2020 Election Fallout 14: Arrests And The Big Lie

[fraurosena]

3 hours ago, Xan said:

The most interesting thing to me was how Pence refused to get in the Secret Service car.  It looks as if he was afraid they were in on it and would take him somewhere and, I don't know... kill him?  He flatly refused so he has a bit more street smarts than I've previously believed.

Indeed. He clearly knew something was not right and didn't trust them. We know about Eastman's accusatory email to Pence's aide. Who knows what else was communicated that is not publicly known...

 

 

[Howl]

On 11/10/2021 at 8:36 AM, Xan said:

The most interesting thing to me was how Pence refused to get in the Secret Service car.  It looks as if he was afraid they were in on it and would take him somewhere and, I don't know... kill him?  He flatly refused so he has a bit more street smarts than I've previously believed.

One line of thinking is that he knew if he got in the car, they would NOT bring him back to the building, thus the indefinite delaying of the certification of electoral votes would be successful.  So...Pence knew something, he was being pressured to not complete his role in certifying the votes, but the extent to which he knew there was an actual plot afoot...who knows.  Well, somebody knows, we just don't know who yet.  I'm grateful (yes, grateful) that this  spineless worm grew a pair and carried out his role, thus ensuring that Biden was legally the winner of the election.  

That said, Biden decided to bring on new Secret Service agents at the beginning of his administration, ones who had not been with Trump.  Wise move on is part, IMHO. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Howl

[SassyPants]

On 11/10/2021 at 6:36 AM, Xan said:

I'm thinking along the lines of "I wonder what he's been promised".  He asked to not release the photos of himself in the parking garage so he knows how damning they are.  Are there dark money sources who plan to pay him for his cooperation?  Has he been offered lucrative position on corporate boards or Republican speaking engagements?  When politicians are willing to pretend things are fine at this level, I think there is money involved.

Of course, he could still be worried about his safety.  The Trumpies are crazy and violent.  I think he gets some Secret Service protection but I'm not sure for how long.  

The most interesting thing to me was how Pence refused to get in the Secret Service car.  It looks as if he was afraid they were in on it and would take him somewhere and, I don't know... kill him?  He flatly refused so he has a bit more street smarts than I've previously believed.

Not street smart enough…he hitched his wagon to Trump. That boneheaded move told me everything I ever needed to know about Pence. Money and power over anything else, including: morals, values, family, mother, God and country. 

[PinkGreyBrown]

On 11/10/2021 at 6:36 AM, Xan said:

 I think he gets some Secret Service protection but I'm not sure for how long. 

Vice President gets six months of protection once out of office. From the Secret Service website:
 

Quote

 

2008

Congress passed legislation (H.R. 5938); the “Former Vice President Protection Act of 2008,” which authorized Secret Service protection for former Vice Presidents, their spouses and their children less than 16 years of age for up to six months after the Vice President’s term in office has ended.

 

So if Pence seems nervous, yeah, understandable. Trump's fans are fanatical.

[Cartmann99]

Mark Meadows won't cooperate with Capitol riot committee until court rules on executive privilege

Quote

CNN reports that an attorney representing Meadows wrote a letter in which he blamed President Joe Biden for not doing enough to protect the prerogatives of the executive branch, and said it was because of this that Meadows would not be cooperating unless forced to do so.

"Mr. Meadows remains under the instructions of former President Trump to respect longstanding principles of executive privilege," the attorney wrote. "It now appears the courts will have to resolve this conflict."

The question now is whether the committee will vote to hold Meadows in criminal contempt as it did last month when Trump ally Steve Bannon flatly refused to cooperate with the investigation.

 

[Ozlsn]

11 hours ago, Cartmann99 said:

Mark Meadows won't cooperate with Capitol riot committee until court rules on executive privilege

 

So just how many people can claim executive privilege here? I wish they would start shoving their arses into federal prisons for contempt until they decide complying might be the better option.

