Counting On Season 11: How Low Can They Go?

[Mama Mia]

7 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

My leaning is that JB downplayed it to Pa Keller, using vague "Duggarspeak" that in his mind was full disclosure but by any other measure it wasn't.   But even if Pa Keller fully understood the truth, I still think Anna, being as sheltered as she was, would not have any idea, any reference point for what it all meant.  That's assuming she was told.   The exchange between the daddies, such as it was, might have counted as sufficient.  

I posted earlier about the possibility of Anna going back to Florida.  I don't think that's likely, agree that she would probably stay in AR where she's close to Josh, however I can see her moving if JB breaks the bank trying to defend Josh and has no money left to endlessly support his kids, their families, including Anna.    With no more TLC money coming in for him and facing (presumably) massive bills defending his errant first-born, JB may face the real possibility of running out and may have to make hard choices. 

 

If anything, if for some reason the warehouse/house wasn’t workable they could just move them all into the big house like last time. It’s a lot less crowded now.
 My completely speculative opinion is that Anna will stick around either because she still believes there is hope for her husband, or because it provides the best semblance of stability for her kids, or because she doesn’t have other appealing viable options, or she’s stuck in paralyzing depression —  Or some combination of those reasons. She may take the kids more frequently to visit her family, but the Duggar’s are who the kids are close to and her support system. Possibly she’d move to be closer to Josh, but I kind of doubt it. 

[CaptainFunderpants]

14 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I think it was all about asset protection. I think all of the initial homes the G2Duggars have or do own were provided or financed by JB. He gives and he takes away. Since Josh has not played by JB’s rules and has cost JB additional monies, JB as taken away everything, before others (both people or entities)do. This is more about money and control protection than Josh-

And as such, I still don't understand why Ben and Jessa are in such a crappy house. They've completely played by the rules as far as we know -forgave Josh completely, great social media presence, Ben is a pastor, blessings arriving on the regular- and their house at this point is acutely too small for them.

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

And as such, I still don't understand why Ben and Jessa are in such a crappy house. They've completely played by the rules as far as we know -forgave Josh completely, great social media presence, Ben is a pastor, blessings arriving on the regular- and their house at this point is acutely too small for them.

Michelle and JB lived in a small 3 bedroom house with 14 children. They may think Jessa's house is enough for a "little" family.

[ToriAmos]

Even if he’s proven guilty, Anna and her parents believe in repentance and forgiveness. The devil caused him to stray, but with Christ’s love and the family’s support he can recommit himself to God. 
unpopular opinion, but I think Pa Keller is a truly ‘Christian’ kind of believer - he believes in redemption. Which is honestly a beautiful thing, and I’m sure it has turned many lives around to have one person who believes in you.

just don’t think the horrific stuff Josh has been charged with works that way. I don’t want to condemn all pedophiles because I don’t know enough about the disease model or anything, but Josh seems beyond rehabilitation.

[CarrotCake]

It would not surprise me if many, if not all, of the Duggar kids will get closer to their inlaws then their own family over time.

We already see Jill, Josiah and Justin being more focused on them and I think Joy, Joe and Jinger are also likely to follow that path. JD and Jed I'm not sure about but if they will make the same 'move' that will only leave Anna and Jessa close to JB and Michelle.

[allyisyourpally5]

How many are left in the Big House?
Jb and Michelle

Jana and the 4 young girls

Jackson, Jason, James? Jeremiah?

I think in all honesty it is purely down to money and JBs control and greed. The man has deep pockets and short arms. I’m sure the “good” children are promised better homes for the future but they need to demonstrate they can keep in line first. Plus we now know the kids weren't paid for their time on TV, it was JB. JB said in the early specials he hoped one day all the kids would build their family homes on the Duggar plot and that hasn’t happened.

I also don’t think JB was completely immune to the fact that his empire could crumble at any second based on their secrets so has kept the money close and is harsh with how much he gives out. I wouldn’t be surprised if he also secretly fears future lawsuits from rebel children who want their share so is again, keeping it close and just providing what he needs to, not “extra”.

