2020 Election Fallout 14: Arrests And The Big Lie

[47of74]

The Qanon Shaman ain't leaving jail before sentencing.

Quote

A judge has denied "QAnon Shaman" and Branch Trumpvidian Terrorist Jacob Chansley's bid to be released from jail before he is sentenced for participating in the January 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol.

Chansley, who is also known by his stage name Jake Angeli, pleaded guilty to a felony charge of obstructing an official proceeding last week. In a court order unsealed on Friday, U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth decided against releasing Chansley from jail prior to his sentencing hearing, which is set for November 17. Two previous requests for Chansley's release had also been denied.

The judge made the ruling after deciding that Chansley's attorney Albert Watkins had "failed to present clear and convincing evidence" that his client did not pose a danger to the community and would not attempt to flee before his sentencing hearing takes place.

Had the request been successful, Chansley would have been released to the St. Louis area, where a therapist was set to "meet with him for counseling up to three times a week" and a doctor would have monitored his health on a weekly basis. Lamberth concluded that the plan did not include any effort to "prevent Chansley from fleeing if he so desires."

Yep, it's the consequences of the Qanon Shaman's actions coming back to bite him in the butt. 

The Judge's order is here.  The Judge is a Raygun appointee too.

Yeah Chansley claims he's repudiated Qanon but I'd bet cash money that he'd be right back into that Q bullshit the second he got out of jail.  The judge noted how his mommy thinks the BT terrorist didn't do anything wrong and there's nothing to assure the judge the custodians would not look the other way if Chansley violated his release terms.

 

[Howl]

16 hours ago, 47of74 said:

The judge noted how his mommy thinks the BT terrorist didn't do anything wrong and there's nothing to assure the judge the custodians would not look the other way if Chansley violated his release terms.

I wish some other judges would be as astute before releasing terrorists back into the community to await trial or sentencing. 

There have been a few guys released who had so many red flags...

[Xan]

I just came across a screen cap from a surveillance camera on 1/6.  It's scary.  Any time someone starts talking about a peaceful group of tourists, show them this photo.

Spoiler

 

[fundiefan]

Spoiler

 

Billboard in Georgia. 

Anyone not taking this asshole & the evangelicals seriously is uneducated at best, a dangerous fool at worst.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by fundiefan

[Destiny]

6 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Billboard in Georgia. 

Anyone not taking this asshole & the evangelicals seriously is uneducated at best, a dangerous fool at worst.

 

Uhhh, it's been a while since I've read the bible (though I have read it through several times) but I'm pretty sure that that verse is referencing jesus. They aren't trying to say Trump is Jesus in evangelical-land, are they? Also, i'm pretty sure that the verse in question is in Isaiah somewhere. What the fuck are they doing referencing Romans 8:17?

Quote

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

 

[fundiefan]

1 minute ago, Destiny said:

Uhhh, it's been a while since I've read the bible (though I have read it through several times) but I'm pretty sure that that verse is referencing jesus. They aren't trying to say Trump is Jesus in evangelical-land, are they? Also, i'm pretty sure that the verse in question is in Isaiah somewhere. What the fuck are they doing referencing Romans 8:17?

 

I saw that billboard picture on Twitter, and this is in the comments. 

Yes, some ARE saying he is Jesus. Or better than Jesus. Or replaces Jesus. 

 

[Destiny]

Sigh. Just, sigh. I have nothing that I can even say anymore.

[thoughtful]

40 minutes ago, Destiny said:

I'm pretty sure that that verse is referencing jesus. They aren't trying to say Trump is Jesus in evangelical-land, are they? Also, i'm pretty sure that the verse in question is in Isaiah somewhere.

It is from Isaiah 9:6.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9&version=KJV

Christian tradition has interpreted it to mean Jesus. Jewish tradition has interpreted it to mean someone who has not come yet. Humanist tradition has interpreted it to mean a non-magical human that the ancient Hebrews were hoping would help them out.

And now we know that shit-for-brains tradition has interpreted it as being Trump.

