[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 32: So There Was this Cat Who Knew A Squirrel Who Knows Anna...

[GiggleOfGirls]

As long as we’re speculating...

It’s also possible that the more inconvenient and upsetting the situation is for Mrs. Reber (housing a pedophile plus dealing with snooping reporters plus having to make changes in her and her daughter’s lives) the more the Rebers’ taking in of Josh could be considered self-sacrificing and virtuous. The difficulties of it all might be considered positives in some ways — always JOY ?
 

After all, look at what all they’re dealing with and giving up in order to help this poor fine fellow who keeps falling prey to Satan’s temptation (from the Fortress, of course). Their reward in heaven could be great indeed.

[AliceInFundyland]

It is my firm speculation that at least 75% of the posters only posting on Duggars/Bates threads still watch the shows.

Especially the ones who are actively following all their social media accounts and have Google news alerts causing them to analyze Wocab or the like in hyper detail.

Why?

Well, A huge percentage of us admit to starting here because of them. I do believe that a bunch of us have truly quit them and moved to other families.

But.... it's also not "cool" to admit that you watch the shows....I don't see any difference between this and the hyper media stalking.

To be honest, putting on Counting on takes a lot less time out of life-the way I roll. I don't watch with purpose, but if I've got a streaming subscription for a minute and there are new episodes, I watch. Eh.

Still miss blogs.

[Jencendiary]

7 hours ago, raayx01 said:

It's a really weird show. Most realities shows are full of drama and over reactions like the Kardashians or Real house wives. Some times it just nicer to have something you know is going to be more wholesome. No Cussing, Fights, Partying, drinking. It's good background noise when you want something to listen to but not pay attention

What's more wholesome than a group of neglected, parentified children and the abusive Christofascist grifters who have trotted them out like trained dogs all their lives to be a spectacle for gawking?

51 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

It is my firm speculation that at least 75% of the posters only posting on Duggars/Bates threads still watch the shows.

Especially the ones who are actively following all their social media accounts and have Google news alerts causing them to analyze Wocab or the like in hyper detail.

Why?

Well, A huge percentage of us admit to starting here because of them. I do believe that a bunch of us have truly quit them and moved to other families.

But.... it's also not "cool" to admit that you watch the shows....I don't see any difference between this and the hyper media stalking.

To be honest, putting on Counting on takes a lot less time out of life-the way I roll. I don't watch with purpose, but if I've got a streaming subscription for a minute and there are new episodes, I watch. Eh.

Still miss blogs.

I've never watched the Duggar shows. I'm an Arkansas voter who grew up fundamentalist (pentecostal, not independent baptist) but whose family was in the Duggar sphere of influence. 

[baldricks_turnip]

I watch the show (only on Youtube though, it doesn't air here).

Why?

1. I'm really interested in subcultures. People watching will never not be fascinating, and seeing someone mostly living the same life as me (in terms of first world, middle class, nuclear family) but through this entirely different lens is addictive to me. Finding it interesting doesn't mean I am blind to what can be harmful about it, which is why I am here.

2. I am at home with small children so I like to see families with small children dealing with the same shit I am dealing with. Fundies make for a fuck load of small children.

3. I actually kind of like mundane stuff as background viewing, since having a 1 year old and a 3 year old mean I can't really tune into anything anyway. The everyday stuff that they use to fill up their show and their youtube channels makes me feel less lonely.

So for me Duggars are a pretty perfect combination of freak show + absolute boring normality. Should the show continue on after all this, I will likely still watch. There is a little personal conflict that my viewing of their youtube channels helps prop up their lifestyle and perpetuate their cult membership. I have no good defense for that.

[AliceInFundyland]

@Jencendiary

It was a big speculative statement. Even within the Duggar threads there is definitely diversity of interest in why people came to FJ and/or why they are specifically into the Duggars.

There are people like yourself, or people like baldricks tturnip.

I don't think we need to keep them on the air. Nor do I think that we (on the board) really need to get too critical of each other for still being interested after all this time.

The problems arise with people who don't have any interest in learning about how ttheygo deeper. Like the discussion a page or 2 back and any posters who couldn't see why the Duggar Documentary idea needs to be a lengthy docuseries. That's our Duggar poster trap.

[AussieKrissy]

Duggars are like a car wreck, I can’t look away. I very rarely watch the show. I much prefer to read about it on here I love recaps. When I do watch the occasionally one with my friend I drive her nuts with my opinions and the opinions of others on here lol. And I bitch how boring the episodes are and how much better recaps are. I must say what drives me to keep up with the duggars and some other fundie families is mainly to be able to interact on here. I enjoy it. 

