Some things that had taken me too long to understand

[fundiefan]

“One of the obstacles to recognizing chronic mistreatment in relationships is that most abusive men simply don’t seem like abusers. They have many good qualities, including times of kindness, warmth, and humor, especially in the early period of a relationship. An abuser’s friends may think the world of him. He may have a successful work life and have no problems with drugs or alcohol. He may simply not fit anyone’s image of a cruel or intimidating person. So when a woman feels her relationship spinning out of control, it is unlikely to occur to her that her partner is an abuser.”

That book - this is a quote that defines my ex husband and the world we were both in. Ten years later, I still get twisted and sick feeling when I think too much about how totally "shocked" our friends & family were when I filed for divorce from such an awesome, wonderful, funny, fun, caring man. It was so bad in the beginning that my sister & her husband "sided" with him. It took me several years to get out once the truth started seeping in. I couldn't acknowledge it because of the constant push-pull I had learned to live with to the extent it was engrained in me. 

My ex wasn't physically abusive at all til after I filed for divorce and his control was unquestionably removed. Even then, it took one time and the lawyers put a stop to it and he was too scared. So he played serious mind games and set out to destroy my mental health and my relationships and how others viewed me - and he almost succeeded. In some ways he actually did as many friendships from those days died dead at the onset because he "won". And he let me know, as often as possible, that he "won". He loved to throw at me how he was at my sister's house or out with her husband or hanging with our friends who were now his friends, For a long time, I didn't know up from down and didn't trust anyone and pulled away from everyone because I couldn't risk it. 

I may have moved on but I think my self esteem and trust are permanetly bruised from life with him. I am no longer with him, but the effects of having been with him are still with me. 

 

 

 

[Caroline]

19 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

“One of the obstacles to recognizing chronic mistreatment in relationships is that most abusive men simply don’t seem like abusers. They have many good qualities, including times of kindness, warmth, and humor, especially in the early period of a relationship. An abuser’s friends may think the world of him. He may have a successful work life and have no problems with drugs or alcohol. He may simply not fit anyone’s image of a cruel or intimidating person. So when a woman feels her relationship spinning out of control, it is unlikely to occur to her that her partner is an abuser.”

That book - this is a quote that defines my ex husband and the world we were both in. Ten years later, I still get twisted and sick feeling when I think too much about how totally "shocked" our friends & family were when I filed for divorce from such an awesome, wonderful, funny, fun, caring man. It was so bad in the beginning that my sister & her husband "sided" with him. It took me several years to get out once the truth started seeping in. I couldn't acknowledge it because of the constant push-pull I had learned to live with to the extent it was engrained in me. 

My ex wasn't physically abusive at all til after I filed for divorce and his control was unquestionably removed. Even then, it took one time and the lawyers put a stop to it and he was too scared. So he played serious mind games and set out to destroy my mental health and my relationships and how others viewed me - and he almost succeeded. In some ways he actually did as many friendships from those days died dead at the onset because he "won". And he let me know, as often as possible, that he "won". He loved to throw at me how he was at my sister's house or out with her husband or hanging with our friends who were now his friends, For a long time, I didn't know up from down and didn't trust anyone and pulled away from everyone because I couldn't risk it. 

I may have moved on but I think my self esteem and trust are permanetly bruised from life with him. I am no longer with him, but the effects of having been with him are still with me. 

 

 

 

Your story is so horribly sad and unfair.  My mother was married to an abuser, but the obvious kind: drunk and angry with a touch of undiagnosed PTSD from WW2 (my opinion only).  It was way easier for her to tell her family what was going on, but still not easy if you know what I mean.  Fortunately, he left  when I was quite young before he could inflict any more damage, and that was the kindest thing he could have done.  I'm so sorry you've endured so much.  

