[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 32: So There Was this Cat Who Knew A Squirrel Who Knows Anna...

[amaznmom2u]

1 hour ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

...and I don't even know who you are!" To which Curious politely replied, "Hi, Let me introduce myself.  I own Free Jinger."

I had forgotten the details, so this side trip down memory lane made me smile. 

That deserves a mike drop emoji, in all honesty. 

[Cam]

38 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

She doesn't sound like the brightest bulb in the box? She blathered on and on, described the car as being "a car, it's a car, it's a grayish car", refused to give them helpful and relevant info like THERE'S A CHILD PREDATOR IN MY HOUSE, refused to explain what "they wanted comments" even meant, had no clearly defined reason for being afraid--This would have all added up to being pretty low on my priority list if I was on the end of the line.

 

32 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I'm not defending Mrs. Reber, but it's possible she was projecting her overall anxiety about the situation onto that grayish car. She knows she can't call 911 and say "Get this asshole pedophile out of my house, for God's sake" without running into trouble with her husband and Jim Bob.   So let's blame and fear the media instead. 

Interesting insight, JenniferJ and what you say makes sense.

LilMissM, Mrs Reber rambled but I thought the dispatcher did too. He seemed   more like he was fishing for gossip and wasn’t taking her too seriously. How would Mrs R know if the person or persons in the car were under the influence? Why didn’t he ask her right off the bat if she knew the make/model or license plate of the car? 

It’s an odd thing for Mrs R to say “they asked for comments” because she placed no context around it. She could have said something like, “they were asking my guests to share personal information”. 

At any rate, Mrs R ought to get a pair of binoculars! Then she could give 911 better info!  

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, Jencendiary said:

Because never in the history of the world has a woman with a history of sex work been threatened or harassed by a man with financial means or social influence to recant a story. 

Of course.  But that's not what happened here.  Dillon sued Josh for her day in civil court.  The court then required her to submit certain items to sustain that case.  Despite several allowances and extensions by the court, she did not produce these documents.   The court nearly dismissed the case because of this, and almost certainly would have, had Josh not gained the upper hand with his "proof".  But Josh and his lawyer did not play a role in her failure to produce the documents the court needed from her to prevent dismissal. So its not accurate to imply the case went nowhere because she was threatened or intimidated by Josh's attorney.  There is no evidence of this, and her case was already going nowhere when she didn't support her allegations as required by the judge.

Now was she bullied into admitting she lied?  I don't think so, although there was likely some quid pro quo involved between her attorney and Josh's attorney.  She's the one who wanted the case dismissed after her attorney saw Josh's proof.  Josh's attorney would only let her out if she agreed she'd never re-file.  Which seems like a reasonable legal maneuver to me.  

[Cam]

7 hours ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Very, very true. TLC does have a history of giving victims of CSA a slap in the face like you said. Knowing TLC they probably won't do anything unless the ratings take a hit. They've given out statements saying they haven't featured Josh on Counting On. I believe Counting On is one of their highest rated programs. So, I really don't see them doing anything unless the ratings do take a hit and/or they lose sponsorship for letting the program continue. I really hope both happen. 

Who ARE these people who are watching Counting On? I mean, what is the demographic? What is the draw? Do men watch it? Why? Do women who watch it admire the lifestyle of the older girls? Do they really think having all those kids, no education, and having to submit to their husbands is something to aspire to? 

[raayx01]

1 minute ago, Cam said:

Who ARE these people who are watching Counting On? I mean, what is the demographic? What is the draw? Do men watch it? Why? Do women who watch it admire the lifestyle of the older girls? Do they really think having all those kids, no education, and having to submit to their husbands is something to aspire to? 

It's a really weird show. Most realities shows are full of drama and over reactions like the Kardashians or Real house wives. Some times it just nicer to have something you know is going to be more wholesome. No Cussing, Fights, Partying, drinking. It's good background noise when you want something to listen to but not pay attention

[Bad Wolf]

When Counting On first started, it was supposed to be about the married Duggars. It didn't take long for JB and M to weasel their way back in. 19 kids and counting with a different name. I don't actually watch it, just picked up from reading here. TLC can pretend to change the name and the focus, but JB has a strangle hold on everything.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Wait, did Curious even GO to this school?!

