Dillards 81: Volunteering for God

[Belugaloo]

2 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

I really believe that it's not his place to VERY PUBLICLY label Jill as an abuse victim and share any insight into that experience. That seems opportunistic at best. That trauma is deeply personal, and only hers to tell, if she chooses.

The Dillards have socialized with Josh and Anna many times, Anna obviously has affection for Jill. Now there will be further estrangement for Jill.

Derick is pissed, probably righteously so, but this was just not necessarily the best course of action.

I believe Jill called herself a victim in the interview she and Jessa gave.... I recall a "we are victims... how can they do this to us" type of statement. If I'm remembering correctly, this would mean Derick is only repeating something Jill has already publicly stated, which is very different from him outing her as a victim before she publicly has chosen to do so. 

[Belugaloo]

I see some posts discussing discomfort over Dericks public comments and jills complete silence... some saying he's the headship it makes sense that hes the spokesperson, and others saying Jill might be very uncomfortable will Derick hurting her relationship with her family with all of his public comments when she isn't making any herself. 

 

Now, I know this is not a "secular" family we are discussing.. but I just think about this the way id think of any typical relationship. some people are outspoken. others are not. its a possibility that behind the scenes, Derick and Jill have many conversations that are not then repeated on twitter. its possible that jill will always prefer to keep a kind social media presence, never saying anything bad about anyone in her family or about the show. On the other hand, it is likely that Derick prefers to be outspoken. I think about this in the way I think of people quitting jobs: some make it very clear that they hate the company they are leaving, other keep a very cordial "I am grateful for my time here, and im excited for my new opportunity" tone, even if behind the scenes they want to punch their boss. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jill is the "I will miss everyone so much!" employee who is fucking thrilled to be leaving and Derick is the "fuck you demons for doing me wrong, I will make it known how awful you are" type of employee. 

 

with that in mind, I think most people (especially in my field) take the approach that employee A (Jill) is the better, professional employee and employee B (Derick) is unprofessional and his comments make him look bad. Personally, I don't agree with this. Ive known many a boss to have this mindset, but at the same time they were bad talking employee B and showing blatant favoritism to employee A. Employee B makes the company look bad, so they get a bad rap. Employee A might be well liked, but there is a downside to not speaking up as well. While ive been annoyed by Employee B types before, they do a good job of warning potential employees if there is something truly to be warned about. Sometimes employee B is just an entitled asshole and you can see right through their complaints. Sometimes they truly were treated wrong and you might dodge a bullet by hearing their comments.

 

All this too say.. I dont see anything inherently wrong with Jill and Derick having a different presence on social media. it could mean that Derick doesn't respect Jill and she doesnt want him saying these things. It could mean she and him simply have a different way of handling things and they both support each other completely. for all we know Jill has said " I really want to say these things but I dont want to publicly disrespect my family." and Derick has taken the good husband approach of being the bad guy while also letting jills side be told. we really dont know what they are saying behind closed doors.

[Exposedknees]

The math doesn't add up on Jill being shunned for her pants-wearing worldliness. I would argue that Jinger is far more worldly and is welcomed in Duggarland. Parents and gang have visited at multiple addresses. Derrick's headship decisions are driving the estrangement.

The disgusting thing is that Jill has no agency in her decisions or her body. JB, Josh, and Derrick have all exerted control over her.? 

And JB is in a TIGHT spot...if he can't stand the headship he handpicked for his muffin's sacred covanant marriage.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Exposedknees

[BernRul]

32 minutes ago, Exposedknees said:

The math doesn't add up on Jill being shunned for her pants-wearing worldliness. I would argue that Jinger is far more worldly and is welcomed in Duggarland. Parents and gang have visited at multiple addresses. Derrick's headship decisions are driving the estrangement.

The disgusting thing is that Jill has no agency in her decisions or her body. JB, Josh, and Derrick have all exerted control over her.? 

And JB is in a TIGHT spot...if he can't stand the headship he handpicked for his muffin's sacred covanant marriage.

Do we know that Jinger is welcomed? They live far but continue to put on a happy face for the cameras, while Derrick doesn't. But I suspect that Jinger and Jeremy might have been told a similar rule about not going to the TTH without adult supervision. Not about pants specifically, but about any perceived worldliness or believing the wrong kind of fundamentalism/Christianity. No, Jinger isn't "free", but she is living a life different from what JB approves of, and JB strikes me as a control freak and petty as hell. 