I wonder how many Duggar’s will go to court (if allowed by then) or to sentencing if convicted? I can picture Michelle crying. I think mom and dad will be in denial. Or at least just playing it down “it’s not that bad really” “he’s not the only person who’s made a mistake”.

 

[Bobology]

10 hours ago, Smee said:

Let’s be real, Josh is doing very little to support Anna raising 7 kids anyway. He’s a sperm donor, an extra mouth to feed, and a connection to JB’s wallet. At this point Mackynzie likely does more parenting than he does. Anna will be no worse off with him in prison than she is now.

Yes. This is what makes what we suppose as Anna's/kids' current and future visits with him so ridiculous and futile. The rest of us would only be thinking of the kids... allowing the kids to know their father over his imprisoned years... but Anna is probably thinking of only Josh and how to please him. I think it would please Josh just fine if he was many states away and not encumbered by Anna and the kids, as long as he is sent money and comfort items or whatever is allowed in federal prison. I doubt Josh is emotionally attached to any person, and as long as I'm making up stuff I'll go further to say I believe he has contempt for Anna, disdain for his children, hate for his parents and nothing else at all for anyone else.

[SassyPants]

19 minutes ago, Bobology said:

Yes. This is what makes what we suppose as Anna's/kids' current and future visits with him so ridiculous and futile. The rest of us would only be thinking of the kids... allowing the kids to know their father over his imprisoned years... but Anna is probably thinking of only Josh and how to please him. I think it would please Josh just fine if he was many states away and not encumbered by Anna and the kids, as long as he is sent money and comfort items or whatever is allowed in federal prison. I doubt Josh is emotionally attached to any person, and as long as I'm making up stuff I'll go further to say I believe he has contempt for Anna, disdain for his children, hate for his parents and nothing else at all for anyone else.

As I recently posted on another thread, Josh is 1 of the Duggars who JB’s methods both failed and backfired. He became entitled. Josh chose being criminal to standing up to his father and WORKING HARD to live the life that he wanted to live! What a damn waste for so many concerned, especially 7 kids.

[WiseGirl]

9 minutes ago, Bobology said:

I'll go further to say I believe he has contempt for Anna, disdain for his children, hate for his parents and nothing else at all for anyone else.

I'll board the speculation bus with you on this. He thinks of himself and only himself and is a sick, twisted, depraved man to boot.

Side note WiseChild had an acquaintance get incarcerated for pedophilia.  Took a plea, minimum of 10 years in prison (might be 15, I may have years wrong). Had to be transferred to a low security prison for their own safety. Federal prison is not in the state their family resides in. My child was completely flabbergasted that mutual friends would stick up for incarcerated "friend." Child did a lot of educating on why prisoner is not a nice person. It was kind of a surreal eye-opening experience for both of us.

Regarding minor visits, from prison pro (.com) "Minors are never allowed to go alone to visitation, and must always be accompanied by a parent or guardian.  Also, some inmates cannot have any minors visit if they are incarcerated for a crime against a child."

So it could happen that M's may not be allowed to visit.

[Mama Mia]

9 hours ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

And as such, I still don't understand why Ben and Jessa are in such a crappy house. They've completely played by the rules as far as we know -forgave Josh completely, great social media presence, Ben is a pastor, blessings arriving on the regular- and their house at this point is acutely too small for them.

If you look at how Jessa has arranged the house, and watch some of her videos, I really think they are ok with the small house for now. They seem to be a puppy-pile kind of family. 

In the parents room the bed is low to the ground, in the kids room there’s the twin over full bunk she just built and a toddler bed.  The bottom bunk is where Ivy kept going to put her dolls in her birthday video. Ben’s office is set up in there too. The living room is very kid friendly with lots of toys.