[fundiefan]

11 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Your story is so horribly sad and unfair.  My mother was married to an abuser, but the obvious kind: drunk and angry with a touch of undiagnosed PTSD from WW2 (my opinion only).  It was way easier for her to tell her family what was going on, but still not easy if you know what I mean.  Fortunately, he left  when I was quite young before he could inflict any more damage, and that was the kindest thing he could have done.  I'm so sorry you've endured so much.  

I come from a long line of violent, alcoholic men, and women who chose them. My grandfather was a monster. My mom's husband, my aunt's ex husband - all abusive alcoholics. That is, in part, why my family was so "shocked" when I divorced - he never hit me, his abuse wasn't outwardly violent - - - that is their belief of abuse. They still don't really get it, but I learned through all this that it doesn't matter what they, or anyone else, thinks. 

I didn't tell my situation for sympathy - honest. It was more a way to show how damaging years with emotional control, abuse and manipulation affect you forever. Just because you find a way to live with it, doesn't make it acceptable or "not so bad" or anything else. It is what it is, abuse. And no one deserves it, should tolerate it or excuse it. Of course, I know how women learn to live with it and I understand - I did it. You do what you can to survive and I don't look down on anyone who doesn't move on. But, I do think everyone who is in an abusive situation of any kind of any degree needs to know that others have walked in their shoes and gotten out and survived. To know there is support, even if it's not directly in front of you. I didn't have a lot of support other than online friends in the beginning. Some I knew well, some I didn't. But, they were there and saved me in more ways than I could ever express. I just want people to know we're out here. 

[Anna T]

1 hour ago, fundiefan said:

I come from a long line of violent, alcoholic men, and women who chose them. My grandfather was a monster. My mom's husband, my aunt's ex husband - all abusive alcoholics. That is, in part, why my family was so "shocked" when I divorced - he never hit me, his abuse wasn't outwardly violent - - - that is their belief of abuse. They still don't really get it, but I learned through all this that it doesn't matter what they, or anyone else, thinks. 

I didn't tell my situation for sympathy - honest. It was more a way to show how damaging years with emotional control, abuse and manipulation affect you forever. Just because you find a way to live with it, doesn't make it acceptable or "not so bad" or anything else. It is what it is, abuse. And no one deserves it, should tolerate it or excuse it. Of course, I know how women learn to live with it and I understand - I did it. You do what you can to survive and I don't look down on anyone who doesn't move on. But, I do think everyone who is in an abusive situation of any kind of any degree needs to know that others have walked in their shoes and gotten out and survived. To know there is support, even if it's not directly in front of you. I didn't have a lot of support other than online friends in the beginning. Some I knew well, some I didn't. But, they were there and saved me in more ways than I could ever express. I just want people to know we're out here. 

Thank you so much for sharing. It really means the world to hear from women who have been through the same thing and survived. I hope you will continue to heal from the damage he afflicted.

One thing I can say for my friends and family is that those people who are close to me know what is going on and have repeatedly urged me to file for divorce. 

[MamaJunebug]

On 11/30/2019 at 12:41 PM, Anna T said:

I have just reread this thread because I was having a low moment and felt like I needed a pick-me-up. I was blown away once again by all the comments and support!

Today, I have unearthed a popular book, by a very well-known Orthodox rabbi, written for women and meaning to serve as something like a general guide to everything from spiritual growth, marriage, raising children, finances, and more. 

I have clung to this book as if to a lifeline for years, and there are some bits of advice that could probably be useful to women in marriages that can be defined as problematic but not abusive. But now I'm looking at it with new eyes, and I see three threads running through the book which are EXTREMELY problematic for women in emotionally abusive relationships: 

1. The book asserts time and time again that it is not good for women to have deep and meaningful relationships with other women. Why? Because "your husband is supposed to be your only friend" and because of the "unhealthy comparisons" that arise when women are discussing their marriages. He actually goes as far as to say explicitly that when a woman tells about how wonderful her husband is, she puts bitterness and resentment into the heart of her friend, who "has been accepting her husband's angry behavior with love" and now won't put up with it anymore! 

