Meghan and Harry 2: Now with Archie

[NancyDrewFan1989]

7 minutes ago, viii said:

People mag has a good article right now that clearly comes from Harry and Meghan. I don’t think the royal family was quite in the dark as people assume. 

It looks like Charles and William were aware of their intentions in the new year. But, the Queen wasn't fully aware of what they were planning. That is why they wanted them to hold off before making the announcement. It sounds like the Queen was completely blindsided when, not only they confirmed it, but did it such a public way that a media firestorm was created before she could process the situation.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

It looks like Charles and William were aware of their intentions in the new year. But, the Queen wasn't fully aware of what they were planning. That is why they wanted them to hold off before making the announcement. It sounds like the Queen was completely blindsided when, not only they confirmed it, but did it such a public way that a media firestorm was created before she could process the situation.

I saw somewhere that there was a leak to the Sun which may have forced H and M's hand to put it out there before it was out of their hands.

[louisa05]

The others were aware they wanted to make a change. They had been told to make no public announcements until the details were worked out with Charles and the Queen. Charles and William were apparently told ten minutes before it went live online. The Queen, BP and their own staff not at all. 
 

And there’s no way the announcement was suddenly rushed. They had a website redesigned and ready to go. They left the baby in Canada intending to go back quickly.  The timing was planned on their end. I suspect they are trying to force the Queen & Charles to accept their terms particularly for finances. It’s backfiring. Poll today says 63% of UK public wants them completely defunded if they do this. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I saw somewhere that there was a leak to the Sun which may have forced H and M's hand to put it out there before it was out of their hands.

I read that too. It just sounds like Charles and William were in the know, but the Queen wasn't. They could've at least told her what they were up to before heading off to Canada for Christmas. After all, she is the one who has the power to make decisions about their royal titles, salary and housing among other things the two of them have.

Most of the anger that come from Charles and William is the fact they made a statement shortly after, not only confirming with them, but telling the Queen. The statement left a lot of questions opened that many have. It sounds like she woke up one morning, received a phone call from her grandson who told her he and his wife were resigning followed by a media firestorm. It sounds like everyone told them not to make an official statement until they met with the Queen, William and Charles so they can start a game plan for when the statement came out. I have a feeling the Queen feels humiliated because everyone on the inside seemed to know before she did. Then the whole world found out minutes after she was told. 

[Blahblah]

1 hour ago, kpmom said:

I don't know whether Harry and Meghan handled this whole thing right, I don't follow them all that much, but really, do they have to be "Royals" if they don't want to?  I mean, Harry's about 6th (? I think) in line now.  The chances are slim he'd ever be king.  Why can't he get on with his life in the way he sees fit?

 

I don’t think the backlash is about not wanting H & M to get on with their lives in the way they see fit. All power to them. Off they go. They can go live in a grass hut in Africa, a yurt in Mongolia or up a tree in a random forest if they want. Just as long as they don’t expect everyone else to fund it for them, no negotiations entered into, which is apparently exactly what they do want. 

They want to be royals, just ones who can have all the perks and entitlements of royalty without following any of the expectations or protocols.

Their announcement was essentially a bunch of self-entitled assumptions including being able to relocate overseas while still keeping Frogmore Cottage for when they pop home, plus keeping 95% of the money provided to them (indirectly) by the British tax payers, who will also apparently pay for lifetime security.

They haven’t said that they will immediately be financially independent despite having significant wealth of their own already in the tens of millions of pounds. Their statement says they will “work towards financial independence”. How much more money do they need before they cut Daddy’s purse strings exactly? 

And at the same time they have trade marked Sussex Royal clearly intending to cash in on their royal status. And announced that they will control their own media. 

It is a stupendous exercise in cherry picking the best bits of royal life while ignoring the tedious obligations yet holding out their hands for funding while earning private income in whatever way they deem appropriate. And all without having the courtesy to discuss any of this with the people who they are expecting to pay for them to “live as they see fit”. It’s breathtaking in its arrogance.

