Snowflake Republicans Want To Change State Borders

[GreyhoundFan]

"Republicans in super-liberal Oregon are so fed up they want to become part of Idaho"

Quote

Seven years ago, keen for a more conservative lifestyle, Mike McCarter, a firearms instructor in La Pine, Ore., considered moving to Idaho.

But McCarter, 72, diagnosed with stomach cancer, decided not to. Now he’s thinking he might just move Idaho to him.

The Republican is a leader of a group called Move Oregon’s Border for a Greater Idaho, which thinks Oregon’s government has become too liberal and would prefer to transfer Oregon’s rural areas to Idaho’s authority.

While Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton narrowly won Oregon in 2016, then-Republican candidate Donald Trump swept up Idaho with nearly 60 percent of the vote.

McCarter’s group is asking 18 Oregon counties to approve their petitions to open communications with Oregon’s legislature. Three have in the past week, McCarter said. Once approved, the group still would need to collect signatures of about 6 percent of the counties’ populations for local voters to see the referendum on their November ballots, the Oregonian recently reported.

Both state legislatures and Congress would need to approve the change, per the U.S. Constitution.

The move might upset Idaho’s conservative base, which has long feared an influx of California residents. A surge from the blue state prompted some in Idaho to make bumper stickers with slogans like “Welcome to Idaho, now go home” and “Don’t Californicate Idaho.”

But McCarter said the addition of Oregon’s counties would improve Idaho, including giving the landlocked state its first ocean port.

Phase two of the plan would be to recruit California’s northern counties, McCarter said.

The proposal has already received support from some lawmakers, including Oregon state Rep. Gary Leif (R), who put up a map of the “Greater Idaho” in his office.

“If Portland is trying to divide the state of Oregon, then they are doing an excellent job and will provide all the more reasons to make this happen,” Leif said in an email to The Washington Post. “It would be in the best interest to let Portland be Oregon and let us secede to Idaho.”

Idaho has reportedly served as a conservative sanctuary before. This past summer, Republican lawmakers fled the capital, possibly to Idaho, to avoid voting on a climate change measure, prompting Oregon Gov. Kate Brown (D) to call the police.

This also isn’t the first time in recent history that the borders of Oregon have faced a proposed change. Several groups have supported the “state of Jefferson,” which would comprise northern California and southwestern Oregon.

One of the movement’s leaders, Mark Baird, said he supports the petitions and plans to join the group.

“Rural people and rural counties no longer have a voice,” he said. “I, as an individual, recognize that a rising tide floats all boats. If this turns out to be the shortest route to liberty and representation, I’ll give it a go.”

But support for the state of Jefferson has yet to gain momentum. McCarter said it’s easier to move a border than create a state, citing a case in 1961 when about 20 acres of land were transferred from Minnesota to North Dakota.

“I can live right where I am, with the great pines and river across from me, and still have the benefits of Idaho,” he said. “I suppose it’s like the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence.”

I love how he whines about rural people not having a voice. Um, thanks to the electoral college, they have an out-sized voice.

[47of74]

Can you imagine the amount of whining these shits would do if Canada offered to extend its national borders down into Minnesota, Oregon, Washington State, and so on?  Or if Texas broke up into smaller states because the liberal areas don't want anything to do with the parts of the state that are Dumbfuckistan? 

 

[clueliss]

Native Kansan living elsewhere here.  From time to time the 'Western Kansas is going to cede the state' business pops up.  And NE Kansans shrug their shoulders and say okay but the money's over here.  We have Topeka, Kansas City Metro (Wyandotte/Johnson Counties), Lawrence (Douglas County) and we're keeping Wichita and Fort Riley/Manhattan (Kansas State University)/Junction City.  And that movement never quite takes off.  

[CTRLZero]

1 hour ago, clueliss said:

From time to time the 'Western Kansas is going to cede the state' business pops up.

The same shenanigans happen in Washington state from time to time.  There are about three separate areas that I can recall that periodically threaten to cede from the state.  Some of the cessation talk involves rural versus city folk, but in the north eastern corner, it's white supremacists.   So far, the state has remained intact.

[GreyhoundFan]

I live in Northern Virginia and the western (rural) part of the state often whines about the ebil libruls in NoVa and threaten to join West Virginia. They conveniently forget that the high taxes we pay in NoVa pay for their services. Fine, then we can keep our significant tax dollars here and you can join one of the poorest states in the US. In fact, some nimrod WV legislators offered some rural VA counties a chance to move because the ebil libruls who have taken over the VA legislature are starting to enact common sense gun reform.

[Alisamer]

I can kind of understand where they're coming from - it wouldn't bother me one bit if all the trump-loving idiots created their own country so they could actually experience living with the government they want.