[WarriorJane]

Mrs. Reber is definitely uncomfortable and that's a good thing.   That means that maybe there is a little part inside her that can think for herself and knows this is not right and should not be normalized.  Maybe if she remains uncomfortable every day until the trial,  she will start to think that her headship is an idiot who makes bad decisions and has no regard for herself or their daughter. And maybe, just maybe, she'll one day realize that the patriarchal system she is helping to sustain is dangerous bullshit.   Or maybe, and what I'm really hoping for,  her daughter is watching all this and will be inspired to run far far away from it.   #freethereberdaughter

[nokidsmom]

27 minutes ago, WarriorJane said:

Mrs. Reber is definitely uncomfortable and that's a good thing.   That means that maybe there is a little part inside her that can think for herself and knows this is not right and should not be normalized.  Maybe if she remains uncomfortable every day until the trial,  she will start to think that her headship is an idiot who makes bad decisions and has no regard for herself or their daughter.

I suspect that maybe she has known for some time that her headship is an idiot but this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Honestly, the way this is going, somehow I don't see Josh staying there long.  Maybe because of Mrs. Reber says enough or maybe because they will screw up and call Jim Bob over Joshley's misbehavin' instead of the PO.   Somehow, I don't think they realize that the judge really meant it to call the PO first instead of JB and the church elders.

[Not that josh's mom]

Honest question. How would the court know if they called JB first?  He'd certainly never admit it, nor would they. 

[GiggleOfGirls]

1 minute ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Honest question. How would the court know if they called JB first?  He'd certainly never admit it, nor would they. 

Personally, I don’t think the court would have any way of knowing unless the Rebers really messed up and somehow made it obvious that they’d gone to other people first.

I suspect that the judge is just hoping that the directive was worded strongly enough to discourage the Rebers from contacting JB/pastor lest they be liars in court, but yeah, if they did call JB or the pastor first then I don’t think anyone of consequence would necessarily find out. 

I have absolutely no experience or knowledge that would make me a particularly accurate guesser about this situation, but I’ve certainly thought about it enough ?

[Mrs. Kravitz]

If I were Mrs. Reber, I'm pretty sure by this point I'd just be having the judge's voice saying, "You understand that this means he could be staying with you for 6 months or more?" playing on a loop in the back of my mind 24/7.

[Marionette]

1 hour ago, WarriorJane said:

Mrs. Reber is definitely uncomfortable and that's a good thing.   That means that maybe there is a little part inside her that can think for herself and knows this is not right and should not be normalized.  Maybe if she remains uncomfortable every day until the trial,  she will start to think that her headship is an idiot who makes bad decisions and has no regard for herself or their daughter. And maybe, just maybe, she'll one day realize that the patriarchal system she is helping to sustain is dangerous bullshit.   Or maybe, and what I'm really hoping for,  her daughter is watching all this and will be inspired to run far far away from it.   #freethereberdaughter

Part of me thinks she’s just uncomfortable being alone with a man (see: Billy Graham Rule). But I hope deep down that she has a grasp of the weight of what Josh has done and is being accused of... However, she’s doing this because her husband said so, and because she believes it is the Godly thing to do. She is probably justifying her discomfort by telling herself it is Satan trying to keep her family from obeying God’s call to “minister” to the Duggars. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

3 hours ago, Cam said:

Who ARE these people who are watching Counting On? I mean, what is the demographic? What is the draw? Do men watch it? Why? Do women who watch it admire the lifestyle of the older girls? Do they really think having all those kids, no education, and having to submit to their husbands is something to aspire to? 

Really, really good question. I don't get it either. 

53 minutes ago, Mrs. Kravitz said:

If I were Mrs. Reber, I'm pretty sure by this point I'd just be having the judge's voice saying, "You understand that this means he could be staying with you for 6 months or more?" playing on a loop in the back of my mind 24/7.

Honestly, I don't know how she is going to last much longer with this situation. I really, really hope that if she gets too uncomfortable she convinces her husband to have Josh leave. If he doesn't agree, then I hope he (meaning Mr. Reber) is okay with her staying with a close friends and/or relatives for the time being. I wish she could just leave on her own, but this is the fundie world and she probably has to get permission to stay over at someone else's house for a long period of time from her hubby. 

