Meghan and Harry 6: Everything about this Is Kind of Cringe

[EmCatlyn]

13 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I think both is true. They tried to strongarm and this was the perfect momentum in their view (big mistake). But I think the RF definitely ignored their wish to talk for a bit. What I wonder is what exactly would have been discussed if the talk had happened before they heard about the article. Because it sounded as if they were actually trying to talk about different roles instead of stepping back (but not completely only to move and earn money). The stepping back sounded like the last desperate move but after more than one year it’s pretty unclear what exactly they wanted in the first place. Different roles? More help against tabloid headlines? The opportunity to earn money? Escaping a racist environment? Getting a therapist? 
If they had been nagging about wanting different roles and complaining all the time about negative press I can totally see no one wanting to have this discussion again and thereby missing that they were determined to step back if they didn’t get what they want. 
But there are also some things that leave the uneasy feeling of them planning the exit for much much longer. But their many plot holes is another problem. 
@Beermeet the money question is definitely a good one. I think they have worked their way through his inheritance from Diana by now. Will be interesting if there is any coming their way by Philip (I don’t know UK law, but my guess is most goes to his wife and from there it will be passed on to the children when her time comes. I don’t really see anything going to the grandchildren or great grandchildren in a big capacity. It’s not as if any of them needs it. ). H has a job as Chief Impact Officer.  There was allegedly a $500.000 cheque for her book and a paid for speaking gig. I am not sure how much income is really at hand from Netflix and Spotify. Because with Netflix they should have production costs. And if they plan on promoting the unheard voices from the likes as Elton John, Stacey Abrams, James Corden and Naomi Osaka in their podcast this will probably also cost quite some money. I highly doubt they will come on for free so H&M can earn money. I wonder if they get paid for their interviews. 
Archwell is a foundation rather than a charity so it could provided a good  income if it was profitable. But I think the paperwork is still not finalised? But I haven’t heard anything in that regard. 
So yeah, I do wonder how they finance themselves but it’s really not my problem as long as it isn’t my money. I do think they overestimated how much money they could make and I still wonder why they thought their status warranted a multi million dollar villa if they had to whine about being cut off financially (even though it seems recollections might vary about that as well). You can only spend as much as you have and maybe you just cannot afford the life you dream of regarding materialistic markers. I would say that’s true for most people. Suck it up and downsize.

Harry is in Prince Phillip’s will along with the other grandchildren and three loyal aides.  Harry also got a nice inheritance from his great-grandmother (the Queen Mum) when she died.  I don’t remember amounts, but I remember that he got a much larger share than William because William would get the throne.  

He talks about the inheritance from Diana not only because it was (probably) the largest but because he wants to frame himself as her son ( a rebel who challenges the monarchy, a “feeling” person who “protected” his wife and son from the unnatural, cold Windsor family).  But he has other sources of income—And remember that it’s not just the money he has inherited but the income it brings from investing it.  

Though he may have had to cut into the principal to cover expenses after he was no longer the guest of friends—Tyler Perry even provided security, I hear—I don’t think he’s anywhere near run through the inheritance from Diana and the Queen Mother, and now he gets a little boost from Phillip’s will also.

And then there is the money from co-producing things with Oprah, and so forth.  I’m not worried they will have to give up the huge house with a sauna, a playground for the kids, etc. 

[just_ordinary]

Is he? I thought we only know for sure about the three aids and Louise and the ponies? I have seen nothing official but only “insiders” speculating about the rest.
I mean I can totally see him giving away sentimental things to people. Like a watch or painting. But I highly doubt there will be another £££ cash flow. If cash it will be more £. Obviously that would still be enough for normal people.
If your assumption about their financial status is true, they shouldn’t run around whining that Daddy stopped giving them money. 

More thoughts to older comments:
Regarding the funeral- I don’t think it’s odd that the York husbands were there. Jack has been with Eugenie for over a decade now and it’s safe to assume he was pretty much part of the family for some time. And Eduardo has probably had as much contact with PP and TQ as Meghan. To question why any of them had their significant other by their side when they have to say goodbye to a beloved family member is also a bit strange. They are all grandchildren so same rights for all.

