[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 32: So There Was this Cat Who Knew A Squirrel Who Knows Anna...

[Bad Wolf]

If/when Josh goes to prison, I wonder if JB and M will still be welcome at places like Big Sandy. Will they be shunned, or will they still be key note speakers? Look how Satan corrupted our son, even though we were perfect, godly parents.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

47 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

I don’t get the patronizing attitude toward people who mainly spend time in the Duggar and Bates threads. That’s what I do because I think they’re the most dangerous and also cause I don’t have time in my life to keep up with the JRod threads.

Speaking for myself it's definitely not all people.  There are definitely great posts (and posters) in those threads.  The true humpers are in the minority (far less than we used to have.)  I read the Duggar threads regularly not for modding but because there are often interesting discussions going on there.  And people do call out shit like Joy and Austin being on that alt-right podcast, etc.  

I think the stereotype, which isn't fair, stems from the fact that when we do get humpers that's where they go.  No one comes here to hump the Maxwells or JRod and God knows Zsu's fans don't set up camp to squee about her here.  The Bates and the Duggars have tv shows so there is actually a fan base that exists for both that's just not a thing with non-tv families.  I mean, no one who is confronted with a Steve Maxwell "conversation" after church is going to google and find sites where they can talk about it with other people who enjoy that too  .

 

[nokidsmom]

9 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

If/when Josh goes to prison, I wonder if JB and M will still be welcome at places like Big Sandy. Will they be shunned, or will they still be key note speakers? Look how Satan corrupted our son, even though we were perfect, godly parents.

I imagine it depends on which side wins the argument over whether they should speak or don't want them showing up.   I always felt there were / are conflicting views of the family even in their own circles, meaning there will be people who will still buy into "the godly parent, it was Satan who got to him" narrative and others who will want nothing to do with them (and perhaps never wanted to).   In the latter group, if they always wanted them gone, here's the big opportunity. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by nokidsmom

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

...and God knows Zsu's fans don't set up camp to squee about her here. 

I don't even follow ZsuZsu, and I can't imagine that ever happening!

[amaznmom2u]

10 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

If/when Josh goes to prison, I wonder if JB and M will still be welcome at places like Big Sandy. Will they be shunned, or will they still be key note speakers? Look how Satan corrupted our son, even though we were perfect, godly parents.

They will be dropped like a hot potato. For a while. Then they will schmarm their way back in as the parents who cast the millstone off their neck when they finally cut ties with Joshinator. 

Then again, Im pretty stoned right now (and watching an Asian movie without subtitles...)

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, amaznmom2u said:

They will be dropped like a hot potato. For a while. Then they will schmarm their way back in as the parents who cast the millstone off their neck when they finally cut ties with Joshinator. 

Then again, Im pretty stoned right now (and watching an Asian movie without subtitles...)

When the molestation thing came to light Jill, and I believe JB, said it [incestuous child sexual abuse] happens in 1/3 or 2/3 of the families they know.  Even if JB didn't say it directly, Jill did in the Megyn Kelly special and she was spouting the party line.  If it's that pervasive in their community wouldn't there be an opportunity from grifting those families via a specific ministry geared to them?  And it's also far too common in all demographics, could this ministry be crafted to draw in those people for "forgiveness" and such as a way to deal with the untenable?  

In theory it could work if Josh "reforms" (read put on a public show) or if he doesn't and they cut him off with a "love you forever, but until you repent you are out of the fold" kinda thing.  

 

[WarriorJane]

15 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

If/when Josh goes to prison, I wonder if JB and M will still be welcome at places like Big Sandy. Will they be shunned, or will they still be key note speakers? Look how Satan corrupted our son, even though we were perfect, godly parents.

I think JB&M might be done with speaking at those conferences, but I think the next gen kids could step right in.  I can totally see Jessa and Ben giving talks on "how to raise godly Christian children in the shadow of evil" or some such shit. 

[amaznmom2u]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

When the molestation thing came to light Jill, and I believe JB, said it [incestuous child sexual abuse] happens in 1/3 or 2/3 of the families they know.  Even if JB didn't say it directly, Jill did in the Megyn Kelly special and she was spouting the party line.  

 

FML forgot about that. I think Amazndad2u need the tv for a bit.  That actually should be the focus of 1 episode on the docu series and highlight that Megyn Kelly interview. 

4 minutes ago, WarriorJane said:

I think JB&M might be done with speaking at those conferences, but I think the next gen kids could step right in.  I can totally see Jessa and Ben giving talks on "how to raise godly Christian children in the shadow of evil" or some such shit. 

Of course blaming porn and sex work as the issue, not their warped interpretation of cherry picked passages. And slut shaming women for not dressing to enhance the countenance. 

