Meghan and Harry 2: Now with Archie

[viii]

1 minute ago, ViolaSebastian said:

This really bothers me too, if I'm being honest. They only had to wait a couple more days.

Kind of reminds me how they announced her pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding. Again - something that could have waited a couple more days. 

[Melbelle]

Frogmore Cottage is considered a "grace and favor" home.  It is part of the Crown Estate and therefore the property of the Monarch (currently the Queen, but would then go to Charles, William, George, and so on).  The Monarch can charge rent for these properties or she can provide them at her "grace and favor" as she appears to be doing for H&M.  

It has been widely reported over the years that the Queen is particularly fond of Harry.   Apparently he convinced her to do the 2012 Olympics opening with Bond (Daniel Craig).  I find it doubtful that she would take away the home itself, however Charles or William may handle things different when they ascend.  

I can see the Queen removing their Duke and Duchess of Sussex titles and carefully wording the formal statement to explain that they are doing so in order to allow H&M to no longer be categorized as "senior" working royals.  In my opinion this would be a classy, respectful way for the Queen, Charles, William and BRF as a whole to appear to be giving H&M exactly what they requested, while actually removing opportunities for the merching of Sussex Royal.

[Giraffe]

Up till now I’ve felt sympathetic towards them. This new move has me flipped. Plus leaving Archie in Canada seems like the ultimate fuck you. “You can only see him if you give us what we want.” 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Giraffe

[tabitha2]

Maybe but it’s more likely there was no need for a toddler to make such a long trip for a just few days spent in Britain. They have trusted friends and the nannie(s) to look after him. 
 

That said Charles loves his Grandchildren and is actually pretty hands with them on for an older Male British Royal when he gets a chance. This must hurt him. It’s a damn shame Archie will probably be denied the large and close family and activities the Cambridge kids will get. 

[omilona]

Molotov Meghan has departed the UK with no plans to return in the forseeable future https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7870677/Prince-Harry-Meghan-Markle-left-young-Archie-Canada.html leaving Harry behind to negotiate. She has no idea who she is fucking with. I advise her to stay out of any tunnels in Paris. Diana never pulled this crap. "I've taken the boys to Canada and I'm not bringing them back until I get my way". Seriously, Who TF does MM think she is? She, the C- list minor actor,thinks she  is going to take down the BRF and dictate terms with the present #7 as negotiating bait?. HAHAHAHA. Good luck with that.

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by omilona

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, omilona said:

Diana never pulled this crap. "II've taken the boys to Canada and I'm not bringing them back until I get my way".

Had she done that she'd have been taking them away from their father, which is a completely different situation.  

 

[Giraffe]

49 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Maybe but it’s more likely there was no need for a toddler to make such a long trip for a just few days spent in Britain. They have trusted friends and the nannie(s) to look after him. 

This is a good point I hadn’t considered. Hopefully this is the reason and not spite. The last thing Archie needs is to be used as a pawn. 

[acheronbeach]

55 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Maybe but it’s more likely there was no need for a toddler to make such a long trip for a just few days spent in Britain. They have trusted friends and the nannie(s) to look after him. 
 

That said Charles loves his Grandchildren and is actually pretty hands with them on for an older Male British Royal when he gets a chance. This must hurt him. It’s a damn shame Archie will probably be denied the large and close family and activities the Cambridge kids will get. 

The way they did this has got to be terribly hurtful for so many members of the BRF.  

For Charles, who seems to care deeply for his sons and grandchildren and is/was a hands-on dad and grandfather.  

For Philip, who is sickly and old and tried to take a special interest with both boys after Diana died and now seems isolated from PH and his family.  

For the Queen, who is apparently close to PH and now is facing an uncertain future where he seems to be trying to manipulate the Crown to his advantage in a terribly selfish way - totally contrary to the selfless duty that has been her guiding principle.  

For the Duchess of Cambridge who used to be good friends with PH and whom he apparently admired as a wife and mother.  

For PW whose brother seems pretty much an enemy to him now, when a couple of years ago they seemed close. 

For the little Cambridges who won't know their uncle, aunt, and cousin.  

For little Archie who will likely never know a grandfather, nor will he know his aunt, uncle, and cousins.

[AliceInFundyland]

I don't know that I like any player in this game. I do get the sense that everyone wants to move on already.