And of course Peter in the middle was probably for easing tension but their explanation about age order still holds. Podiums have mostly the first place in the middle, second to the left (looking from the front) and third to the right. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by just_ordinary

[bird]

Am I the only one who remembers an interview with Harry and Meghan from before the wedding where they are talking about how they met and he says that Meghan's family isn't great (paraphrasing) and that the royal family will be her new family. I feel like I distinctly remember this but no one ever mentions it. It honestly seemed the opposite to this idea that he's wanted to leave his family for over a decade. Yes they are the royal family and are weird and unrelatable but they are still a family and they WERE close and appeared to enjoy each others company before the wedding. And then Charles stepped up and walked her down the aisle which I thought was really kind (I am NOT a Charles fan but credit where credit is due) and the wedding was quite a show of acceptance of her heritage. See also the significance of the Sussex title. I just can't marry up the before the wedding and wedding to the accusations post wedding. 

[Xanariel]

I would be very much surprised if Harry's anywhere close to running through his money, especially with the deals struck with Netflix and Spotify. I think he likely massively dislikes the thought of dipping into his own reserves, hence why he was so bitter about Charles refusing to pay for any more, but he's got Diana's money, money from the Queen Mother and Philip - he and Meghan are pretty much set for life. 

I go back and forth over exactly how the talks with the BRF may have broken down. I can buy that the BRF/courtiers were inflexible at points, didn't take the Sussexes seriously at other stages, and locked ranks when the statement came out whereas they might have been willing to give a little way before. 

But Harry and Meghan have definitely been a little shifty on the truth at different points. They can't claim they only struck deals to afford security when they were already holding meetings a year prior to leaving. They seem to have had the idea that jumping the gun and putting their statement out in the open would force the BRF to cave, because there is no other reason I can fathom why you would set out your future plans without checking with the people who would need to both sign off and fund it. 

And they seem pretty obsessed with the idea that William's family is getting stuff they aren't, so I think there was a pretty uncomfortable dynamic with the Cambridges there that showcased itself with how done Will and Kate looked at the Commonwealth ceremony. 

[viii]

4 hours ago, bird said:

Am I the only one who remembers an interview with Harry and Meghan from before the wedding where they are talking about how they met and he says that Meghan's family isn't great (paraphrasing) and that the royal family will be her new family. I feel like I distinctly remember this but no one ever mentions it. It honestly seemed the opposite to this idea that he's wanted to leave his family for over a decade. Yes they are the royal family and are weird and unrelatable but they are still a family and they WERE close and appeared to enjoy each others company before the wedding. And then Charles stepped up and walked her down the aisle which I thought was really kind (I am NOT a Charles fan but credit where credit is due) and the wedding was quite a show of acceptance of her heritage. See also the significance of the Sussex title. I just can't marry up the before the wedding and wedding to the accusations post wedding. 

I agree. I don’t believe any of this was planned before the wedding because if it had been, I think it would have been executed better. 

I think Harry was either not completely honest and/or was naive about a lot of things.  I think Meghan was a little starry-eyed. She went from a C-list actress to an A-list public persona very quickly. I genuinely believe they thought they could do all their humanitarian stuff while doing the odd royal event. However, between realizing they could not set their own schedules and their lives were no longer their own, Meghan’s mental health collapsed. She has always seemed like the strong one between the pair of them and so when she went down, so did Harry. They went into panic mode and here we are 18 months later with a clusterfuck. 

[LittleOwl]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57378117

Baby Sussex 

[nvmbr02]

I really like her name. No surprise having Diana as a middle name. 

[Lollipopgirl]

I’m sorry but this feels a bit odd to me. Lilibet is a very personal nickname for the queen. I’m glad both mother and baby are doing well and any baby is a celebration but I’m really not sure about the name.

 

 

 

[Beermeet]

They named the baby Lilibet because, of course they did.  But the generational pain, the racism, the everything!   No homage to Doria, who she actually knows.  Nope.  Lilibet Diana takes some fucking nerve. Wow!