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

 JB is trying to buy his way out of trouble and it's probably not been for the first time he has done so.   But this time the stakes are much higher, not just because of what Josh is facing but down deep, JB knows there's a good chance that this new Joshgate will mark the end of a lot of things: TLC money, the "wholesome Christian family" brand, and how is he going to support all the kids and their families with a reduced income not to mention paying big attorneys' fees. 

He may know that the family was able to somehow skate through the previous Joshgates fairly unscathed in terms of staying on the TLC gravy train, but this time I suspect he knows this time, it's much more serious.

JB might wish that more of his married kids had pulled a "Jill and Derick" and asserted their independence.  Even paying their TLC wages due is probably a lot less than having them on the family dole indefinitely. 

Yep, unfortunately for all the Duggar offspring who have remained under JB's thumb and dependent upon him for a place to live and some sort of monthly income - they are going to feel the pinch when TLC/Discovery finally dump this toxic mess.  Even more unfortunately, JB and Michelle will be fine.  They certainly have enough money to last them comfortably until they kick off.  But the children who have a subpar education, not much in the way of marketable skills, and lots of kids to support - well, they better get busy!

[pupper]

11 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

When the molestation thing came to light Jill, and I believe JB, said it [incestuous child sexual abuse] happens in 1/3 or 2/3 of the families they know.  Even if JB didn't say it directly, Jill did in the Megyn Kelly special and she was spouting the party line.  If it's that pervasive in their community wouldn't there be an opportunity from grifting those families via a specific ministry geared to them?  And it's also far too common in all demographics, could this ministry be crafted to draw in those people for "forgiveness" and such as a way to deal with the untenable?  

In theory it could work if Josh "reforms" (read put on a public show) or if he doesn't and they cut him off with a "love you forever, but until you repent you are out of the fold" kinda thing.  

 

I agree. I think JB and Michelle will gain a huge fundie audience from this tragedy when this is all said and done. If Satan did this to their good and holy son, just imagine what could happen to your children!! Buy their (new) book!! Come to their talks!! Hear how they have battled the demon of pornography and are now victorious!! (See new book for details on training children, shaming girls and how all Josh's troubles are from popular culture, Hollywood and Democrats) Hear Anna tell how Jesus healed her marriage and led her to forgive Josh and love him even more!! 

This will be media gold for the Duggars! ( Pay no attention to the humiliation, horrific child abuse and mind control that results.)

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, lumpentheologie said:

I don’t get the patronizing attitude toward people who mainly spend time in the Duggar and Bates threads. That’s what I do because I think they’re the most dangerous and also cause I don’t have time in my life to keep up with the JRod threads. ?  I get that there’s fangirling but some of us do stick around to combat that, and it’s not fair to paint us all with the same brush. 

I think lots of us don’t watch the shows. There are so many good recap options now that it’s easy not to. I stopped watching 11 years ago cause they were so damn boring even then, but there’s something to be said for not watching to keep the numbers down. I think the shows being canceled is the best thing that could happen to either family in terms of some of them stepping away from fundamentalism. 

IMO following them on social media is different because that’s not the reason they’re famous. And the SM is less edited, so you’re getting it straight from the horse’s mouth, as it were. I also want to be able to see what (hopefully damning) posts the family members like and that’s only possible if you follow them. 

This is me and my approach as well. I’ve never watched the Bates’s show d/t lack of the appropriate network. I stopped watching the Duggar’s after Jill’s wedding. I don’t follow any of the others regularly because I don’t have the bandwidth. I will admit to WKing for Anna Maxwell( née )because I think she would make a naturally decent mother (religious craziness aside). How would anyone have the time to follow the Duggars, Bateses and J’Rods? Seriously...

[Idlewild]

27 minutes ago, WarriorJane said:

I think JB&M might be done with speaking at those conferences, but I think the next gen kids could step right in.  I can totally see Jessa and Ben giving talks on "how to raise godly Christian children in the shadow of evil" or some such shit. 

I can absolutely see this happening. Jessa in no way wants to be a regular pastor’s wife and deal with the ordinary people in her community. She used to do her ‘dress modestly like me’ talks where she took cash from young women while telling them to lower their hemlines. I think Ben did have a try at the ‘guest speaker’ circuit when they were touting their ‘Seewald Family Ministry’ brand but he was a really poor speaker and was never invited back.

Now he’s ordained and more mature and not just JB’s toilet scrubber/Jessa’s handbag carrier I think they’ll use this opportunity to launch themselves on the fundie speaking circuit. It could be a cutthroat competition with the Vuolos! 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Idlewild

[nokidsmom]

17 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

Yep, unfortunately for all the Duggar offspring who have remained under JB's thumb and dependent upon him for a place to live and some sort of monthly income - they are going to feel the pinch when TLC/Discovery finally dump this toxic mess.  Even more unfortunately, JB and Michelle will be fine.  They certainly have enough money to last them comfortably until they kick off.  But the children who have a subpar education, not much in the way of marketable skills, and lots of kids to support - well, they better get busy!