[smittykins]

20 hours ago, PinkGreyBrown said:

Vice President gets six months of protection once out of office. From the Secret Service website:
 

So if Pence seems nervous, yeah, understandable. Trump's fans are fanatical.

He’s going to have a target on his back for the rest of his life.

[fraurosena]

20 hours ago, Cartmann99 said:

Mark Meadows won't cooperate with Capitol riot committee until court rules on executive privilege

 

Oh, I am soo surprised! Who would have thought he would claim executive privilege? 

/s

It's time the courts start expediting these frivolous cases quickly. We all know what the eventual results will be, so why delay getting the appeals through the court system all the way to the SC as speedily as possible? Because there is no question that every decision will be appealed until they run out of options, and these delay tactics should be nipped in the bud.

[Cartmann99]

 

[fraurosena]

Such good news.

 

[Ozlsn]

3 hours ago, Cartmann99 said:

 

Good. Now arrest him and lock him up. As, you know, a bit of an example to others thinking along similar lines.

[formergothardite]

I’ll breathe a sigh of relief when he is locked up in jail. I have a feeling he will try to drag this out. 

[fraurosena]

[thoughtful]

7 hours ago, fraurosena said:

The only way that would have been better is if the Chyron had been in Spanish.

[Howl]

18 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I’ll breathe a sigh of relief when he is locked up in jail. I have a feeling he will try to drag this out. 

Yes, we all will.  But this process will drag on and on.  I'll be amazed if Bannon spends a single minute in prison or pay a single penny in fines. 

Bannon will plead not guilty, a trial date will be set and its off to the races.  The entire concept of the meaning and limits of executive privilege is going to be hashed out and whatever the verdict is, it will be appealed to infinity.  Plus the jury may not convict.   Let's say he is convicted.  This a misdemeanor. The max sentence he will get is a year in jail and a $100,000 fine.  He'll go to a "country club" prison for non violent offenders and do some easy time.  

This same process will be repeated for the other people who have been subpoenaed.  Other than staggering lawyers fees,  I doubt if any of those being subpoenaed are sweating bullets.  

If he is convicted and serves time, there is still nothing that compels him to testify. 

This NBC News article contains some background on contempt of Congress charges. It isn't encouraging. 

Former Trump adviser Steve Bannon indicted by federal grand jury for contempt of Congress The indictment is a first: No one has been prosecuted for contempt of Congress when executive privilege was asserted.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Howl

[Howl]

An ETA to my previous post!

I just saw posts by Angry_Staffer on twitter. His take is different from mine and probably better informed! 

He is saying that the Bannon indictment is a huge deal, resulting in serious, brick sh***ing concern among the others who have received subpoenas. 

Also, his impression is that Trump's executive privilege appeal will be turned around very quickly and denied and the Supreme Court will not take it, essentially because it's too ridiculous. 

On the other hand, this: 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Howl

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

He is saying that the Bannon indictment is a huge deal, resulting in serious, brick sh***ing concern among the others who have received subpoenas. 

Which is the main reason they've done this one I think. To give pause to people who, although quite well off, are seeing the legal bills coming in and are starting to wonder if they really want to risk it. The true believers probably will, but those less so... not as much. 

[Xan]

Judge Nichols has ruled against Trump in the Dominion defamation lawsuit proceeding and he didn't interfere in the NY lawsuit like Trump wanted him to do.  He's like some of the other Trump judges. -- not totally loyal.

[fraurosena]

6 hours ago, Xan said:

He's like some of the other Trump judges. -- not totally loyal.

Which is just as it should be. No matter which administration appoints you, a judge should be loyal to one thing, and one thing only: the rule of law.

The thought that many have that there is (or should be) loyalty to a political party above all else has one — rather important— drawback.

Once appointed there is nothing to incentivize judges into adhering to party politics if they choose judiciary integrity instead. 

[Cartmann99]

A desperate plan to keep Trump in office:

The unrolled version is here.

[Becky]

58 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

A desperate plan to keep Trump in office:

The unrolled version is here.