[WiseGirl]

I was just perusing Tumblr and a comment caught my eye. All the money JB is throwing at lawyers for Smuggar. He should have used that money years ago to get him real therapy. What is it about Smuggar that they bend over backwards for him? He's still evil and to me has always been unlikeable. Are they afraid he will write a tell all? Why sacrifice so many of your other children for this one? I don't get it. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Nor do I think that we (on the board) really need to get too critical of each other for still being interested after all this time.

People can do what they like and other people are free to be critical of that.  

[AliceInFundyland]

22 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

People can do what they like and other people are free to be critical of that.  

I'm not arguing with that. I think this is a case of overexplaining from my op. I do best in short and sweet sentiments. Then someone says something and I'm forced into lengthy dialouge. It's a bad idea sometimes in fast threads.

[Cam]

You want a docuseries to inform and even outrage so that the fundamentalist lifestyle/religion is no longer palatable to the masses. You risk losing the interest of people with too many episodes.  I yell, “cut to the chase!” at some of those dateline/48 hour type shows when things are dragged out. I’m not saying a one hour long show can do justice to the subject but it can be done in fewer than six installments.

For mindless background viewing, I prefer American Pickers, Chasing Classic Cars, Chip and Joanna....so much to choose from.

But I appreciate everyone’s take on why the show is popular and why people view it. Still would like to know who the target audience is. Women 18-34?

*****

Look, in terms of if Mrs. Reber can make any stink about decisions her husband makes, it’s doubtful. Marlo Thomas tells the story of how, as a child growing up in the 50s and 60s, she saw that in the 16 marriages in her family, the husbands ruled the roost. The men had a phrase they used whenever their wives had a complaint, “Where’s she gonna go?” Marlo felt that the women suffered, in her words, "the everyday drip, drip of dissolving self-esteem."  

This is the trump card fundy husbands play. An uneducated woman who’s self esteem is nil has no resources and therefore little choice but to keep sweet and go along with what’s demanded of her. Yes, physically she’s a grown woman but you can’t look at her through the eyes of your world, because been conditioned by a fundy world.  I wonder if Mrs R got in trouble from her husband for calling 911 and bringing unnecessary attention to the whole Josh saga.  

Edited May 24, 2021 by Cam

[Green bean satan]

1 hour ago, WiseGirl said:

I was just perusing Tumblr and a comment caught my eye. All the money JB is throwing at lawyers for Smuggar. He should have used that money years ago to get him real therapy. What is it about Smuggar that they bend over backwards for him? He's still evil and to me has always been unlikeable. Are they afraid he will write a tell all? Why sacrifice so many of your other children for this one? I don't get it. 

Therapy would have been useless, since the Duggars just don’t see child abuse as a crime. To them, it’s the devil leading a man astray, which can be forgiven by god. Plus, their entire family believes that, so even if therapy worked, Josh would be back to his old tricks in no time after returning home. 
I also don’t believe therapy ever cures child molesters. They’re just sick and personally, I believe they should be killed. Put down like you put down a dog with rabies.

[Tangy Bee]

I'll admit to watching their show in the early days and exactly enjoyed them. After Josh got married, I noticed certain things...were a bit off. I cringe when I try to watch for or few minutes now.  The last full episode I watched was Jessa giving birth to Spurge. I just wanted to see her as a "hot mess" for a change. Poor thing probably didn't have a choice. It was definitely not glamorous and I was very surprised at how much footage they allowed us to see. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Tangy Bee

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

Yes, physically she’s a grown woman but you can’t look at her through the eyes of your world, because been conditioned by a fundy world.

There has been so much of this discussed with the scandal and I do understand that they've been brainwashed to an extent.

But if that's the deal...well they can't be expected to act responsibly in their own and in their children's best interest (and I agree many can't) then cut every second generation man the same pass.  Because they also grew up steeped in the Kool-Aid.  And again, if that's the pass then I can log out and not look back because there is literally no point discussing any of this.  It is what it is and will never change because every person born into the cult is incapable of change so we can't expect anything better.  

The apologist posts for Mrs. Reber leave me bewildered and frankly wondering, not for the first time, what I'm doing here.  If women old enough to have grown children are so fragile and stupid that we cannot hold them to even basic standards of behavior because they aren't capable then okay....they're all giant children and as such shouldn't be in charge of minors or themselves but that won't change either.  

No, I don't know what this woman is capable of...but neither do any of you. 

Although I do appreciate people pointing out that fundy women don't view things the way we* do, after all this time on FJ I hadn't figured that out for myself so thanks for the heads up.