I think it's only a matter of time when TLC dumps them and now likely sooner than later.

Agreed, JB and J'chelle will be fine but in order to have enough $$ to last them until they go to the Great TTH In The Sky, it may / probably be necessary to cut off any kids still not at home.    I don't envy any of them and it would behoove them to get moving now as opposed to waiting for JB to pull the plug.

This is where Jill/Derick are so much better off.   And Jinger/Jeremy will probably do OK too. 

[Jencendiary]

1 hour ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Um yes. I do know what infantilize means. But thanks for calling me stupid and bullying me. Just because I have a completely different view on how both Mrs. Reber and Anna are taking this from you because I am seeing it from their perspective not yours

The word bullying has lost all meaning and context in this, the year of our lord two thousand and twenty-one, hasn't it?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

I think it's only a matter of time when TLC dumps them and now likely sooner than later.

Agreed, JB and J'chelle will be fine but in order to have enough $$ to last them until they go to the Great TTH In The Sky, it may / probably be necessary to cut off any kids still not at home.    I don't envy any of them and it would behoove them to get moving now as opposed to waiting for JB to pull the plug.

This is where Jill/Derick are so much better off.   And Jinger/Jeremy will probably do OK too. 

I agree they need to have a new policy of leave and cleave for real, which will mean the end of barely legal marriages.  But I do think they owe it to the kids to find some equitable way of cashing them out what they've earned on the show over the years.  For the current kidults cut a check, for the minors put it in trust.  It won't be enough, there is no fair amount to trade for their childhoods and privacy, but they earned wages which are owed.  

It will be hard, no question, but the unmarried howlers without kids should be okay.  Married too young, imo, but if they wait to have kids until they can afford them and in the meantime everyone works,  including their brides.  Even at entry level jobs they should be able to make enough to live frugally in AR.  

With one kid I'd put JD and Abbie in the above group, as they should be able to get non-Duggar employment with enough income to cover the basics.  

Josiah and Lauren only have one baby and he seems like he's fairly bright, so after a rough start they should be okay especially if they can get some help from her folks with a place to live while they focus on jobs/education.  

Jill/Derek are out of the equation and Joy/Austin too if I'm right and they are financially independent.  I can see Jinger and Jeremy being able to make their own way down the yellow grift road without JB's help - although I'm sure losing the income from the show will hurt short term.  I don't see him becoming the next Joel Osteen, but he's sanctimonious enough I'm sure they'll find a church somewhere that will let him yammer at people for a salary and free housing.

Jessa/Ben and Joe/Kendra are in trouble.  Soon to be four and three kids aren't cheap.  Just the larger housing, insurance, and that with so many little ones it's most cost effective for them to stay home than work (at least in my area, Idk if AR has some programs for low cost child care which would change my opinion.)  I would think Jessa and Ben would be better off down the road as he has a real education and she seems pretty media savvy and has charisma for public ventures (and she should get a bigger payout for counting on.)  Joe and Kendra have none of that going for them and Idk if he has any marketable skills...but they're both going to need some if the gravy train comes to a stop.

Tell the minors that if they want to marry they and their spouse need to be self supporting.  And once they are done with "school" they need to either continue their education or work so they will be employable.  And while they do that they can live at home and get used to eating rice three ways like in the days of yore. 

 

 

[feministxtian]

13 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Tell the minors that if they want to marry they and their spouse need to be self supporting.  And once they are done with "school" they need to either continue their education or work so they will be employable.  And while they do that they can live at home and get used to eating rice three ways like in the days of yore. 

Do the younger spawn have enough of an educational foundation to even try to further their education? None of those kids have ever really had a work ethic instilled in them. 

[Alisamer]

The youngest ones weren't even around in the pre-TLC days. (I think a couple of them ought to get bonuses for being the entire reason for them getting a show, since Michelle's pregnancies were the focus at first.) I do agree JB & Michelle should probably set a new rule of leave and cleave, pay off the older kids with what they're owed, and put money in trust for the younger ones before the coffers start to run too low. 

But it's the Duggars. Chances of that happening are slim I'd bet. The money part, anyway, not the leave and cleave. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

14 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Do the younger spawn have enough of an educational foundation to even try to further their education? None of those kids have ever really had a work ethic instilled in them. 

It won't be easy, but they teach remedial math and reading at community colleges to get them to the point where they're prepared for college level work.  In my area those classes are less expensive than those with college credits and there are different grants people can get if low income.  

