John Ortberg’s Estranged Son Accuses Him of Protecting Pedophile

[Howl]

Well, Grandma Ortberg (Kathy) has gone all "Demonic possession! 

 

[livinginthelight]

On July 7, Laura confirmed to a friend that she and her husband were not allowing Johnny to see her son unsupervised. While she doesn't say directly that John and Nancy were involved in the decision, it does sound as if they were at least aware.

This gives the lie to the statement of the family that they were convinced Johnny is harmless. If her son needed and deserved protection, did not the children in John's church need and deserve the same?

[Giraffe]

How do you sleep at night knowing you keep your son safe while simultaneously offering up other people’s children to potentially life changing harm? How?!

[Howl]

38 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

How do you sleep at night knowing you keep your son safe while simultaneously offering up other people’s children to potentially life changing harm? How?!

The other person that wants to know how Laura sleeps at night is the person who received that email from Laura Turner. 

[Howl]

Grace has formally, completely and publicly broken with the Ortberg family by publishing on Twitter the text of the email she sent them on Nov. 18 last year. 

 

[livinginthelight]

Danny and Grace have handled the whole thing with such integrity and compassion. I am so sad for them that they are getting cast in the role of demonic trans attackers. No wonder they have renounced Christianity, with these role models. As a Christian, my heart is broken for them and I am absolutely furious at Ortberg and Menlo Church.

I can't remember if it's been addressed in this thread, but a few others have stepped forward with stories of abuse from previous youth leaders at that church. One was a rape of a high school student in 1991 by a pastor. The church - under different leadership than Ortberg at that time - did not report it. They framed it as a "love affair" and allowed that pastor to leave and get a position at a different church. He's a pastor to this day. A second incident happened in 2008 when Ortberg was there. This incident was of grooming behaviors and emotional abuse by a youth pastor towards a high school student. Nothing was done for MONTHS. This incident exemplifies the damage that can be done even if there is no direct sexual contact.

As someone with indirect ties to the Ortberg family, I am SO angry.

[Giraffe]

John Ortberg’s finally been pressured to resign. 
 

https://menlo.church/statements-from-our-leadership

[CrazyCatLady]

John Ortberg’s finally been pressured to resign. 
 
https://menlo.church/statements-from-our-leadership

Think he'll just move on to another church now?

[Giraffe]

9 minutes ago, CrazyCatLady said:

12 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

John Ortberg’s finally been pressured to resign. 
 
https://menlo.church/statements-from-our-leadership

Think he'll just move on to another church now?

If he’s truly “repentant” he’ll quietly fade away into oblivion. If not I expect the work Daniel & Grace put in to get to this point will be sure to follow him. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Giraffe
Grammaring betterer. Maybe.

[CrazyCatLady]

If he’s truly “repentant” he’ll quietly fade away into oblivion. If not I expect the work Daniel & Grace put in to getting to this point will be sure to follow him. 

I have a hard time believing he's truly repentant considering his treatment of Daniel and Grace. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

[Giraffe]

I’m right there with you. If he remains in the shadows I fully believe it’s only because he knows they’ll hold him accountable again, not because he believes he did anything wrong. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Giraffe
Adding words

[CrazyCatLady]

Now I'm wondering what the church board will do. They don't seem to be taking much responsibility for botching their response and "investigation" into the allegations.

[Giraffe]

Exactly. It still feels very much like, “well shit. Bullying Daniel and Grace hasn’t worked so what else can we try?”

Edited July 29, 2020 by Giraffe
Spelling

[wendy-sparkles]

Daniel Lavery has publicised an account of sexual abuse by John Ortberg

 

[NachosFlandersStyle]

A woman has come forward with allegations that she was assaulted by John Ortberg  (the pastor, not the son) when she was 15. I am not sure I understand the timeline here -- was this already public in 2018? But wow. 

 

[indianabones]

That blog post has very graphic descriptions of child abuse and molestation, just as a heads-up for people who click on the link.

[closetcagebaby]

Wow, what a family. And they dare to say that Danny is the problematic one. 

[livinginthelight]

Does anyone else think her accusations are over the top? And they defend Bill Hybels, who I am convinced is evil. Looking at the date (2018), I wonder if this is some kind of fictional hit piece on Hybels' accusers. All the people named are whistleblowers, and Hybels comes out smelling like a rose.

I've worked with a lot of survivors of abuse. It seems to me there is something off about her story. Too many people being too blatant in the abuse. Even when abuse is widespread, there is more of a grooming process for the victims and the language is more subtle than that. It just doesn't ring true. I'm not an Ortberg fan at all but I'm not convinced.

