Bates 28: Defected Products Courtesy of the SOTDRT

[SeekingAdventure]

On 2/1/2021 at 8:29 PM, artdecades said:

Why does it matter if it’s the first abortion or the fiftieth a woman has? If you don’t think one abortion is bad why do you think multiple ones are? 

I think I might not have brought my original point across very well.

I don't think abortion is 'bad', not if it is one or 15, I think everybody should be deciding that by themselves, and that nobody has the right to restrict the right to abortion for someone else. Everybody should be able to choose for themselves.

 

What I think is a bit weird is to use abortion as a birth control, if you could just as well, use birth control, like condoms etc, since it also protects from things besides pregnancy. In this case (that I mentionned above, of the kids in my school) I am a bit of a burned child, I guess, since these were actually the people who bullied me resentlessly, and showed up at my parents door to complain that they never let me go to a bar (we were 13) and terrorised me and a few others that didn't like to do the same things they wanted to do.

I never asked them to show up here, and I never wanted to go out with them, but I guess, due to my backstory with said individuals, and knowing the family history etc that well, It is just a bit of a personal touch too.

 

Long story short. Everybody should choose, nobody should be able to affect their choice, and in my very personal opinion, if you do not want to have a kid, then try birth control as a first choice, and if you end up getting pregnant, do whatever you choose to do

[FluffySnowball]

22 minutes ago, SeekingAdventure said:

What I think is a bit weird is to use abortion as a birth control, if you could just as well, use birth control, like condoms etc, since it also protects from things besides pregnancy.

I get what you mean and agree with your point - of course there are preventative methods of birth control and in general, prevention is better than trying to fix a difficult situation when you’re already in it. 

There’s just one point I want to add because I think it’s important: from all I’ve ever heard and read, abortions are only very rarely intentionally used as birth control.

Many pro-birthers want to paint the picture that way and pretend women who get abortions are irresponsible hoes who just - for some weird reason - prefer undergoing this medical procedure frequently instead of being “more responsible” (they usually also frown upon condoms and the pill and demand abstinence, but anyway, that’s another topic). But that’s not the case in normal situations I think. No one I know has unprotected sex and has other means of prevention available but still intends to get an abortion. Abortions usually are a last resort. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by FluffySnowball

[SeekingAdventure]

yes, you are absolutely right @FluffySnowball

It is not many people who do that, and I'm glad it's not. I don't want to stop anyone from choosing, I just think if you have the choice between using birth control, because you have access (and in this case, they would have, and they didn't need to be afraid of what some people were thinking if they were buying BC etc, everybody knew they were sexually active..) why not use it, you know?

I think in my case, it is really just the fact that I knew these people, since I went to school with them for a long time, and I and everybody in our class/school/village knew as well that they were sexually active, and they didn't hide it either, it was more that they were bragging about it, so that's why I said, I'm a bit of a burnt child there anyways...

 

But I think I'm gonna leave it at that and not beat on the dead parrot much longer. If somebody disagrees with me, then that's it, and I can live with that, and if I have not managed to explain what I meant well, it wouldn't get any better anyways ?

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m going to change topics with my post only because something just occurred to me like a light bulb above my head, lol. 
 

The Bateses and Duggars just love to travel around the country “helping” after natural disasters like tornadoes or hurricanes. It just occurred to me that there are tons of places all over the country asking for volunteers for vaccine clinics. Some of these fundies even have some first responder training. They could help so many people at mass vaccine clinics with paperwork, directing traffic, sanitation, and answering questions. Yet we won’t see any of them volunteering. Covid has killed so many more people than natural disasters in the last year but they won’t bother. They prefer to spread covid, not reduce the spread. 

[SeekingAdventure]

Well, working in a vaccine clinic would actually be helpful.

Also, aren't they against vaccination? Not sure right now, but a lot of fundies are..

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, SeekingAdventure said:

Well, working in a vaccine clinic would actually be helpful.

Also, aren't they against vaccination? Not sure right now, but a lot of fundies are..

I’m sure most trump supporting fundies are against the covid vaccine. Because if you look at statistics, trump supporters are reportedly much less likely to they the vaccine than non trump supporters. Even if they were not against vaccines before, they will all likely follow the trump cult mentality. 

[candygirl200413]

Lawson is already against the vaccine. Also you'd have to think that they love others truthfully and they don't. Would it have been nice? Totes, but the Bates/Duggars have shown time and time again they don't care about others especially in the pandemic.