[Not that josh's mom]

21 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Really, really good question. I don't get it either. 

Honestly, I don't know how she is going to last much longer with this situation. I really, really hope that if she gets too uncomfortable she convinces her husband to have Josh leave. If he doesn't agree, then I hope he (meaning Mr. Reber) is okay with her staying with a close friends and/or relatives for the time being. I wish she could just leave on her own, but this is the fundie world and she probably has to get permission to stay over at someone else's house for a long period of time from her hubby. 

Even if she had the gumption to leave. Do you think her husband would quit his job to be Josh's guardian? Doubtful in my opinion. And someone  has to be with Josh  24/7.

[NancyDrewFan1989]

On 5/22/2021 at 7:15 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

There was something else, there was footage of him either with David Waller or taken by Waller...or at a Waller event.  I'll find it, it's making my brain itchy.

Josh Duggar was a guest speaker at several conferences during one of the dates that Danica claimed he assaulted her, I believe, in Philadelphia. David Waller did numerous posts about traveling to family conferences where Josh was a guest speaker from the Family Research Council and family visits. A couple of his blog posts and photos showed that Josh was on the other side of the country, like in Tennessee or Florida, during the dates she claimed the assault happened. Ultimately, her case fell apart because Josh was able to prove he was no where near Philly and all she had was the contract with the club she was working at. I'd have to find the lawsuit she filed to show the dates Danica claimed the assault happened to show them. David Waller posted every time he and Priscilla saw Josh and Anna from the time their blog started. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by NancyDrewFan1989
adding

[JenniferJuniper]

4 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Even if she had the gumption to leave. Do you think her husband would quit his job to be Josh's guardian? Doubtful in my opinion. 

Course not.  Waiting hand and foot on pedophiles is wimmen's work!

[NancyDrewFan1989]

3 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Even if she had the gumption to leave. Do you think her husband would quit his job to be Josh's guardian? Doubtful in my opinion. And someone  has to be with Josh  24/7.

I really doubt it to. When it comes down to Mrs. Reber, I don't think she knew what she was getting into. I believe she was told by Mr. Reber that they were going to be babysitting Josh Duggar and she would be able to have a life. I don't believe she expected the judge to place him under house arrest in her home and she would have to rearrange her entire life around him. Now, she is completely stuck because JB asked her husband for a favor. I really hope the Reber's have a way out of this situation if Josh Duggar becomes to much for them. I have a feeling the only guests they are having are Anna, the M'kids, JB, Michelle, maybe his legally adult siblings, and his lawyers. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

17 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

I really doubt it to. When it comes down to Mrs. Reber, I don't think she knew what she was getting into. I believe she was told by Mr. Reber that they were going to be babysitting Josh Duggar and she would be able to have a life. I don't believe she expected the judge to place him under house arrest in her home and she would have to rearrange her entire life around him. Now, she is completely stuck because JB asked her husband for a favor. I really hope the Reber's have a way out of this situation if Josh Duggar becomes to much for them. I have a feeling the only guests they are having are Anna, the M'kids, JB, Michelle, maybe his legally adult siblings, and his lawyers. 

The parts I bolded are 100% fanfic.  You've created imaginary conversations between then and scenarios out of whole cloth and now that's what you believe.

You have no idea what was said, what she was led to believe.  And the judge explained the situation in court so whatever she expected she knew what she was getting into and was a legal adult who agreed to it.

Can you please stop infantilizing this woman as if she has no legal agency?  She does and she chose not to use it.

27 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

 I'd have to find the lawsuit she filed to show the dates Danica claimed the assault happened to show them. David Waller posted every time he and Priscilla saw Josh and Anna from the time their blog started. 

I posted them a page or two back.

[Not that josh's mom]

19 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

The parts I bolded are 100% fanfic.  You've created imaginary conversations between then and scenarios out of whole cloth and now that's what you believe.

You have no idea what was said, what she was led to believe.  And the judge explained the situation in court so whatever she expected she knew what she was getting into and was a legal adult who agreed to it.

Can you please stop infantilizing this woman as if she has no legal agency?  She does and she chose not to use it.

I posted them a page or two back.