1. Queen Elizabeth is such a unique person. I've always wanted to meet her. She was thrust into a position at the end of an era. Look how much the world, her world has changed, in her 70 years oh throne. And she has this whole family to carry with her.
2.  Charles has been in that shadow. Look at his pain. He has a son and grandson who will likely reign longer then he. His brother's sins are quite probably unforgivable but, well, yeah, he's gonna have to tidy up that shit stain.
3. So here's Harry... It seems to me that now that the boy has gotten himself married, everyone,himself included, realizes there's not much for him to do. Meghan has done some things indepently before. Maybe she's got "ideas" Good, bad. No opinion on her potential as an earner. I'd still like to think it is better that he chose someone who is independent minded and not a socialite who expected to cleave on and live at Frogmore till they died. I see a man who doesn't know where he fits, in a family struggling to reposition itself.
4. It falls to Will and Charles to keep the monarchy in everyone's good graces. If they havent had chats about what happens when Grandmama dies, independent of Grandmama, well, I'd eat my hat. She's a remarkable, semi-permanent, figure of modern history. They have a long road ahead. I get inklings there are real emotions and people under the foofery. And that they do acknowledge the mistakes of their past. They'll want to preserve her legacy and air out the drapes at the same time.
5. As with any family in constant, unyielding display. I hope they can keep doing better.

[formergothardite]

50 minutes ago, omilona said:

Molotov Meghan has departed the UK with no plans to return in the forseeable

What is with this sexist "blame Meghan"? Why say it is all her and say she is the "molotov" instead of acting like Harry is also an adult who is making these decisions? 

53 minutes ago, omilona said:

She has no idea who she is fucking with. I advise her to stay out of any tunnels in Paris.

This sounds really crazy. What about Harry? Why aren't you saying these things about him? 

 

54 minutes ago, omilona said:

Who TF does MM think she is?

I really don't get why people heap hate on Meghan while acting like Harry is just some poor man who she runs all over. I guess I get it other places, but to see the overt sexism here is just kind of shocking. 

They make stupid choices  but the sexism and racism dumped on her is unbelievable. 

[acheronbeach]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I really don't get why people heap hate on Meghan while acting like Harry is just some poor man who she runs all over. I guess I get it other places, but to see the overt sexism here is just kind of shocking. 

They make stupid choices  but the sexism and racism dumped on her is unbelievable. 

As I said above, I think Harry is fully on board with this, but if I had to hazard a guess, I would think the reason people tend to blame Meghan is because Prince Harry's behaviour presented very differently in public until he married Meghan, and since they got together there seems to be an abrupt change to his public behaviour.  Without alternative explanations, the logical conclusion many people come to is that Meghan is the catalyst.  Is that sexism?  

I also suspect that a lot of people perceive Harry as too dim to come up with these sorts of plans, whereas Meghan doesn't come across as dumb, and had a sophisticated image/PR avenues that she developed during her acting career.  That said, I don't think that's true.  Harry isn't an intellect but for a long time he's wanted to just be rich without responsibilities of the BRF.  

[Tiny Bubbles]

Surely they must KNOW that they will not be allowed to merchandize their royal connections??  The conflict of interest issues involved do not seem that difficult to wrap one’s mind around. 
 

Purely speculating, but I wonder if this publicly naive assertion that they will continue as part-time royals while they make a LOT of money through their brand is just to force the British royal family to remove their titles.  Would it be better optics (“look what they did to us!”) than declining the titles themselves? 

I was a big fan of the influence of modern Meghan at one time, but this approach is ridiculous.  

[omilona]

Formergothardite, Meghan has a history of this type of behavior. Ask her siblings, her father and her former husband and friends. This has NOTHING to do with sexism or racism. If you dont understand that going in complete opposition to the Queen  (who explicitly forbade them from making this announcement yesterday) and PoW who funds 95% of their life, is going to end , quite literally,  in a Royal Ass Whipping you have not been paying attention to the David/Diana/Sarah precedent  of this family. There is NO prior evidence of Harry having these opinions or inclination to run away from his home, family and life in the last nearly 40 years. It's not sexist or racist to say as much. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by omilona

[NancyDrewFan1989]

8 hours ago, viii said:

Yeah, I hate that she's getting majority of the push back when in reality, I think it was more likely to be Harry to have wanted this. 

There have been times when Harry has hinted before Meghan he wanted out of the royal life style. The media scrutiny, like uncalled racist trolls and reasonable outrage over the cottage renovations, probably pushed them over the edge. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

Without alternative explanations, the logical conclusion many people come to is that Meghan is the catalyst.  Is that sexism?  

When the conclusion that is drawn is that he was hood winked by a conniving woman rather another possible reason like his actions have changed now that he has his own family (possibly bringing up issues with his mom and paparazzi), or that he now he has someone with whom to go through life making him stronger in pursuing what they both want....or a million other reasons....then I think the common sexist trope is likely.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by HerNameIsBuffy
I can't spell and 'hook wink' isn't a thing

[tabitha2]

All you never wanted to know about Royal Titles courtesy of Peeragenews:

 

https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/2020/01/can-harry-lose-his-styles-and-titles.html?m=1

[NancyDrewFan1989]

42 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I don't know that I like any player in this game. I do get the sense that everyone wants to move on already.