Crucial step to abuse: isolate the victim. This is especially destructive if the victim didn't get to see a model of a good marriage while growing up. She has no way to compare. 

2. Any suffering in marriage is claimed to be part of one's "tikkun" (essentially, one's spiritual growth intended to correct one's flaws) and "deserved for one's sins". Ergo: we get glorification and spiritualization of suffering. I wonder how this would apply to being sick or broke. Are we not supposed to go to the doctor or look for a job? 

3. There's this principle which essentially states that we deserve a certain amount of suffering, and if it manifests in marriage and the woman gets divorced, the suffering will just transfer into other areas of her life (like liquid in joined vessels). And it will be worse for daring to kick back! He gives all kinds of awful examples, like women who got divorced but then got through hell raising their children on their own. So: deterministic thinking intended to make the victim despair of ever actually ending the suffering. 

Bottom line:

- Keep victim isolated 

- Assure her that she is suffering "for the glory of God" 

- Drill into her head that there's no actual escape

What a perfect recipe for perpetuating abusive patterns. I have no idea why it took me so long to see this. I feel so betrayed on part of myself and who knows how many other women who have fallen prey to this philosophy. 

Anna, would you mind sharing the title of this book? You can PM me if you prefer... many thanks.

[Anna T]

3 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Anna, would you mind sharing the title of this book? You can PM me if you prefer... many thanks.

Not at all! On the contrary, I think that the more people are aware of the dangers of this book, the better. It's Be-Gan HaShalom ("In the garden of peace") for women by Rabbi Shalom Arush. There's also a version for men but I haven't read it.

I am now connecting with a few other victims of this book's misguided advice, and they agree with me about its dangerous and destructive nature. 

[MamaJunebug]

Anna, many thanks. 

[AliceInFundyland]

I too want to add a note of encouragement to you Anna.

I hadn't come across your blog or story until recently. I've been here at FJ for some time now. I share a few things in common with you and other members.

I too had an emotionally/psychologically abusive ex. For far too long. Not physical - - - except for those moments where I was like wtf are you doing? You're not being safe?? He tended to put himself in dangerous positions.

Not really my point.

I'm so pleased that it gives you strength to have found us. We squabble and bicker about our snarking and the effects of our words on the people who we discuss.

It's incredibly heartening to have you here and have your voice join us.

I am glad to see you here. Very sincerely.

[Eponine]

@Anna T - You mentioned the lack of resources available to Orthodox Jewish women in domestic abuse situations, so I wanted to leave a few links for you. It's fairly likely you've seen these already, but I figured I'd share just in case!

I work with groups of young Orthodox Jewish women in the New York/New Jersey area who are pursuing careers and education. Although I don't work with them in a counselor/social worker capacity or anything like that, I have often had discussions with women who are trying to figure out how to leave their home situation, for various reasons. So I've had some opportunities to look for domestic abuse resources specifically for women in these communities, however not in any official capacity.

Project S.A.R.A.H. is based in New Jersey, but it's a pretty well-known organization and might have information about resources in Israel: http://jfsclifton.org/projectsarah/

The Shalom Taskforce is based in NYC but has educational resources and might also be able to help with resources in Israel: https://www.shalomtaskforce.org/

Bat Melech is an organization in Israel and I would bet they have a lot of local info: https://www.batmelech.org/?lang=en

This is a paper written for social workers who work with the Orthodox community in Chicago, it's a little old but has some reading and resources at the bottom, and the paper contains some best-practices and good ideas for discussing domestic abuse individually and as a community: https://ssa.uchicago.edu/american-orthodox-jewish-women-and-domestic-violence-intervention-design

And some references from Brandeis University's Jewish Studies program relating to domestic violence - many of these look like they would be great and helpful reading: https://www.brandeis.edu/projects/fse/pdfs/jewishwomenviolence.pdf

And others:

https://sanctuaryforfamilies.org/program-spotlight-helping-orthodox-jewish-women-escape-abuse/

https://jewishaction.com/family/marriage/review-of-the-shame-bourne-in-silence-spouse-abuse-in-the-jewish-community/

I hope this helps, or at least gives some reading to inspire you and give you strength!

