Dave Ramsey

[Soulhuntress]

@Howl this is the part that just passes me off so very very much  

57 minutes ago, Howl said:

From an outsider's perspective, many aspects of Christian counseling are a huge can of worms nest of vipers.  

• Biblical counselors must use the Scriptures in counseling as the authoritative and sufficient source for counseling content.
• Biblical counselors must reject any secular counseling intervention that is at odds with Scripture

I kind of wonder how many suicides occurred thanks to these "counselors".  Or psychotic breaks.....

[Marmion]

6 hours ago, Howl said:

From an outsider's perspective, many aspects of Christian counseling are a huge can of worms nest of vipers.  I'm not sure what guidelines Ramsey Solutions uses for Christian counseling but it can't be professional.  Anyone involved in the Ramsey scheme would certainly lose their state license to practice. 

Side trip/thread drift, because this is my only exposure to how Christian counseling works, using Doug Wilson (poster child for a high control individual) as an example. 

There is an  Association of Certified Biblical Counselors and these are the guildelines used by  Doug Wilson (Christ Church, Moscow, ID) and his Center for Biblical Counseling. 

Note: This service for Christ Church congregants does not include absolute confidentiality and assumes the Bible and theology as the solution to all problems and has these helpful notes: 

• Biblical counselors must use the Scriptures in counseling as the authoritative and sufficient source for counseling content.
• Biblical counselors must reject any secular counseling intervention that is at odds with Scripture

and many, many MANY paragraphs later

• Biblical counselors must also make clear to their counselees that a commitment to biblical authority requires the disclosure of certain kinds of information to certain parties. A biblical commitment to protect counselees from harm as well as commitments to the authority of the home, church, and or state may require disclosure of information that counselees would otherwise prefer to remain private.

For anyone who has followed Doug Wilson and his handling of pedophiles in his congregation will find the sheer hypocrisy about commitments to the authority of the state breathtaking. 

Also:  I'm convinced that Doug Wilson set up a Biblical counseling service to leverage personal secrets to control his little empire, but that's just me. 

It sounds like this is what Ramsey Solutions is doing as well.  It's beyond draconian, controlling and abusive.  

Here's one take on why Biblical counseling does not adhere to strict confidentiality from the Biblical Counseling Coalition, randomly found on the internet: 

 

On the topic of Doug Wilson , I would agree with this article , that he's acting like a cult leader .  http://moscowid.net/2017/08/16/the-cult-leader-and-his-useful-idiots/ Not only due to the dover up of sex abuse , but also due to the cult of confession , and lack of privacy .  This falls under information control .  

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4.  Encourage spying on other members
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
b. Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group   6.   Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories

https://freedomofmind.com/bite-model/   

[nokidsmom]

On 1/17/2021 at 12:48 PM, Howl said:

From an outsider's perspective, many aspects of Christian counseling are a huge can of worms nest of vipers. 

And this is exactly why I would not go with Christian counseling when choosing a therapist.   

The first time I referred myself to counseling, I was asked if I wanted a "christian" or "secular" therapist.   I specially choose the secular therapist because, among other things, I had concerns over the therapist being held to professional standards when it came to confidentiality but also because of "Christian" bias.    I wanted someone who would be completely objective, I didn't need anyone telling me that something wasn't "biblical" or "against the commandments" or some other religious rule/belief/directive.  I was raised in a religious household, I knew all of that, I just wanted HELP without all of that being tacked on.

I am currently in therapy and I went the same way in choosing my current therapist. 

[gustava]

"You freaking work for me!"

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2021/01/29/is-dave-ramseys-empire-best-place-work-america/4281535001/

 

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

On 1/17/2021 at 2:53 PM, Soulhuntress said:

@Howl this is the part that just passes me off so very very much  

I kind of wonder how many suicides occurred thanks to these "counselors".  Or psychotic breaks.....

If any of the therapy involved "conversion therapy" of an lgbt individual, I could nearly guarantee a suicide or attempted suicide. 

[The Mother Dust]

17 hours ago, gustava said:

"You freaking work for me!"

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2021/01/29/is-dave-ramseys-empire-best-place-work-america/4281535001/

 

So freakin typical that of course Dave punishes the women who dont adhere to his "christian" sexual behavior policy, but when a man engages in the same sexual behavior (especially when its a higher profile personality who brings in $) why, Dave just looks the other way....nothing to see here folks.  Could Dave Ramsey be more stereotypical if he tried.  Sidenote, i'm happy to see the Tenessean picked up the story..probably more people will see it than on the Religion News Service site.

Edit to add, I just looked at dave ramseys glassdoor again, and the reviews have dropped the rating even more.  There are a bunch of new positive reviews posted just this past week though, so IMO, it's obvious that their HR are making employees write positive reviews again, as noted earlier in this thread (for anyone who diddnt see that earlier.). https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Ramsey-Solutions-Reviews-E355423.htm

Edited January 31, 2021 by The Mother Dust

[Emma]

Small town where I used to live, police were called to domestic violence. Police “chaplain” (fundamentalist) was called. He talked wife out of pressing charges. Two weeks later the husband killed wife. I really really hate fundies. And I’m not too fond of police “chaplains”.