 

[JenniferJuniper]

55 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

The timing was planned on their end. I suspect they are trying to force the Queen & Charles to accept their terms particularly for finances. 

Probably so. 

I'm not British and don't follow modern day royals as a general rule, but I do wonder if Harry has always wanted to be a real boy and not have to deal with being a part of the royal family.  Perhaps he, subconsciously or otherwise, went out of his way marry a woman who wouldn't "get" the royalty stuff and make the break that much easier for him.  It may have been somewhat similar in some ways with the Duke of Windsor.  He could have found an acceptable wife and become and acceptable king with his lady friend or friends on the side.  But he opted out entirely. 

We don't really know what's in Harry's heart or head, but we do know he's Diana's boy and he lost her under terrible circumstances at the worst age possible. Her relationship with the royal family and the Queen in particular was complicated at best. We can't know what he's still carrying around.

As for the money, hey, part of me can't blame the kids for trying to working out the best deal they can.  It's so American, and my money is on them landing in the US eventually. 

[Blahblah]

Lol. It’s started....

 

[adidas]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm sorry, @omilona , are you saying that you think there is literally physically life threatening danger for disobeying his family?  I really hope I'm misreading this because if not that does sound crazy.

Oooohhhhhhh. There are indeed some crazy ideas out there. Especially the whole intricately crafted conspiracy theory that Prince Philip ordered Diana’s death.
Let me know if you want some ferrets prepared.

https://www.rd.com/culture/prince-philip-princess-diana-death-rumor/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diana,_Princess_of_Wales_conspiracy_theories

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, adidas said:

Oooohhhhhhh. There are indeed some crazy ideas out there. Especially the whole intricately crafted conspiracy theory that Prince Philip ordered Diana’s death.
Let me know if you want some ferrets prepared.

https://www.rd.com/culture/prince-philip-princess-diana-death-rumor/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diana,_Princess_of_Wales_conspiracy_theories

I was just getting ready for bed, I'll blame you tomorrow when I'm dragging ass because I stayed up reading these!

And I know there are conspiracy theories out there, I was just asking if she was actually being serious, because honestly if you believe these people are capable of that why shouldn't everyone near them run fast and far.

[Blahblah]

Megs is probably safe given that Fergie is still bouncing around despite her many, many embarrassing transgressions.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Blahblah
Because I can’t proof read.

[just_ordinary]

10 hours ago, viii said:

Kind of reminds me how they announced her pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding. Again - something that could have waited a couple more days. 

Or the release of their documentary which overshadows their last SA engagements and has overtaken the narrative of the whole tour (which was a real success in my books).

8 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Maybe but it’s more likely there was no need for a toddler to make such a long trip for a just few days spent in Britain. They have trusted friends and the nannie(s) to look after him. 
 

That said Charles loves his Grandchildren and is actually pretty hands with them on for an older Male British Royal when he gets a chance. This must hurt him. It’s a damn shame Archie will probably be denied the large and close family and activities the Cambridge kids will get. 

Sorry, but I think it’s strange that they leave their small child. This was not a set work engagement. I do have lots of understanding for parents that have to do that. And I absolutely think it’s fine to take some time off as a couple to relax when your child has close and accepted caregivers. But there is a huge difference for taking the weekend off for a short trip or leaving your very small child behind thousands of kilometres. Especially when both parents are gone. They could have easily taken him with them, settled with BP in a peace, spent some time with family and friends, celebrated their goodbyes and put out coordinated statements. I agree that it must be stressing for Archie as I think it’s stressful for most children that age (wanting to move and being more aware of their surroundings) but I am sure that’s not the last long flight they will take him on, even if it’s just for a couple of days at their destination. And I do criticise both of them equally for that decision.

