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Gwen Shamblin Lara 15: [29 May 2021] Gwen, Joe & 5 Others Presumed Dead in Plane Crash


Coconut Flan

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13 minutes ago, Howl said:

This is addressed to a specific subset of people, and I rather appreciate @LifelongRFSurvivor for posting it.  Remnant fellowship, often identified here as a cult, is called a HIGH DEMAND/HIGH CONTROL group for a reason.  RF has an authoritarian structure and there are several things that authoritarian groups hate:  losing control, criticism, being vulnerable.  Suddenly all three of those things are in play in this horrible event.   So yes, if appropriate, heed the warning! 

Everybody else, chill out and ex-lax. 

Except it was not phrased that way and I am a moderator and a member who does not want to have anyone feel edited because of the RF members here. I did not mod box it because it was not official and did not rise to the level of the infamous box.

If there is a genuine issue of safety, then that should be brought to our attention privately. There are things we can do to secure a forum or thread and official posts we can make if we determine a threat is realistic. It is not up to any member including myself to tell people to watch what they post because someone just maybe might be watching a thread. 

Edited by nelliebelle1197
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Except it was not phrased that way and I am a moderator and a member who does not want to have anyone feel edited because of the RF members here. I did not mod box it because it was not official and did not rise to the level of the infamous box.
If there is a genuine issue of safety, then that should be brought to our attention privately. There are things we can do to secure a forum or thread and official posts we can make if we determine a threat is realistic. It is not up to any member including myself to tell people to watch what they post because someone just maybe might be watching a thread. 

You continue to misread the situation and the intentions. If it didn’t meet the standards of needing actual moderation, maybe you should take a seat and stop stirring trouble where there is none. You do not speak for us, the actual victims and survivors.

If you genuinely can’t comprehend the fact that we look out for each other and warn each other of red flags and risks, then you shouldn’t be in this space.

Your arrogance is astounding,
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1 minute ago, LifelongRFSurvivor said:


You continue to misread the situation and the intentions. If it didn’t meet the standards of needing actual moderation, maybe you should take a seat and stop stirring trouble where there is none. You do not speak for us, the actual victims and survivors.

You did not break a rule so she spoke to you as a member, which is her right as a member of FJ. The fact that you and others are victims of the cult is unfortunate, but that does not entitle you to any special privileges as a member. 

For the record, I found your post problematic as well. The fact that the fundies are watching does not change who we are, nor will it. If you intended it as a reminder to be safe, then your wording needed work. What you actually wrote came across as policing what people have to say. 

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This is a C/P from a Nashville news site, a couple of minutes ago:

Rutherford County Fire Rescue said the search has transitioned from a rescue effort to a recovery effort

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Just now, SoSoNosy said:

This is a C/P from a Nashville news site, a couple of minutes ago:

Rutherford County Fire Rescue said the search has transitioned from a rescue effort to a recovery effort

I'm not shocked to hear it, but how sad for the family members involved. 

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15 minutes ago, LifelongRFSurvivor said:

You continue to misread the situation and the intentions. If it didn’t meet the standards of needing actual moderation, maybe you should take a seat and stop stirring trouble where there is none. You do not speak for us, the actual victims and survivors.

If you want to argue with the moderators, this thread is not the place for the discussion.  We have a forum for that called Community Discussion.  Continuing to argue with the moderators here is breaking a rule.  

 

Edited by Coconut Flan
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I heard from someone very close to the situation that all 7 are confirmed dead.

Also, the 5:30 wedding actually went on, but very few leaders were there.  My understanding is David Martin was originally planned to officiate it.  Looks like him being offered to instead be flown to Florida must have trumped those plans.

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38 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

This screenshot was posted at least once upthread, but I'll put it here again for everyone. 

  Hide contents

1390419477_Screenshot_20210529-192929_SamsungInternet.jpg.ed582669cba6d0c7b028bb7d9553a2db.jpg

 

I saw this leaked message on the DailyMail of all places and came here to discuss it. Granted, I'm not in the mind of a cult follower or leader, but several parts just ring strangely.

1) Why does she minimize the crash as a "controlled, quick landing"? Surely she didn't get this wording from the police or other official who broke the news to them. It's basically a lie at that point.

2) It sounds weird that she refers to her husband as Brandon Hannah, and not "my husband Brandon". Everyone in the cult knows that Brandon Hannah is her husband, so it feels unnecessarily distant.

3) I always get an eerie feeling when, in the midst of tragedy, someone is already thinking ahead to the future. "We will not stop moving forward with what GOD WANTS with this church" gives me that feeling. "Moving forward" does not seem like an appropriate choice of words when your mother and husband are missing and very possibly dead. And the future of the Church would not seem like an immediate concern. 

I'm just waiting for more details to be released...

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Speaking as a member, not a modly person...
My kid and I have discussed swears.  And the difference between swearing and "swearing at" people (1 gets you in trouble, 1 does not)
Funny how you can accuse NB of 'swearing at' folks for slipping damn into a sentence as she directs her words into a wall of intentionally obtuse (but clearly not 'at' anyone) but any pushback leads to REALLY leads to "swearing at" a mod without hesitation.