Have to disagree. She believed whatever her husband told her, she told the judge that she was agreeing because of her husband. Then the details were explained to her. She couldn't refuse at that point because she couldnt openly contradict her headship. Our opinions definitely differ on this.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Not that josh's mom

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I thought the judge said "up to six months." The trial is scheduled for the beginning of July. The right to a speedy trial is part of the 6th amendment.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Have to disagree. She believed whatever her husband told her, she told the judge that she was agreeing because of her husband. Then the details were explained to her. She couldn't refuse at that point because she couldnt openly contradict her headship. Our opinions definitely differ on this.

No one knows what she was told, that's my point.  When posters get to the point where they are imagining conversations between people they've never met it's fanfic and not okay here.

Speculation is fine, we all make suppositions about what we think is going on.  That's very different than saying you believe something based on imaginary dialogue.

[NancyDrewFan1989]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

The parts I bolded are 100% fanfic.  You've created imaginary conversations between then and scenarios out of whole cloth and now that's what you believe.

You have no idea what was said, what she was led to believe.  And the judge explained the situation in court so whatever she expected she knew what she was getting into and was a legal adult who agreed to it.

Can you please stop infantilizing this woman as if she has no legal agency?  She does and she chose not to use it.

I posted them a page or two back.

All very true, I am just trying to explain that she probably didn't understand it how we  on FJ understood it. I am not trying to "infantilize" her in anyway. I just don't believe she understood the situation how we understand the situation at hand. Yes, we don't know what was said behind closed doors before the Rebers agreed. But, I do believe she agreed to participate in this agreement very naively believing she would be able to have the life she was living pre-Smuggar. I do believe if she knew the full seriousness of the situation, then she would've put her foot down with her husband in order to get out of it. Now, she is stuck in a house with a pedophile who she has to babysit and have limited guests. Part me wonders if, after the hearing, she protested to her husband. Like I said, I am not trying to "infantilize" her, I really don't believe she understood everything how we understood it, even with the judges restrictions. This is a culture where the women are taught to blindly follow their husbands lead. Mrs. Reber, probably, didn't have a word in edgewise until she found out her whole world was falling apart because of the agreement. Did the judge explain everything? Yes. Was she warned about him living there and the consequences she and her husband would suffer if Josh stepped a toe out of line? Yes. Sadly, this is a culture where the women are suppressed to the point where the only career option they have is to be a dutiful housewife and mother following their headship until the very end. Everything about this Josh Duggar fiasco is the perfect example of why the fundie system continues to fail women time and time again. I don't believe Anna fully understands everything how we understand everything and to make matters worse it has been drilled into both her and Mrs. Rebers head that divorce is an egregious sin that will send you straight to Hell (I'd rather go to Hell than let a pedophile near any future children of mine) when you die because it was God's will for them to marry their husbands. I am not trying to "infantilize" them, I am just trying to explain it from their perspective. They were raised to be nothing more than dutiful housewives and mother with a limited education who were told to pray because God and Jesus would answer their prayers. Well, where did those prayers get them? Mrs. Reber has a pedophile living in her house and Anna is now facing being a single mother to seven children and having to get a job where she won't make the bare minimum to support her brood.  But, they don't see it that way because it is "God's will" that they walk through this. Both Anna and Mrs. Reber are going to need serious psychological help if they are ever going to leave this horrific cult. I know people who escaped the fundie cult and they all believe that neither Mrs. Reber nor Anna understand the how serious the situation is because of how they were raised. 

I will go a few pages back and try to find the court transcripts. 

[JenniferJuniper]

57 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I thought the judge said "up to six months." The trial is scheduled for the beginning of July. The right to a speedy trial is part of the 6th amendment.

July would be the speed of light.  And his attorneys have motions they'll want to get filed and addressed by the court which will take time.

I really think the Rebers will have Josh with them for at least 6 months.   Unless of course something happens to change the agreement or Josh decides to plead guilty fairly soon.

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Really, really good question. I don't get it either. 

Honestly, I don't know how she is going to last much longer with this situation. I really, really hope that if she gets too uncomfortable she convinces her husband to have Josh leave. If he doesn't agree, then I hope he (meaning Mr. Reber) is okay with her staying with a close friends and/or relatives for the time being. I wish she could just leave on her own, but this is the fundie world and she probably has to get permission to stay over at someone else's house for a long period of time from her hubby. 

Who would then wait hand and foot on the men folk?