 

[DalmatianCat]

6 hours ago, bird said:

Am I the only one who remembers an interview with Harry and Meghan from before the wedding where they are talking about how they met and he says that Meghan's family isn't great (paraphrasing) and that the royal family will be her new family. I feel like I distinctly remember this but no one ever mentions it. It honestly seemed the opposite to this idea that he's wanted to leave his family for over a decade. Yes they are the royal family and are weird and unrelatable but they are still a family and they WERE close and appeared to enjoy each others company before the wedding. And then Charles stepped up and walked her down the aisle which I thought was really kind (I am NOT a Charles fan but credit where credit is due) and the wedding was quite a show of acceptance of her heritage. See also the significance of the Sussex title. I just can't marry up the before the wedding and wedding to the accusations post wedding. 

I remember that interview...Harry said his family was like the family “Meghan never had” and she was therefore excited to spend Christmas with them. 
Then that comment set off Samantha Markle and she made lots of comments about how close their family had been when Meghan was little.

From the outside looking in, it seemed like the RF really embraced Meghan. And whether or not it was true, I thought William asking Harry if he was rushing things was a normal, caring brother thing to do. Most people who have a good relationship with someone would ask the same question and then let it rest. Harry (presumably) taking offense to the question would be the thing that raised a red flag to me.

43 minutes ago, Lollipopgirl said:

I’m sorry but this feels a bit odd to me. Lilibet is a very personal nickname for the queen. I’m glad both mother and baby are doing well and any baby is a celebration but I’m really not sure about the name.

 

 

 

Since Lili Sussex will never meet Grandma Diana or have time to develop a relationship with Grandma Elizabeth, it makes sense to name her after them because she’ll have of plenty to get to know grandma Doria. I think Harry is trying to prove it’s not Grandma he’s mad at.

Also...I had guessed that if Meghan went with a classic royal name she would want to be able to “Americanize” it for her life in the states. I’d felt Alexandra/Allie/Lexi would fit the bill, but they did something similar with the Lilibet/Lili. A nod to her royal heritage, but will blend in with all the other Lily’s she’ll be in class with at school.

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by DalmatianCat
Typo

[SoSoNosy]

With all the unease within the family, I see the Lilibet name as a total fail.  In my opinion, it's far too intimate and completely personal to the Queen; all the other names have been used down through the generations, but that was her name.  Not that anybody cares how I feel, but I'm still putting it out there.

[Lollipopgirl]

But they haven’t named her after Grandma Elizabeth. If that was the case they would have called her Elizabeth. They have chosen a very personal family nickname. Just seems odd to me.

[viii]

It seems odd to me as well but I would hope that they would have asked the Queen her opinion on it and wouldn’t have gone ahead without her blessing. Maybe they asked ten minutes before announcing it ?

[EmCatlyn]

11 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Is he? I thought we only know for sure about the three aids and Louise and the ponies? I have seen nothing official but only “insiders” speculating about the rest.
I mean I can totally see him giving away sentimental things to people. Like a watch or painting. But I highly doubt there will be another £££ cash flow. If cash it will be more £. Obviously that would still be enough for normal people.
If your assumption about their financial status is true, they shouldn’t run around whining that Daddy stopped giving them money. 

The only “official” thing I have seen is that what the grandchildren would inherit was decided “long ago.”  This was in the context of some question about what Harry would inherit.  The suggestion seemed to be that the grandchildren would each get some set amount.   I agree that it probably will not be a great cash flow.  I was just addressing the point that all poor Harry has is what his mother left.  The main speculation is that for tax reasons, most of Phillip’s estate will transfer to the queen.  

An interesting question about any inheritance Harry may get from anyone at any point is taxes.  I don’t know how it works with British inheritance (estate) tax when the recipient is not living in Britain.  I do know that if he is a permanent resident of the US, he has to pay US income tax for any income, but would an inheritance count in this context.

