions). I do marinate beets with yogurt whey from time to time, but that's about it!

The ones I know personally aren't in any cults. As I've said before, I don't agree with all of it, but it's not as far out there (other than the time it takes to make a lot of the stuff) as some of the diets that people, even people active on this board, have mentioned.

[Austin]

Every substance in the world is one molecule away from plastic. I think what they mean is that the molecule is one atom away from plastic? But plastic can mean so many things on a biochemical level.

Yeah, my then-boss didn't really believe that it was nearly plastic, I'm sure. It was just an expression he used to let me know how unhealthy he considered margerine. I should have made that clear.

[dairyfreelife]

Kind of funny compared to your avatar.....

Actually, usually kids can digest milk and it is as they reach adulthood that they become lactose intolerant. The NIH site says 1 in 5, other sites say something more like 1 in 4. Neither is a majority. It also isn't an "all or nothing" thing, so it's a sliding scale of how much a person can have.

About 60% of the world is a majority. In some ethnicities, children often cannot digest milk. In most euro ethnic children and other ethnic cultures, any intolerance often doesn't occur until adulthood. Some ethnicities have less than 5% of people who can drink milk. Most lactose intolerant people can still consume dairy, usually things like cheeses and yogurts aren't a problem, but drinking a glass of milk is. It is absolutely not an all or nothing. I have to do a research paper on this right now. It is quite interesting.

Read: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12915462

Edited to add a link about lactase persistence.

[PraiseSeitan]

There are recipes on the Weston A. Price foundation website for raw milk baby formula (which is a really good way to kill a baby) and, weirder yet, a formula made from ground-up organ meats. That is some crazy shit, even compared to the high cholesterol is good for you, eat moar organ meats, you need the milk of another species crazy one comes to expect from them.

[Bookworm]

And blue eyed anglo-saxons, who generally don't have lactose intolerance, often do have milk allergy which can lead to fluid in the ears and fluctuating hearing loss as a result.

Give cow's milk to baby cows, that's what nature intended.

I am a blue-eyed Anglo-Saxon definitely and I will say a few years ago I realized that I had something like a low-level ear infection all the time. This was around the time I was switching to raw milk and realizing that my skin was much clearer and I just felt better overall. I still eat some commercial cheese and butter and wish I did not have to because sometimes I can feel the ear thing starting up again, though not like I used to. It's weird what you can get used to and not even be aware of, I'm still surprised it took me so long to notice/understand the sensation.

Anyway, raw grassfed milk and pasteurized, homogenized milk are like two entirely different things. Regular milk deserves everything bad people say about milk, such as the casein protein is frequently bad for people – the casein molecules have been broken up by the centrifuge when homogenizing and thus we digest molecules that in raw milk are simply waste.

Calves do not actually produce enough lactase to digest all the lactose in milk, so raw milk has lactase in it, which is why many lactose-intolerant people drink raw milk with no problem. Pasteurizing kills it, as well as the enzyme phosphatase which is what allows you to absorb the calcium. I figure milk is a simpler and more natural drink than a lot of what we humans eat and drink - coffee and tea are rather odd too when you think about it.

Anyway, it's all fascinating to me. The grains thing is more complicated and is more about maximizing the nutrition. I used to be more intent on trying to do the recipes in the NT book, but I cannot stand any pickles, lacto-fermented veggies, sauerkraut; all yuck. I like to think about things that WAPF recommends and see if it could work for me, but I'm not too fussed about following rules.

Another thing relating to nutrition is that recently I saw an article where researchers discovered that all humans tend to have one of three major types of gut bacteria colonies – some have a certain group of bacteria, some have a different group. Our digestive systems apparently get used to the first type they are colonized by and are no longer hospitable to major probiotic campaigns of bacteria belonging to the other groups. I bet there will be a lot of fascinating research in the future leading to more understanding of why some diets work for some people and some don't.

Sorry for rambling on, I don't know why I always fall for these threads, it's addictive or something :oops:

[NurseNell]

Kind of funny compared to your avatar.....