*FYI there is no "we" here.  I don't share the views of many people here and I think that's true for all of us.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 hours ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

[snip]

Yes, we don't know what was said behind closed doors before the Rebers agreed. But, I do believe she agreed to participate in this agreement very naively believing she would be able to have the life she was living pre-Smuggar. I do believe if she knew the full seriousness of the situation, then she would've put her foot down with her husband in order to get out of it.

[snip]

Like I said, I am not trying to "infantilize" her, I really don't believe she understood everything how we understood it, even with the judges restrictions. This is a culture where the women are taught to blindly follow their husbands lead. Mrs. Reber, probably, didn't have a word in edgewise until she found out her whole world was falling apart because of the agreement.

Did the judge explain everything? Yes. Was she warned about him living there and the consequences she and her husband would suffer if Josh stepped a toe out of line? Yes. Sadly, this is a culture where the women are suppressed to the point where the only career option they have is to be a dutiful housewife and mother following their headship until the very end.

 

 

To the first bolded...  Speculating is one thing, we can all guess at what someone may or may not have been thinking, but to come up with detailed scenarios and forming beliefs based on this (as you've said more than once) is a problem not just for you but for the discussion.  Some people skim messages boards, see stuff like this and repeat it as fact as they didn't read carefully enough to realize it was nothing but fanfiction from someone's head.  That's not something we can prevent, but we can try to keep people from literally making up scenarios and conversations out of whole cloth.  

To the second two bolded statements ...that is the very definition of infantilizing someone so I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word.

[FiveAcres]

6 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

To the second two bolded statements ...that is the very definition of infantilizing someone so I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word.

Denying these women agency is revictimizing them, even if it is done with charitable intentions. 

[EmmieJ]

4 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

I was just perusing Tumblr and a comment caught my eye. All the money JB is throwing at lawyers for Smuggar. He should have used that money years ago to get him real therapy. What is it about Smuggar that they bend over backwards for him? He's still evil and to me has always been unlikeable. Are they afraid he will write a tell all? Why sacrifice so many of your other children for this one? I don't get it. 

I think JB is hoping that somehow by hiring pricey lawyers, Josh will "beat the rap" or at most, get probation.  Based on what others who are more knowledgeable than I am regarding Federal prosecutions for the charges Josh is facing, that seems unlikely in the extreme.  But JB is hoping, because he wants that delicious TLC gravy train money to keep rolling in.  Me, on the other hand, want TLC to finally cancel the Duggars once and for all, and no other media outlet to pick them up for any amount of money.  

[Cam]

HerNameIsBuffy, when you write “Although I do appreciate people pointing out that fundy women don't view things the way we* do, after all this time on FJ I hadn't figured that out for myself so thanks for the heads up.” am I to understand that everything that is posted here is directed specifically to you? I guess I thought it was more of a round table discussion.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Cam

[nokidsmom]

25 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I think JB is hoping that somehow by hiring pricey lawyers, Josh will "beat the rap" or at most, get probation.  Based on what others who are more knowledgeable than I am regarding Federal prosecutions for the charges Josh is facing, that seems unlikely in the extreme.  But JB is hoping, because he wants that delicious TLC gravy train money to keep rolling in. 

 JB is trying to buy his way out of trouble and it's probably not been for the first time he has done so.   But this time the stakes are much higher, not just because of what Josh is facing but down deep, JB knows there's a good chance that this new Joshgate will mark the end of a lot of things: TLC money, the "wholesome Christian family" brand, and how is he going to support all the kids and their families with a reduced income not to mention paying big attorneys' fees. 

He may know that the family was able to somehow skate through the previous Joshgates fairly unscathed in terms of staying on the TLC gravy train, but this time I suspect he knows this time, it's much more serious.

JB might wish that more of his married kids had pulled a "Jill and Derick" and asserted their independence.  Even paying their TLC wages due is probably a lot less than having them on the family dole indefinitely. 

[JenniferJuniper]

2 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

JB might wish that more of his married kids had pulled a "Jill and Derick" and asserted their independence.  Even paying their TLC wages due is probably a lot less than having them on the family dole indefinitely. 

If just 15 of Jim Bob's kids have just 5 kids a piece, that's over 100 people that will "need" to be supported by Jim Bob.  The sons and SILs need to get their shit together fast.  As much as I don't like Derick, at least he took initiative, first breaking away with some cash in hand and then actually getting a law degree. 

For those that don't get their shit together, I see JB in Michael Palin's role as the father selling off his kids in The Meaning of Life.  "My mind's made up. I've given this long and careful thought, and it has to be medical experiments for the lot of you."

