Meghan and Harry 3: Working Towards Financial Independence

[Four is Enough]

On 1/23/2020 at 1:06 PM, kachuu said:

** He nor William should have be forced as children to walk behind his mother's caskets in a public road in front of the public/WORLD. And I feel so strongly about this. 

Death is a part of life. I was going to funerals and viewings when I was five years old. At 12, Harry was certainly old enough to  perform his duty to walk behind his mother's cortege.

On 3/14/2020 at 4:31 PM, Beermeet said:

I was looking at the Royal family's IG and saw this gorgeous tiara. Wow!  I hadn't really considered how heavy some must be seeing as I've never held one. This one must be a big gun. Also, how do they keep these tiaras in place? I don't think bobby pins are going to cut it!  Look at It goes with their all about me posts. The other two show deference to the Queen and the people, not themselves.  Just sayin'. 

I once read something that pointed out the metal band below the tiaras. Generally there is a velvet piece around the bottom of the metal, which is the same color as the wearer's hair. Then the tiara is sewn somehow into the hair.  The velvet piece on the bottom of the tiara might be why tiaras aren't passed around too much. Too much trouble removing the color of velvet.

You can kind of see it here in Camilla's hair:

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Death is a part of life. I was going to funerals and viewings when I was five years old. At 12, Harry was certainly old enough to  perform his duty to walk behind his mother's cortege.

It is a part of life, but with all due respect I doubt the funerals and viewings you attended had every media, paparazzi, and camera in the world glued to you and putting your grief under a microscope.

Not all kids are the same and everyone grieves differently.  There should have been no consideration for the "duty" of children who had just lost their mom, the only thing their family should have been concerned with is the well being of those boys.

[tabitha2]

Wiliam and Harry were not forced to walk the procession. Their was a family discussion Phillip said he believed they would regret it later if they did not and he would walk with them. Guess  that was enough as They both adore and respect their grandad by all accounts.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Wiliam and Harry were not forced to walk the procession. Their was a family discussion Phillip said he believed they would regret it later if they did not and he would walk with them. Guess  that was enough as They both adore and respect their grandad by all accounts.  

I stand corrected.  I forgot we had a royal insider here who knows the details and motivations of everyone involved.   

[tabitha2]

It’s fact. To say they were forced By anyone or anything is inaccurate simple as that. Since do we not correct false information here? 

[FluffySnowball]

12 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

It’s fact. To say they were forced By anyone or anything is inaccurate simple as that. Since do we not correct false information here? 

I know that’s the official version. But I still wonder how much pressure was put on Harry and William.

From my - admittedly armchair psychological - opinion, letting the two children walk behind their mum’s coffin in such a public setting was wrong. It cannot be compared to funeral experiences of ordinary people. I do hope that William and Harry are at peace with how things went down, but when I just see photos of small, little Harry walking, it makes me sad.

And even regardless of this particular issue: What an ordeal to lose their mother so early. No kid should have to go through that. 

[Four is Enough]

17 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It is a part of life, but with all due respect I doubt the funerals and viewings you attended had every media, paparazzi, and camera in the world glued to you and putting your grief under a microscope.

Not all kids are the same and everyone grieves differently.  There should have been no consideration for the "duty" of children who had just lost their mom, the only thing their family should have been concerned with is the well being of those boys.

From my perspective, being with their family was of the utmost importance. And they were. 

1 hour ago, FluffySnowball said:

From my - admittedly armchair psychological - opinion, letting the two children walk behind their mum’s coffin in such a public setting was wrong. It cannot be compared to funeral experiences of ordinary people. I do hope that William and Harry are at peace with how things went down, but when I just see photos of small, little Harry walking, it makes me sad.

And even regardless of this particular issue: What an ordeal to lose their mother so early. No kid should have to go through that. 

I think about the children  I know who've lost their mothers, classmates of my children.  They were all devastated, and they were all with their families and friends, surrounded by love, which buoyed them up during the initial period to the burial.

There is no right or wrong way to grieve, but I do believe on that day, it would have been a mistake to leave William and Harry alone at the Palace with a nanny. There is a catharsis obtained from being surrounded by such an outpouring of grief. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

From my perspective, being with their family was of the utmost importance. And they were. 

My issue is that you said at 12 he was old enough to do his duty.  One, kids are all different and not every kid (or adult) would be able to handle that and two it is unconscionable to me that minors, with absolutely no say in the matter, have official duties to a monarchy or country or however people see it.  

