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HerNameIsBuffy

Jana 9 - So, what is Jana (and her Instagram) being primed for, and why?

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mollysmom

Personally I don't think it's weird (but I was raised fundie so take my opinion with a grain of salt) I personally wouldn't say it but that's just because my family never showed affection or said "I love you" (which is funny to me because now I'm the complete opposite....very affectionate and if I love you I make sure you know it) 

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Loolaa

@mollysmom, it's interesting to hear that, as you were raised fundie. For me, this expression reads as part of the whole stunted growth of women that fundiedom encourages. Jana, as an unmarried woman, is not a considered an adult, so she's still daddy's little girl. 

The only context where I wouldn't see it as out of place is a wedding. Though it would still make me cringe a little... 

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mollysmom

I agree 100% with the stunted growth in fundiedom. As much as I hate to admit I'm still very emotionally immature. And that's exactly what they teach.....(at least in my group they did), you are under your father until you get married, then you are under your husband so if you never get married you are always under your dad. I was not allowed to move out of my parents house (or even get a drivers license) until I got married, which is a whole nother story in itself!!! It's really messed up. They are not doing these girls ANY favors!

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Loolaa

I'm glad you found your way out!

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DillyDally

@Loolaa Reserved German here, I think it's super icky, too. After all, Jana is a grown woman.

Thumbs up though for Jana learning all that "manly" stuff. She seems to have a lot of handiwork skills for a SAHD.

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oldfashionedgal
4 hours ago, Loolaa said:

Jana has as Father's Day post up on Instagram. Link.

Here's the text for those who don't want to give the clicks:

  Hide contents

Happy Father’s Day to the most wonderful Dad in the whole WORLD! 🌎
.
My Dad is the one who has taught me so many skills—from tiling floors, basic plumbing & electrical, painting, and car maintenance, to how to get the best deals. He taught me how to drive, helped me buy my first car, and has let me try my hand at design on his different real estate projects... even if it means spending a little more time and money to correct something I’ve messed up on (sometimes we learn by trial and error). 🙈 Dad has taught me so much as we work on different projects! Whether it’s designing a home or business space, picking out paint colors, flooring, windows or doors, he’s the mastermind, and I love learning from him and doing projects together with him!! 🥰
.
Dad is a giver. Always giving of his own goods and supplies without expecting anything in return. He’s the first one to start a party no matter the occasion. 🥳 He’s the one that pushes us out of our “comfort zone” (for which I am grateful.... at times.) 😜 We all need one of those people in our lives! He is quick to ask for forgiveness. He is a humble man. A man of patience, kindness, compassion, determination, strong. He is the one that leads our family and points us to Christ no matter the circumstance. He’s my Daddy and I’m his little girl. Couldn’t have prayed for a better Dad and can only hope to find a man like him to marry someday!!
.
Daddy—Happy Father’s Day from your little girl! I love you so much! ❤️ @duggarfam

 

"He’s my Daddy and I’m his little girl" ... ehmmm, is that icky? A cultural thing? Just normal? I would never say that, but then I'm from a stoic Nordic family, we don't do feelings.

I think it sounds so odd because it’s been publically shared. The first Christmas after my wedding I gave my dad a framed photo of me in my dress holding a sign which read “always your little girl”. 

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Bobology

@mollysmom or others who have once lived the life -- hoping you can answer a question for me. I asked it in general once before and don't remember any responses to it. In recent times (maybe Carlin's wedding?) it was assumed Jana was somewhere taking care of Gideon while Joy or Joy and Austin were doing something. It was said as though Jana may have been obligated to take care of Gideon. (And I believe this was all supposition anyway.)

So my question is: now that Joy is married, and moreover a mom, does that put her above Jana in the authority chain? I understand Jana is still a 'girl under her dad's headship,' so does she have to be available to do things Joy wants her do? Would Joy need to go through JB and let him suggest that Jana do it? Do either Joy or JB simply say something like, "The lord has laid it on my heart that you do this for me/your sister."? Or does Jana have complete authority over her own self and the ability to say, "No, can't, sorry, not this time." to requests by sisters/brothers that are on their own?

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theotherelise

It sounds southern to me. I know a lot of people from southern Missouri who talk about "Daddy" well into their golden years with comments similar to Jana's. 

It would be a creepy thing for me to say about my dad because we've never had that kind of interaction or relationship. 

I do find it interesting how much the Bates and Duggars and other families here gush about their parents even as they are denied independence and agency. Yet then you have other families (Jeubs and Penningtons come to mind because I've been on those threads recently) where the kids chafe at the control and leave or rebel in some way. I wonder what makes some see their lack of freedom and desire more while others are content with the koolaid. 

