Meghan and Harry 2: Now with Archie

[just_ordinary]

They are absolutely not seeking to be private citizens. Which fair enough when they want to use their fame to raise money. The only problem would be when they (as they seem to plan) use the title and privileges of the BRF for their own endeavours. They can be on all the red carpets but not as the Duke and Duchess of Sussex anymore. 
Sadly I read that the BRF wants to give them what they want and let them keep their titles. Allegedly they want to this because they faced a lot of backlash when they stripped Diana of her HRH after the divorce. Well, Diana was adored frenetically- these two are... not. 
Now, we will see how this all plays out. In the end this might be for the best. As soon as Wiliam is Prince of Wales the Dutchy of Cornwall will fund him, Kate and his children. With the streamlined monarchy approach ofCharles the Dutchy of Lancaster might not be used to fund Harry and Meghan. Harry has only seemed to be happily on board for a couples of years. He gave hints that he struggled with his role. Being only 6th in line might have shown all of them that there needs to be taken action. Maybe they saw the writing on the wall. Harry and his parents certainly didn’t prepare him for providing for himself by holding a job.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Their statement said they wanted Frogmore Cottage to always be a home in the UK for their family. That was too presumptuous for me. Do they think that in 2070, Archie can be living a private life on another continent and he can expect to have a home maintained to a royal standard in case he wants to come to King George’s grandchild’s wedding?

[NancyDrewFan1989]

1 hour ago, treehugger said:

You guys, after Prince Andrew, Harry and Meghan are hardly humiliating. I’m sure there is a more refined way about going about this, but I think we may be be underestimating the Queen here. 

Don't get me wrong the Prince Andrew situation is disgusting. But, he has more control over the narrative with the Queen rather than public. When he stepped down it came after that disastrous interview. Prince Andrew telling the Queen what he was doing didn't really come as a surprise to her. Then again, he knows the ropes and probably sat down and spoke with her rather than tell her 10 minutes before blasting it on Instagram while on vacation in Canada. Like I said at the beginning I am not defending Andrew's actions, just saying he handled it differently than Meghan and Harry so the palace was more prepared.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by HerNameIsBuffy
Removed double post within this one - no content changed

[Baba O'Riley]

I think that maybe Harry only recently woke up to how shabbily his mum was treated by the BRF, especially Charles, and it's payback time. He may really have been in the dark for most of his life about the entire sordid history.  Perhaps he avoided reading up about it and may not have realized that "there were three in [Charles' and Diana's] marriage," to quote Diana in the Martin Bashir interview.  Maybe he only recently saw the interview?  He may have read how granny did not want to come back from Balmoral for the funeral, and how Diana's HRH title was taken away, among other insults.  It may be that Meghan was the one who really opened his eyes to it.  And perhaps he is angry with Wills for not also being angry about it.  

[tabitha2]

2 hours ago, viii said:

I feel like Meghan has lost her voice in a lot of areas, and I don't think she's happy about it. One can argue that she was a grown woman who should have understood exactly what she was getting herself into, but I don't think it's that easy. It's like preparing to become pregnant and have a child - you know you're going to have nights with practically no sleep, and you know that you're giving up so much, but until it actually happens, you don't realize how much it actually effects you emotionally. 

I think Meghan is in over her head, and she has the courage to try and change her circumstances. 

 
Yeah And most reasonable adults at least attempt to adjust , learn and get on with the life they chose.Instead She does not like being  a Royal anymore because she can’t do exactly what she wants so she is partially to blame for causing a huge maybe irreparable rift with her laws many of whom were said to support and be genuinely fond of her and have been giving them plenty of leeway as it is, Cutting a running to another country with apparently no clear plan about shit , still expecting the Crown to pay for their jet setting around the world playing noble philanthropists as well their security 

I might add courage and wisdom are too different things. Seems more incredibly obstinate cocksureness to me.Fools rush in where angels fear to tread and all that. 