Edited February 25, 2021 by livinginthelight

[Hane]

@livinginthelight, I don’t doubt that this young woman was the victim of abuse, but it did read as a bit over the top to me, too.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Hane

[closetcagebaby]

I think if Daniel finds the accusations feasible, that means a lot. 

[Giraffe]

John covered up his son’s pedophilia and also encouraged him to spend time with children. Someone now accusing John Sr of assault doesn’t surprise me in the least. 

As someone who was molested - and not believed because the way I told it didn’t sound realistic to those who weren’t there, I loathe reading about accusations sounding “over the top.”

IMO I get it, we all come with our own biases and obviously I have my own, but until there’s evidence to the contrary it’s potentially harmful to the accuser as well as to other potential victims to assume a stance of it sounding “off” without having evidence as to why.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Giraffe

[livinginthelight]

2 hours ago, Giraffe said:

IMO I get it, we all come with our own biases and obviously I have my own, but until there’s evidence to the contrary it’s potentially harmful to the accuser as well as to other potential victims to assume a stance of it sounding “off” without having evidence as to why.

Giraffe, I'm sorry you weren't believed. I do understand where you are coming from.

Your comment made me think further about what sounds off to me. Here are a few:

1. Not only are we to believe that Ortberg molested her, but we are also to believe that Nancy Beach was in the business of procuring victims for him and actively assisted him in the assault, and that Betty Schmidt must have been in on it too. That's a lot of people behaving blatantly at a time when meetings are happening at the church.

2. I do absolutely believe that Willow has an egregious "attractiveness standard" for those who go onstage. I have a hard time imagining the standard being described as "fuckable."

3. Vonda Dyer's husband is named Scott, not Steve. She talks as if she knows him well but gets his name wrong at least three times.

4. She is so defensive of Hybels, who we KNOW molested women. Granted, Hybels may not have molested her. But it's interesting to me that she's naming all his accusers almost as if they were in a sex trafficking ring.

5. According to Danny (Ortberg's son) on Twitter,  he and his wife Grace were told this last year in confidence by the accuser, who was allegedly very private and reluctant to give them permission to share this information. But evidence clearly shows the accuser tried to publicize her accusations in 2018. This does not add up for me.

These are some of the main reasons I am reluctant to give credence to these accusations. I do think this person has been molested during her life. But I doubt this particular part of her story.

Edited February 28, 2021 by livinginthelight

[Giraffe]

@livinginthelight, thanks for the reasons. I can understand why you have reservations. 

[closetcagebaby]

I can’t speak to all of those reasons, but for #5 I think there’s a difference between getting out your story on a blog and then reliving that in a much more public space (Daniel Lavery is super well known and has a huge social media presence) a few years later. 
 

ETA:

and if this was supposedly a hit piece to bring down John Ortberg, wouldn’t she want all the media attention possible?

Edited March 1, 2021 by closetcagebaby

[tanba]

18 hours ago, livinginthelight said:

Giraffe, I'm sorry you weren't believed. I do understand where you are coming from.

Your comment made me think further about what sounds off to me. Here are a few:

1. Not only are we to believe that Ortberg molested her, but we are also to believe that Nancy Beach was in the business of procuring victims for him and actively assisted him in the assault, and that Betty Schmidt must have been in on it too. That's a lot of people behaving blatantly at a time when meetings are happening at the church.

2. I do absolutely believe that Willow has an egregious "attractiveness standard" for those who go onstage. I have a hard time imagining the standard being described as "fuckable."

3. Vonda Dyer's husband is named Scott, not Steve. She talks as if she knows him well but gets his name wrong at least three times.

4. She is so defensive of Hybels, who we KNOW molested women. Granted, Hybels may not have molested her. But it's interesting to me that she's naming all his accusers almost as if they were in a sex trafficking ring.

5. According to Danny (Ortberg's son) on Twitter,  he and his wife Grace were told this last year in confidence by the accuser, who was allegedly very private and reluctant to give them permission to share this information. But evidence clearly shows the accuser tried to publicize her accusations in 2018. This does not add up for me.

These are some of the main reasons I am reluctant to give credence to these accusations. I do think this person has been molested during her life. But I doubt this particular part of her story.

I am extremely uncomfortable with judging whether women are telling the truth when they’re coming forward. All of these issues you mentioned can indeed be explained with trauma and the trauma response, which messes with our memory in a way that is often scary. 
 

I’m not saying she’s definitely saying the truth, I’m saying that it’s not exactly our place to judge whether she’s telling the truth. Dissecting every word someone says makes women less likely to speak out in the future, and especially within this society, and with someone who knowingly put kids at risk at the hands of a pedophile for the edification of this pedophile, I’m very, very uncomfortable with this line of doubting/questioning.