Also, I think the issue could have to do with seemingly rejecting QF as well. Jinger and Jill have both had less babies for God than they're supposed to. 

I think the difference is that Jinger and Jeremy are willing to publicly tow the party line for the sake of that sweet, sweet TLC money. Remember that awkward, tearful, forced moment where they address Jinger wearing pants as if she was a recovering crackhead? Jinger cries and praises Michelle.  It struck me as something Jinger was told to do to keep the family "brand." I think Jinger is still willing to be manipulated by her family  while Jill/Derrick aren't. So Jinger and Jeremy are less likely to air anything that will make the family look bad, and keep it to themselves. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by BernRul

[HerNameIsBuffy]

58 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

Anna obviously has affection for Jill. Now there will be further estrangement for Jill.

Anna's feeling have zero relevance in how Jill and her husband process her abuse.  And if him stating she was an abuse victim, which is very much on the record, causes further estrangement that why isn't that a good thing?

If you avoid estrangement by not speaking of the unspeakable that's catering to the predator.  Anna is married to a sexual predator and her denial isn't something anyone should humor for even a moment.

I agree it's Jill's story to tell, but she was okay with what he said then he had a right to say it.  We have no idea if she was, but no reason to believe she's opposed to his statements either.

[Exposedknees]

@BernRulI'm not saying that Jinger is free, but that she and Jill are equally worldly. Jinger is still welcomed. Michelle goes for Felicity's birth. The Duggar clan hauled all the way out to Cali to visit. It's all about trying to be

" Break out stars!" Smug Jeremy has either parlayed his own contract with TLC or is smart enough to "keep sweet" and get TV "fame." I feel like Jeremy has an different agenda. He wants reality TV  to morph into an Osteen type " ministry".

[Belugaloo]

5 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Anna's feeling have zero relevance in how Jill and her husband process her abuse.  And if him stating she was an abuse victim, which is very much on the record, causes further estrangement that why isn't that a good thing?

If you avoid estrangement by not speaking of the unspeakable that's catering to the predator.  Anna is married to a sexual predator and her denial isn't something anyone should humor for even a moment.

I agree it's Jill's story to tell, but she was okay with what he said then he had a right to say it.  We have no idea if she was, but no reason to believe she's opposed to his statements either.

I agree. I think the persistent statements that Jill doesnt have a voice and Derick is controlling her and by speaking out against her family she is being isolated is very condescending and demeaning. Jill is a person who has spoken out on more than one occasion about some type of "you are an independent adult, act like it" in reference to her marriage. Jill doesnt need to come out and say fuck everyone who raised me. Hell, if she did, wed probably criticize her for some reason. Jill has a voice and she has had a lot of opportunities to question and re evaluate. we have no reason to believe that Derick has absolute control and she is miserable. 

[BernRul]

4 minutes ago, Exposedknees said:

@BernRulI'm not saying that Jinger is free, but that she and Jill are equally worldly. Jinger is still welcomed. Michelle goes for Felicity's birth. The Duggar clan hauled all the way out to Cali to visit. It's all about trying to be

" Break out stars!" Smug Jeremy has either parlayed his own contract with TLC or is smart enough to "keep sweet" and get TV "fame." I feel like Jeremy has an different agenda. He wants reality TV  to morph into an Osteen type " ministry".

I'm not saying that you were, just that we don't know that Jinger isn't getting some shade from the family. Jill hasn't been completely disowned. According to Derrick (if he's being completely honest, I do happen to believe him in this at least) he and Jill can't go visit the family without JB being present. That means that they are still allowed to visit, hence not disowned, hence still see the family from time to time. I think that's probably true for Jinger and Jeremy too. Michelle being there at the birth and them visiting the Vuolos doesn't disprove that. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by BernRul

[seraaa]

4 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

I can't really fault Derrick too much for not questioning things sooner. Its not easy coming in as an outsider and learning the family dynamic and hidden drama (especially in a family so large). My own in-laws have this sort of open secret of how my MIL and FIL came to be divorced and how my FIL ended up with my SMIL in another state and it took me several years to get some vague details. It was pretty scandalous from what I've gathered but its all been pretty much swept under the rug and what I've learned came from the other "outsiders". Not even my husband knew/knows how everything went down- its just something that was not talked about in the family and my husband didn't think to question it because that's how its always been since he was a very small baby. My husband is also afraid of stirring up drama if he tries to ask about it and doesn't want to bring up something that might be painful. So I guess its just very easy for me to believe that both Jill and Derrick were kept in the dark about a lot of things and its taken time for the details to slowly emerge and for them to gain the courage to push back and question things.

