Meghan and Harry 6: Everything about this Is Kind of Cringe

[anjulibai]

I like it, I think it's sweet. 

[viii]

30 minutes ago, adidas said:

Interesting that they’ve gone with Lilibet Diana, when Charlotte’s middle names are Elizabeth Diana.

I think it’s common for family names to be repeated, especially if it’s a prominent family member or a beloved deceased one. 

16 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

I don't like what they did.  That's a nickname between husband and wife and PP just passed and TQ no longer hears him call her that.  It seems like mockery, cruelty.  I really hope TQ isn't deeply upset about this.    

It’s her childhood name, it has nothing to do with Prince Philip. She was called that before she ever knew who he was. 

[anjulibai]

Lilibet was what George V called after she couldn't pronounce her own named correctly. It stuck, and everyone in the family and many family friends called her that. 

[Beermeet]

I'm looking around and it doesn't seem widespread,  Lilibet.  As TQ, only so many people call her by her nickname.  Grandparents,  parents,  husband.  Not her children or grandchildren because it's rude to call an elder by name or nickname.  So, no, not just PP ( who also used Cabbage) but still inappropriate, imo.  

https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/2018081361136/royal-family-queen-elizabeth-first-name/

Edited June 6, 2021 by Beermeet

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I know they’re not using their titles, but “Lady Lili” sounds like a stripper, right? 

[bird]

3 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

I remember that interview...Harry said his family was like the family “Meghan never had” and she was therefore excited to spend Christmas with them. 
Then that comment set off Samantha Markle and she made lots of comments about how close their family had been when Meghan was little.

From the outside looking in, it seemed like the RF really embraced Meghan. And whether or not it was true, I thought William asking Harry if he was rushing things was a normal, caring brother thing to do. Most people who have a good relationship with someone would ask the same question and then let it rest. Harry (presumably) taking offense to the question would be the thing that raised a red flag to me.

Since Lili Sussex will never meet Grandma Diana or have time to develop a relationship with Grandma Elizabeth, it makes sense to name her after them because she’ll have of plenty to get to know grandma Doria. I think Harry is trying to prove it’s not Grandma he’s mad at.

Also...I had guessed that if Meghan went with a classic royal name she would want to be able to “Americanize” it for her life in the states. I’d felt Alexandra/Allie/Lexi would fit the bill, but they did something similar with the Lilibet/Lili. A nod to her royal heritage, but will blend in with all the other Lily’s she’ll be in class with at school.

 

That's it!! The family she never had. I find that so sad. He thought they would be one big happy family and instead he's alienated all of them and now has as many people around him as she does. 

[postscript]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Yeah, initially the Sussex narrative was that the royals were the big happy family Meghan never had, and Prince Charles was seen as stepping in for her rather unreliable dad. (Her dad, by the way, did have a heart attack and I thought it was weird Meghan kind of wrapped that up with his foolish behavior with the tabloids.  There may have been more going on, but it did seem she could have acted more … concerned?)

The shift in the narrative to the “cold royal family that drove Meghan to near suicide” bothers me.  I certainly believe she was stressed and anxious and depressed especially during her pregnancy.  But it is possible she exaggerated and/or overdramatized her feelings in recounting them to Oprah and the world.  

As for William suggesting Harry might be going too fast, I completely agree.  That is what a friend or family member that cares would say.  Even if Harry thought William should mind his own business (as we do when we get well-meant but unwanted advice) it would not seem a reason to get angry.  Besides, just looking at how William did his own courting would tell anyone that William’s advice reflected his own style, not a criticism of Meghan. 

There is no income tax on inheritance but there is income tax on income from inheritance.  I am not clear if when you inherit in one place (where the estate pays the tax) counts as inheritance or income when you reside in another place.  I know that earnings can be taxed both by where you earn them and where you live.

Meaghan’s saga feels like a repeat of the Sarah Ferguson arc, in which Fergie was warmly welcomed by the family at first. There were lots of pictures of her sitting next to the Queen and flattering stories about how much everyone loved her and how she was a breath of fresh air. Until she began to act up and the stories began to talk about her disruptive influence. Diana went through a similar arc, but it played out differently given the different personalities involved and Diana’s manipulation of the media. 

I don’t doubt the truth lies somewhere between M&H’s “poor us” story and the BRF’s “she couldn’t handle it” take. Both sides are dramatizing the story to their own advantage. Neither party is blameless. 

I’m not a particular fan of M&H (I’m close to Diana in age and was much more invested in her story), but I do think Meaghan has done a lot to settle Harry down. I also think they’re better off away from the royal fishbowl. It’s sad that it seems to come at the cost of William’s and Harry’s relationship. 

[Beermeet]

So, Philip was the last person to call her that.  It's not cool.  Not even a little.  