As for how much money Harry had when he moved to the US,  there are different accounts, but it seems to come to around 20 or 30 million dollars. ??‍♀️    And he has been adding to that with his deals. So, as I said, I am not worried they can’t keep up the lifestyle they have chosen.

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by EmCatlyn
Clarify about estate tax.

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, Lollipopgirl said:

I’m sorry but this feels a bit odd to me. Lilibet is a very personal nickname for the queen. I’m glad both mother and baby are doing well and any baby is a celebration but I’m really not sure about the name.

I wonder how the queen feels about it.  I know that if one of my kids used my private family nickname as the name of their baby, I would think it was weird.

Especially with a name like Elizabeth, they could have picked another version and still honored Elizabeth. (Eliza, Beth, Betty, Betsy, Liza, Liz, Lizzie, Ella, Lisa, Bess, Elspeth, Ellie, Elsa…)  But that’s the family’s business.  ??‍♀️

 

[SoSoNosy]

There is no income tax on inheritance.  If the estate is very large, there is an estate tax but the estate pays that before any money is distributed.

 

[Xanariel]

Harry definitely took offence to what William said about waiting. In all fairness, none of us were in the room with them, so maybe his tone or expression conveyed something insulting. But truth be told, a) William clearly practiced what he preached there and b) it sounds like a lot of Meghan's problems would have been foreseeable if she'd lived in the UK a little longer as a royal GF rather than jumping headfirst into marriage and the BRF. 

As for the name...it's a sweet gesture, though I'm not sure about Lilibet as an actual name. I think it kind of showcases the awkwardness of Harry not making a complete, clean break. 

On one hand, your grandmother heads the institution you say belittled and betrayed you, and is apparently a source of generational pain inflicted on yourself and your father...but also someone you name your only daughter after? 

[postscript]

First of all, congratulations to the Sussexes. I'm not a big fan of nicknames as actual names, for whatever reason. I would have named the baby Elizabeth or Lily and just called her Lily, but not my call. I like the nod to Diana. 

Second, about finances.  I suspect Harry has very little sense of financial value. He's always had everything he wanted without having to worry about where the money comes from.  Meaghan, on the other hand, has had financial ups and downs, so any complaints about money are likely coming from her. The complaints are also a bit clueless, considering their current lifestyle. They are easily set for life, just not on the limitless scale Harry is accustomed to.  

Third, the media posturing feels like Diana's situation all over again. I think Meaghan was naive about marrying into the royal family and Harry wasn't sensitive enough to enlighten her.  She probably thought she could continue with her charity platforms and enjoy a luxurious life with only an occasional royal engagement.  I doubt she fully understood all the restrictions, the deep-seated conservatism of the BRF, and the relentlessness of the tabloids. The BRF just assumed she would adapt but didn't provide the tools for doing so. Harry is used to it and didn't realize how difficult things would be for Meaghan until her mental health deteriorated.   

[EmCatlyn]

42 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

I remember that interview...Harry said his family was like the family “Meghan never had” and she was therefore excited to spend Christmas with them. 
Then that comment set off Samantha Markle and she made lots of comments about how close their family had been when Meghan was little.

From the outside looking in, it seemed like the RF really embraced Meghan. And whether or not it was true, I thought William asking Harry if he was rushing things was a normal, caring brother thing to do. Most people who have a good relationship with someone would ask the same question and then let it rest. Harry (presumably) taking offense to the question would be the thing that raised a red flag to me.

Yeah, initially the Sussex narrative was that the royals were the big happy family Meghan never had, and Prince Charles was seen as stepping in for her rather unreliable dad. (Her dad, by the way, did have a heart attack and I thought it was weird Meghan kind of wrapped that up with his foolish behavior with the tabloids.  There may have been more going on, but it did seem she could have acted more … concerned?)

The shift in the narrative to the “cold royal family that drove Meghan to near suicide” bothers me.  I certainly believe she was stressed and anxious and depressed especially during her pregnancy.  But it is possible she exaggerated and/or overdramatized her feelings in recounting them to Oprah and the world.  