I'd be making you write a damn apology note (following mom's rules of apologies)

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16 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

1) Why does she minimize the crash as a "controlled, quick landing"? Surely she didn't get this wording from the police or other official who broke the news to them. It's basically a lie at that point.

I saw it less as a lie, and more as hope. I've never been in this specific situation, but I've been in a tangentially similar situation, and there's hope there. You want to hope that your loved one will be the exception. X is a good pilot, of course they managed to land the plane. Y is an excellent rock climber, of course they didn't fall off that cliff face. Z is an excellent diver, of course they didn't run out of air sort of thing. It's distancing and hopefulness, not intentional lie. At least that's how I read it. 

Edited by Destiny
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17 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

1) Why does she minimize the crash as a "controlled, quick landing"?

My guess was that either she didn't have much info at that point or, more sadly, it was already a form of denial kicking in. 

From all early reports, the plane went down very quickly and in such a way and at such a speed that it seemed VERY unlikely that anyone could have survived impact.

ETA: An experienced pilot, with good conditions and luck, can pancake in on a water surface but it has to be done just right & with an immense amount of control. From what we know so far, it doesn't sound anything was in the pilot's favor.

Edited by hoipolloi
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1 minute ago, Destiny said:

I saw it less as a lie, and more as hope. I've never been in this specific situation, but I've been in a tangentially similar situation, and there's hope there. X is a good pilot, of course they managed to land the plane. Y is an excellent rock climber, of course they didn't fall off that cliff face. Z is an excellent diver, of course they didn't run out of air sort of thing. It's distancing and hopefulness, not intentional lie. At least that's how I read it. 

I think it’s that plus they want enough info out to members for prayers, but not too much. Often times we would get an email or text to pray for *insert vague statement* and we would find out later how severe the situation was. Also, we don’t know when that was sent out. They may have legit not known yet

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5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And Joe’s poor daughter as well. I think she’s only 10 or 11.

I hope her mom gets her in therapy, RF is damaging, loosing a parent is damaging she will need professional help.

28 minutes ago, SoSoNosy said:

This is a C/P from a Nashville news site, a couple of minutes ago:

Rutherford County Fire Rescue said the search has transitioned from a rescue effort to a recovery effort

I am also not suprised. If servers were found that would have been reported quickly and helicopters would have rushed them to trauma 1 hospitals. I'm at my family lake house and I'm sure people were out on the lake, on their dock when it went down. The NTSB could have hundreds of witnesses to interview. 

Almost all of leadership was together, this will be very interesting to see how everything shakes out for leadership. Like others have mentioned, I figured Gwen would have a medical event that killed her not a plane crash. 

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People who follow this group more carefully than I: how important are the other two families to the leadership of the church? I know about Joe, Gwen and Brandon, but how high up are the other two couples? 

Edited by Destiny
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I am so glad none of the children were on board.  My heart is just breaking for Joe’s daughter. She has suffered through what seems to have been a bitter divorce, then her father’s marriage to a cult leader and now this. Poor kid. 

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Just now, Destiny said:

People who follow this group more carefully than I: how important are the other two families to the leadership of the church. I know about Joe, Gwen and Brandon, but how high up are the other two couples? 

The Martin’s was there from the beginning. David was Gwen’s right hand man, just like Ted Anger. The Walter’s was like one of the first couples to get married in RF, I believe. 
 

so they were very high ups. 

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3 minutes ago, Destiny said:

People who follow this group more carefully than I: how important are the other two families to the leadership of the church. I know about Joe, Gwen and Brandon, but how high up are the other two couples? 

The Martins are founding members I believe, and the Walters are younger but long time and on the leadership clique.

 

@ElleHouston beat me to it. Are the Angers still around? I cannot recall.

Edited by nelliebelle1197
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1 minute ago, ElleHouston said:

The Martin’s was there from the beginning. David was Gwen’s right hand man, just like Ted Anger. The Walter’s was like one of the first couples to get married in RF, I believe. 
 

so they were very high ups. 

So separately from the sadness, we are talking the backbone of the leadership then? I'm not going to lie, I would love to see this whole cult collapse like a house of cards. They are damaging as fuck. Who is Gwen's heir apparent? Do we know?

Edited by Destiny
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Are they counting the pilot as one of the seven? A crash right after take off makes me wonder if the plane was overloaded. (Not trying to be horrible. It just gives me flashbacks to the time when I saw a plane crash in my neighborhood.) 

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1 minute ago, Destiny said:

So separately from the sadness, we are talking the backbone of the leadership then?

The Martin’s, yes. The Walter’s was in the clique. 

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This is so tragic for Joe's daughter and Gwen's grandchildren.

But, since it has already happened, am I being a pollyanna in hoping that this means the cult will gradually dissolve?

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3 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Are they counting the pilot as one of the seven? A crash right after take off makes me wonder if the plane was overloaded. (Not trying to be horrible. It just gives me flashbacks to the time when I saw a plane crash in my neighborhood.) 

Yep, we think Joe was the pilot so three couples and Gwen’s son in law. 

Edited by nelliebelle1197
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  • hoipolloi changed the title to Gwen Shamblin Lara 15: [29 May 2021] Gwen, Joe & 5 Others Presumed Dead in Plane Crash
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