But still, this is dumb. 

So many people are dumb.

It's disheartening.

[Maggie Mae]

My state has a higher number of people who are "unaffiliated" than Rs or Ds combined. There's also the "Alaska Independence Party" which makes up about 3% of registered voters (or 17K). I honestly have a hard time believing that 17,000 registered voters participate in a political party that has one goal - to leave the state of the union - and instead a large number of people who think "Independence Party" is the same as "independent voter." Either way - that's 17,000 incredibly stupid people. 

We also got a bunch of people who think that the population center isn't part of the state. 

People are dumb. 

Trump voters are dumb. 

 

[AliceInFundyland]

NonRepublican Oregonian here. That climate change measure was a fine idea, but not realistic for the constituency.

When the lawmakers are in fact fleeing to other states to avoid voting, something is amiss.

And not all our Republicans are assholes. I've met some of them. They can be fairly moderate.

That argument wasn't about anything social. It had to do with emissions and jobs in the rural areas and that kind of thing. (My brain has gone blank before last July)

I'm not arguing that climate change is unimportant. But, if we're capable of agreeing on others things like school budgets or health care measures.. Let us focus there. It was a colossal waste of the week or so they went AWOL and made them more antagonistic when they came back.

[clueliss]

12 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

 

And not all our Republicans are assholes. I've met some of them. They can be fairly moderate.

 

Snipped and bolded the quote to get to what I wanted to comment on.

Moderate Republicans vs Hard Right is what goes on in Kansas.  Johnson County KS is Old Guard Republican - meaning moderates.  (This is where a lot of the Money in Kansas is - and we're talking tax dollars).  Western Kansas and to some degree SE Kansas/Other areas are much more conservative.  And to the consternation of the hard right, the moderates will decide that something or a candidate is too far to the right, cross the aisle and vote democratic.  (and that is why right now the US House district that covers Johnson County is Dem).  There's also the nasty issue of school funding.  When I lived outside of Lawrence I was repped at the state level by someone who did a study and the math.  There was more money coming out of about 5 counties in NE Kansas in tax dollars than coming back, specifically in the realm of educational funding.  So NE Kansas is funding Western Kansas unwillingness to support their own schools.  And the laws have now been written to prevent places like suburban Kansas City - who wants to spend money on schools - from raising that money via increases in property taxes, or sales taxes.  

[AliceInFundyland]

@clueliss

I went to public school in Johnson County in the 1990s. My dad was transferred there from Mass bc of work and that was about the only thing they liked. We were on a very rural edge. It's now McMansions.

Other than everyone going to church, and us not, it didn't impact me much. (politics) The educational drive to achieve was present on both sides  of the fence.

It's interesting when I stalk my former classmates who still live in the area. I'm curious about their political leanings. I know they're

1. Still in touch with former classmates who have come out

2. Often still Jesus positive

3. Pretty proeducation

4. Upper middle class.

Last I checked it was one of the 10 wealthiest counties in the country. I'm not at all surprised it fucks with the rest of the state.

 

[clueliss]

@AliceInFundyland So does Lawrence.  I watched repeated efforts in Topeka to literally divide Lawrence in two to split it between districts (because heaven knows you can't have Lawrence and KCK in the same district or oooh Democratic - and I wish I were joking)

[Alisamer]

On 2/19/2020 at 8:26 PM, AliceInFundyland said:

It was a colossal waste of the week or so they went AWOL and made them more antagonistic when they came back.

In what other job can someone just run away for a week and still keep their job?

I know elections are a huge pain and expensive, and special elections even more so, but damn. Politicians need to do the jobs they are elected to do. If they just leave the state or refuse, they should get fired the same as anybody else who did the same. 

I think that's probably a big part of the problem the government in general has. Any consequences of this sort of thing don't come until the next election, assuming people haven't forgotten by then.

[Audrey2]

2 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I think that's probably a big part of the problem the government in general has. Any consequences of this sort of thing don't come until the next election, assuming people haven't forgotten by then.

Sadly, these politicians won't face that consequence. They come from areas that are more Republican in a state that is much stronger Democrat. Their constituents because they are much more strongly skewed Republican will continue to elect the same legislators, and every time they walk out they'll say they're sticking it to the Democrats.

[AliceInFundyland]

3 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

Sadly, these politicians won't face that consequence. They come from areas that are more Republican in a state that is much stronger Democrat. Their constituents because they are much more strongly skewed Republican will continue to elect the same legislators, and every time they walk out they'll say they're sticking it to the Democrats.

At least they were fined. I forget exactly how much, but it was 500+ a day. It's something...