😁

Edited September 13, 2021 by thoughtful
missing word

[Destiny]

1 minute ago, thoughtful said:

It is from Isaiah 9:6.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9&version=KJV

Christian tradition has interpreted it to mean Jesus. Jewish tradition has interpreted it to mean someone who has not come yet. Humanist tradition has interpreted it to mean a non-magical human that the ancient Hebrews were hoping would help them out.

And now we know that shit-for-brains tradition has interpreted as being Trump.

😁

Thanks. Like i said, it's been years since I've read the Bible, and I honestly didn't remember the details. I'm going to grossly generalise and assume that most Trumpers = Christian in some form. I just can't even with the equating Trump with Jesus. I know I learned some shit about idols and idolatry and putting things on the same level as god in Sunday School. Did these shit-for-brains skip those lessons?

[fundiefan]

They are 100% in opposition to what their bible says. And they don't freaking care. They've found a new god and are only holding onto the other one to use to convince others to join them. 

 

 

[thoughtful]

19 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Thanks. Like i said, it's been years since I've read the Bible, and I honestly didn't remember the details.

You're welcome. I mostly knew that text from singing Handel's Messiah. And I've heard it over and over recently, listening to Bro Gary (who says the governors will be on his shoulders, which is such a great mental image).

21 minutes ago, Destiny said:

I just can't even with the equating Trump with Jesus. I know I learned some shit about idols and idolatry and putting things on the same level as god in Sunday School. Did these shit-for-brains skip those lessons?

It seems they just have set that aside. I guess it's their form of picking and choosing. When it comes to cherry picking what we learn as kids, whether from school, parents or religious life, give me the people who hold on to things like kindness, logic, eagerness to learn, open-mindedness countered by the need for proof, and dump the cruel and illogical stuff.

These people, for whatever reasons their personalities dictate, seem happy to put aside whatever their church taught (and may still be telling them, as adults, unless the whole church has made Trump a god) about not making a human into an idol.

I know, I'm bringing up Bro Gary again, but, interestingly, he hates that. He adores Trump and refuses to acknowledge that Biden is president, but he screams against people who made Trump their God and stopped praying during his presidency because they were happy and satisfied. He doubts that Trump is even "saved."

So these people are less nuanced and stupider (and/or evil and/or pigheaded) than Gary. Think about that for a second!

[Destiny]

Just now, thoughtful said:

You're welcome. I mostly knew that text from singing Handel's Messiah

That's honestly probably why it stuck in my mind as being from Isaiah. I may not believe a word of it, but Messiah is one of the finest choral arrangements ever written IMHO. LOVE IT.

 

2 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

So these people are less nuanced and stupider (and/or evil and/or pigheaded) than Gary. Think about that for a second!

I'd rather not. In fact, I'm going to pretend your post ended without this paragraph in it!

Seriously, the level of intentional ignorance (or possibly some unintentional too) in some of these people is breathtaking.

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, Destiny said:

Thanks. Like i said, it's been years since I've read the Bible, and I honestly didn't remember the details. I'm going to grossly generalise and assume that most Trumpers = Christian in some form. I just can't even with the equating Trump with Jesus. I know I learned some shit about idols and idolatry and putting things on the same level as god in Sunday School. Did these shit-for-brains skip those lessons?

I'm actually wondering if that explicit level of imagery is causing or will cause some people to back off and reassess. To me - haven't been to church in several decades except for weddings, funerals and christenings - it is shockingly blasphemous. I hope that for some people who voted Trump because R, and "pro-life", and "christian" it is equally so. Behaviour might not get them to rethink, but billboards might.

 

[Coconut Flan]

3 hours ago, fundiefan said:

They are 100% in opposition to what their bible says. And they don't freaking care. They've found a new god and are only holding onto the other one to use to convince others to join them. 

And leading evangelicals wonder why people are leaving in droves.  I lasted less than a year in the 80s in an evangelical church before fleeing.  Even then there were huge red flags of trouble and false ideologies.  It's only gotten worse.  