Outrageous!  I do not understand how this does not amount to sedition, or conspiracy, or dear gods SOMETHING criminal! Aren't there laws against this kind of election tampering??  JFC, it is terrifying that these people may yet worm their way back into the White House.  Can't anyone take them down for this?

[fraurosena]

 

[Cartmann99]

 

[Howl]

Quote

Kurt Bardella  @kurtbardella tweeted:  It’s hard to believe this is the anchor that used to be the face of financial news …

No one seems to have figured out what turned Maria Bartiromo from a respected financial reporter into an absolute unhinged Trump-humping wing nut. 

Anyway, back to Bannon (and I'll post this on the Bannon-specific thread as well).  Lawfare has a blog post up discussing the legal complexities of the Bannon case.  We all wish it was "revolting, scabrous skin suit indicted & arrested for flouting Congressional subpoenas, put on trial STAT, convicted and goes straight to jail!" 

But it is not at all that simple. Note that this was written a few days BEFORE Bannon was indicted, but still relevant to the process that led up to the indictment as well as the issues that have to be decided by a jury at trial. 

Why the Justice Department Is Taking So Long to Indict Steve Bannon

Edited November 16, 2021 by Howl

[GreyhoundFan]

Good. I wish it were a longer sentence. "‘QAnon shaman’ sentenced to 41 months for role in Capitol riot"

Quote

Jacob Chansley, whose brightly painted face, tattooed torso and horned cap became a visual icon of the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, was sentenced Wednesday to 41 months in prison by a federal judge in Washington. His lawyer had asked the judge to impose a sentence of time already served, basically the entire 10 months since the insurrection, during which Chansley attracted more attention for demanding an organic diet while in jail and giving an interview to “60 Minutes.”

The sentence of roughly 3 ½ years is equal to the longest yet handed down to a Capitol rioter. Of the roughly 130 people who have pleaded guilty so far, only 16 have admitted to felonies, and Chansley is the fourth felon to be sentenced. The other three received terms of eight, 14 and last week a man who punched a Capitol police officer also received 41 months.

Chansley, 34, was photographed parading shirtless through the halls of the Capitol with a six-foot spear, howling through a bullhorn and then sitting in the vice president’s chair in the Senate. He became known as the “QAnon Shaman” because of his appearances at gatherings of the “QAnon” conspiracy theorists and his Shamanic religious beliefs.

Prosecutors quoted Chansley offering a prayer while sitting at the dais of the Senate, thanking God for “filling this chamber with patriots that love you. … Thank you for allowing us to get rid of the communists, the globalists, and the traitors within our government.”

Chansley’s “now-famous criminal acts made him the public face of the Capitol riot,” prosecutors wrote in a sentencing memo. With a suggested sentencing range of 41 to 51 months, the government asked for the maximum 51 months.

Chansley’s lawyer, Albert S. Watkins, argued that his client had been sufficiently penalized by his 10 months in jail.

“Mr. Chansley is in dire need of mental health treatment,” Watkins wrote in his sentencing memo. He said that a psychological evaluation earlier this year found that Chansley suffered from schizotypal personality disorder, anxiety and depression.

Watkins asked U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth to go below the sentencing guidelines range and release his client, due in part to Chansley’s “mental health infirmities of significance.”

Chansley spoke to the judge for about 30 minutes, repeatedly invoking his spiritual guides of Jesus Christ and Mohandas Gandhi. “Gandhi would allow his loyalty to God and truth to guide him to accepting responsibility,” Chansley said. “I was wrong for entering the Capitol. I have no excuse. No excuse whatsoever. My behavior was indefensible.”

Chansley’s lengthy comments, in which he praised Lamberth’s military service as a lawyer in the judge advocate corps, seemed to convince the judge that he had made significant changes. “I think your remarks are the most remarkable that I’ve heard in 34 years” as a judge, Lamberth said. “I think you are genuine in your remorse. Parts of those remarks are akin to the kinds of things that Martin Luther King would have said.”