[lumpentheologie]

I don’t get the patronizing attitude toward people who mainly spend time in the Duggar and Bates threads. That’s what I do because I think they’re the most dangerous and also cause I don’t have time in my life to keep up with the JRod threads. ?  I get that there’s fangirling but some of us do stick around to combat that, and it’s not fair to paint us all with the same brush. 

I think lots of us don’t watch the shows. There are so many good recap options now that it’s easy not to. I stopped watching 11 years ago cause they were so damn boring even then, but there’s something to be said for not watching to keep the numbers down. I think the shows being canceled is the best thing that could happen to either family in terms of some of them stepping away from fundamentalism. 

IMO following them on social media is different because that’s not the reason they’re famous. And the SM is less edited, so you’re getting it straight from the horse’s mouth, as it were. I also want to be able to see what (hopefully damning) posts the family members like and that’s only possible if you follow them. 

[Alisamer]

I think I've only ever watched a couple episodes of the Duggars, and then only on Youtube. I much prefer recaps, myself. I'd watch a documentary, though! 

12 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I thought the judge said "up to six months." The trial is scheduled for the beginning of July. The right to a speedy trial is part of the 6th amendment.

The 6th amendment might have been better off to specify what "speedy" meant. I generally assume that a criminal trial is going to take at least a year, these days, as an outsider from the entire process. A former co-worker of mine is apparently still in jail awaiting a trial - it's been at least 18 months now. I was honestly surprised when they said it'd be the beginning of July. Have any of the people from the Jan. 6 insurrection been officially tried yet? They're still arresting people, and I know the "shaman" guy hasn't had his trial yet and he was one of the first arrested, wasn't he?

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

I'll admit to watching their show in the early days and exactly enjoyed them. After Josh got married, I noticed certain things...were a bit off. I cringe when I try to watch for or few minutes now.  The last full episode I watched was Jessa giving birth to Spurge. I just wanted to see her as a "hot mess" for a change. Poor thing probably didn't have a choice. It was definitely not glamorous and I was very surprised at how much footage they allowed us to see. 

I watched the show too. I enjoyed it. I didn't agree with the endless babies but they presented something much different than what was happening in reality. I think the last episode I saw was the one you did too. 

[nokidsmom]

20 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

As much as I don't like Derick, at least he took initiative, first breaking away with some cash in hand and then actually getting a law degree. 

Agreed, I don't care for him as he's insufferable as the rest of the clan he married into, but he did  eventually see through his former prayer partner for what he really is.   And that was after he spent some time going down the same dangerous rabbit hole, quitting a (presumably) good job to grift his way as a missionary.   At least he woke up, climbed out in time, stood up for what Jill was entitled to and decided to further his education to get ahead on his own.   I have to give him credit for that, it could not have been easy.

20 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

The sons and SILs need to get their shit together fast. 

I wish I could be a fly on the wall at the TTH and the Not Jill and Derick married kids' homes,  I bet there is some real panicking going on.  Gotta wonder how many secretly admire Jill and Derick especially now.    Outside of feeling sad over the situation, Jill and Derick are not impacted here.   

Edited May 24, 2021 by nokidsmom

[NancyDrewFan1989]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

To the first bolded...  Speculating is one thing, we can all guess at what someone may or may not have been thinking, but to come up with detailed scenarios and forming beliefs based on this (as you've said more than once) is a problem not just for you but for the discussion.  Some people skim messages boards, see stuff like this and repeat it as fact as they didn't read carefully enough to realize it was nothing but fanfiction from someone's head.  That's not something we can prevent, but we can try to keep people from literally making up scenarios and conversations out of whole cloth.  

To the second two bolded statements ...that is the very definition of infantilizing someone so I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word.

Um yes. I do know what infantilize means. But thanks for calling me stupid and bullying me. Just because I have a completely different view on how both Mrs. Reber and Anna are taking this from you because I am seeing it from their perspective not yours

[HerNameIsBuffy]

 

3 hours ago, Cam said:

HerNameIsBuffy, when you write “Although I do appreciate people pointing out that fundy women don't view things the way we* do, after all this time on FJ I hadn't figured that out for myself so thanks for the heads up.” am I to understand that everything that is posted here is directed specifically to you? I guess I thought it was more of a round table discussion.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.  All of FJ exists for my amusement...even threads I've never followed are there in case I run out of things to read one day.  

I couldn't have meant that anyone who has been around FJ for any length of time understands it's a given that the fundy mindset is very different than most mainstream people.  Oh wait, that is what I meant.  

Edited May 24, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy
typo