[GreyhoundFan]

An interesting analysis: "The potential trouble with Jan. 6 defendant prosecutions"

Quote

D.C. and Capitol police are preparing for a rally Saturday with potentially hundreds of people in support of defendants who are jailed or facing charges over their actions on Jan. 6.

The protest comes as federal prosecutors move on from charging people who stormed the Capitol with smaller crimes to prosecuting those they say committed the most egregious ones, such as inciting people to intimidate and commit violence against elected officials.

But now those prosecutors may have run into a problem with their legal strategy.

At least two federal judges have questioned the main charge prosecutors are using to try to go after more than 200 people involved in the Jan. 6 insurrection, to obstruct “any official proceeding” of Congress, reports The Post’s Spencer S. Hsu.

But legal experts who spoke to The Fix say there’s still hope for prosecutors’ main legal avenue to punish some of the most prominent Jan. 6 insurrectionists. Here’s what’s going on.

The history of the charge

To “obstruct [an] official proceeding” is a relatively new crime, part of a statute in a 2002 law related to corporate criminal activities. Among many other things, Congress strengthened the sentencing guidelines for obstructing justice and destroying evidence in an investigation. Within that law, they said impeding “any official proceeding” could be punishable by up to 20 years in prison. (“Whoever corruptly … obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so.”)

One Jan. 6 defendant has pleaded guilty to this charge so far. Jon Ryan Schaffer, one of the founders of Oath Keepers and one of the first to try to break into the Capitol, pleaded guilty to obstruction of an official proceeding of Congress and trespassing on restricted grounds. Instead of the maximum 20 years, his plea agreement asks for 3½ to four years of prison as he provides information on other defendants.

Where the law is potentially tripping up prosecutors

Let’s revisit the day that Congress is set to certify Joe Biden’s victory in the presidential election. After hearing from defeated President Donald Trump’s on the National Mall, hundreds of his supporters smashed their way into the Capitol and tried to stop Congress from putting its official stamp of approval on Biden’s win. They only stalled that process; lawmakers returned later that night and approved his election. That certainly sounds like an obstruction of an official proceeding to a layperson.

But some of the defendants have tried to tease out different meanings from the law. For example, is stopping a largely procedural vote to confirm electoral results really obstruction of an official proceeding?

“It would be like someone interrupting a congressional declaration of war,” one defense attorney said. “That’s a very serious event, but it’s not obstruction of justice.”

That may sound like splitting hairs, but there are other pushbacks that seemed to resonate more with judges.

Part of the law talks about obstructing of a proceeding in the context of destroying evidence. So how is that tied to storming the Capitol? That’s what U.S. District Judge Amit P. Mehta, an Obama appointee, asked recently: “Scaring the daylights out of everyone in the House or Senate . . . to me is very different than destroying evidence or intimidating witnesses.”

Also, what even is destroying evidence? In 2005, the Supreme Court decided a related obstruction law didn’t apply to a fisherman who threw out fish to evade U.S. wildlife authorities. That had judges questioning whether the obstruction law could be thrown out in these cases as well, Hsu reports.

One problem from judges’ vantage point is that a law about obstruction could be viewed as too vague. So, too, could the crimes. Where is the line between trespassing in the Capitol and stopping its lawmakers from doing their jobs?

The vagueness of the law comes from the fact that lawmakers in 2002 were probably trying to legislate criminal activity that had been taken in the past and what they couldn’t imagine could come in the future. (Like people storming the Capitol.) They intentionally left room for interpretation by future judges.

And that’s what’s happening now, said Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. attorney under the Obama and Trump administrations and now a law professor at the University of Michigan. She said she thinks these judges are “just musing out loud” about how the law fits with Jan. 6, to hear more about how prosecutors understand it.

Prosecutors appear to have their reasons for using this 2002 obstruction law. One told a judge that the government plans to prove at trial that a defendant intended to stop these proceedings and intimidate Congress.