[nokidsmom]

7 hours ago, The Mother Dust said:

Sidenote, i'm happy to see the Tenessean picked up the story..probably more people will see it than on the Religion News Service site.

I am happy to see that as well.   I find the stories about the company culture very disturbing but what really got me was the level of control over and company involvement demanded of the couple (where the husband cheated) as they were working on their marriage.   Authorizing their own therapists to report back to the company?  No freaking way!

[hoipolloi]

11 hours ago, The Mother Dust said:

Sidenote, i'm happy to see the Tenessean picked up the story..probably more people will see it than on the Religion News Service site.

Me three. The more mainstream publicity this asshat gets, the better.

Maybe, with the Biden administration, he'll get some federal "attention" for his treatment of employees and things like the company's demands to violate HIPAA confidentiality requirements.

[nokidsmom]

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Me three. The more mainstream publicity this asshat gets, the better.

Maybe, with the Biden administration, he'll get some federal "attention" for his treatment of employees and things like the company's demands to violate HIPAA confidentiality requirements.

Dave does seem to think he's beyond certain pesky things like...federal regulations.  Gets in his way of "my company I can do what I want" mentality.   If a more deep dive was done into his companies' employee relations, I am reasonably sure they would be tagged just a few violations.    I think on some level he knows he would get in some trouble if subjected to more legal scrutiny. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by nokidsmom
Clarification

[The Mother Dust]

On 12/13/2020 at 7:45 PM, Marmion said:

Here is the most recent information I have found , concerning the case  . { https://dockets.justia.com/docket/tennessee/tnmdce/3:2020cv00628/83303 , https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/35426185/OConnor_v_The_Lampo_Group,_LLC } 

Update - the lawyers for the defendant requested and were approved for a confidentiality order on the case.  Is that the same as a gag order?  If so, very typical they probably don't want the mom of a new baby out there, talking about how this pro-life org eliminated her income and as a consequence, her and the infant's health insurance.  Also, Ramsey HR  PR is leaving nasty responses to glassdoor reviews.  Such a professional organization.  https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Ramsey-Solutions-Interview-Questions-E355423.htm.    As a longtime and avid glassdoor user, I've seen employer responses before, (some good some not so good). but nothing as unprofessional as this.   

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Edited January 31, 2021 by The Mother Dust

[treemom]

6 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Me three. The more mainstream publicity this asshat gets, the better.

Maybe, with the Biden administration, he'll get some federal "attention" for his treatment of employees and things like the company's demands to violate HIPAA confidentiality requirements.

Maybe.  The pregnant woman probably had the best case.  TN is an at will employment state, and it’s honestly unlikely anything will change.

[hoipolloi]

5 hours ago, treemom said:

TN is an at will employment state, and it’s honestly unlikely anything will change.

I was afraid of that.

[treemom]

https://melissajhogan.com/dave-ramsey-gossip-slander-privacy/

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, treemom said:

https://melissajhogan.com/dave-ramsey-gossip-slander-privacy/

Her post is quite interesting but it is also worth listening to the recording of Dave Ramsey gossiping with his employees over her marriage & its problems.

After listening to his little stories on loyalty & how he treats people he considers worthy of his loyalty, it's clear Dave Ramsey is either really fucking stupid or is an incredibly poor judge of character. It seems that his default is that if you're a white Christian penis-holder, you will always get the benefit of any doubt expressed about your behavior or actions.

Once again, I can't believe that people listen to this asshat much less pay good money for his so-called advice. 

 

[MamaJunebug]

9 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

. It seems that his default is that if you're a white Christian penis-holder, you will always get the benefit of any doubt expressed about your behavior or actions.

Oh, Dave’s more inclusive than that. Ms. Hogan’s ex- is not white. 
The ex- is also an author whose scheduled book release, at that time, was a big part of the corporation’s Plan. 

Mr. Hogan: a male and a money maker. A profit center  

Former Mrs. Hogan: a cost center if ever there was one. She had no chance of receiving fair treatment. 

[hoipolloi]

On 2/3/2021 at 8:50 PM, MamaJunebug said:

Mr. Hogan: a male and a money maker. A profit center  

Make that ex-profit center:

Quote

 

Chris Hogan, once viewed as a successor to Ramsey, announced in a video on Wednesday (March 10) that he was no longer with the company.

“Recently, it’s come to light that I’ve done some things personally that are not in line with Ramsey Solutions and as a result, I’m no longer a team member at Ramsey,” Hogan said in the brief video. “I’m sorry for the harm that this has caused.”

The company said it was “deeply disappointed” in what it called Hogan’s “recent admissions.”