My guess is Spurgeon sleeps in the top bunk, and that’s his space if he wants to get away from his siblings. Ivy and /or Henry probably start out in the kids room and end up most nights with mom and dad. As the baby comes closer they probably are trying to get at least one of them to be in the kid room more, and mom or dad likely ends up falling asleep in the bottom bunk sometimes too. When the baby comes they’ll have the crib for corralling the baby during the day sometimes, and to shut up parenting scolds, but mostly co-sleep. 

I think for now they like that they can pretty much see or hear the kids anywhere in the house without having to chase them over a big space. Down the road I’m sure they’ll either move or add another bedroom and bathroom, or two, but I could see them being ok as is for another couple years. 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Mama Mia

[NotQuiteMotY]

12 hours ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Very true, I just wonder if she will send the kids out to relatives from time to time as she may not be able to support seven kids and have them take some of the pressure off her shoulders. Living in a warehouse with seven kids on your in-laws property whom you are currently (admittedly reported) to be feuding while struggling to make ends meet because you can't find a reasonable paying job to feed and cloth them while you are drowning in legal fees due to your pedophile husbands actions and possible lawsuit from said husbands victims while said husband is spending time in prison and unable to hold a job before and after may not be the best environment for the kids.

I don't know if she would, though. Would she want to let the younger kids go? And while the oldest girl is probably old enough to send out to help her SILs with kids to relieve food-cost pressure, she's also old enough for Anna to want to keep her as a sistermom. And if JB's still footing the bill for food and housing like we suspect, she'll probably not have to work. Even if she does, if it's just part-time, it's entirely possible for her to just send the kids over to be part of the herd at the family house whenever she has to.

[livinginthelight]

1 hour ago, WiseGirl said:

Side note WiseChild had an acquaintance get incarcerated for pedophilia.  Took a plea, minimum of 10 years in prison (might be 15, I may have years wrong). Had to be transferred to a low security prison for their own safety. Federal prison is not in the state their family resides in. My child was completely flabbergasted that mutual friends would stick up for incarcerated "friend." Child did a lot of educating on why prisoner is not a nice person. It was kind of a surreal eye-opening experience for both of us.

 

An elder in my church was tried and convicted for child molestation many years ago, winding up in jail. A few people in the congregation went to the trial, determined to show their support for this godly man who couldn't possibly have done anything. All they'd had to go on, up until that point, was his word and a basic summary of the charges. When they heard the actual details, they were aghast and sickened enough to go to therapy. No more denial.

I'm not surprised Anna (and probably others) in the family are sticking up for Josh. They have strong motivation to do so - (e.g. "I wouldn't be such a bad judge of character to be taken in so completely by a monster") - and they likely haven't heard the specific evidence. It will be interesting to see what happens after the details are aired.

[Mama Mia]

50 minutes ago, livinginthelight said:

An elder in my church was tried and convicted for child molestation many years ago, winding up in jail. A few people in the congregation went to the trial, determined to show their support for this godly man who couldn't possibly have done anything. All they'd had to go on, up until that point, was his word and a basic summary of the charges. When they heard the actual details, they were aghast and sickened enough to go to therapy. No more denial.

I'm not surprised Anna (and probably others) in the family are sticking up for Josh. They have strong motivation to do so - (e.g. "I wouldn't be such a bad judge of character to be taken in so completely by a monster") - and they likely haven't heard the specific evidence. It will be interesting to see what happens after the details are aired.