[JermajestyDuggar]

42 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

Lawson is already against the vaccine. Also you'd have to think that they love others truthfully and they don't. Would it have been nice? Totes, but the Bates/Duggars have shown time and time again they don't care about others especially in the pandemic.

They just “help” after tornados and hurricanes because it makes for good publicity. And good selfies of course. Lawson would do anything for a good selfie. 

[Melissa1977]

9 hours ago, SeekingAdventure said:

Also, aren't they against vaccination? Not sure right now, but a lot of fundies are

Bates young couples vaccinate their children. They go to regular pediatricians (in addition to "alternative" therapies).

They may be against covid vax, but are ok with flu vax and others.

Not sure about Duggars. 

[CarrotCake]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

Bates young couples vaccinate their children. They go to regular pediatricians (in addition to "alternative" therapies).

They may be against covid vax, but are ok with flu vax and others.

Not sure about Duggars. 

JB&M vaccinated their children, there was an episode about some of them getting vaccinated.

But there are many people who are usually not anti-vaxx but are against covid-vax.

[Jackie3]

8 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Bates young couples vaccinate their children. They go to regular pediatricians (in addition to "alternative" therapies).

They may be against covid vax, but are ok with flu vax and others.

Not sure about Duggars. 

We really don't know if they "regularly" to pediatrician, or if they follow the recommended schedule for checkups and vaccines. They may show an occasional pediatrician visit here or there, but that doesn't reveal their true actions and feelings. 

[rebeccawriter01]

13 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

We really don't know if they "regularly" to pediatrician, or if they follow the recommended schedule for checkups and vaccines. They may show an occasional pediatrician visit here or there, but that doesn't reveal their true actions and feelings. 

They have been very careful not to reveal their practices and feelings regarding Gil and Kelly Jo's position on vaccinations and their children. On social media we see some of the adult children take their own babies and toddlers to the doctor. However, they don't seem to show anything very proactive. Such visits are typically in reaction to a recent illness or perceived issue. Only Carlin really shows pediatrician visits, but that is understandable with Layla's issue. 

I would assume that most of the grown children would probably be a little more proactive than their parents who seemed to only utilize healthcare for prenatal reasons and then went to the ER (per Gil's answer in that Nightline interview) for anything else. This would be true especially of Alyssa who suffered an issue with her heart that might have been picked up earlier (who knows?) if proactive and preventative care had been a regular thing growing up. Not saying that Alyssa's issue would have been picked up, but a normal person would question that when receiving the diagnosis even if just internally. 

We can assume that Michaela and Zach have received their vaccinations or received a waiver to attend a community college and the law enforcement academy. At last check Crown did not require verification of vaccinations for incoming students - one of the issues that prevents it from getting SACS accreditation.   

Addallee has her hearing loss issues, but they have remained largely silent on that until they worked it into the show. Given how they have twisted the truth numerous times on the show, I don't know how much credence I put into the whole Addy's been getting treatment all along story. My guess would be that she has since the show started bringing in money.

I would say that it would surprise me if all 19 children had received all vaccinations. IBLP doesn't mention such things on its website, but the references to health and healthcare have strong themes of parents trusting God and not seeking outside influence.  

The one area they concentrate on is dental and orthodontics. That is pretty standard for these IBLP families. Doesn't matter how poor - those teeth have to shine. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Esther is with Nathan in Breckenridge, Colorado. If they weren’t engaged before, they will be in Colorado. 

[Angelface]

21 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Esther is with Nathan in Breckenridge, Colorado. If they weren’t engaged before, they will be in Colorado. 

I was in Breckenridge again this time last year. It is such a charming and quaint little town and the scenery is stunning. I can’t wait for another visit once the pandemic is really over (probably in a year or two). I almost feel “how dare Nathan Bates” visit somewhere that is so special to me. Totally irrational I know but I’m going to plead “lockdown”! We haven’t been allowed to have anyone in our home since mid September and, even though I understand how deadly the virus can be and fully support and comply with the lockdown, the whole “Groundhog Day” experience is beginning to wear a little thin. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Angelface
Predictive text

[raayx01]

I bet they're having there Valentines party that they do every year. Those parties have sure gotten more lavish, the first few were at they're home, then they rented a cabin in the mountains, now out of state. How much money are the people earning, I swear everyone in this family Is always traveling or taking vacations.