1. Queen Elizabeth is such a unique person. I've always wanted to meet her. She was thrust into a position at the end of an era. Look how much the world, her world has changed, in her 70 years oh throne. And she has this whole family to carry with her.
2.  Charles has been in that shadow. Look at his pain. He has a son and grandson who will likely reign longer then he. His brother's sins are quite probably unforgivable but, well, yeah, he's gonna have to tidy up that shit stain.
3. So here's Harry... It seems to me that now that the boy has gotten himself married, everyone,himself included, realizes there's not much for him to do. Meghan has done some things indepently before. Maybe she's got "ideas" Good, bad. No opinion on her potential as an earner. I'd still like to think it is better that he chose someone who is independent minded and not a socialite who expected to cleave on and live at Frogmore till they died. I see a man who doesn't know where he fits, in a family struggling to reposition itself.
4. It falls to Will and Charles to keep the monarchy in everyone's good graces. If they havent had chats about what happens when Grandmama dies, independent of Grandmama, well, I'd eat my hat. She's a remarkable, semi-permanent, figure of modern history. They have a long road ahead. I get inklings there are real emotions and people under the foofery. And that they do acknowledge the mistakes of their past. They'll want to preserve her legacy and air out the drapes at the same time.
5. As with any family in constant, unyielding display. I hope they can keep doing better.

I see what you are saying. But, it looks like the Queen was unaware of what Meghan and Harry were planning. There are reports that make it sound like Charles was aware and William was in the know. But, the Queen wasn't fully let in until a couple days ago. To add insult to injury, they wanted to sit down with them and work out a plan with them like how much money they will get, security, and royal duties they keep. 

For example when Diana left the monarchy she lost most the security that came with being a royal. She was hounded day and night leading to laws being changed in the British legal system. But, this did not stop tabloid photographers from hunting her down for a photo of her. In the end she ended up in a horrific car accident and, sadly, passing away. They may have wanted to talk to Meghan and Harry to figure out the security they need for them to avoid what happened to Diana happening to them.

When all is said and done they are still going to end up in the papers for some time. There are still going to be paparazzi looking to get the next photo of them. On top of that they have expressed relocating to Canada. However, Canada will not pay for their security detail. If they move to Canada how are they going to be able to get the security they need with money from the crown? Will Meghan be able to get a job as an actress or will the press hound her causing her to be dropped from projects and ruin her career? Will Harry, who apparently did not do well in school, be able to get a working job to support the amount of security they need? Will Archie be able to go to school with out the paparazzi hanging outside the building and playground? Those are questions that, I believe, the senior royals wanted to cover with Meghan and Harry, among many more, as they start this transition. 

[treehugger]

Oh yes, before Meghan came along Harry was such a golden child.  Always respectful of people and wanting to be deeply involved in the monarchy (*heavy sarcasm*) we will just conveniently forget a certain Nazi uniform, drunken partying, nude partying, on again off again girlfriends, etc... etc...

but of course we always give privileged white men who have never had to earn a living a pass.  Wild oats, poor man, and all that. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by treehugger

[ViolaSebastian]

It's so hard to untangle the sometimes unfair and racist criticism that Harry and Meghan received from the rest of this. Regardless of why they want to leave their royal life behind, as far as we can tell, they've done it in a way that's brought a lot of grief to their family. Yes, they're a business, but ultimately they're treating their family poorly. By all means, leave and protect your spouse and kiddo, but don't hurt your relationship with your family members as you do it. This could have been handled much better.

[tabitha2]

Wait! We are forgetting something huge here...
 

The QUEEN has legal custody of Archie and Canada is a common wealth country. In fact this law was out in place 200 years ago to protect Royal children from their parents terrible choices and Stupidity. So she could theoretically  say Archie must stay here or Bring him back. 
 

She won’t because Of the can worms unleashed but it’s her legal right. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

 

13 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Wait! We are forgetting something huge here...
 

The QUEEN has legal custody of Archie and Canada is a common wealth country. In fact this law was out in place 200 years ago to protect Royal children from their parents terrible choices and Stupidity. So she could theoretically  say Archie must stay here or Bring him back. 
 

She won’t because Of the can worms unleashed but it’s her legal right. 

From what I've read it's not legally binding, just an archaic royal prerogative.  But this article says even the (insane) prerogative only applied to the first 6 in line so it wouldn't apply to Archie anyway.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/royals/no-the-queen-doesnt-have-legal-custody-over-her-great-grandchildren/ar-BBMlpzZ

Honestly, the more I learn about these people the more similarities I find with fundies.  How many fundies would love to be able to control their adult children and their choices by maintaining official control of their families.