Yea, I don’t think you even need religion, or a cult, to want to be in denial about this kind of shit. It just helps give it a structure for blame. 
But except for his mom - because she’s his mom- I think most people will see Josh as someone to be avoided as much as possible. The family might tolerate him at gatherings after he’s done his time, but I doubt even they would trust him alone with their small kids at this point. He might have a redemption / empathy oriented sibling or two who will hang out elsewhere with him- but sure as hell won’t ask him to babysit. 
 Anna - it’s hard to tell. Is she still in denial? Does she think if he gets help, or prays enough, or takes meds or whatever- he’ll be ok? How ok? Obviously they already had controls because she didn’t trust him, or he didn’t trust himself - will other family members try to keep the M  kids from being alone with him, even if she doesn’t? Will they back off and figure it’s up to Anna? 
Question for people familiar with this type of religion - do they think of Satan taking hold and tempting people to do bad things as a one and done type deal, or someone will need to struggle with these same demons forever? Is it more like a AA model, where that same problem will come up forever unless worked on ? Or more like a disease that can be cured and gone? 

[JMO]

Jessa and Ben also "bought" that house a few years ago and own it outright. So it's not just a matter of easily swapping homes.

[HeartsAFundie]

2 hours ago, livinginthelight said:

An elder in my church was tried and convicted for child molestation many years ago, winding up in jail. A few people in the congregation went to the trial, determined to show their support for this godly man who couldn't possibly have done anything. All they'd had to go on, up until that point, was his word and a basic summary of the charges. When they heard the actual details, they were aghast and sickened enough to go to therapy. No more denial.

I'm not surprised Anna (and probably others) in the family are sticking up for Josh. They have strong motivation to do so - (e.g. "I wouldn't be such a bad judge of character to be taken in so completely by a monster") - and they likely haven't heard the specific evidence. It will be interesting to see what happens after the details are aired.

In the early 2000s, a former parish priest of ours was arrested for possession of child pornography years after being transferred out of my parish and into another one (for unrelated reasons).  He apparently took his computer to be repaired. The guys at the computer shop found the images in his computer and promptly and rightfully called the police.  The priest was arrested but was able to not serve time in his local county jail due to safety reasons, but was transferred to another county jail on an island that takes on a resort status in the summer. And he got to choose where in the state to serve his time.   He was defrocked of his priest status and also being an amateur magician was kicked out of the magician's club/union he belonged to.

I had left his former parish years ago but the rest of my family remained.  My dad said that some of the die-hard leg-humping parishioners were totally in denial over the whole thing.  They were not just saying the typical things like "I don't believe it"; they were 100% convinced the priest was secretly working with the police in a sting operation to combat child pornography which is why the images were in his computer;  and that the whole thing was just a silly misunderstanding and would work itself out. Thankfully my family did not buy into any of these delusions.   

Ironically, I found his Facebook account and many of his former parishioners are still friends with him on social media. So I can only assume they are still in denial over everything.        

[Tangy Bee]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

Jessa and Ben also "bought" that house a few years ago and own it outright. So it's not just a matter of easily swapping homes.

Maybe they will do an add on later. With the show gone, it's probably good to not have a mortgage to worry about. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Tangy Bee said:

Maybe they will do an add on later. With the show gone, it's probably good to not have a mortgage to worry about. 

Now they need to work on using  BC. Money is about to get tight.

[Bad Wolf]

The state prison here allows 2 packages a year and they have to come directly from the store. Certain things are not allowed, like comforters, because something could be hidden in the batting. So Anna may not be able to send little goodies to josh, such as a cake with a file, or marijuana brownies (lol). The county jail only allows postcards, no letters. I have no idea what the feds do.

A long time ago, M said that they do not allow little girls to sit on big boys laps. I remember thinking how awful that was. I had 2 big brothers and sat on their laps many times as they read me stories. Later I saw a little girl sitting on a big boy's lap, not Josh, though. I think this waa before any scandal broke.

[Bobology]

40 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

A long time ago, M said that they do not allow little girls to sit on big boys laps.

I remember that... no male laps except for Daddy. In the court paperwork for the reported molestation of sisters I believe it said something about a 5 year old on Josh's lap, while he was reading to her, was abused. Someone with a better memory can correct this.