More broadly, it’s possible the federal government wasn’t expecting to meet such resistance from the Jan. 6 defendants. Cases like this usually end in plea deals and don’t go to trial. But a number of the Jan. 6 defendants are fighting the weightier charges every step of the way, said Michael German, a former FBI agent now at the Brennan Center’s national security program.

A Washington Post review found that about 44 percent of the Jan. 6 defendants are charged with low-level crimes such as trespassing or disorderly conduct and probably won’t serve any jail time. Prosecutors decided to get those cases out of the way first before they started with the more egregious crimes.

German has criticized the Justice Department’s focus on charging people with smaller crimes first, saying it has allowed too many of the violent offenders to fall through the cracks.

“There are still dozens, if not hundreds of people who did engage in violence at the Capitol who have not yet been identified and charged, and many of those — including some who were charged — continue to menace communities across the country without law enforcement intervention,” he said.

This summer, a Proud Boys member who was charged with trespassing and disorderly conduct related to Jan. 6 appeared at protests in Portland, Ore., with weapons and confronted liberal protesters, OregonLive reported.

We don’t know what will happen next

Despite some tough questioning from judges, prosecutors may well prevail with these obstruction of an official proceeding charges. One of the judges questioning the obstruction charge also accepted a plea deal for that same felony.

We’re not privy to why prosecutors chose this 2002 law to punish Jan. 6 insurrectionists. Although there are other laws that criminalize interfering with Congress, they carry a lower penalty. McQuade said this is the most well-known law on the books about obstruction.

And legal experts stressed that the proceedings are in the early stages, and more details about their strategy could be revealed as these cases get prosecuted in the coming months.

 

[Alisamer]

On 9/13/2021 at 5:05 PM, Ozlsn said:

I'm actually wondering if that explicit level of imagery is causing or will cause some people to back off and reassess. To me - haven't been to church in several decades except for weddings, funerals and christenings - it is shockingly blasphemous. I hope that for some people who voted Trump because R, and "pro-life", and "christian" it is equally so. Behaviour might not get them to rethink, but billboards might.

 

I hope so. I really hope so. I've been amazed from the beginning at the number of "Christians" who have supported Trump - I would have thought his outright nastiness and obvious lack of morals would have turned them off. But once he got the nomination, it seems like all that went out the window. 

But images of him on the cross, and other images basically equating him to Jesus? That's got to be a line some people aren't willing to cross, surely. It breaks a commandment, even.

I think the hardcore Trumpsters, the ones buying up the hats and shirts, and attending anything he speaks at, are only really "Christian" in name. A lot of them live around me. They're generally white, blue collar, undereducated, and rural. They say they are Christian, when asked, but many haven't darkened the door of a church in decades other than for weddings and funerals - and maybe an occasional Christmas Eve or Easter service. They know John 3:16, and the first couple of the Ten Commandments, and that's about it for the Bible, though they probably have an old family Bible somewhere in their house maybe. They consider themselves patriotic, in that they stand for the national anthem at Nascar races and football games and like "America" themed stuff. They bow their heads when a public prayer is said, but only pray themselves if they're in a jam or maybe before Thanksgiving dinner. They aren't fundamentalists, but they'll happily wear a cross necklace and put Jesusy stickers on their cars. Their parents and grandparents probably dragged them to church as kids, at least on occasion, but God just kind of exists in the background ready to save their asses when they need it. They'll try not to sin, but they don't have a long list of things they consider "sin" either. 

Those people, I'm not surprised to see them equating Trump with Jesus. They treat Jesus and Trump like their favorite pro wrestlers - someone they cheer for and look up to, but who is not actively involved in their lives in any way. Just somebody they go see at a show (or church) once in a while. They'll wear a Trump T-shirt as easily as an "In God We Trust" T-shirt. 

But actual going-to-church evangelicals, and especially fundamentalists? I'm really surprised when they support Trump. They know better. They supposedly live by the Bible, and read it constantly. How can they not see the hypocrisy? I get them gritting their teeth and voting for him because of "the unborn" but I don't understand them essentially worshiping Trump. But many of them do. It's mindblowing.