 

[Anna T]

4 hours ago, Eponine said:

@Anna T - You mentioned the lack of resources available to Orthodox Jewish women in domestic abuse situations, so I wanted to leave a few links for you. It's fairly likely you've seen these already, but I figured I'd share just in case!

I work with groups of young Orthodox Jewish women in the New York/New Jersey area who are pursuing careers and education. Although I don't work with them in a counselor/social worker capacity or anything like that, I have often had discussions with women who are trying to figure out how to leave their home situation, for various reasons. So I've had some opportunities to look for domestic abuse resources specifically for women in these communities, however not in any official capacity.

Project S.A.R.A.H. is based in New Jersey, but it's a pretty well-known organization and might have information about resources in Israel: http://jfsclifton.org/projectsarah/

The Shalom Taskforce is based in NYC but has educational resources and might also be able to help with resources in Israel: https://www.shalomtaskforce.org/

Bat Melech is an organization in Israel and I would bet they have a lot of local info: https://www.batmelech.org/?lang=en

This is a paper written for social workers who work with the Orthodox community in Chicago, it's a little old but has some reading and resources at the bottom, and the paper contains some best-practices and good ideas for discussing domestic abuse individually and as a community: https://ssa.uchicago.edu/american-orthodox-jewish-women-and-domestic-violence-intervention-design

And some references from Brandeis University's Jewish Studies program relating to domestic violence - many of these look like they would be great and helpful reading: https://www.brandeis.edu/projects/fse/pdfs/jewishwomenviolence.pdf

And others:

https://sanctuaryforfamilies.org/program-spotlight-helping-orthodox-jewish-women-escape-abuse/

https://jewishaction.com/family/marriage/review-of-the-shame-bourne-in-silence-spouse-abuse-in-the-jewish-community/

I hope this helps, or at least gives some reading to inspire you and give you strength!

 

Wow! Thank you so much for these resources. I was unfamiliar with them all except for Bat Melech, with whom I had been in contact some time ago, and who unfortunately don't offer much help except shelters for abused women - which is crucial for those suffering physical assault, but largely useless to women who suffer the assault on their souls and personhood, not their bodies. 

13 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I too want to add a note of encouragement to you Anna.

I hadn't come across your blog or story until recently. I've been here at FJ for some time now. I share a few things in common with you and other members.

I too had an emotionally/psychologically abusive ex. For far too long. Not physical - - - except for those moments where I was like wtf are you doing? You're not being safe?? He tended to put himself in dangerous positions.

Not really my point.

I'm so pleased that it gives you strength to have found us. We squabble and bicker about our snarking and the effects of our words on the people who we discuss.

It's incredibly heartening to have you here and have your voice join us.

I am glad to see you here. Very sincerely.

Thank you so much for your support!! ♥ 

[Eponine]

16 hours ago, Anna T said:

Wow! Thank you so much for these resources. I was unfamiliar with them all except for Bat Melech, with whom I had been in contact some time ago, and who unfortunately don't offer much help except shelters for abused women - which is crucial for those suffering physical assault, but largely useless to women who suffer the assault on their souls and personhood, not their bodies.

I'm not familiar with Bat Melech, but many of the groups in my area can offer advice or sometimes even help find local resources for women elsewhere. It might be worth it to contact some organizations abroad and see whether they have any information for you. NYC-area Orthodox communities often have strong ties to ones in Israel (others do too, probably, but I don't have experience with them). At the very least, they probably have some books or articles that might be helpful. Good luck, I'm hoping for the best for you!!