[GreyhoundFan]

The issue has been revived again. "Five rural counties in liberal Oregon vote in favor of leaving state for more conservative Idaho"

Quote

Five rural counties in Oregon voted this week to press forward with a plan to leave the state and merge with neighboring Idaho, the latest move in a long-shot campaign by conservatives who say they’re fed up with Oregon’s left-leaning politics.

Voters in Baker, Grant, Lake, Malheur and Sherman counties — sparsely populated areas in the state’s eastern half — approved ballot measures Tuesday requiring local officials to consider redrawing the border to make them Idahoans.

Behind the push is a nonprofit called Citizens for Greater Idaho that argues the predominantly Republican parts of Oregon would be better served if Idaho incorporated them. The group’s president, Mike McCarter, says the expanded state he envisions would become the country’s third-largest in terms of landmass.

The votes in favor of the idea reflect a deepening of divisions between the state’s urban and rural populations that has become more pronounced in recent years. Democrats in the state have flocked to densely populated counties in the west, while Republicans have grown their majorities in the east.

“This election proves that rural Oregon wants out of Oregon,” McCarter said in a statement. “If we’re allowed to vote for which government officials we want, we should be allowed to vote for which government we want as well.”

But while the proposal to ditch Oregon for Idaho may be popular in the Beaver State’s right-leaning enclaves, the chances of it actually becoming a reality are slim. Lawmakers in Oregon and Idaho would have to enact bills the redefine the states’ boundaries and redistrict their legislatures. They’d also have to muster the votes to override a potential veto from their respective governors. And then Congress would have to sign off on the move.

“Given the number of entities whose approval would be required, I just don’t think it will happen,” Norman Williams, a constitutional law professor at Willamette University in Salem, Ore., said in an email.

Even if there was support among Democrats, Williams said, “no Legislature or Governor wants to be one (I think) who goes down in history as having given away half of the state’s territory to Idaho.”

The idea for a “Greater Idaho” began more than a year ago when McCarter, a retired firearms instructor in his 70s from La Pine, Ore., became disgruntled with the state’s liberal leanings. Across the border, he saw more ideological kinship.

His proposal for Idaho to swallow parts of Oregon’s south and east shares DNA with a long-standing push to create a “state of Jefferson” comprising Northern California and southwestern Oregon. But asking to join an existing state is a slightly less difficult task than forming an entirely new one. McCarter points to a 1961 land transfer between Minnesota and North Dakota as evidence that it can be done.

McCarter has called the effort “a peaceful revolution” and a way “to gain political refuge from blue states” in interviews with the Oregonian. He claims that relocating the border could bring tax benefits to both states and ease some political gridlock in Oregon.

A signature-gathering campaign by McCarter’s organization paid off last year when Jefferson County in the central part of the state and Union County in the northeast voted to study the proposal. Other counties added referendums on the move to their ballots.

In an email to The Washington Post, McCarter acknowledged that his proposal faced major obstacles. But he said Tuesday’s vote showed that “when rural Oregon voters are educated on the arguments for and against joining Idaho, they vote in favor.”

Some conservative lawmakers in both states have spoken favorably about changing the map. State Rep. Barbara Ehardt, a Republican from Idaho Falls, said in a hearing last month that “there are some appealing things to Idahoans, at least in my estimation, to even consider this.” And Idaho Gov. Brad Little (R) told Fox News last year that he understood why rural Oregonians would “like a little more autonomy, a little more control.”

But Idaho Democrats have called the idea outlandish and counterproductive.

“Cherry-picking deeply red counties to add to our state would make our politics even more dysfunctional,” state Rep. Lauren Necochea, of Boise, told The Washington Post. “I am heartened that this is a long-shot from a legal and procedural standpoint because the ramifications would be devastating.”

State Sen. Melissa Wintrow, a Democrat also from Boise, dismissed the proposal as a harebrained attempt to curry favor with GOP voters. “People are using this stuff for campaigns and not to help in any governmental way,” Wintrow said in an interview.

Wintrow said there were practical considerations that make expanding Idaho’s border a bad idea. The Gem State already has a small population — just shy of 1.8 million — and enlarging it could burden government programs, she said.

Moreover, she said, it’s not the right move for a country trying to heal political wounds.

“Folks are digging in, in different camps, and that’s not how to live a life,” she said. “We’re the United States of America. It’s time for us to take a deep breath, be honest and realistic about our history and where we’re going to go together.”

 

[Howl]

Malheur was the county that stood out for me.  This is where Ammon Bundy took over the Malheur Wildlife Refuge.  A neighboring area (and possibly other areas as well) had a sheriff who was into the Sovereign Citizen movement. Sovereign Citizens consider sheriffs to be the absolute highest authority.   Not sure where I'm going with this, but parts of eastern Oregon are seriously out there; it's not surprising they want to be part of Idaho (or Or-Ida, like the potato brand).