Edited January 10, 2020 by HerNameIsBuffy

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, acheronbeach said:

ut if I had to hazard a guess, I would think the reason people tend to blame Meghan is because Prince Harry's behaviour presented very differently in public until he married Meghan, and since they got together there seems to be an abrupt change to his public behaviour. 

Really? He has had plenty of public behavior that showed he is self-absorbed and not concerned about how his actions impacted the royal family. It seems really odd that people are going to act like he was this upstanding citizen who never put a toe out of line or had a scandal before Meghan came along.

Also, Harry has gotten married and had a child. Those are some pretty big life changes that can alter your point of view considerably. People don't want to hear it, but it is sexism and racism and just loving to hate a person that causes people to put all the blame on Meghan while acting like Harry is being forced. 

1 hour ago, omilona said:

Ask her siblings, her father and her former husband and friends.

Her family comes off as totally insane and hungry for money and fame. Not sure these people are reliable narrators of the truth any more than Meghan. 

1 hour ago, omilona said:

f you dont understand that going in complete opposition to the Queen  (who explicitly forbade them from making this announcement yesterday) and PoW who funds 95% of their life, is going to end , quite literally,  in a Royal Ass Whipping you have not been paying attention to the David/Diana/Sarah precedent  of this family.

I said it sounded crazy because you are coming off as thinking she will get what she has coming to her if she dies in a tunnel in Paris and not concern that a human being can lose their life. 

1 hour ago, omilona said:

There is NO prior evidence of Harry having these opinions or inclination to run away from his home, family and life in the last nearly 40 years. It's not sexist or racist to say as much. 

Harry's life has shown he makes stupid decisions(just like he is doing now) with little care for the headache he is causing for the Royal Family. He has always acted like this. And no one really knows how he has always felt, like I said before he has gotten married and had a baby, things that can greatly alter your outlook on life. The fact that you would rather blame a woman than admit that a man who has experienced huge changes in his life and always made bad choices is again, making some bad choices is fucking sexist. 

18 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Wait! We are forgetting something huge here...
 

The QUEEN has legal custody of Archie and Canada is a common wealth country. In fact this law was out in place 200 years ago to protect Royal children from their parents terrible choices and Stupidity. So she could theoretically  say Archie must stay here or Bring him back. 
 

She won’t because Of the can worms unleashed but it’s her legal right. 

That is so terrible . It might be her legal right but it would be morally wrong, which is hopefully why she wouldn't do it. 

[viii]

People mag has a good article right now that clearly comes from Harry and Meghan. I don’t think the royal family was quite in the dark as people assume. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

1 hour ago, omilona said:

f you dont understand that going in complete opposition to the Queen  (who explicitly forbade them from making this announcement yesterday) and PoW who funds 95% of their life, is going to end , quite literally,  in a Royal Ass Whipping you have not been paying attention to the David/Diana/Sarah precedent  of this family.

I said it sounded crazy because you are coming off as thinking she will get what she has coming to her if she dies in a tunnel in Paris and not concern that a human being can lose their life. 

I'm sorry, @omilona , are you saying that you think there is literally physically life threatening danger for disobeying his family?  I really hope I'm misreading this because if not that does sound crazy.

 

8 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

he has gotten married and had a baby, things that can greatly alter your outlook on life.

Totally agree.  And speaking for myself, having a baby after losing my parents it brought them back...and all the grief...in an incredibly powerful way.  In addition to the major changes all people go through upon becoming parents, there is an added mind fuck when you've lost a parent(s) you loved.  Because you're not only grieving them again, you're grieving their loss for your child as they'll never know them.  If that makes sense.

[kpmom]

50 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

When the conclusion that is drawn is that he was hook winked by a conniving woman rather another possible reason like his actions have changed now that he has his own family (possibly bringing up issues with his mom and paparazzi), or that he now he has someone with whom to go through life making him stronger in pursuing what they both want....or a million other reasons....then I think the common sexist trope is likely.

 

This!  A thousand times this!

Harry's mother was literally hounded to death by the press.  And this was in 1997, before social media, cell phones with cameras, etc.  I can only imagine things are a million times worse now.  In his shoes, I'd be afraid for my wife too, with all the hatred she is a target for.

  As far as Harry acting much different since marrying Meghan, isn't it possible becoming a husband and father has brought back a lot of his issues with that awful time in his life?  He's admitted he went through depression and sought therapy as a young adult regarding his mother's death. 

I don't know whether Harry and Meghan handled this whole thing right, I don't follow them all that much, but really, do they have to be "Royals" if they don't want to?  I mean, Harry's about 6th (? I think) in line now.  The chances are slim he'd ever be king.  Why can't he get on with his life in the way he sees fit?