[Anna T]

Just a little update on how I'm doing: by now, I have finished reading Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft twice. This book has become my friend. It has laid out everything so plainly I can never get confused again. It turns out I'm living with a man who fits three separate behavioral patterns: The Demand Man, Mr Always Right, and Water Torturer (kind of self explanatory, I think). It was such a bitter pill to swallow but now I know what I'm dealing with. 

I'm also bringing more friends into the loop because I really need a support network right now and to make it as large as I can. Everyone who knows what I'm going through, including my mom, says I would be justified in leaving. The question remains whether it will be in my and my children's best interests. I'm certainly not rushing into anything, but just knowing that I have options and people standing behind me is very empowering. 

[Caroline]

1 hour ago, Anna T said:

Just a little update on how I'm doing: by now, I have finished reading Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft twice. This book has become my friend. It has laid out everything so plainly I can never get confused again. It turns out I'm living with a man who fits three separate behavioral patterns: The Demand Man, Mr Always Right, and Water Torturer (kind of self explanatory, I think). It was such a bitter pill to swallow but now I know what I'm dealing with. 

I'm also bringing more friends into the loop because I really need a support network right now and to make it as large as I can. Everyone who knows what I'm going through, including my mom, says I would be justified in leaving. The question remains whether it will be in my and my children's best interests. I'm certainly not rushing into anything, but just knowing that I have options and people standing behind me is very empowering. 

I was thinking of you recently  and hoping everything was ok.  I'm afraid I don't have any great ideas for your situation, but am totally behind you in your quest for doing with is right for yourself and your children.  Happy to be part of a virtual support system! 

Wishing you strength and peace in 2020.

[Anna T]

44 minutes ago, Caroline said:

I was thinking of you recently  and hoping everything was ok.  I'm afraid I don't have any great ideas for your situation, but am totally behind you in your quest for doing with is right for yourself and your children.  Happy to be part of a virtual support system! 

Wishing you strength and peace in 2020.

Thank you. Yes, I am doing OK, as much as possible under the circumstances. When I get frustrated, I compare my current situation to what it was a year, two years ago, and I become encouraged again when I reflect on the progress I've made. 

[Jasmar]

I’m so glad you found the Bancroft book helpful! Once your eyes have been opened to this stuff, you can’t unsee it, like Pandora trying to shove the evils back into the box. My XH combined Demand Man, Mr. Right, Water Torturer, Mr. Sensitive, and The Victim (ICK! And the hardest for me to break free from). He would often cycle between personas, so it was that much more excruciating trying to stay sane: I never knew exactly what to expect, except that I was ultimately the problem.

Ironically, or perhaps not at this point, he’s now “in ministry.” He’s incredibly slick, and convinces everyone he meets that I’m a monster who took his kids from him (for context, my kids were all teens when we left, and are now young aduts). So GLAD to be free!!

Im glad you checked back in ❤️

Edited January 2, 2020 by Jasmar
Added more detail

[AuntCloud]

22 hours ago, Anna T said:

Thank you. Yes, I am doing OK, as much as possible under the circumstances. When I get frustrated, I compare my current situation to what it was a year, two years ago, and I become encouraged again when I reflect on the progress I've made. 

https://www.kolzchut.org.il/he/שכר_מצווה_–_סיוע_משפטי_בהתנדבות_למעוטי_אמצעים

I have found this organization that provides pro bono legal advice.

[The Mother Dust]

Let me first say, I have never followed your threads on here, so I admit I don't know alot about your history, other than what i've gleaned from reading this thread, and a quick scan of your website.  Please do what you need to do to keep you and your children physically safe.  With that in mind, YOU NEED TO LEAVE HIM.  You are a human being that has the same worth and deserves to have the option to live your life striving to be as fully self actualized as humans with different genitals do.

Mona Eltahawy  greatly inspires me when I feel weighed down by certain cultural expectations   
https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Necessary-Sins-Women-Girls/dp/0807013811 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZmb30fsF54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4JuCubuGQg

To everyone who believes in gender equality, we have to hold the line on the progress we've made so far.  "Hold the Line!" in your everyday life as best and as safely as you can.  No going back.