 

I am actually not so sure how hands on Charles truly is. There was a little media fight a couple of years ago when „Clarence House sources“ stated that Charles feels sad they cannot see his grandchild(ren) as often as he would like.  Tabloids, some blogs and gossip sites ran with it, and there were tons of accusations Kate and Wiliam would purposely withhold the child(ren) from him and favouring the Middletons. Opinions diverged if the reason was Carole’s power driven influence, Kate’s pettiness or Wiliams resentment or all of it together. I checked: this topic came up again and again for years. Definitely in 2014/2015 and again in later 2016. Internet, SM and blogs where already around and the hate Carole, Kate and Wiliam got was crazy. [ People act as if shit storms and brutal online bullying just came up a short time ago when in reality this shit happened regularly at least since the 2010s. We just talk about how problematic it is now.] 
Another group disregarded this rumours and argued that Charles was not actually a good father, he and Diana fought a dirty and embarrassing war in the papers, and the BRF just does not have a warm, supportive and healthy family dynamic. They argued that the Middletons gave Wiliam stability and warmth. No wonder he would rather spent time with them than his bunch.

I have no idea if any of those stories have any truth to it and how Wiliam feels about his parents and their action. We will never know if there was a rift or if the whole drama was made up. What I do know is that:

The narrative has completely changed in the last couple of years. Charles PR strategy starts to pay off and the Cambridge’s have their own PR that falls in line with it. They do make more of an effort to attend church (which makes sense if Wiliam wants to be supreme governor of the Church), and it feels as if they moved closer to Charles and Camilla even if I am not sure there are more joined engagements or photo ops. Maybe it’s the visible fact that they are working more and seem to prepare for the Prince and Princess of Wales role.

So- who knows if Charles is devastated. I don’t recall him spending much time with Archie when he was in the UK. But that doesn’t necessarily mean one or the other.

Edited January 10, 2020 by just_ordinary

[LittleOwl]

Some reading on the Duchy of Cornwall and its finances: https://duchyofcornwall.org/integrated-annual-reports.html 

[Karma]

Can I ask, once Charles becomes King, am I right in thinking that the Duchy of Cornwall, and presumably its income, passes to William?  Perhaps Harry wasn’t so sure that William would be as generous to him as their father has been?  Or Harry doesn’t want to be beholden to William?  (I’m no expert, am just wondering.)

[Cat Damon]

10 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Perhaps he, subconsciously or otherwise, went out of his way marry a woman who wouldn't "get" the royalty stuff and make the break that much easier for him.

I agree with this. And before I type this out, I do think Meghan and Harry honestly love each other - their body language and PDA does not look forced to me at all, and I'm hopeful that even with all these bad decisions that their marriage will survive (they may not have anyone else after all this is over) .

I also think, not in a negative way, that they are using (I don't like this word but I can't think of anything better) each other to get what they want - Harry wants out of the BRF duties he apparently has a lot of problems with, and Meghan, someone who has chased fame her entire adult life, saw an opportunity in Harry to increase her star power and catapult herself onto the "A-list" she has been working towards for years. I don't think either of them are trying to be assholes, but it was probably not too hard to convince themselves that this was all a good idea when they were in their vacation bubble with no one there to tell them that it might not go the way they want.

I will say (sorry for the wall of text) that some of their phrasing bugs me. I read their website and it just really comes off so entitled. I too could "work to become financially independent" if I had someone else bankrolling my life for an undetermined amount of time and was allowed to make loads of money by just showing up places and smiling. These are two of the most privileged people on the planet so a lot of their whining about their lives being so hard comes off as spoiled to me. Just my two cents.

[FluffySnowball]

13 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

The way they did this has got to be terribly hurtful for so many members of the BRF.  

For Charles, who seems to care deeply for his sons and grandchildren and is/was a hands-on dad and grandfather.  

For Philip, who is sickly and old and tried to take a special interest with both boys after Diana died and now seems isolated from PH and his family.  

For the Queen, who is apparently close to PH and now is facing an uncertain future where he seems to be trying to manipulate the Crown to his advantage in a terribly selfish way - totally contrary to the selfless duty that has been her guiding principle.  