I really do think, also, that there is a big difference between knowing something in your head and feeling mentally and emotionally ready to do something about it. Derick and Jill are doing something about it now. And it looks messy, but that's probably normal?

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

Maybe Derick is pursuing a law degree for the express purpose of taking on TLC and Jim Bob.  I know that’s very far out there, but maybe?

[bella8050]

Personally I am just surprised if Jill is ok with the idea of going scorched earth with her siblings in order to publicly out JB and TLC. If she is then she's broken free more than I thought. I can see Derick being fine with it but of course he didn't grow up with/raise them the way Jill did. That seems like a huge step for Jill. Maybe she's been preparing for it and will completely surprise me by co authoring this book Derick wants to write. Till then I'm gonna remain a little skeptical.

 

[lil_secret]

2 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

you have to wonder if Derick would have been quite happy to let TLC air the footage and continue the relationship.

I def wouldn’t put it past him. Sadly. I feel for Jill so much. 

[HermioneSparrow]

Jim Bob (and the whole family) visited J&J in Cali recently, JB is obviously not stranged from them. I think it's because they're willing to play his game because it benefits them. It's not necessarily the aesthetic changes, but more like the questioning he might be getting from Jill and Derick while Jinger in pants is still towing the party line.

[mstee]

I think Michelle plays a role in this, too. She and Jinger seem to have a very close relationship, and they probably have had heart to hearts about Jinger’s changes (as evidenced by the discussion on counting on). Jill, on the other hand, may have made the changes without selling Michelle on them, causing a rift. Jill always seemed closer to JB, too. Michelle may not like how Jeremy lives and the decisions he makes as Jinger’s headship, but I’m sure she doesn’t mind that he stays in line with the family’s brand and that may be the most important difference. I think that Michelle has more control behind the scenes than she leads on. 

[SassyPants]

49 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

Maybe Derick is pursuing a law degree for the express purpose of taking on TLC and Jim Bob.  I know that’s very far out there, but maybe?

I think those elements very much contributed to his decision.

And this has to be more about JB than TLC not paying Sam’s Nicu bills. In the almost 2.5 years since Sam’s birth and the bills associated, the Dillards have purchased a new home, traveled and added law school costs, all without any real, steady income. These are certainly not the behaviors of a young couple hurting for money or living debt free. I’d say someone  ( likely JB and M Trust LLC) has done a payout to the Dillards , and if that’s the case, DD should just move on. He clearly has the skills needed to live comfortably in AR . It’s not NYC, plus they Dillards appear low needs. Do the Duggars suck? Yep. Does DD need to be a bigger man, YEP. Life isn’t fair. DD is fully capable of supporting his family. In this regard, his parents did a better job -

[neuroticcat]

2 hours ago, Exposedknees said:

The math doesn't add up on Jill being shunned for her pants-wearing worldliness. I would argue that Jinger is far more worldly and is welcomed in Duggarland. Parents and gang have visited at multiple addresses. Derrick's headship decisions are driving the estrangement.

The disgusting thing is that Jill has no agency in her decisions or her body. JB, Josh, and Derrick have all exerted control over her.? 

And JB is in a TIGHT spot...if he can't stand the headship he handpicked for his muffin's sacred covanant marriage.

I think it has very little to do with pants and outward changes. Maybe it started there or with trying to prevent worldliness creeping in, but I think it has way more to do with challenging authoritarian parenting and the IBLP cult principles. 

They have been taught since childhood that IBLP is Gospel and all the authoritarian crap that comes with that. To suggest there is a different way to be Christian - whether that’s not home-churching or maybe being friend with Catholics and realizing they’re not “lost” or questioning quiverfull - these are threatening because they threaten JBs and Michelle’s authority which is the greatest evil in IBLP cult and to a narcissistic parent.

  I think it’s the fact that they are publicly setting my boundaries, not at every family event, saying no to the show, etc. I think the response to that kind of adult-child independence from narcissistic parents is shunning. Jinger and Jeremy are separated by distance so it’s less obvious if they are defying JB and M authority. Maybe they are. Maybe not since they are still pretty much aligned with that kind of thinking a la Masters Seminary. And I think Jeremy is smoother at making it look like they are respectful while doing whatever they want. They can visit and smile and nod and then go back to LA and their own contract and be influencers. It’s less obvious to the other children how they’re living because they’re not around. 