On a lighter note, god i love this video.

Spoiler

 

 

[Anna T]

On 1/5/2020 at 7:36 PM, The Mother Dust said:

Let me first say, I have never followed your threads on here, so I admit I don't know alot about your history, other than what i've gleaned from reading this thread, and a quick scan of your website.  Please do what you need to do to keep you and your children physically safe.  With that in mind, YOU NEED TO LEAVE HIM.  You are a human being that has the same worth and deserves to have the option to live your life striving to be as fully self actualized as humans with different genitals do.

Mona Eltahawy  greatly inspires me when I feel weighed down by certain cultural expectations   
https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Necessary-Sins-Women-Girls/dp/0807013811 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZmb30fsF54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4JuCubuGQg

To everyone who believes in gender equality, we have to hold the line on the progress we've made so far.  "Hold the Line!" in your everyday life as best and as safely as you can.  No going back.

On a lighter note, god i love this video.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Thank you for the encouragement. I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do. It's a complicated situation and tbh right now I'm just doing my best to keep my head above water and stave off depression and anxiety. But reaching out to as many people as possible makes me feel so much better! It's great to know how many people understand exactly what I'm going through and don't think I'm crazy or exaggerating. 

[MamaJunebug]

All strength! 

[Baconandapples]

On 1/7/2020 at 6:23 AM, Anna T said:

Thank you for the encouragement. I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do. It's a complicated situation and tbh right now I'm just doing my best to keep my head above water and stave off depression and anxiety. But reaching out to as many people as possible makes me feel so much better! It's great to know how many people understand exactly what I'm going through and don't think I'm crazy or exaggerating. 

Hi Anna,

I have been reading your blog for years and have commented a few times. I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. I'm glad that you are giving it some time and trying to figure out logically what is best for your kids.

I was raised in an abusive family complicated by religious fundamentalism. My dad was emotionally, verbally, financially and spiritually abusive to my mom. He was physically abusive to us kids and our family pets. He had undiagnosed mental illness and was completely unable to cope with his own issues. He would fly into rages and take his anger out on anyone in his way. My mom finally asked for a separation when I was a young adult. The final straw was when she had found out he was having an affair. 

When he realized my mom was actually standing up to him after all those years, my dad immediately went to each of our family friends in turn and told them lies about my mom and even about me and my siblings. He wanted to muddy the water before anything could come out about him. It worked. The result was that we were shunned by our religious group. Us kids tried to tell some of the higher ups about the abuse and were literally told, "I don't want to hear any more about that." We thought these people loved us and would support us, but as soon as my mom stood up for herself, it all fell down like a house of cards. 

At times I have been angry and felt that my mom didn't care enough to divorce my dad when we were young and his emotional instability was making our lives so stressful. If she had reported some of what was happening when we were kids, she might have had help from secular organizations to get us out of the situation. But that is a big if. Abusive husbands often retain control over their families even after a divorce. My dad could have manipulated a judge just like he did our church elders. Even if she had had the strength of will to overcome years of emotional and spiritual abuse to leave my dad, my mom would likely have ended up on her own, with no money or education, shunned by the church and sharing custody of her children with an abusive man. 

Because she stayed with him through our childhood, we had financial security and a social network. We also had my mom. As a stay at home parent, she had a lot more control over what happened to her children than she would have if we had ended up pawns in a post divorce tug of war. 

I realize you are in a different situation and are at least able to support yourself financially. Maybe you even have friends that will absolutely stick by you. But you never know how things will blow up once the divorce bomb hits, and when you have children with a person they are in your lives forever regardless.

I would never presume to offer advice for your situation, but I thought it might be helpful to share my experience. I am glad you are taking your time and considering all the options. I wish you and your children all the best. 

 

[Anna T]

On 1/11/2020 at 2:37 AM, Baconandapples said:

Hi Anna,

I have been reading your blog for years and have commented a few times. I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. I'm glad that you are giving it some time and trying to figure out logically what is best for your kids.