32 minutes ago, Baba O'Riley said:

I think that maybe Harry only recently woke up to how shabbily his mum was treated by the BRF, especially Charles, and it's payback time. He may really have been in the dark for most of his life about the entire sordid history.  Perhaps he avoided reading up about it and may not have realized that "there were three in [Charles' and Diana's] marriage," to quote Diana in the Martin Bashir interview.  Maybe he only recently saw the interview?  He may have read how granny did not want to come back from Balmoral for the funeral, and how Diana's HRH title was taken away, among other insults.  It may be that Meghan was the one who really opened his eyes to it.  And perhaps he is angry with Wills for not also being angry about it.  

Yikes.  If he is truly that vengeful and Malicious  trying to actively hurt his own father and grandparents and brother  who have always shown love and understanding in his ugliest moments As a crusade to payback them for what they supposedly did to Diana He is truly beyond Fucked up. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by tabitha2

[HerNameIsBuffy]

16 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

 who have always shown love and understanding in his ugliest moments

Tbf none of us ever know what goes on in other people's family dynamics.  

 

18 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Yeah And most reasonable adults at least attempt to adjust , learn and get on with the life they chose.

Don't you think most reasonable adults also try to change things when they find the life they chose wasn't making them happy?  Improve their life?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan girl.  I find this stuff interesting atm but my thoughts about her don't generally extend beyond noticing she's beautiful and has a cute baby when I see a pic.  I am just struck by the amount of hate getting thrown her way for not kowtowing to an archaic and IMO ridiculous institution.

And I absolutely don't think any of them should be living off the tax payer so no argument from me on the money thing - they want to live their own lives they should pay their own bills.  And even if they never got another dime from the BRF they should still be able to manage.  Many wildly famous, wealthy, but unskilled, people make serious bank sitting on boards and giving inane speeches to stay wealthy.  Or they can scale back their lifestyle and become off grid goat farmers...whatever.  

I just think there is a huge chasm between them making a change for their own happiness, income, whatever and her trying to bring down the monarchy.  If it comes crashing down because of one marriage then it wasn't that strong to begin with.  

[nelliebelle1197]

17 hours ago, Baba O'Riley said:

I think that maybe Harry only recently woke up to how shabbily his mum was treated by the BRF, especially Charles, and it's payback time. He may really have been in the dark for most of his life about the entire sordid history.  Perhaps he avoided reading up about it and may not have realized that "there were three in [Charles' and Diana's] marriage," to quote Diana in the Martin Bashir interview.  Maybe he only recently saw the interview?  He may have read how granny did not want to come back from Balmoral for the funeral, and how Diana's HRH title was taken away, among other insults.  It may be that Meghan was the one who really opened his eyes to it.  And perhaps he is angry with Wills for not also being angry about it.  

I am not really sure she was shabbily treated and I am positive she was neither blameless nor stable.

[nelliebelle1197]

I think the big pieces that seems to be missing in these conversations concern both their intelligence and his mental health. Neither of these people seem  possessed of well-honed critical thinking skills nor a serious enough intellect to genuinely strategically plan an appropriate exit. These are not bright bulbs and I think Meghan’s social climbing since she met Harry has taken a lot of her energy (I mean seriously, where did a supporting D-list actress in a Canadian-produced TV show hook up with all these major famous people like the Obamas? Serena Williams? Amal Clooney? That stuff has never made sense unless she was cultivating those relationships after Harry). Are there real friends who are mature and smart enough to help?
 

Also, Harry seems to suffer from mental illness. He has alluded to that repeatedly. I wonder if it is untreated - or at least improperly treated?

Edited January 11, 2020 by nelliebelle1197

[louisa05]

On 1/10/2020 at 8:01 AM, Cat Damon said:

I agree with this. And before I type this out, I do think Meghan and Harry honestly love each other - their body language and PDA does not look forced to me at all, and I'm hopeful that even with all these bad decisions that their marriage will survive (they may not have anyone else after all this is over) .

I also think, not in a negative way, that they are using (I don't like this word but I can't think of anything better) each other to get what they want - Harry wants out of the BRF duties he apparently has a lot of problems with, and Meghan, someone who has chased fame her entire adult life, saw an opportunity in Harry to increase her star power and catapult herself onto the "A-list" she has been working towards for years. I don't think either of them are trying to be assholes, but it was probably not too hard to convince themselves that this was all a good idea when they were in their vacation bubble with no one there to tell them that it might not go the way they want.