For the Duchess of Cambridge who used to be good friends with PH and whom he apparently admired as a wife and mother.  

For PW whose brother seems pretty much an enemy to him now, when a couple of years ago they seemed close. 

For the little Cambridges who won't know their uncle, aunt, and cousin.  

For little Archie who will likely never know a grandfather, nor will he know his aunt, uncle, and cousins.

I agree with your assessment! Likely influenced by Diana’s death and both what led to it and the aftermath, I can understand Harry “acting up” and wanting to forge a new role according to his wishes. Trauma and fears are likely at play here as well. However, the way he now goes about it, especially with not planning things together with other members of the BRF, is a big mistake IMO - both for his public image and for his personal relationships with his family. 

It does show me, however, that no matter how rich and privileged you are, money can’t necessarily buy happiness. Of course it makes life more comfortable, but you can be insanely wealthy and pretty miserable at the same time. In general, I don’t judge that. We all have our burdens to bear even though compared to other people, we might be much better off... In this sense, I feel a little sorry for him and hope that in the future, Harry and William will get on better again, even if it’s just for the sake of both brothers’ children. 

[LittleOwl]

2 hours ago, Karma said:

Can I ask, once Charles becomes King, am I right in thinking that the Duchy of Cornwall, and presumably its income, passes to William?  

From what I can see, I think it stays with the Prince of Wales, which would be Wills once Charlie gets the throne.  

[viii]

7 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I am actually not so sure how hands on Charles truly is. There was a little media fight a couple of years ago when „Clarence House sources“ stated that Charles feels sad they cannot see his grandchild(ren) as often as he would like.  Tabloids, some blogs and gossip sites ran with it, and there were tons of accusations Kate and Wiliam would purposely withhold the child(ren) from him and favouring the Middletons. Opinions diverged if the reason was Carole’s power driven influence, Kate’s pettiness or Wiliams resentment or all of it together. I checked: this topic came up again and again for years. Definitely in 2014/2015 and again in later 2016. Internet, SM and blogs where already around and the hate Carole, Kate and Wiliam got was crazy. [ People act as if shit storms and brutal online bullying just came up a short time ago when in reality this shit happened regularly at least since the 2010s. We just talk about how problematic it is now.] 
Another group disregarded this rumours and argued that Charles was not actually a good father, he and Diana fought a dirty and embarrassing war in the papers, and the BRF just does not have a warm, supportive and healthy family dynamic. They argued that the Middletons gave Wiliam stability and warmth. No wonder he would rather spent time with them than his bunch.

I actually don't think Charles really is that hands on, so all the comments on how devastated Charles must be at not seeing Archie during this time amuse me. I doubt Charles has even thought of Archie during all of this, he's probably got a lot of other things on his mind. 

The Middletons received so much hate for being the primary grandparents, but I can definitely see why William would be more naturally drawn to them then his own family. They were a breath of fresh air, something less rigid and formal, and something infinitely more warm and inclusive. You'd think that William would understand how that feels, and be more accepting towards Meghan, since that's why she and Doria are for Harry. 

[nausicaa]

13 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Really? He has had plenty of public behavior that showed he is self-absorbed and not concerned about how his actions impacted the royal family. It seems really odd that people are going to act like he was this upstanding citizen who never put a toe out of line or had a scandal before Meghan came along.

For the record, I think they both come off as impulsive, entitled idiots. 

I don't think Harry is being forced into anything, but I also can't shake that Meghan Markle pinged my craydar from the word go and nothing that has happened since has confirmed otherwise. I think some criticism levied at her is from sexism and racism, but quite a bit seems valid to me. 

13 hours ago, kpmom said:

I don't know whether Harry and Meghan handled this whole thing right, I don't follow them all that much, but really, do they have to be "Royals" if they don't want to?  I mean, Harry's about 6th (? I think) in line now.  The chances are slim he'd ever be king.  Why can't he get on with his life in the way he sees fit?

