Gwen Shamblin Lara 15: [29 May 2021] Gwen, Joe & 5 Others Presumed Dead in Plane Crash

[WeirdHarold]

33 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I know nothing about that woman, but I think it says a great deal about her that she thinks Gwen teaching salvation through work is worse than child abuse. Child abuse(didn’t a child die?) and encouraging eating disorders  are way worse than her teachings on salvation and the trinity. 
I didn’t see her post on the RF page but she has it public on her personal page. 

Her theology is the biggest problem to me.  Everyone is different.

[LifelongRFSurvivor]

I'm wandering around the Remnant wedding website looking at pretty dresses. What the heck are they doing having Chuppahs in their weddings though? Do they have fake Jew tendencies I didn't know about? I know very little of their theology other than the 'don't eat or you will be fat and god will hate you'.

Growing up I internalized a fair amount of anti-Semitism because we were taught that our beliefs were more authentic than those of actual Jewish people. ALL of the festivals that they celebrated are from the Jewish tradition and the Old Testament. She even has a version of the Jewish calendar now called the “remnant calendar” for sale in the gift shop. I’ve had a lot of conversations with my Jewish friends about how they actually celebrate Jewish holidays and I’m still learning how messed up the thing we were taught were. I have a menorah in my house that I used all through my childhood and usually when people come to my house it’s the first thing they notice, usually ends up being a complex conversation!

Gwen actually wrote her own Hanukkah songs that we sang every treat..

[Destiny]

5 minutes ago, LifelongRFSurvivor said:

Growing up I internalized a fair amount of anti-Semitism because we were taught that our beliefs were more authentic than those of actual Jewish people. ALL of the festivals that they celebrated are from the Jewish tradition and the Old Testament. She even has a version of the Jewish calendar now called the “remnant calendar” for sale in the gift shop. I’ve had a lot of conversations with my Jewish friends about how they actually celebrate Jewish holidays and I’m still learning how messed up the thing we were taught were. I have a menorah in my house that I used all through my childhood and usually when people come to my house it’s the first thing they notice, usually ends up being a complex conversation!

I had some interaction with some Messianic Jewish people (I am aware that this is a contradiction in terms, but that's what they called themselves) as a child and while I am clearly no expert in Judaism today I do know that much of what I learned from those people is very much not what actual Jews believe. 

Are you aware of any sites or anyplace I could look at to learn more about the actual theology of Remnant separately from the weird diet crap? This religion seems wholly made up and I'd like to learn more about the religious beliefs that the members hold. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Destiny
I keep leaving words out today!

[formergothardite]

3 minutes ago, WeirdHarold said:

Her theology is the biggest problem to me.  Everyone is different.

I really can’t grasp being more concerned over theology than children being abused. Like somehow she would be less awful if she taught faith based theology and the trinity. Child abuse and teaching people to starve is so much worse. So, so much worse. 
 

Shit like showing more concern for theology than abuse is one of the many reasons I’ll never be a Christian again. This attitude is way to rampant in Christian circles. Not all of course, but being disturbed by that mindset help me stay on the path out of Christianity. Thanks for the reminder why abuse is so rampant in churches. It is because theological differences is viewed as more important by too many. 

[MamaJunebug]

@Alisamer, thank you for the clip with audio and flight tracking. Phew. They sure didn’t have long to get their thoughts together, did they? 
 

❤️ G-d be with the children. 

[LifelongRFSurvivor]

I had some interaction with some Messianic Jewish people (I am aware that this is a contradiction in terms, but that's what they called themselves) as a child and while I am clearly no expert in Judaism today I do know that much of what I learned from those people is very much not what actual Jews believe. 
Are you aware of any sites or anyplace I could look at to learn more about the actual theology of Remnant separately from the weird diet crap? This religion seems wholly made up and I'd like to learn more about the religious beliefs that the members hold. 

They keep things very private, but you can watch webcasts if you make a guest account on their site. And every year at Passover they have a very long service that outlines their beliefs entirely. Unfortunately there is no real recording of it.

They used to have a radio station streaming 24/7 but now I believe you have to purchase their TruthStream streaming service in order to listen to their old “teachings”

If you wanted to purchase a class to learn about it, I can recommend the legend to the treasure class because it’s pretty thorough. Another one that covers the basics is “The last Exodus” class for teenagers. ( I’m in that one as a kid LOL)
And they get pretty deep into their beliefs on some of their YouCanOverCome videos on YouTube


Soon I will be hosting a web page with as much of a detailed account of my personal experience as I can, but there will also be a LOT coming out in the documentary next year.