Regarding work ethic all I can say is I never had one until I needed one then it showed up.  But I've known people raised by those with a strong work ethic with none, and others who were raised without it being taught or modeled who have one perhaps because of that.  My kids were all really responsible with strong work ethics from teenagers on and I have no idea how that happened.

[feministxtian]

10 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It won't be easy, but they teach remedial math and reading at community colleges to get them to the point where they're prepared for college level work.  In my area those classes are less expensive than those with college credits and there are different grants people can get if low income.  

I know they do...thing is, there's the discipline needed to actually be successful. I knew people who were taking "developmental" classes at the CC I graduated from and they just sort of had the same high school attitude and didn't apply themselves. 

As an AutoCAD instructor, I've run into quite a few students who didn't have the educational background to really be successful in my class. I've had to stop and conduct a geometry refresher (cartesian plane), a computer refresher (how to download files, unzip and place in a dedicated folder), etc. I'm TRYING to work with my school on assuring that students are ready for my class but it's an ongoing process. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I know they do...thing is, there's the discipline needed to actually be successful. I knew people who were taking "developmental" classes at the CC I graduated from and they just sort of had the same high school attitude and didn't apply themselves. 

As an AutoCAD instructor, I've run into quite a few students who didn't have the educational background to really be successful in my class. I've had to stop and conduct a geometry refresher (cartesian plane), a computer refresher (how to download files, unzip and place in a dedicated folder), etc. I'm TRYING to work with my school on assuring that students are ready for my class but it's an ongoing process. 

Agreed discipline is key, but for the ones with kids already being able to provide should be enough of an incentive.  That may be hit or miss for the younger ones, but it will be very different for them than those kids you're talking about.  Duggarlings didn't have high school or any school so the whole environment will be completely new for them...some of them may jump at the opportunity and others might be scared and retreat to find another way to make a living within the larger fundy nest and everywhere in between.

But if they could at least get through the pre-college courses successfully they'll have the equivalent of a high school education when it comes to math and reading and that's better than what they have now.  But I also don't think this will happen.  It should, but as long as JB and M are there to pearl clutch over the dangers of learning algebra from someone with whom you don't share DNA they'll stay cloistered.  

10 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

a computer refresher (how to download files, unzip and place in a dedicated folder), etc. I'm TRYING to work with my school on assuring that students are ready for my class but it's an ongoing process. 

As IT working with engineers and having to teach them these same things I wish you well in your efforts....would make your life easier and less eye rolling on behalf of their future IT department.

[fundiefriday]

Jason has a construction company and I think he's already completed a couple of houses.  As long as his builds are up to code, then I think he'll be okay as long as he doesn't have a zillion kids.  He could potentially employ Jana to help with the fixture selections, etc.  I know fundie women aren't supposed to work but she may not have a choice.  I can also see her working at a garden center.  James has a lawn care business so he may be okay as well.  They'd all definitely need to put in hard work but it's doable and it's how most of us live.  

[feministxtian]

@HerNameIsBuffy It doesn't seem to matter how much I yammer on about file management and stuff, I have students who "lose" files all the time. They have to download the practice files from the web and then unzip them. I send out an email a week before class starts with a link to the webpage and instructions but...So, I normally spend the first couple of classes reviewing simple things like file management and simple geometry. I have a Google Classroom page set up with tons of helps but even those aren't basic enough at times. 

I've told my students that I'm being nice when I help them because their future employers aren't going to be so easy going when they don't save files to the proper places, etc. And...I know how much the IT folks really want to go help some dingaling engineer or draftsman find their "missing" files  

[JenniferJuniper]

4 minutes ago, fundiefriday said:

Jason has a construction company and I think he's already completed a couple of houses.  

Is it Jason's or is it Jim Bob allowing Jason to play owner of the company?   My guess is that Jim Bob actually owns and manages everything and let's his kids pretend to be important.

[SassyPants]

I think another big hurdle for them to overcome is the reality of earned wages which are generally based on marketable skills and education, and how much things cost in the real world where most people do not grift to survive. Houses cost a great deal of money, even in NWA. Big families cost a lot of money, even in NWA. JB Duggar does not have the bandwidth to solely support 10 mega families. Also, these kids have known luxury for a good, long time. People with few marketable skills and huge families do not generally live with all the latest and greatest. 

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

I think another big hurdle for them to overcome is the reality of earned wages which are generally based on marketable skills and education, and how much things cost in the real world where most people do not grift to survive. Houses cost a great deal of money, even in NWA. Big families cost a lot of money, even in NWA. JB Duggar does not have the bandwidth to solely support 10 mega families. Also, these kids have known luxury for a good, long time. People with few marketable skills and huge families do not generally live with all the latest and greatest. 

And they have gotten used to having nice things.