Sure, I have no problem with that. But so far they've come off to a lot of people as spoiled children more into drama and double standards than actually just going their own way. This is just one of those wait and see games. We'll see if they quietly go off like other working royals and live private lives, or if they become some hot mess publicity machine constantly looking for fame and validation, and handouts. 

Something tells me it's the latter. I'm a bit jealous of the optimism of those who think it will be the former, but I'm open to just waiting this thing out. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by nausicaa

[Bajovane]

I've been thinking about this whole thing and I'm wondering if these two want out partially due to the political situation.   Meghan has so far managed to avoid meeting with Trump and both she and Harry seem to dislike him.  They had wanted to invite the Obamas to their wedding but couldn't because goodness forbid they ruffle orange feathers.  Being in the Royal family means staying as neutral as possible.   Will their exit as senior royals enable them to speak more freely?

[NancyDrewFan1989]

5 minutes ago, Bajovane said:

I've been thinking about this whole thing and I'm wondering if these two want out partially due to the political situation.   Meghan has so far managed to avoid meeting with Trump and both she and Harry seem to dislike him.  They had wanted to invite the Obamas to their wedding but couldn't because goodness forbid they ruffle orange feathers.  Being in the Royal family means staying as neutral as possible.   Will their exit as senior royals enable them to speak more freely?

That is what I am thinking as well. Meghan has a well documented history being involved in feminist causes and supported Hillary Clinton. When she became a royal she lost the right to vote and voice her political opinion. I have a feelings the feathers got ruffled when Harry and Meghan started being actively involved in support gender equality. Nothing wrong with any of this, but it does go against royal protocol to be involved in politics.

As for the Obamas, there is no way the Queen would allow it. An invite for the Obamas would come off as too political for the royal family. One thing I have learned about the royal family in recent years is politics and royals don't mix. Remember when Kate wore a green dress to an event and she was criticized for not wearing black to support the Me Too movement. Remember when Will and Kate were criticized for not inviting the Obamas to their wedding, even though they weren't friends. They just can't win in those situations.

Maybe not being a senior royal will allow them to voice their opinions for causes they care about. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by NancyDrewFan1989
Obama Update

[Giraffe]

I understand it, but it’s sad that gender equality is a political issue. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

2 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I understand it, but it’s sad that gender equality is a political issue. 

No kidding it is sad. It shouldn't be a political issue, but it is. 

[viii]

I feel like Meghan has lost her voice in a lot of areas, and I don't think she's happy about it. One can argue that she was a grown woman who should have understood exactly what she was getting herself into, but I don't think it's that easy. It's like preparing to become pregnant and have a child - you know you're going to have nights with practically no sleep, and you know that you're giving up so much, but until it actually happens, you don't realize how much it actually effects you emotionally. 

I think Meghan is in over her head, and she has the courage to try and change her circumstances. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

9 minutes ago, viii said:

I think Meghan is in over her head, and she has the courage to try and change her circumstances. 

The two of them are in over their heads. They do have the courage to try and change. But what is bothering a lot of people is that they make it sound like they want to keep what they have now like the multi-million dollar renovated cottage and security while not doing as much as the other royals. The two of them, clearly, had been thinking about this for some time since, it looks like, Charles and William were aware of what they were thinking. But, when The Sun (a British mag) got the word they jumped the gun by releasing a written statement and website with a lot of opened questions. What they really needed to do was sit down with the family to let them know. Plus, they had a six week vacation they couldn't have just put a couple hours aside to tell the Queen, Charles and William they were seriously considering this before jetting off to Canada. I don't blame for wanting the change with the media. They made a big mistake with how they handled by, most likely unintentionally, humiliating the Queen.

[treehugger]

You guys, after Prince Andrew, Harry and Meghan are hardly humiliating. I’m sure there is a more refined way about going about this, but I think we may be be underestimating the Queen here.