Yeah, I know, it's part of why I picked it. ;)

[emmiedahl]

My husband is doing the Paleo diet. His high cholesterol is down and he no longer is taking Lipitor or anti-depressants, and he is losing weight. He was not really unhealthy to begin with, but I thought it was a crock until he had his routine bloodwork done. His lipids were gradually getting worse and now his numbers are the best they have ever been.

[NurseNell]

Is anyone familiar with the blood type diet, where each blood type dictates what food is best for you? Has anyone tried it?

[Bookworm]

Is anyone familiar with the blood type diet, where each blood type dictates what food is best for you? Has anyone tried it?

I've heard about it but really have not examined it yet.

[Sinister Rouge]

I totally agree with NurseNell and others re: dairy. It wasn't until my daughter (then around 18 months) began to struggle with constipation as I introduced her to a bit of cow's milk that I started to question it. I switched the whole family to almond milk (lovely, lovely stuff) and lo and behold, not only did we all almost instantly feel better, but my 3 year old's persistent eczema completely disappeared - GONE in a week. Also, I find my overall digestion vastly improved and regulated. I often wonder how many people and kids are mildly to moderately intolerant, and people just aren't making the connection between their mild complaints and dairy.

[clarinetpower]

FWIW, I am a Nordic/Saxon woman, with no troubles with dairy. I did have troubles as a baby, but when I was 2, anything was fine. I could eat a bowl of mac and cheese, drink a glass of milk, have a cheese course and follow it with ice cream for dessert and my stomach wouldn't hurt at all. (My jeans would not fit, however.)

My husband is a Euro-mutt. He became violently lactose intolerant at 19. We learned while living in France that active-cultured yogurt, eaten daily, helps him digest butter, cheese and ice cream. (He doesn't like milk.) This is what the French do, and lactose intolerance is not common there. But yogurt, that they eat once or twice daily. Before this, one pat of butter used to cook would have him miserable. Now, he is able to eat most things without too much trouble.

My first daughter became also violently lactose intolerant at 14 months old. She does the yogurt thing as well, but drinks soy milk. She can now have some dairy, but mac and cheese is a nono. Before the yogurt, one goldfish cracker had her screaming. (Do you know how hard it is to avoid goldfish crackers when your 2 year old is around other kids? Really hard!) She's now 4, and can have a bit more, but I keep lactaid handy and homemade yogurt is a daily requirement.

My 17 month old is showing zero signs of trouble thus far with dairy. She drinks whole milk and loves it. She will scare you with how much ice cream she can put away.

I make my own yogurt because none of the commercial yogurts in the US are strong enough for them, except for Mountain High, but I can't get that east of Madison, WI (and we're far east from there, now.)

I wish they'd offer soy milk or something else in more places. But, at least my oldest thinks her favorite drink (besides root beer) is water.

[VeraAnne]

I don't get the whole thing about not being able to digest grains? People have done it for 1000s of years

The grains of today are a lot different than the grains of even 100 years ago. They are technically GMO, but they undergo intense processing that results in a much higher gluten content than older grains. Of course, there have always been people who are bothered by gluten, but that number has gone up a lot since the grains started being screwed with.

[rachelmom]

I got the Nourishing Traditions book from the library once and read a bunch of it out loud to my biologist husband. He laughed and laughed and laughed at the "science" behind it.

I also got the book from the library once, and was completely underwhelmed.

[Annette]

Those of you who don't serve dairy milk to your families...how do you make sure you and your kids get enough calcium?

[jenny_islander]

My dairy-intolerant relatives eat a lot of canned salmon (we live in salmon country, so they catch their own). The bones become tiny chewable calcium vitamins during the canning process and some of my nieces have been known to fight over them!

[Jewess]

Those of you who don't serve dairy milk to your families...how do you make sure you and your kids get enough calcium?

Sesame seeds and almonds mostly, not to mention broths made with bones and an acidic liquid (apple cider vinegar usually) which helps the calcium from the bones dissolve into the bowl of soup.