[Ozlsn]

13 hours ago, Alisamer said:

But actual going-to-church evangelicals, and especially fundamentalists? I'm really surprised when they support Trump. They know better. They supposedly live by the Bible, and read it constantly. How can they not see the hypocrisy

I was reading this analysis of the discrepancy between Scott Morrison's alleged beliefs and his actions (he's Prime Minister of Australia, and a member of Hillsong). The bit I found really interesting was:

" Even Morrison, despite his heartless attitudes towards those Australians he considers insignificant and peripheral, is still capable – I assume – of occasionally showing the kindness and compassion of Jesus, the man he claims to follow.  These are, after all, the qualities Jesus expected.  “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another” (John 13:35). The problem is these qualities are primarily reserved for Sunday use. Come Monday, it’s a different story all together. It is a classic case of “compartmentalization” whereby God, ego and social responsibilities are swapped according to the objective of the moment."

[Becky]

The daily email update from the NY Times today includes info on what they are calling the "valorization" of Jan. 6th - Republican pols and pundits turning the rioters into patriotic heroes, with a significant impact on Republican voters.  It includes a list of some of the most egregious and disgusting.  The revolting and scary conclusion and list of offenders, spoilered 'cuz it's a little long:

Spoiler

...During the week after the attack, 80 percent of Republicans said they opposed it, according to a Washington Post poll. By the summer, many attitudes had changed. More than half of Trump voters described the events of Jan. 6 as “patriotism” and “defending freedom,” according to a CBS News/YouGov poll in July.

And a CNN poll this month found that 78 percent of Republicans believed that the election was stolen from Trump — which was the original false rationale for the Jan. 6 rally that turned into the attack.

The list

Representative Madison Cawthorn of North Carolina cast those arrested after the riot as “political prisoners” and suggested he wanted to “try and bust them out.”

Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin described the attackers as “people that love this country, that truly respect law enforcement.”

Senate Republicans blocked Congress from creating an independent commission to investigate the attack. Senator Mitch McConnell called it a partisan effort “to debate things that occurred in the past.”

Tucker Carlson of Fox News described the death of Ashli Babbitt — whom a police officer fatally shot as she tried to force her way through a barricade protecting members of Congress — as an execution, and asked whether federal officials are “now allowed to kill unarmed women who protest the regime.”

J.D. Vance, a best-selling author and Republican Senate candidate in Ohio, said that there were “some bad apples” but that “most of the people there were actually super peaceful.”

Julie Kelly of the journal American Greatness suggested Michael Fanone — a Washington police officer who suffered a heart attack and a brain injury during the attack — was lying about it, and called him a “crisis actor.”

Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia said on the House floor, “The people who breached the Capitol on Jan. 6 are being abused.”

Representative Paul Gosar of Arizona accused law enforcement of “harassing peaceful patriots” and “law-abiding U.S. citizens.”

Representative Jody Hice of Georgia said, “It was Trump supporters who lost their lives that day, not Trump supporters who were taking the lives of others.”

Four Republican House members staged actions at the Justice Department and a D.C. jail demanding information about the treatment of Jan. 6 defendants. One of them, Gosar, said the defendants were being “persecuted.”

Laura Ingraham claimed on Fox News that many other protests last year “were far worse than this.”

Carlson, Greene and Candace Owens, a conservative commentator, have all suggested that the F.B.I. or Justice Department was behind the riot.

Joe Kent — a Washington State Republican running with Trump’s endorsement against one of the 10 Republicans who voted to impeach Trump over Jan. 6 — plans to attend tomorrow’s rally, The Times reports.

 

[Dandruff]

On 9/16/2021 at 2:57 PM, Alisamer said:

But actual going-to-church evangelicals, and especially fundamentalists? I'm really surprised when they support Trump. They know better. They supposedly live by the Bible, and read it constantly. How can they not see the hypocrisy? I get them gritting their teeth and voting for him because of "the unborn" but I don't understand them essentially worshiping Trump. But many of them do. It's mindblowing.