I was raised in an abusive family complicated by religious fundamentalism. My dad was emotionally, verbally, financially and spiritually abusive to my mom. He was physically abusive to us kids and our family pets. He had undiagnosed mental illness and was completely unable to cope with his own issues. He would fly into rages and take his anger out on anyone in his way. My mom finally asked for a separation when I was a young adult. The final straw was when she had found out he was having an affair. 

When he realized my mom was actually standing up to him after all those years, my dad immediately went to each of our family friends in turn and told them lies about my mom and even about me and my siblings. He wanted to muddy the water before anything could come out about him. It worked. The result was that we were shunned by our religious group. Us kids tried to tell some of the higher ups about the abuse and were literally told, "I don't want to hear any more about that." We thought these people loved us and would support us, but as soon as my mom stood up for herself, it all fell down like a house of cards. 

At times I have been angry and felt that my mom didn't care enough to divorce my dad when we were young and his emotional instability was making our lives so stressful. If she had reported some of what was happening when we were kids, she might have had help from secular organizations to get us out of the situation. But that is a big if. Abusive husbands often retain control over their families even after a divorce. My dad could have manipulated a judge just like he did our church elders. Even if she had had the strength of will to overcome years of emotional and spiritual abuse to leave my dad, my mom would likely have ended up on her own, with no money or education, shunned by the church and sharing custody of her children with an abusive man. 

Because she stayed with him through our childhood, we had financial security and a social network. We also had my mom. As a stay at home parent, she had a lot more control over what happened to her children than she would have if we had ended up pawns in a post divorce tug of war. 

I realize you are in a different situation and are at least able to support yourself financially. Maybe you even have friends that will absolutely stick by you. But you never know how things will blow up once the divorce bomb hits, and when you have children with a person they are in your lives forever regardless.

I would never presume to offer advice for your situation, but I thought it might be helpful to share my experience. I am glad you are taking your time and considering all the options. I wish you and your children all the best. 

 

Thank you so much for being open with me /us and sharing your story. I am so sorry you had had to go through that. 

Yes, I am thankfully in a much, much better situation financially, plus I don't really depend on/belong to any religious social network and am getting plenty of support and understanding from my real life connections. I'm sure people would talk about me, but not to any extent that could really hurt me. It makes me feel so much more confident in whatever eventually comes to pass. 

There are so many things to consider. It is, really, choosing the lesser of two evils, and for the time being I have no idea which one is the lesser. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Anna T

[Caroline]

I've been thinking of Anna recently, and hoping she's ok.  It's hard being isolated with controlling people at a time like this.  I'm lucky and actually enjoying more time with my husband and adult daughter who is here with us because it's a little safer from the virus where we live.   But Anna was struggling, and I hope she's ok.  

 

[Anna T]

18 hours ago, Caroline said:

I've been thinking of Anna recently, and hoping she's ok.  It's hard being isolated with controlling people at a time like this.  I'm lucky and actually enjoying more time with my husband and adult daughter who is here with us because it's a little safer from the virus where we live.   But Anna was struggling, and I hope she's ok.  

 

Thank you so much for thinking about me, Caroline. Yes, the covid isolation, coupled with Pesach prep, has been a challenge to say the least. But, thankfully, I am now stronger than I had been before and was/am able to get through this period without my mental health deteriorating. I am now part of Natalie Hoffman's Flying Free closed group. It's a Christian group so I just skim through some things, but otherwise it's been my lifeline. I am learning SO much valuable information to help me cope, grow as a person, and stay grounded and secure no matter what choice I make eventually. I feel very validated and supported and really feel like I'm making progress. 

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

Hi Anna, I wanted to reach out and see how you're getting along. I am not sure you still read this thread, but in case you do, I hope you are well. COVID, among others, has exacerbated a lot of already difficult home situations. I wish you strength and all the best to you and your children.