[mpheels]

I think people are still really underestimating how much more restrictive federal prisons are relative to state prisons. Federal prisoners cannot receive care packages at all. They can get magazines and books mailed directly from the publisher, and their families can send them a set of clothes to wear when they are released from prison. Otherwise anything they get has to be purchased from the prison commissary. Anna will be allowed to send money for commissary purchases, and Josh will get paid a small hourly wage for working in the prison (no more that $1.50, I think, for the highest paying jobs).  https://www.bop.gov/inmates/communications.jsp

[Dandruff]

OT, but I'm wondering what kind of unpleasantness/abominations Josh might have been able to access, in the name of research, while he worked at FRC.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

Maybe they will do an add on later. With the show gone, it's probably good to not have a mortgage to worry about. 

I agree. An addition would be a pretty smart move. They have plenty of yard. I wouldn’t put an addition on my house because it would make our yard tiny. But they have plenty of room for it. I would add a master bedroom, walk in closet and master bathroom. Then the kids could have the other two bedrooms and bathroom for themselves. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

10 hours ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

I don't know if she would, though. Would she want to let the younger kids go? And while the oldest girl is probably old enough to send out to help her SILs with kids to relieve food-cost pressure, she's also old enough for Anna to want to keep her as a sistermom. And if JB's still footing the bill for food and housing like we suspect, she'll probably not have to work. Even if she does, if it's just part-time, it's entirely possible for her to just send the kids over to be part of the herd at the family house whenever she has to.

The older ones I can see her being fine with. Then again, she may keep the older ones around to help care for the younger ones. I thin it is all going to come down to her relationship with her in-laws on what her living situation will be post trial. Josh is facing a federal indictment and there is a good chance that he won't serve part of his sentence in Arkansas. Anna only moved to Arkansas because that is where her headship lived. So, it will all depend. 

21 hours ago, sndral said:

If sentenced to prison, where Josh serves his sentence will be up to the Federal Bureau of Prisons not the Judge https://www.bop.gov/inmates/custody_and_care/designations.jsp, the Judge has some input, but ultimately it’s up to BOP & they’ll base their assignment on their guidelines.

Thanks for that, I really hope he gets sent to prison out of Arkansas. If Anna is really feuding with Jim Bob and Michelle, then Josh would be her only real tie to Arkansas. If he does get sent out of state, then that may give her peace of mind to get out of Arkansas for the time being. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

23 hours ago, Smee said:

Let’s be real, Josh is doing very little to support Anna raising 7 kids anyway. He’s a sperm donor, an extra mouth to feed, and a connection to JB’s wallet. At this point Mackynzie likely does more parenting than he does. Anna will be no worse off with him in prison than she is now.

Josh has never done anything to support Anna other than make her dream of being a good God fearing fundie housewife come true. Lets face it, Anna only ended up with Josh because the Duggar's had reached rock star status in their community with their TV specials and JB being in the Arkansas senate. Her parents probably were too starstruck by the Duggar's and were overjoyed that their eldest son was interested in their daughter to see through their con. Mackynzie is probably doing more parenting now and in the near future than Anna ever will in her life. Chances are Josh is going to spend the rest of her childhood and the majority of her siblings Mason (number five) and younger in prison. I just hope that she doesn't end up like Sarah Maxwell being a depressed and lonely stay at home daughter while watching her young siblings get to live out their lives and only have dog as a consolation prize for not getting married and having children. 

On 7/6/2021 at 9:24 PM, Bad Wolf said:

Even if he's found not guilty, most people will not believe his innocence. Would you let your little ones be around him?

Honestly, probably not. If Josh is found not guilty, then it would take A LOT of convincing for me that he was acquitted due to a technicality. Considering the feds tend to make sure they have everything locked down before making an arrest and the fact that Josh already has a very well known history of sexual deviancy would make me very uncomfortable for me to allow any of my children (if I ever have any) or any child at all near him even if I am with them. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by NancyDrewFan1989
changes

[Not that josh's mom]

I remember seeing pictures of at least two of Anna's older children visiting her sibling (don't remember which one) in the last couple months. Does anyone else remember that?