As for William suggesting Harry might be going too fast, I completely agree.  That is what a friend or family member that cares would say.  Even if Harry thought William should mind his own business (as we do when we get well-meant but unwanted advice) it would not seem a reason to get angry.  Besides, just looking at how William did his own courting would tell anyone that William’s advice reflected his own style, not a criticism of Meghan. 

18 minutes ago, SoSoNosy said:

There is no income tax on inheritance.  If the estate is very large, there is an estate tax but the estate pays that before any money is distributed.

 

There is no income tax on inheritance but there is income tax on income from inheritance.  I am not clear if when you inherit in one place (where the estate pays the tax) counts as inheritance or income when you reside in another place.  I know that earnings can be taxed both by where you earn them and where you live.

[JDuggs]

I like the name. It’s an homage to Harry’s grandmother, not an homage to the Queen. It’s blatantly distinguishing between those two roles. I bet they will call her Lilibet often in private because it’s really cute.

[DalmatianCat]

I also wonder if they went with Lilibet instead of Elizabeth to avoid using the exact same names in the same order as Princess Charlotte. Even though Elizabeth and Diana are only Charlotte’s middle names they must have wanted their daughter’s name to be more unique and to sound different than her cousin’s.

And for all we know QE could have said, “please stop naming your children after me. Why doesn’t anyone use Lilibet?”

Edited June 6, 2021 by DalmatianCat

[adidas]

Congrats to them.

I think I listed Lilibet as a prediction before I remembered about the ‘To MM love MM’ watch thing ... but that was well before the whole ‘my family sucks and they’re so cruel and they’ve forced me to escape to another country’ thing. After that, I never thought they’d use it. H&M: living up to the cringe.

Apparently they’re calling her Lili. The Cambridges have posted on Insta, which is nice. The meany pants in me is pleased that no titles were used in the message ?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPyihcjFcLn/?utm_medium=copy_link

Interesting that they’ve gone with Lilibet Diana, when Charlotte’s middle names are Elizabeth Diana.

I have so many thoughts, most of them somewhat like ‘really?! Why??!!’

Overall though, nobody can deny that this little girl will be very much loved and treasured. I’m sincerely happy for them, just really gobsmacked that they used Lilibet.

1 minute ago, DalmatianCat said:

I also wonder if they went with Lilibet instead of Elizabeth to avoid using the exact same names in the same order as Princess Charlotte. Even though Elizabeth and Diana are only Charlotte’s middle names they must have wanted their daughter’s name to be more unique and to sound different than her cousin’s.

Great minds think alike haha - we posted about Charlotte’s middle names at the same time! 

[Beermeet]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

I wonder how the queen feels about it.  I know that if one of my kids used my private family nickname as the name of their baby, I would think it was weird.

Especially with a name like Elizabeth, they could have picked another version and still honored Elizabeth. (Eliza, Beth, Betty, Betsy, Liza, Liz, Lizzie, Ella, Lisa, Bess, Elspeth, Ellie, Elsa…)  But that’s the family’s business.  ??‍♀️

 

I don't like what they did.  That's a nickname between husband and wife and PP just passed and TQ no longer hears him call her that.  It seems like mockery, cruelty.  I really hope TQ isn't deeply upset about this.  There is no way she knew or was asked.  Meg and H do not hop on zoom or pick up the phone for them like they want us to believe.   I mean, c'mon, we all know that's now TQ operates; we are to believe they are the only two humans alive to just call HM and get through whenever?  While publicly trashing her family!  No.   

[adidas]

I just saw this on Instagram and I thought it was cute that Kate and William’s official account liked it.

Now, I know that it’s unlikely that Kate and William are actually on Instagram liking their family’s posts and it’s probably some junior social media employee, but the thought of the Royal family being like everyone else in the world and liking each other’s posts about a new baby in the family is just sweet. It is exciting to have a new family member no matter who you are.

[ADoyle90815]

I happen to like the name, as Lilibet was the Queen's childhood nickname, so it's older than her marriage to Philip. After all, William's children and grandchildren are ahead of Harry and his children in the line of succession, so even if she's made a Princess in the future by Charles or William, she's not likely to become Queen herself.