 

[just_ordinary]

I find it most hilarious how all their die hard fans try to come to terms with that choice, after they have slagged off the petty evil racist Queen. You know the imperial/colonial embodiment of white privileged that denied their mixed race grandchildren a title. 
I was very surprised that BPs official message was so short and had a bigger emphasis on showcasing the important players instead of the Queen and her well wishes. They made a point in naming The Queen, Charles, Camilla, Wiliam and Kate and let’s then appear as one entity instead of focusing on HMTQ and only putting “and family” in somewhere. The Wessexes , York’s and Anne’s family have been left out- so I guess highlighting the direct line is definitely the new project.

[viii]

@Beermeet you’re getting riled up over speculation. For all we know, they mentioned it to the queen and she was thrilled. We literally have zero idea. 

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, Beermeet said:

I don't like what they did.  That's a nickname between husband and wife and PP just passed and TQ no longer hears him call her that.  It seems like mockery, cruelty.  I really hope TQ isn't deeply upset about this.  There is no way she knew or was asked.  Meg and H do not hop on zoom or pick up the phone for them like they want us to believe.   I mean, c'mon, we all know that's now TQ operates; we are to believe they are the only two humans alive to just call HM and get through whenever?  While publicly trashing her family!  No.   

It was not Prince Phillip’s special name for her.  It was her childhood nickname.  Her grandparents, her uncle David, her parents, her sister all called her that before Phillip even met her.  He was just the only one who was still calling her that when he died, because he outlived the others (including Margaret, which must have been really sad).   I believe that Phillip’s special name for her (one she would not have used to refer to herself) was “Cabbage.”  (Probably a derivative of the French ma petite chou or a similar endearment in another language.)

Even though I agree that it is unlikely they call the queen regularly to chat, I do hope they asked the queen if it was okay with her — otherwise what should be a compliment may turn out to be an annoyance.   I personally would not like it (I have a silly childhood nickname also).  But maybe, as someone upthread suggested, the queen herself said, “Enough of naming girls Elizabeth, why doesn’t anyone use Lilibet instead?” ?   We can’t know.

The kid will probably be Lili, and that’s that.  

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, postscript said:

I don’t doubt the truth lies somewhere between M&H’s “poor us” story and the BRF’s “she couldn’t handle it” take. Both sides are dramatizing the story to their own advantage. Neither party is blameless. 

Yes, that is my take also.  Where I am not sure I agree is that Harry is better off away from the world he grew up in.  We cannot know what is best for other people, but I think Harry is always going to feel like an outsider, no matter how long he lives in the celebrity world.  I think it would have been better if he had found a modern-day Sophie Wessex — secure enough in her own life to make adjustments and support him in whatever he wanted to do as “the spare.”  Instead, Meghan seems to want a lot of attention and to stir up competition. 

[SassyPants]

10 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

It was not Prince Phillip’s special name for her.  It was her childhood nickname.  Her grandparents, her uncle David, her parents, her sister all called her that before Phillip even met her.  He was just the only one who was still calling her that when he died, because he outlived the others (including Margaret, which must have been really sad).   I believe that Phillip’s special name for her (one she would not have used to refer to herself) was “Cabbage.”  (Probably a derivative of the French ma petite chou or a similar endearment in another language.)

Even though I agree that it is unlikely they call the queen regularly to chat, I do hope they asked the queen if it was okay with her — otherwise what should be a compliment may turn out to be an annoyance.   I personally would not like it (I have a silly childhood nickname also).  But maybe, as someone upthread suggested, the queen herself said, “Enough of naming girls Elizabeth, why doesn’t anyone use Lilibet instead?” ?   We can’t know.

The kid will probably be Lili, and that’s that.  

I’ve already seen them refer(actually written words) to her as Lili. I think it’s an OK name. It’s nice that both boys gave their mother the nod in their daughters’ middle names.

[Beermeet]

38 minutes ago, viii said:

@Beermeet you’re getting riled up over speculation. For all we know, they mentioned it to the queen and she was thrilled. We literally have zero idea. 

Riled up ?

I find their hypocrisy much more worthy of getting riled up about since they are here bitching about over there, making serious accusations, Harry making stupid comments about our 1st ammendment, constantly complaining about his horrible racist family who is so horrible, Meghan apparently wanted to die.  Then they name their daughter Lilibet, which seems completely out of left field and rude.  

It's pretty funny actually!  Just watching them dig deeper holes for themselves.  Messy, messy, messy.  I'm here for the free entertainment  ?

[Jackie3]

4 hours ago, Beermeet said:

constantly complaining about his horrible racist family who is so horrible,

I don't see them constantly complaining. 

By the way, Lilibet wasn't her husband's pet name for her. Where did you read that? An act of cruelty against the Queen? That's pure fabrication on your part.  If you do a bit of research you'll see that Lilibet was a nickname from childhood.