[PraiseSeitan]

Those of you who don't serve dairy milk to your families...how do you make sure you and your kids get enough calcium?

We eat plants. In particular nuts and cruciferous vegetables have high levels of calcium.

Dairy interests have done a great job of convincing people that calcium=dairy, but other sources are better and don't have the serious health effects (or environmental impact, or cruel and exploitative aspects) of dairy.

[Wolfie]

Some people have serious health effects from the plants that are higher in calcium- they tend to be higher in oxalates. And not all dairy farms are 'cruel' or harmful to the environment, just as not all plant farming is good for the environment or treats the workers decently. There isn't black and white in farming, it is a sliding scale.

[Sinister Rouge]

Sesame seeds and almonds mostly, not to mention broths made with bones and an acidic liquid (apple cider vinegar usually) which helps the calcium from the bones dissolve into the bowl of soup.

This! (BTW, thank you Jewess, you just reminded me that I have a big bag of turkey bones from Thanksgiving to use up this week :) ) Also my kids are crazy about canned fish like sardines and salmon, as another poster mentioned. Soy products like tofu contain calcium. Oh, and veggies like spinach, kale, and broccoli - we go through probably five huge bunches of broccoli a week here, we're big fans :)

[NurseNell]

You can have all the calcium in the world but if you don't walk a lot or do weight bearing exercises you can still end up osteoporotic. And genes seem important also. Families with a strong history of osteoporosis can have adequate calcium intake but still be osteopenic or osteoporotic. I'm lucky, a life time non milk drinker, not so big on foods which are a good source of calcium, and a major consumer of coca cola ( :shhh: ) I have great bone density, thanks to family history.

[PraiseSeitan]

Some people have serious health effects from the plants that are higher in calcium- they tend to be higher in oxalates. And not all dairy farms are 'cruel' or harmful to the environment, just as not all plant farming is good for the environment or treats the workers decently. There isn't black and white in farming, it is a sliding scale.

The natural lifespan of a cow is approximately twenty years. Dairy cattle live for approximately 3-5 years, and are killed when their milk production declines, because it's more cost-effective to breed another to convert feed into milk more efficiently. Within that time they are repeatedly impregnated in order to produce milk. The babies are taken away within a day or so of birth, a few females are kept for future dairy production, the rest are slaughtered for veal. That's how it works on every dairy farm, before you look into issues of confinement, or feed, or how hormones and breeding for overproduction lead to frequent mastitis, or transportation or slaughter. Even if all of those variables are done in the least awful way, it's still an inherently cruel process.

[Bookworm]

The natural lifespan of a cow is approximately twenty years. Dairy cattle live for approximately 3-5 years, and are killed when their milk production declines, because it's more cost-effective to breed another to convert feed into milk more efficiently. Within that time they are repeatedly impregnated in order to produce milk. The babies are taken away within a day or so of birth, a few females are kept for future dairy production, the rest are slaughtered for veal. That's how it works on every dairy farm, before you look into issues of confinement, or feed, or how hormones and breeding for overproduction lead to frequent mastitis, or transportation or slaughter. Even if all of those variables are done in the least awful way, it's still an inherently cruel process.

I think you might be pleasantly surprised if you look at organicpastures.com :)

[atheistpride]

I got the Nourishing Traditions book from the library once and read a bunch of it out loud to my biologist husband. He laughed and laughed and laughed at the "science" behind it.

WAPF, Sally Fallon, Primal and Palio, Taubes etc diets are not just fundi diets. They are all becoming quite popular. Anytime I read up on these new fad diets lie WAPF I laugh at the "science" and cherry picking behind it. Some people do well on that type of diet but the science on a diet high in animal fat is very different than what the authors of those diets are claiming and their claims about grains and soy being the devil are wrong too. Raw milk isn't some magic elixer and pasteurization isn't some evil ploy to make people sick.

[formergothardite]

All I know about NT and WAPF I learned from MDC and those people seemed a tad crazy. We drink Almond Milk, not regular milk because I have just never liked regular milk.