“This week, new information came to light that Chris Hogan has recently done some things personally that are not in line with Ramsey Solutions’ core values,” the company said in a statement. “As a result of his current actions and behavior, Chris Hogan is no longer a team member at Ramsey or a Ramsey Personality. ”

 

 

[The Mother Dust]

10 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Make that ex-profit center:

 

Ahhhhhhh!!!!  ? @hoipolloi thank you so much for sharing that!  I think someone shared above that Dirty Dave is recently selling his mansion to move further out to the country, and recently dropped his first name from his show, most likely in anticipation of his daughter taking his role when he retires.  If that is imminent, cynical me wonders if Hogan would have been fired if the daughter wasn't on the cusp of taking over.  I wonder if she put pressure for Hogan to be gone so she could start with a clean slate.  I also wonder if Hogan would have been fired if one of Dave's two sons was taking over.

ETA further cynical thoughts:  I bet the daughter will only have the radio role....I bet Dave will still have his roles in the company off the mic.  He seems that controlling.  Poor employees.

Edited March 11, 2021 by The Mother Dust

[MamaJunebug]

Well that is timely!

A friend is setting up an IRA (her employer doesn’t offer a 401k) and when I googled how to do that a week ago, there was ol’Chris—went back and googled the same thing yesterday and got the Ramsey info sans Chris Hogan! 
I’d thought his name was familiar for throwing his ex-wife under the bus Ramsey was driving. Interesting turn of events.

[hoipolloi]

Dave Ramsey is now being sued by another former employee:

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A complaint filed Thursday in a county court alleges that the Lampo Group, which does business as Ramsey Solutions, was run as a “religious cult,” and required employees to give “complete and total submission to Dave Ramsey and his views of the world to maintain employment.”

Ramsey, whose Financial Peace University materials on personal finances are used by church’s nationwide, is also named as a defendant.

The complaint also alleges that Ramsey’s handling of the COVID-19 pandemic put employees and their families at risk.

 

 

[livinginthelight]

Hi,

My church recently went down a Financial Peace University rabbit hole. We did some deep digging into Dave Ramsey and did NOT like what we found. This is probably not news to some of you but to others (such as at my fairly liberal presbyterian church) it was pretty jaw-dropping. Ramsey had a good reputation with many of our members. We knew he was conservative but didn't realize how terrible he was.

https://religionnews.com/2021/01/15/dave-ramsey-is-tired-of-being-called-a-jerk-for-his-stands-on-sex-and-covid/

Edited August 10, 2023 by Coconut Flan

[Giraffe]

Thanks for bringing this up. He's an awful human being and so much of his abuse gets swept under the rug because he gives such "great" financial advice! 

[nokidsmom]

What I find interesting about Financial Peace University is that people actually pay to get information a lot of which is basically available for free.    Dave's baby steps "financial advice" regarding getting out of debt and developing savings is frankly quite basic, and I say this as someone who followed similar steps but sure didn't attend FPU to get there,   I get that his advice has been helpful to people especially when they are at the "pants on fire" stage but some of his other advice is not optimal and some of it is actually harmful IMHO.  

I could be wrong on this but I thought that the folks who become FPU instructors have to spend money to become one.   They lead the class for free, the participants have to pay for membership.    Dave has his books, his investment offerings, and all kinds of products for which he makes money.    He's got every angle covered when it comes to making money for himself and like a cult, people line up taking in his every word as Gospel and are willing to pay money for it.

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by nokidsmom

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

Dave has his books, his investment offerings, and all kinds of products for which he makes money. 

My BCBS health plan offers discounts to members on various non-medical services such as gyms and skin care salons. Several years ago, they offered one for Dave Ramsey's FPU. I don't know what the charges for enrolling were but it wasn't free. I was appalled and contacted them to recommend that they sever any relationship with him ASAP. I provided links to investigative articles and said that I thought supporting an explicitly Christian business was inappropriate. They appear to have dumped him and now only have a couple of local financial advisors who can provide assistance to plan members for a discount.

I suspect that a lot of people or businesses don't know who & what Dave Ramsey is so I hope that the word spreads on what a slimy asshole he is and what a scam operation FPU is.

[nokidsmom]

14 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

My BCBS health plan offers discounts to members on various non-medical services such as gyms and skin care salons. Several years ago, they offered one for Dave Ramsey's FPU. I don't know what the charges for enrolling were but it wasn't free. 

From what I heard the enrollment charges were about $100 and that was several years ago.   It's probably more now. 

I thought it was just wrong to charge people money, some of whom could ill afford it because they were on the "pants on fire" stage and needed to hang on to every penny to dig themselves out of their financial hole first.   And especially for advice that can be found elsewhere for free because a lot of Dave's basic advice is not original, it fact it's pretty typical, he just put a different name on it.

20 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

I suspect that a lot of people or businesses don't know who & what Dave Ramsey is so I hope that the word spreads on what a slimy asshole he is and what a scam operation FPU is.

I get taking the class might get some people moving but once you think how many places FPU is offered/pushed, the enrollment fees multiplied by the number of participants, take in account that the instructor is teaching for free, and yeah, Dave's got a good amount of money coming in just on FPU alone.