But if The Dillards are absent when they only live 20 minutes away it says something significant. 

[Twirling Dervish]

4 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

It's likely the opposite since much of the time as a lawyer, your answer is "maybe."

Actually, in my 25 year career as an attorney, I would never tell a client, judge or jury "maybe." Liklihood of winning, sure, but maybe wouldn't have been acceptable at my firm. I am old school, however, and  forever grateful to be done with all of that.

[carmenp97]

7 hours ago, BernRul said:

Also, I refuse to believe that Josh's sister victims aren't dealing with extreme trauma from their CSA, especially when they didn't get therapy and were forced to be nice to their abuser. JB and Michelle sure did try to downplay the abuse, and get the girls to downplay it. Even if they haven't fully processed it, the victims still feel it. Maybe Jill is just now starting to process what happened to her. Maybe that's why Derrick is more vocal now: because his wife is finally processing her abuse, and he sees how fucked up both TLC and JB are for the way they handled it.

They aren’t just dealing with the childhood sexual abuse. ALL the Duggar children, and probably most children from fundamental families, are survivors of emotional abuse, at least, and probable verbal and physical abuse. Derdick is indeed a douchecanoe, but he is worldly and somewhat educated enough to realize that his wife has been abused on multiple levels by a number of people. 

[Idlewild]

So what do we think the fallout from this will be? TLC cut them loose as they are wary of further scandals emerging? Jeremy on the phone trying to secure some exclusive interview deals to steal Derricks thunder? Or the Duggars doing their usual trick of ignoring it and announcing a courtship to throw people off the scent? 

Comments on Jana’s latest Instagram post appear to be closed after people started asking about Jill.

[BernRul]

23 minutes ago, carmenp97 said:

They aren’t just dealing with the childhood sexual abuse. ALL the Duggar children, and probably most children from fundamental families, are survivors of emotional abuse, at least, and probable verbal and physical abuse. Derdick is indeed a douchecanoe, but he is worldly and somewhat educated enough to realize that his wife has been abused on multiple levels by a number of people. 

 

It's also not about being worldly. A lot of secular and liberal people don't know how to deal with sexual abuse. It's not something that's really talked about in polite society and media. I mean, look at all the people who say that Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck are selfish liars because they used to defend Michael Jackson. 

Derrick may or may not have believed the family lie when the scandal first broke out, and may have believed Jill's public spin that "it wasn't a big deal/lots of families deal with this."  I think it's possible that both he and Jill are processing it differently now. I can't really fault any person, no matter how dickish, for speaking up eventually, even if they hadn't before.

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by BernRul

[ariel9]

Yes it is true that Derrick is a dickbag, but he was also a grieving young person that fell victim to a cult. The newcomers to cults are usually the most overzealous. During this phase, he then met fellow cult member Jill. One of the suspicions that us FJers have is that couples do not fully get to know one another during these short courtships. Jill has only been fed IBLP her entire life. She does not know much about herself outside of that because independent thought (let’s be real Derrick does not know anything outside of the norms of being a white male in the south)was discouraged. Jill and Derrick did not get to have conversations in private prior to marriage. Would Jill have been afforded the chance to recognize and tell her partner that she was the abuse victim? This is kind of how IBLP works, things move so fast you do not have the time to question. 

As for Derrick the dickbag, everyone has a threshold. Most sane people initially begin with the intent of leading a cordial life with their in-laws however intent does not translate to reality. I think Derrick may have reached his breaking point. Everyone has the right to be paid for fair work.Everyone on this forum thinks the JB is a terrible man, now imagine actually knowing him.

Although JB is a crappy individual, there is a way to play to win. Unfortunately, airing grievances on social media is not the smartest but I get that is what some people do when they are frustrated. The longer term plan of going to law school to take down JB unfortunately is not really worth it (unless always he wanted to go for non vindictive reasons).Lawyers are not created equally. Someone fresh from law school is not a match for an experienced corporate lawyer. Additionally, his previous degree in accounting had a decent amount of earning potential. He did not have to take on the debt of law school. Seeing as this is how it is now, Jill is saddled with the domestic tasks. Unfortunately domestic tasks are all Jill has been prepared to do because character traits do not translate into careers. 
 