But Lamberth said he could not reduce Chansley’s sentence below the recommended guidelines because “What you did here was horrific,” the judge said, “as you now concede. And obstructing the government as you did is the type of conduct that is so serious that I cannot justify a downward departure. I do think the minimum end of the guidelines is what you’ve earned because you’ve done everything right from the time that you started, and you’ve certainly done everything good today, convinced the court that you’re a new person.”

Chansley, who lives in Phoenix, had developed a following on various social media platforms in the months before Jan. 6, and posted messages such as, “We shall have no real hope to survive the enemies arrayed against us until we hang the traitors lurking among us,” prosecutors said.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Kimberly L. Paschall noted that Chansley and Watkins had frequently claimed that his protests were peaceful. Reading from his social media posts, Paschall said: “That is not peaceful. It’s a call to battle.”

Chansley drove from Phoenix to Washington and was first spotted outside the Capitol at 1:50 p.m. on Jan. 6, according to court records. There was ample photo and video documentation of Chansley’s movements, wearing a fur vest, carrying an American flag tied to a pole with a spear at the tip, and using a bullhorn. Paschall played some of it for Lamberth on Wednesday. Prosecutors said Chansley was among the first rioters inside the Capitol on Jan. 6. He also was the first one indicted.

Chansley used his bullhorn “to rile up the crowd and demand that lawmakers be brought out,” prosecutors said. At 2:52 p.m., he entered the Senate gallery and began screaming obscenities, one of the videos showed.

He then gained access to the Senate floor, took the seat that Vice President Mike Pence had recently vacated, took pictures of himself and declared that Pence was a traitor. “It’s only a matter of time. Justice is coming!” Chansley wrote on a paper on the dais, prosecutors said.

“What he wrote there,” Lamberth said, “is a big problem.”

Chansley was inside the Capitol for more than an hour, prosecutors said. He then drove back to Phoenix and gave an interview to NBC News in which he said, “The fact that we had a bunch of our traitors in office hunker down, put on their gas masks and retreat into their underground bunker, I consider that a win.” When he learned that the FBI was looking for him, he called the bureau and told them he was glad he sat in Pence’s chair, and called him “a child-trafficking traitor.”

While in jail, Chansley spoke to “60 Minutes+” and told them he was allowed into the Capitol by the police, and that he was merely intending “to bring divinity, to bring God back into the Senate.”

Chansley pleaded guilty in September to one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, namely the counting of the electoral votes in the presidential election. The charge has a maximum 20-year prison sentence, but Chansley had no prior criminal history and was not accused of committing any violence on Jan. 6.

In arguing for a 51-month sentence, Paschall wrote in her sentencing memo that “the peaceful transition of power in our nation was disrupted by a mob of thousands. … And this defendant was, quite literally, their flag-bearer.”

Paschall told the judge Wednesday that “deterrence weighed heavily in the government’s recommendations here.” She said prosecutors wanted to send the message, “Don’t think the justice system will sit idly by while you attempt to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power.”

Watkins argued that “general deterrence does not justify a sentence in excess of time served.”

He cited cases in his memo in which judges imposed sentences below the recommended guidelines because of the defendant’s health conditions.

He noted that while Chansley was on active duty in the Navy, a psychological evaluation was done in 2006 which diagnosed him with “mental health infirmities,” but that was never revealed to Chansley. On Jan. 6, his actions, appearance and Shamanic chants “were obvious indicia of mental health vulnerabilities,” Watkins wrote.

“He made himself the image of the riot,” Lambert told Watkins on Wednesday.

Watkins agreed.

“Jake is a horrific image indeed,” Watkins said. “This assault on democracy was repugnant.”

Lamberth also issued the other 41-month sentence in the Jan. 6 cases, to Scott Kevin Fairlamb for assault on a police officer.

“You didn’t slug anybody,” the judge told Chansley, “but what you did here was actually obstruct the functioning of the whole government.”