I will say (sorry for the wall of text) that some of their phrasing bugs me. I read their website and it just really comes off so entitled. I too could "work to become financially independent" if I had someone else bankrolling my life for an undetermined amount of time and was allowed to make loads of money by just showing up places and smiling. These are two of the most privileged people on the planet so a lot of their whining about their lives being so hard comes off as spoiled to me. Just my two cents.

I could be financially independent Without worrying or working for  a long time  if I had around 10 million pounds in inheritance money in the bank like Harry does. I think his father needs to tell him to live on that in the mean time 

18 hours ago, Baba O'Riley said:

I think that maybe Harry only recently woke up to how shabbily his mum was treated by the BRF, especially Charles, and it's payback time. He may really have been in the dark for most of his life about the entire sordid history.  Perhaps he avoided reading up about it and may not have realized that "there were three in [Charles' and Diana's] marriage," to quote Diana in the Martin Bashir interview.  Maybe he only recently saw the interview?  He may have read how granny did not want to come back from Balmoral for the funeral, and how Diana's HRH title was taken away, among other insults.  It may be that Meghan was the one who really opened his eyes to it.  And perhaps he is angry with Wills for not also being angry about it.  

She didn’t want to take the boys back to London as early as they did. She also worried that the huge spectacle of a funeral would be too hard on them so it should be scaled down. She was trying to protect them.  They have said as adults that it was too much. Is t that interesting?

There is so much mythology surrounding Diana. All of it to trash Charles and his family and turn her into a saint. 

[AridityOfHeaven]

Based on The Crown, it sure seems that QE2 has experience dealing with a spare gone off the rails. It cannot be easy to spend your entire life being the second and then pushed even further back when a niece or nephew is born. It might be kinda horrible that your beloved amazing child has no importance in the scheme of the family because all your brothers kids are all that matter.

Negative attention is better than no attention, and that seems to be Harry's life motto. 

It never struck me right that Meghan was supposed to be all about feminism but then literally did the most anti-feminism thing by marrying Prince Harry and buying into The Firm. She does strike me as an opportunist and quite out for herself.

Poor Archie.

[louisa05]

12 minutes ago, AridityOfHeaven said:

Based on The Crown, it sure seems that QE2 has experience dealing with a spare gone off the rails. It cannot be easy to spend your entire life being the second and then pushed even further back when a niece or nephew is born. It might be kinda horrible that your beloved amazing child has no importance in the scheme of the family because all your brothers kids are all that matter.

Negative attention is better than no attention, and that seems to be Harry's life motto. 

It never struck me right that Meghan was supposed to be all about feminism but then literally did the most anti-feminism thing by marrying Prince Harry and buying into The Firm. She does strike me as an opportunist and quite out for herself.

Poor Archie.

The Crown is hardly accurate. Though Margaret did have difficulty finding a role. 
The thing with Harry and Meghan is this constant cry for privacy mixed with constantly throwing their personal life out there. “We want everything about our baby’s birth to be private” except the part where Harry will basically call a press conference to talk about it—something no father in the BRF has ever done. “A photo call leaving  hospital is a bad public spectacle. We’ll keep our baby private”. Except for the grand choreographed display with questions in a grand room at a castle that was longer than any prior newborn photo call.  “Don’t even think of interviewing us on tour about the events or we’ll snap at you. We don’t talk to reporters on tour”. Except for the one we picked to make a documentary and we’re going to air our very private grievances too “. 

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I am not really sure she was shabbily treated and I am positive she was neither blameless nor stable.