As for the Vuolos, JB can better control their exposure to his underage children. They do not run the risks of the Vuolos coming around unannounced because they live out of state hence have to do more planning to get nearby. Also have any of the TTH dwellers been out to California without the parents (Texas doesn’t count because it is good and holy because there are no evil gays and liberals)? 

[JenniferJuniper]

35 minutes ago, ariel9 said:

As for the Vuolos, JB can better control their exposure to his underage children. They do not run the risks of the Vuolos coming around unannounced because they live out of state hence have to do more planning to get nearby. 

Exactly.  Jeremy probably made it clear that he had no intention of ever living in the Mid-South, so Jim Bob doesn't have to worry too much about Jinger's trousers putting evil thoughts into the minds of her little sisters.  And so far, Jeremy has played nice with TLC, so that's all good.

The two things that concern JB the most are 1) Complete control over his family, and 2) Continuing to make money off the Duggar brand.   Derick was a threat to both, so off with his head.   Jilly Muffin was collateral damage, and if Derick is being honest, it appears her parents can live with that.  

[apandaaries]

5 hours ago, ariel9 said:

Yes it is true that Derrick is a dickbag, but he was also a grieving young person that fell victim to a cult. The newcomers to cults are usually the most overzealous. During this phase, he then met fellow cult member Jill. One of the suspicions that us FJers have is that couples do not fully get to know one another during these short courtships. Jill has only been fed IBLP her entire life. She does not know much about herself outside of that because independent thought (let’s be real Derrick does not know anything outside of the norms of being a white male in the south)was discouraged. Jill and Derrick did not get to have conversations in private prior to marriage. Would Jill have been afforded the chance to recognize and tell her partner that she was the abuse victim? This is kind of how IBLP works, things move so fast you do not have the time to question. 

As for Derrick the dickbag, everyone has a threshold. Most sane people initially begin with the intent of leading a cordial life with their in-laws however intent does not translate to reality. I think Derrick may have reached his breaking point. Everyone has the right to be paid for fair work.Everyone on this forum thinks the JB is a terrible man, now imagine actually knowing him.

Although JB is a crappy individual, there is a way to play to win. Unfortunately, airing grievances on social media is not the smartest but I get that is what some people do when they are frustrated. The longer term plan of going to law school to take down JB unfortunately is not really worth it (unless always he wanted to go for non vindictive reasons).Lawyers are not created equally. Someone fresh from law school is not a match for an experienced corporate lawyer. Additionally, his previous degree in accounting had a decent amount of earning potential. He did not have to take on the debt of law school. Seeing as this is how it is now, Jill is saddled with the domestic tasks. Unfortunately domestic tasks are all Jill has been prepared to do because character traits do not translate into careers. 
 

As for the Vuolos, JB can better control their exposure to his underage children. They do not run the risks of the Vuolos coming around unannounced because they live out of state hence have to do more planning to get nearby. Also have any of the TTH dwellers been out to California without the parents (Texas doesn’t count because it is good and holy because there are no evil gays and liberals)? 

I agree with so much of this. I’m still hoping that derick wanted to be a lawyer for other reasons than suing TLC, cuz his puny ass couldn’t handle their attorneys. We shall see.

I’ve also been pondering Jeremy v Derick. As shitty as he is, Derick seems to want Jill to have friends, interests, education, etc, outside of his realm. Jeremy seems to love Jinger as a prop. He seems like he’d support her taking photography, cooking, or art classes, but wouldn’t support more intellectual pursuits. Derick seems different — editing Jill’s essays and celebrating her (rather worthless whatever) midwifery certification. 
Derick is still a transphobic bully, but I’m slowly gaining some hope for the Dillards. This is great, because I love Sam’s crazy smiles. I hope he and Izzy have all the best shots at life.

[raspberrymint]

All very interesting.  I won't have "hope" for Derick unless he posts something where he apologizes to Jazz or otherwise retracts his own bigoted statements.  The enemy of the enemy is not necessarily my friend.  I don't care for a guy who would almost certainly beat up his own babies if they turned out to be like Jazz, and Jill is an idiot.  Putting toddlers on top of a car and driving is idiotic.  Blah.  I don't like them, but the drama is interesting and I'm curious but not optimistic about where it leads.  I think Derick just wants money.

[BullyJBG]

Here's an idea for the next thread; The Dillards; The Truth Will Set You Free. Or The Dillards: Slowly Letting the Truth Speak For Itself. Whoever starts these threads, have fun with that,