It's fine if you don't like Meaghan and Harry, but don't invent things. You lose credibility that way.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Jackie3

[EmCatlyn]

34 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

I don't see them constantly complaining. 

By the way, Lilibet wasn't her husband's pet name for her. Where did you read that? An act of cruelty against the Queen? That's pure fabrication on your part.  If you do a bit of research you'll see that Lilibet was a nickname from childhood.

It's fine if you don't like Meaghan and Harry, but don't invent things. You lose credibility that way.

When Prince Phillip died, the press made a lot of the fact that the Queen signed a farewell note to him “Lillibet” and that now that he was gone there would be no one else calling her by this nickname.  This has led a lot of people to think that this was a “special name” the Duke of Edinburgh used for her.

It’s an understandable confusion. 

[Lollipopgirl]

1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

I don't see them constantly complaining. 

 

Actually I have to disagree. They have complained quite a lot. Firstly in an ITV British documentary before all of this kicked off, then during the Oprah interview and Harry pretty much outright criticized his upbringing on a podcast recently. I do wonder if the queen’s cousins still use the name Lilibet for her. If it was her childhood nickname and her parents and sister used it as well as her Grandparents etc then I suspect some of her still living cousins do the same. I hope they asked her first, who knows. It’s certainly raised a few eyebrows over here let’s put it that way.

[tabitha2]

Spoiler

 

It’s an odd and contrary and controversial name choice designed to get a reaction but then Harry and Meghan are odd and contrary people so whatever. Long as she is healthy that’s what matters. 

She will be Lili to most people anyway. 
 

 

 

[Topaz]

In the programme “My Years with the Queen” that aired recently, Lady Pamela Hicks referred to QE2 by the nickname Lilibet. It wasn’t clear to me if that was something she still used or if it was just from when they were younger.

[LittleOwl]

Spotted this paper whilst waiting to collect something in Sainsburys.. 

 

Spoiler

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by LittleOwl
Putting into spoiler

[viii]

7 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

When Prince Phillip died, the press made a lot of the fact that the Queen signed a farewell note to him “Lillibet” and that now that he was gone there would be no one else calling her by this nickname.  This has led a lot of people to think that this was a “special name” the Duke of Edinburgh used for her.

It’s an understandable confusion. 

Was it ever confirmed the card said Lilibet? I thought it was signed Elizabeth. 

[Xanariel]

Lilibet was not a Philip-exclusive name - it was used by her grandparents, parents and peers growing up. However, he certainly was one of the last few to call her by it - her children and grandchildren were never noted to use it as a nickname for her. Her cousins and close ladies-in-waiting may do, but it's a very small crowd. 

I think it comes across as a little bit cringey, and would do even if they were still within the BRF. It's not as if they called her Lizzie or Eliza, which are both common shortenings - Lilibet is very particular to the Queen. If the Cambridges had named Charlotte that, it would have come across as kissy-up in a way that plain Elizabeth as a middle name didn't. 

Maaaybe the York girls could have pulled it off, but only because of their notably close relationship with her and tbh because "a little bit cringey" has basically been Fergie's lifelong vibe. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

19 hours ago, postscript said:

First of all, congratulations to the Sussexes. I'm not a big fan of nicknames as actual names, for whatever reason. I would have named the baby Elizabeth or Lily and just called her Lily, but not my call. I like the nod to Diana. 

I agree.  Just as a general rule I prefer giving a baby the more formal name and using the nickname you like so they have options.  I'd have gone with Elizabeth and called her Lilibet if that's what they wanted.  I named my daughter after my mom (and my ex's grandmother) but from the start used a nickname that's unheard of for her first name (which has a million nickname variants) and it only makes sense if you know her middle name and are familiar with Irish name variants, but she's never had any trouble aside from people saying they've never heard of X as a nickname for Y.  As an answer she always just tells them her mom is weird.

I absolutely love the nod to Diana.  I expected it and I'm glad they did that.  For all of her problems she loved her boys and it's heartbreaking her grandchildren will never know her.

 

17 hours ago, viii said:

I think it’s common for family names to be repeated, especially if it’s a prominent family member or a beloved deceased one. 

One look at my family tree will tell you this is the case.  If I could go back in time I'd bring a stack of baby name books for them all so they can stop using the same 10 names for centuries.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

15 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I find it most hilarious how all their die hard fans try to come to terms with that choice, after they have slagged off the petty evil racist Queen. You know the imperial/colonial embodiment of white privileged that denied their mixed race grandchildren a title. 

I think most people understand you can have issues with your family, even very serious ones, and still love them deeply.  People are multi-faceted and family dynamics complex.  And I only read here but I never heard anything from either of them that would lead me to believe they see the Queen as an evil overlord.  

[viii]

Not to mention, Harry has been pretty distinct in separating the Queen and his grandma.