[Italiangirl]

Yup I too think they are having an early I love you day, now also Katie and Travis have posted they are going there, maybe they fear Maci due date is too close to Valentine Day to risk doing the party nearer that date, or maybe some of the others family had other business to do around the 14 and the Bates preferred to anticipate the party. I'm pretty sure something will come out from this trip, too many people all together to just be a simple family vacation. 

[Johannah]

There’s no way Alyssa could fly to Colorado at 38 weeks pregnant 

[Melissa1977]

30 minutes ago, Johannah said:

There’s no way Alyssa could fly to Colorado at 38 weeks pregnant 

She is trying natural tricks to deliver early. I won't be surprise if she asks her doctor for an induced labor. She had the 3 girls in a birthing center but this one is being born in a hospital, so inducing is possible.

I understand her being fed up with the pregnancy and wishing an early labor. But she's been saying it since she was 36 weeks or less. She really needs patience. 

[VBOY9977]

1 minute ago, Melissa1977 said:

She is trying natural tricks to deliver early. I won't be surprise if she asks her doctor for an induced labor. She had the 3 girls in a birthing center but this one is being born in a hospital, so inducing is possible.

I understand her being fed up with the pregnancy and wishing an early labor. But she's been saying it since she was 36 weeks or less. She really needs patience. 

She said that she’s still throwing up constantly even up until her third trimester, she even had to go to the hospital recently for dehydration. My mom was similar, she threw up every day until she gave birth and was miserable. I don’t blame Alyssa for wanting to have some relief.

[rebeccawriter01]

Two or so years ago they started claiming they added a ski trip to Valentine's Day. One year they did it afterward and it was primarily the guys that went with Addy, Ellie, and Callie. They made it a point on the show (probably to stop everyone from speculating about the married girls not being as active as their brothers) that the married women sat around and said they weren't going or that they would only go if some of the other married sisters went too. I think one year John was the only in law or married person to attend and they were teasing him that he was too worried about getting hurt to do anything dangerous.  

I get that they may need to rent or use the church for a larger meeting space for family events. My extended family is huge and nobody can or will host everyone any longer. Too many kids, all the teens with boyfriends and girlfriends, and then the kids wanted to bring friends because they didn't "know" their cousins.

UP producers, if not the Bates, have noticed some of the comments about the extravagance though. We no longer see them shopping for gifts for their secret buddy because there are clearly piles and piles of gifts there. We no longer even see them opening said gifts for the same reason. In the old days the guys would cook and the parents would serve the kids. Last year it was catered. They used to dress in "church clothes" and now wear expensive costumes. They hire a photographer. They have contests with prizes that include $100 gift cards that last year they admitted everyone gets at least one of at some point. UP doesn't have that big of a budget so a good portion of that is coming from the family. 

My guess is that they will do their actual celebration there and then film a fake out for the show in the Knoxville area to "keep it real." 

Despite their frequent vacations, brand name clothes, etc., their brand is still thrifty (cheap) and folksy. They may be turning into the fundy version of the Kardashians, but they are still going to be filmed on the simple side of things.

[rebeccawriter01]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

She is trying natural tricks to deliver early. I won't be surprise if she asks her doctor for an induced labor. She had the 3 girls in a birthing center but this one is being born in a hospital, so inducing is possible.

I understand her being fed up with the pregnancy and wishing an early labor. But she's been saying it since she was 36 weeks or less. She really needs patience. 

I think she may simply be running out of things to say. She's positioned herself as being honest and transparent on social media, but is in a family that thinks pregnancy and child rearing are the be all and end all. At this point in her pregnancy, she's pretty limited on what she can say. She'll do the obligatory, "we can't wait to see her/hold her." Then there is the obligatory "I've washed all her clothes and we are so ready." She might do one with the other girls saying they are excited. But pretty much saying she is ready and hopes Maci comes early is about the only way she gets to put a little bit of snark in there about her own situation.

Not being able to have kids naturally myself, I can imagine that she is probably sick and tired of every single conversation being about the baby. Is this the last one? How are you feeling? Are you ready to give birth? When are you due? You look ready to pop? You are still so tiny. She may be ready to have a conversation with someone that is not baby related.  

Alyssa is probably the least in line with the family brand and message in many ways. Yes, she gets pregnant easily and stays at home with her kids, as well as presenting a pretty picture for church. However, she is the only one (Josie to a lesser extent) who complains at all about pregnancy and what it does to her physically. She and Josie (for other reasons) aren't like Erin, Tori, and Carlin who want an audience in the delivery room. 