I know there are a lot of advantages to being born into that golden cage, but the fact that kids are pressed into service and those in line for the thrown have their options for living their adult lives so limited is terrible.  As evidenced by the uproar Harry, who is not even closely in line, caused by making decisions based on what he and his wife want rather than what his family of origin prefers.  

Of course they should have been with their family, but that family certainly has enough recourses to have protected them from some of the public spectacle.  

15 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

It’s fact. To say they were forced By anyone or anything is inaccurate simple as that. Since do we not correct false information here? 

You're the only one speaking for the family as if you have first hand knowledge.  I am not saying the boys were forced, I don't know, but at their ages someone should have been looking out for them without worrying about how it would look or what duties are expected of them.  

[tabitha2]

Who was supposedly worrying?  I never heard anything about any of the boys relatives being at all concerned about that in this instance.

[Four is Enough]

22 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

My issue is that you said at 12 he was old enough to do his duty.  One, kids are all different and not every kid (or adult) would be able to handle that and two it is unconscionable to me that minors, with absolutely no say in the matter, have official duties to a monarchy or country or however people see it.  

Of course they should have been with their family, but that family certainly has enough recourses to have protected them from some of the public spectacle.  

Fair enough. But children of all ages and stages have a duty to their family, monarchy and paparazzi notwithstanding.  If there is a death in the family, the family structure and culture is there to inculcate the child. Not to mention, support, debrief, and comfort.

We simply disagree. When my grandmother died, we took the children, who were all under 11, to the viewing and funeral. And we began the teaching of how to behave and respond at a funeral.  This, to me, is the same as what Harry and William did, except they had the added burden (and I agree it is a burden) of the publicity. But they also had support.

ETA: this was not the first instance of H and W being in the public eye, either. They'd been trained from birth to be in public. Even a child learns to turn inward when strength or fortitude is needed.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Four is Enough

[viii]

19 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Frogmore Cottage has never belonged and will never belong to Harry and Meghan. It’s part of the Crown Estate. 

Frogmore Cottage is still the official residence of Harry and Meghan. It might be a part of the Crown estate, but it is their official UK home still, they privately paid for all the renovations (now), and they would be the ones agreeing to Eugenie and Jack living there.

18 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Wiliam and Harry were not forced to walk the procession. Their was a family discussion Phillip said he believed they would regret it later if they did not and he would walk with them. Guess  that was enough as They both adore and respect their grandad by all accounts.  

Both William and Harry have spoken out about how they should have never had to walk behind the casket, so I am going to lean towards the theory that yes, they were forced.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

53 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Who was supposedly worrying?  I never heard anything about any of the boys relatives being at all concerned about that in this instance.

I was referring to the poster who mentioned their duty.  If their duty was even part of the thought process that's wrong.  However, if they actually thought walking behind was best for the boys themselves and didn't care about how it looked then at least their intentions were noble.

I don't have royal family fan fic running through my head so I don't pretend to know the thinking behind why they do things.  

I do, however, have a deep and abiding distaste for the thinking that children owe anything to the monarchy just due to the accident of their birth.

54 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Fair enough. But children of all ages and stages have a duty to their family, monarchy and paparazzi notwithstanding.  If there is a death in the family, the family structure and culture is there to inculcate the child. Not to mention, support, debrief, and comfort.

We simply disagree. When my grandmother died, we took the children, who were all under 11, to the viewing and funeral. And we began the teaching of how to behave and respond at a funeral.  This, to me, is the same as what Harry and William did, except they had the added burden (and I agree it is a burden) of the publicity. But they also had support.

ETA: this was not the first instance of H and W being in the public eye, either. They'd been trained from birth to be in public. Even a child learns to turn inward when strength or fortitude is needed.

Agree to disagree.  And while I do agree that children need to learn how to deal with death in their family, I think it's so removed from doing so in front of billions of onlookers and having the footage out there for generations to come that I don't think it's a fair comparison.

[viii]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I don't have royal family fan fic running through my head so I don't pretend to know the thinking behind why they do things.  

????

[nokidsmom]

I remember when watching the funeral, feeling surprised to see William and Harry walking behind their mother's coffin.  I questioned it because of the publicity, with wailing crowds all along the route, if it was wise for them to be subjected to this.   

I don't know if they were "forced" to do it or not.  I know the official reason was they were not.   But given the strong inculcation of "duty" in the family my feeling is that perhaps they felt they had to, that saying "no" was not an option for them but at the same time nobody in the RF considered whether it was wise or appropriate seriously enough.