[Cheetah]

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

I am a fan of listening to ATC audio, and have watched a ton of air investigation type stuff - I’m by no means an expert about any of this stuff. But, Joe sounded experienced and professional in that audio and from the looks of the flight path it looks like he might have managed to deliberately get it over water to avoid any risk to people on the ground once it was going down. If so kudos to him. 

There are a million possible things that could have caused the accident and most air crashes seem to be a combination of factors. I’ll be interested to see what the NTSB report says once the investigation is complete. 

I just started watching old episodes of "Mayday - Air Disasters" (mostly on YouTube but season 1 is on one of the streaming services I have... I think it was Amazon Prime).  Yes to what you are saying - so many different reasons for a plane to go down... many of which led in the past to new regulations around maintenance or training.  That show only covers commercial flights.  Would not recommend if thinking about those sorts of events makes you more worried about yourself or a loved one flying but if you aren't sensitive in that way it's an interesting show.  Part real footage, part reconstructed with actors.  

[Destiny]

The whole religion seems like a bizarre hodgepodge of fuckery. I know I read some teachings about the nature of the Trinity that I don't remember clearly but did not line up with traditional Christian teachings on the subject at all. I didn't know about the fake Jew tendencies, but it should have been obvious given that they kept the Sabbath.

I'm not sure I'm curious enough to watch any of their cringe inducing videos though. Thank you for the information @LifelongRFSurvivor!

[Coconut Flan]

47 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

If I had to take a wild guess, I’d suspect some sort of stall based on elevation changes and such. My understanding is the way to get out of an aerodynamic stall is to get the nose down and the speed up to increase lift, and they didn’t have much elevation to work with.

No, one doesn't put the nose down to get out of a stall.  That would merely be a way to hasten the plummet to death.  Some stalls are caused by too steep a climb so reducing the rate of ascent would help there, but never below level flight.  Usually the aim is to get to level flight or mild climb.  

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

24 minutes ago, WeirdHarold said:

Her theology is the biggest problem to me.  Everyone is different.

Yes, everyone is different but if you believe theological belief is a bigger issue than the death of a child you need to do some soul searching, if you have one.

[RFsurvivor]

https://www.remnantfellowship.org/what-we-believe/

 

They have a page on their site that includes a bunch of videos to cover their beliefs. If you scroll far enough down, you start to see some written belief statements.

[Fallgirl30]

19 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I really can’t grasp being more concerned over theology than children being abused. Like somehow she would be less awful if she taught faith based theology and the trinity. Child abuse and teaching people to starve is so much worse. So, so much worse. 
 

Shit like showing more concern for theology than abuse is one of the many reasons I’ll never be a Christian again. This attitude is way to rampant in Christian circles. Not all of course, but being disturbed by that mindset help me stay on the path out of Christianity. Thanks for the reminder why abuse is so rampant in churches. It is because theological differences is viewed as more important by too many. 

Isn’t her theology what led to the child abuse?  That’s how I’m interpreting that statement.

[Tatar-tot]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

Does anyone know how much of Gwen's property was hers specifically and how much was tied to the church for tax reasons?

The divorce settlement detailed this.

[formergothardite]

Wasn’t Gwen CoC and and a lot of her theology comes from that background?

[throwaway9988]

I'd bet my bottom dollar that people inside the church are already saying things like "Gwen mentioned she had a bad feeling about something last month, this must be what God was warning her about" or "Gwen always prayed before every flight because God told her something like this could happen..." or something along those lines.  The ways that the Remnant Fellowship leadership manipulates the members, and the ways that the members lie to themselves, are so predictable.  

 

When I was last a member over ten years ago, Gwen and the leadership had made a statement that, after Gwen, Elizabeth was the closest thing we had to someone else having Gwen's gift of prophecy from God.  I took this to mean that, at that time at least, Elizabeth was the heir-apparent with regards to being Remnant's chief content creator/grifter.  I have very little knowledge of what has happened over the past ten years though.  It will be interesting to see what happens.

Edited May 30, 2021 by throwaway9988

[formergothardite]

7 minutes ago, Fallgirl30 said:

Isn’t her theology what led to the child abuse?  That’s how I’m interpreting that statement.

I’m not sure if not believing in the trinity or believing that salvation is not by faith alone led to a child being locked in a box and beaten to death. That was almost certainly Gwen’s other bullshit teachings on how to raise children. 
 

Her teachings on disordered eating would also be abusive IMO. Change the theology and she still taught abuse.