Worth a read:

Black Britons Know Why Meghan Markle Wants Out

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/opinion/meghan-markle-prince-harry.html

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I think the big pieces that seems to be missing in these conversations concern both their intelligence and his mental health. Neither of these people seem  possessed of well-honed critical thinking skills nor a serious enough intellect to genuinely strategically plan an appropriate exit. These are not bright bulbs and I think Meghan’s social climbing since she met Harry has taken a lot of her energy (I mean seriously, where did a supporting D-list actress in a Canadian-produced TV show hook up with all these major famous people like the Obamas? Serena Williams? Amal Clooney? That stuff has never made sense unless she was cultivating those relationships after Harry). Are there real friends who are mature and smart enough to help?
 

Also, Harry seems to suffer from mental illness. He has alluded to that repeatedly. I wonder if it is untreated - or at least improperly treated?

She seems to have met Serena at a one off event prior. But I’m not sure the bffs forever and ever story is entirely true. Serena seemed tired of it all when questioned about her during Wimbledon last summer and literally said she’d neither seen her nor communicated with her.  
 

The rest were absolutely cultivated after Harry.  While not a hugely important figure, Gayle King publicly said she had never met her until she was invited to the infamous baby shower. Why would you invite a woman you have never met who has a wide and benevolent media presence to a private, personal event? Hmmmm. And that brings back the whole “we need privacy thing”. Until you invite a media member to your private event and okay  her gushing about it on television.  

[acheronbeach]

31 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Worth a read:

Black Britons Know Why Meghan Markle Wants Out

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/opinion/meghan-markle-prince-harry.html

I only got to the discussion two racist Daily Mail articles they published pre-marriage before I hit  the paywall. What other UK media did they talk about?  I know about the puppet show but nothing else published in the MSM.

I don't think most people would begrudge Harry and Meghan stepping back.  But why can't you try to do it in a way that's considerate of the BRF, particularly the nation's beloved queen? Why should two very independently wealthy people want an independence that still requires the taxpayer to keep funding their security or house or their income through Harry's dad?  Why keep the titles without the duties? Why can't they simply be rich, famous private citizens?

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Worth a read:

Black Britons Know Why Meghan Markle Wants Out

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/opinion/meghan-markle-prince-harry.html

Saw this and I agree with the author. 

Yes, the Sussexes are exhibiting major entitlement. Yes, their announced intent to become "financially independent" while likely continuing to be supported through BRF/UK funds deserves to be met with eye-rolls. Yes, they have behaved in a schizoid manner when it comes to personal privacy vs. courting the media.

Nonetheless, the underlying & relentlessly racist treatment of Meghan is real and has been there all along.

Even had they toed the line on everything else, I doubt that the overt racism would let up or stop. So, I can't blame them at all for wanting to remove themselves from its gunsights. 

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

Nonetheless, the underlying & relentlessly racist treatment of Meghan is real and has been there all along.

And they have a little boy to think about now.

[tabitha2]

Please don’t yell at me but when has the the mainstream print media or Digital media ever been been racist in the least to her? In fact They usually idolize her and think she can do wrong  that I haves even. The Comments section of a Yahoo or Daily Mail is best ignored and not worth mentioning. I mean a national newspaper or News program.  The legit stuff. 
 

Seem to me If the London Times or other National paper say was so relentlessly  racist about Meghan they would looking at law suits and massive Backlash. 
 

People always claim this but where is it? 

Edited January 12, 2020 by tabitha2

[treehugger]

I almost wonder if the racism is less on mainstream media and more within the BRF itself.  Because of where we live in our city and certain connections that have been made, I have witnessed firsthand the staggering racism that seems incredibly common in upper class British Canadian circles, and I don’t imagine it is much better across the pond.  I have heard people of colour referred to as “darkies” (Please know that I was horrified and made it clear) and spoken of in the most disparaging terms by people who are very open-minded as far as sexuality and women’s rights are concerned.  It is all very sad, and just so backwards. 

[zee_four]

1 hour ago, treehugger said:

I almost wonder if the racism is less on mainstream media and more within the BRF itself.  Because of where we live in our city and certain connections that have been made, I have witnessed firsthand the staggering racism that seems incredibly common in upper class British Canadian circles, and I don’t imagine it is much better across the pond.  I have heard people of colour referred to as “darkies” (Please know that I was horrified and made it clear) and spoken of in the most disparaging terms by people who are very open-minded as far as sexuality and women’s rights are concerned.  It is all very sad, and just so backwards. 