I know some very religious Jews who also support him.  They're not stupid and they're not mean.  I suspect that a good part of the reason that Trump was able to garner the support he did was that he was good at telling "his" people who to listen to.  If you're a Trump supporter and most of the people you know support Trump, and are watching the same channels as you are, and not watching the same channels as you are, and possibly getting the same reinforcing emails/mail/texts/whatever as you are, then the truth is going to appear to be a far different thing than for those who don't have blinders on.

I think a lot of these people are genuinely confused at the hostility shown toward Trump, for the reasons I stated above; however, the Jewish Trump supporters I know stop short of worshipping him since that would be extremely anti-Jewish.  They do think he has been persecuted though, and are quick to try to explain away or rationalize any ugly stuff I've occasionally brought up.

 

[Xan]

The hate rally didn't go well today.  The crowd was sparse and none of the big names showed up.  Most articles say that fewer than 500 people showed up and a lot of them were journalists.  The police arrested one guy with a knife.  Here's a pic of the crowd and one of a typical attendee.

Spoiler

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Xan

[Dandruff]

4 hours ago, Xan said:

The hate rally didn't go well today.  The crowd was sparse and none of the big names showed up.  Most articles say that fewer than 500 people showed up and a lot of them were journalists.

No big names but these wipes were willing to go front and center to try to help their fellow losers...which I'm sure they didn't.

[fraurosena]

Then again, Trump didn’t signal his approval until the last minute, so I guess this low turnout was to be expected. His belated approval was probably because  writing this missive took up all his concentration:

Delusional indeed, and seemingly  unaware that Georgia is investigating his attempt to coerce Raffensperger to change the election results (remember that phone call?) by ‘finding’ enough votes for him. Those investigators are going to love this letter…

[Shrubbery]

16 hours ago, Xan said:

The hate rally didn't go well today.  The crowd was sparse and none of the big names showed up.  Most articles say that fewer than 500 people showed up and a lot of them were journalists.  The police arrested one guy with a knife.  Here's a pic of the crowd and one of a typical attendee.

No, no, FAKE NEWS, the crowd was large, bigly large, at least twice as large as the crowds at Obama‘s insurrection rally!!

 

[danvillebelle]

More people than that turn out for the Christmas parade in my tiny podunk town.  That photo made me giggle out loud.  

On 9/16/2021 at 1:57 PM, Alisamer said:

I think the hardcore Trumpsters, the ones buying up the hats and shirts, and attending anything he speaks at, are only really "Christian" in name. A lot of them live around me. They're generally white, blue collar, undereducated, and rural. They say they are Christian, when asked, but many haven't darkened the door of a church in decades other than for weddings and funerals - and maybe an occasional Christmas Eve or Easter service. They know John 3:16, and the first couple of the Ten Commandments, and that's about it for the Bible, though they probably have an old family Bible somewhere in their house maybe. They consider themselves patriotic, in that they stand for the national anthem at Nascar races and football games and like "America" themed stuff. They bow their heads when a public prayer is said, but only pray themselves if they're in a jam or maybe before Thanksgiving dinner.

This describes where I live to a tee.  Our tiny town has several churches, but they all have only a couple to a few dozen people on Sundays and those are mostly the older generation.  I'm fairly certain the occupants of the houses that have "Fuck Biden" flags in the yard aren't regular churchgoers (but then again maybe they are, who knows any more).

[AlmostSavedAtTacoBell]

Jilldo and DDD should have taken the opportunity to load up the RV for another not-vacation. They would have not only amped up the rally numbers but the circus atmosphere. We all know our Jill must out crazy everyone else so with Biden stimmy money in hand, can you imagine the show she would have made rolling into the rally to support her beloved Trump? “I know the guy said not to wear Trump stuff and that it’s not a Trump rally but he didn’t mean US! Now put on your red, white, & blue clothes I dreckorated with Trump bumper stickers, find your flip flops, get your instruments ready- we are going to ROCK this place!”