I still find all of their beliefs and practices horrid, but I will give her a little slack for not keeping it 100% sweet.

[Tangy Bee]

2 hours ago, Johannah said:

There’s no way Alyssa could fly to Colorado at 38 weeks pregnant 

I sure wouldn't want that stress. It's winter for real in Colorado. Add in having to pack for yourself and 3 little kids....while still suffering from morning sickness. Do these people use a regular airlines or does Nathan fly them around if needed? If he does, I guess that takes the stress from having to wait in long lines and fly with strangers.

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

 

Alyssa is probably the least in line with the family brand and message in many ways. Yes, she gets pregnant easily and stays at home with her kids, as well as presenting a pretty picture for church. However, she is the only one (Josie to a lesser extent) who complains at all about pregnancy and what it does to her physically. She and Josie (for other reasons) aren't like Erin, Tori, and Carlin who want an audience in the delivery room. 

I still find all of their beliefs and practices horrid, but I will give her a little slack for not keeping it 100% sweet.

To me Alyssa is one of the ones most like her parents. She uses the exact same abusive baby training Gil and Kelly uses. She trains her daughters to be sister moms so she can have more time to herself. Education for Alyssa seems to be a lot like what her parents did, which was finding a system the parents loved with little concern about the best interest of the children. Kelly was never one to keep sweet and be passive. Kelly got the vacations and date nights she wanted.

The apple did not fall far from the tree with Alyssa, it just dresses nicer. 

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

To me Alyssa is one of the ones most like her parents. She uses the exact same abusive baby training Gil and Kelly uses. She trains her daughters to be sister moms so she can have more time to herself. Education for Alyssa seems to be a lot like what her parents did, which was finding a system the parents loved with little concern about the best interest of the children. Kelly was never one to keep sweet and be passive. Kelly got the vacations and date nights she wanted.

The apple did not fall far from the tree with Alyssa, it just dresses nicer. 

She's very much still a fundy and not a critical thinker. She's that coworker who wants to do something because that's the way it was always done (even when it doesn't work). I only mean that she lets that mask slip a little more frequently than Michaela or Erin. She clearly doesn't like being pregnant but keeps doing it because that's what she is supposed to do. It hasn't occurred to her to say no more.  

When all of her siblings came to visit for Allie's first birthday, you could see the cracks in the mask then. She sounded quite exasperated when she told her mom that the girls could stay and help but to get the boys out of the house. She's the one sister who seems to regard Carlin like I do with frustration. 

All of the girls have gotten that manipulative streak from their mother. But they all still say the right things when it comes to marriage (my husband is my best friend, never fight, etc.) and motherhood (surprised, another miracle/blessing, etc.) Alyssa says such lines, but she has a harder time hiding some of the frustration in her expression. The smile doesn't always reach the eyes. She can play John very well, but she's still not going to run out and get a 9-5 job and put the kids in daycare. She'll whine that they need a new house or to expand theirs, but she's still going pop a kid out every 14-18 months for now. 

I'd like to think that the reason Alyssa has refused to have her labor with any of the girls filmed is because she is back there swearing like a sailor and screaming at John that she will never do this again. Doubtful, but a good mental image. I just appreciate that at least she doesn't claim pregnancy is just a dream come true and that it can be tough, tiring, and overwhelming. I like the fact that when they did the reveal, you could see in her eyes that she was realizing that there was no way this would be the last with all that pink. 

By 2025 Allie will be cooking their meals and Lexie will be learning to sew. It's doubtful that it will break the cycle. I just like seeing a bit of the realness pop through. 

[nausicaa]

8 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

I sure wouldn't want that stress. It's winter for real in Colorado. Add in having to pack for yourself and 3 little kids....while still suffering from morning sickness. Do these people use a regular airlines or does Nathan fly them around if needed? If he does, I guess that takes the stress from having to wait in long lines and fly with strangers.

Also, having to buy winter gear for three kids is expensive and time consuming. 

I agree with others that the Bates girls can be very manipulative. But in their defense, Fundy culture doesn't leave most women much of a choice unless they're the 10% who actually love having tons of kids, being around others all the time, and always being bubbly and sweet. 

If I were stuck in that life I suspect I would act like Alyssa in some ways (with some more intellectual depth and educational rigor I like to think). Ever fecund help mates aren't left with many healthy communication options when acceptable lifestyle diversity is limited to how you like your coffee or Abeka versus wisdom booklets for your nine kids.