Out of curiosity (and as a Canadian myself) can I ask where you live? Please don't feel obligated to answer, but I'm really interested having seen some racism in parts of my Canadian family, the ones who were born and raised and still, for the most part, live in very rural, farm communities in SW Ontario.

[treehugger]

@zee_four, I currently live in Montreal. Although all of my relatives live in rural SW Ontario, so I know what racism you speak of.  I also lived in Alberta and witnessed it there as well.  It seems it is everywhere still ?. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by treehugger

[treehugger]

I should add, I was not surprised, although I am disappointed, to find racism in Canada alive and well among hardcore Conservative, mainly white, rural Communities in Alberta and SW Ontario. I was very surprised to see such blatant racism amongst educated, Liberal, Anglo-Saxon people in Montreal.  I do need to add the disclaimer that most people I know here are lovely, welcoming, caring people, but there are a few who just don’t get it. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Please don’t yell at me but when has the the mainstream print media or Digital media ever been been racist in the least to her? In fact They usually idolize her and think she can do wrong  that I haves even. The Comments section of a Yahoo or Daily Mail is best ignored and not worth mentioning. I mean a national newspaper or News program.  The legit stuff. 
 

Seem to me If the London Times or other National paper say was so relentlessly  racist about Meghan they would looking at law suits and massive Backlash. 
 

People always claim this but where is it? 

Links to some specifics in the article @hoipolloi posted a few comments upthread.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

3 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Please don’t yell at me but when has the the mainstream print media or Digital media ever been been racist in the least to her? In fact They usually idolize her and think she can do wrong  that I haves even. The Comments section of a Yahoo or Daily Mail is best ignored and not worth mentioning. I mean a national newspaper or News program.  The legit stuff. 
 

Seem to me If the London Times or other National paper say was so relentlessly  racist about Meghan they would looking at law suits and massive Backlash. 
 

People always claim this but where is it? 

Examples from the NYT article

Spoiler

From the very first headline about her being “(almost) straight outta Compton” and having “exotic” DNA, the racist treatment of Meghan has been impossible to ignore. Princess Michael of Kent wore an overtly racist brooch in the duchess’s company. A BBC host compared the couple’s newborn baby to a chimpanzee. Then there was the sublimely ludicrous suggestion that Meghan’s avocado consumption is responsible for mass murder, while her charity cookbook was portrayed as somehow helping terrorists.

Those who claim frequent attacks against the duchess have nothing to do with her race have a hard time explaining these attempts to link her with particularly racialized forms of crime — terrorism and gang activity — as well as the fact that she has been most venomously attacked for acts that attracted praise when other royals did them. Her decision to guest-edit British Vogue, for example, was roundly condemned by large parts of the British media, in stark contrast to Prince Charles’s two-time guest editorship of Country Life magazine, Prince Harry’s of a BBC program and Kate Middleton’s at Huffington Post, all of which were quietly praised at the time.

 

[nelliebelle1197]

11 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Worth a read:

Black Britons Know Why Meghan Markle Wants Out

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/opinion/meghan-markle-prince-harry.html

There was actually a counterpoint to that in the WAPO (I think) that noted that she is only black when convenient, which I thought was an interesting perspective - written by a black American woman.

[dawbs]

9 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

There was actually a counterpoint to that in the WAPO (I think) that noted that she is only black when convenient, which I thought was an interesting perspective - written by a black American woman.

Universally, I hate that argument;  i think it's a variation on telling people w/ legit greivience to quit "playing the X card" (regardless of the race of the writer). And not just the wording (but, also, hate the wording.

I might not see sexism in everything, but damn, I dont get to chose to be less female when it's not convenient-I might "cry sexism "only sometimes, but that doesn't change the sexism microaggressions that I ignore.

Someone only sometimes tackling it seems more like issue exhaustion than convenience 

 

(I know i look "team markle" in this thread, which is interesting because IRL I'm reasonably sure I'd kinda hate her)