Just my take on it, but it may explain why Harry and William express their views now on why they shouldn't have done it.  Perhaps it was their feelings at the time but as young kids they didn't have the ability to really push that idea and they are surrounded by a family who prioritizes devotion to duty to their detriment.   

[viii]

I am not knowledgeable enough on state funerals, but is it tradition to walk miles behind the casket? If not, I am curious who came up with this terrible idea and insisted it was "duty". 

[Coconut Flan]

I was appalled at the time of the funeral and have never heard a good reason to change my mind.  As to the choice posted above of walking in the cortege or being alone in the palace with a nanny, I'm sure they had a myriad of other options that could have been considered.

[FluffySnowball]

4 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

There is no right or wrong way to grieve, but I do believe on that day, it would have been a mistake to leave William and Harry alone at the Palace with a nanny. There is a catharsis obtained from being surrounded by such an outpouring of grief. 

You’re absolutely right, William and Harry were right to attend the funeral. Sitting at home with a nanny wouldn’t have been the right call. Thus, I don’t take issue with that at all but think that was the right choice.

What I do take issue with is them walking behind the coffin. They should have arrived more shielded from the public, e.g. by a car to the church (back) entrance, with as little exposure to the crowd as possible, so they could have just focused on grieving and saying goodbye instead of also having to mind how they conducted themselves. 

When I watch videos of them walking behind the coffin, it’s eerie. The utter silence, the occasional sobs from the crowd and the cameras and photographers everywhere. I’d have been traumatized... 

Edited November 24, 2020 by FluffySnowball

[nokidsmom]

12 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

What I do take issue with is them walking behind the coffin. They should have arrived more shielded from the public, e.g. by a car to the church (back) entrance, with as little exposure to the crowd as possible, so they could have just focused on grieving and saying goodbye instead of also having to mind how they conducted themselves. 

Exactly my thoughts on this.  Certainly they had the right to participate in their mother's funeral but I thought it should have been in a more private way.    Given how the crowds were reacting, it seems they should have been more protected from that.   

 

[viii]

That would mess me up as an adult, even if death is a part of life. I can't imagine having to go through that as a child. No wonder William and Harry have both admitted they felt traumatized by it and advocate now for more privacy. 

[dharmapunk]

I don't think we will ever know if the boys wanted to walk behind their mother's coffin or not. Maybe that was what they were told to do an it never occurred to them to question it. When my father died I was a bit older than William at the time. I had not been to many funerals before an never to one where I was at the center of attention. On the day I just did as I was told: stand there, shake hands, then go sit over there until X finishes her speech, then get up and ... I felt mostly numb that day and in a way it was a relief to be told so clearly what was expected of me. I probably could not have figured it out myself and I would have hated to disappoint my family.

[viii]

4 minutes ago, dharmapunk said:

I don't think we will ever know if the boys wanted to walk behind their mother's coffin or not. 

They have both spoken out against it, saying it's something they should have never had to do. 

[dharmapunk]

3 minutes ago, viii said:

They have both spoken out against it, saying it's something they should have never had to do. 

I know they say that now and I don't disagree with them. What I was trying to say is, maybe they agreed to do it at the time, and now with hindsight, they think they should not have.

[viii]

7 minutes ago, dharmapunk said:

I know they say that now and I don't disagree with them. What I was trying to say is, maybe they agreed to do it at the time, and now with hindsight, they think they should not have.

Oh, yes, I am sure neither of them were comfortable as children to say anything against Prince Phillip. I do think (against better judgement) that they admire the man, and they were probably in a state of shock. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

23 minutes ago, viii said:

Oh, yes, I am sure neither of them were comfortable as children to say anything against Prince Phillip. I do think (against better judgement) that they admire the man, and they were probably in a state of shock. 

I think that's a nuance that can get lost in discussing family stuff, whether about the royals or anyone really.  You can admire someone, respect them, etc. without agreeing with everything they've done.

I love and respect my late father and admire him in many ways.  That doesn't mean I wasn't hurt by certain decisions he's made at times.  Family dynamics are complex and multi-faceted.

[Giraffe]

What 12 year old in a state of raging grief is going to think to question anyone’s suggestions? Imo to say either of them thought it was a good idea willingly went along with it, even if they agreed at the time, is remarkably ignorant of child development.  What else were they supposed to do? 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Giraffe
Not done talking