Edited May 30, 2021 by formergothardite

[RFsurvivor]

3 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

I'd bet my bottom dollar that people inside the church are already saying things like "Gwen mentioned she had a bad feeling about something last month, this must be what God was warning her about" or "Gwen always prayed before every flight because God told her something like this could happen..." or something along those lines.  The ways that the Remnant Fellowship leadership manipulates the members, and the ways that the members lie to themselves, are so predictable.  

I am so worried they are going to use this to paint her as a martyr somehow.  

[Fallgirl30]

1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

I’m not sure if not believing in the trinity or believing that salvation is not by faith alone led to a child being locked in a box and beaten to death. That was almost certainly Gwen’s other bullshit teachings on how to raise children. 

I didn’t know about locking in a box and beating, goodness.  I thought the death might have been  bc of her messed up theology towards food and maybe the child starved.  Going to research this right now.

 

 

[throwaway9988]

11 minutes ago, Fallgirl30 said:

I didn’t know about locking in a box and beating, goodness.  I thought the death might have been  bc of her messed up theology towards food and maybe the child starved.  Going to research this right now.

Joseph and Sonya Smith's murder of their son Josef Smith has been discussed in detail on these forums in some of the much older Gwen Shamblin threads, including links to online documents from the court proceedings and copies of the autopsy report.  Hopefully the search function on this site can help you quickly find it without too many false hits.  The media reports leave out a lot of details.  Gwen was never implicated directly, but she experienced a ton of long-lasting negative publicity because of recordings showing her support of physical discipline for misbehaving and rebellious children, and her teachings that sinful people have demons inside them that need to be conquered. It isn't too big of a leap in logic to see how Remnant members might believe they need to beat their kids based on teachings like these, although Gwen, of course, had to maintain that anyone who beat their kids had misinterpreted what she taught them.  I can say that Gwen's teachings over many years convinced my own mother to beat me a few times when she had never done so before in my entire life, and my mother isn't stupid or prone to simple misinterpretations.

Edited May 30, 2021 by throwaway9988

[Fallgirl30]

2 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

Joseph and Sonya Smith's murder of their son Josef Smith has been discussed in detail in some of the much older Gwen Shamblin threads, including links to online documents from the court proceedings and copies of the autopsy report.  Hopefully the search function on this site can help you quickly find it without too many false hits.  

I found an outside article, thanks it’s awful.  Yeah, it was related to her fucked theology about kids, much like the Pearls.

[onyourwayhome]

11 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

I'd bet my bottom dollar that people inside the church are already saying things like "Gwen mentioned she had a bad feeling about something last month, this must be what God was warning her about" or "Gwen always prayed before every flight because God told her something like this could happen..." or something along those lines.  The ways that the Remnant Fellowship leadership manipulates the members, and the ways that the members lie to themselves, are so predictable.  

 

When I was last a member over ten years ago, Gwen and the leadership had made a statement that, after Gwen, Elizabeth was the closest thing we had to someone else having Gwen's gift of prophecy from God.  I took this to mean that, at that time at least, Elizabeth was the heir-apparent with regards to being Remnant's chief content creator/grifter.  I have very little knowledge of what has happened over the past ten years though.  It will be interesting to see what happens.

I just discovered Gwen and RF last night when I read about the crash. From a very cursory view of a few videos and that statement Elizabeth put out, I absolutely picked up on Elizabeth stepping in to lead. She is visually so similar to her mother and that is telling. Additionally, I saw an interview with her on losing baby weight and she spoke confidently and said her 30 lb weight loss from each pregnancy should all be added up and counted. She also said “who know when I will get to be up here (on stage) again?” Made it sound like she wanted to be up there more often. 

[MamaJunebug]

Aw golly.  David Shamblin posted Merle Haggard’s “Long Black Limousine” on his FB. 

David is the original Mr. Gwen. 
 

❤️ Peace be upon him and his family. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by MamaJunebug

[JermajestyDuggar]

Even though David and Gwen are divorced, I imagine David’s heart is breaking for his kids and grandkids. David is no saint in this whole thing either. He played along with Gwen for years before the divorce. But I’m sure he’s sad for his family right now. 

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, Destiny said:

You’d post them the same way you’d PM them, buy using the attach files link on the posting window. 

Problem is they won’t attach from my phone. I know I’m supposed to have an app to share photos here but I’ve not set one up. Thank you, though! 

[WeirdHarold]

32 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Yes, everyone is different but if you believe theological belief is a bigger issue than the death of a child you need to do some soul searching, if you have one.

Should Gwen be in jail?  If she contributed the child's death, did law enforcement fall down on the job?

 

I haven't researched exactly what happened.