Of course the money and comfort level can be different. At this point the Duggar and Bates kidults actually seem to get to do a lot of lower-stakes independent things like travelling with friends, pursuing hobbies, enjoying social media, making their own money (??) etc. They also seem to have a lot more opportunity for friendships with people in similar family-styles, not just a few family friends they are allowed to interact with in large groups. The duggar and bates families also were a lot more laid back structurally. Sure they embraced some of the TTUAP discipline early on and were extremely limited in their choice and relationships, but they never seemed to have the military school style schedules and deadlines. Yet the duggar women also seem to have no resentment towards their parents for letting their abuser continue his pattern and remain in the house. I know they were trained to keep sweet and forgive, but for many in these cults, those abusive events would simmer until they are finally able to break off.

In the end, at least with the example families I provided, I think the Jeub and Pennington kids who have gotten away display a significant level of critical thinking, reflection, awareness, and strategic thinking. Evidence of that kind of thinking from duggar and bates adult kids has not been shown on tv or social media, IMO.

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JanasTattooParlor
6 hours ago, Loolaa said:

"He’s my Daddy and I’m his little girl" ... ehmmm, is that icky? A cultural thing? Just normal? I would never say that, but then I'm from a stoic Nordic family, we don't do feelings.

See this is not something I say, mostly because my dad and I don’t have a relationship, but a lot of the people I know call their dads “Daddy” and many of their social media posts yesterday were about how wonderful their “daddy” has been. Many of the women, most of whom were married, said something along the lines of being their dad’s little girl. I’m in the American South and it’s always been pretty common here for daughters to call their dads “daddy.”

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SassyPants

What’s odd is that at 29 she calls herself a little girl, yet at 8 she was called on to be her mom’s right hand helper and the family’s #1 sisterMOM. I’ve said it before, it is so odd to me that these girls were given and expected to carry an adult parenting load as mere children, but have had most appropriate adult freedoms curtailed as they have grown older and remained unmarried. I think this paradox is what drives the young marriages for most; the freedom to be consider d an adult in their cult. Now I do think that beyond 25, JB and M do lighten up a bit, and Jana (as did JD)has enjoyed the rewards for waiting to marriage that none of the other girls did.

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HerNameIsBuffy
6 hours ago, mollysmom said:

Personally I don't think it's weird (but I was raised fundie so take my opinion with a grain of salt) I personally wouldn't say it but that's just because my family never showed affection or said "I love you" (which is funny to me because now I'm the complete opposite....very affectionate and if I love you I make sure you know it) 

Not raised fundy and I don’t think it’s weird either.

i wouldn’t post it publicly but I feel the sentiment.

i was struck by somethibg in her post, that JB is quick to ask for forgiveness.  If that’s true in a non-toxic* way that’s a very admirable quality. 

The toxic way would be manipulating forgiveness due to obligation to Jesus or such.

1 hour ago, theotherelise said:

but they never seemed to have the military school style schedules and deadlines.

Incompatible with Duggar time.  The parents would need self discipline to pull that off.

Steve Maxwell absolutely.  JB?  No way.

1 hour ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

See this is not something I say, mostly because my dad and I don’t have a relationship, but a lot of the people I know call their dads “Daddy” and many of their social media posts yesterday were about how wonderful their “daddy” has been. Many of the women, most of whom were married, said something along the lines of being their dad’s little girl. I’m in the American South and it’s always been pretty common here for daughters to call their dads “daddy.”

Not southern but it’s what I always called mine and how I still refer to him most of the time now that he’s gone.

Its almost a term of endearment.

When I wasn’t particularly happy with him (or now, with his memory) it’s “Dad.”  

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Daisy0322

I don't think daddy is odd i don't even think it's odd to sign it love, your little girl. However the sentence "he's my daddy and Im his little girl" is weird as hell to me lol. I don't even get along that well with my parents and I call them mama and daddy but most of my family refers to their parents that way and my husband also calls his mom mama. 

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BachelorToTheRapture

For me part of why it's so weird is that it's followed by her saying that she wants to marry a man just like him. That sentence in isolation isn't super weird, especially for people who have a close father/daughter relationship. The context of the control that we know he still has over her as an adult makes it much weirder IMO

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luv2laugh
Posted (edited)
On 6/8/2019 at 9:11 AM, OyToTheVey said:

Honestly, it's not even in fundieland that it's like this. I'm almost 36 never married. Men are slim pickings everywhere. I get a lot of the 60 year olds that want a much younger wife or the ones that have never gotten out of their moms basements at 40. I really wish I was exaggerating. But it might also be that I'm in NYC and choosing a guy here is really difficult. I don't fault Jana for waiting. Her pickings are even slimmer than mine. Her target demographic is tiny and they mostly get married in their early 20's. I mean look at her sisters husbands. I think the only one that's got real potential is Ben. But that's also because Jessa snagged him at 19 and he's young enough to mold. Plus he seems to be growing as a person. 

Why is it harder in NYC? I thought most people wait long to settle down in NYC? Asking because I’m genuinely curious.

Edited by luv2laugh

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mollysmom
6 hours ago, Bobology said:

@mollysmom or others who have once lived the life -- hoping you can answer a question for me. I asked it in general once before and don't remember any responses to it. In recent times (maybe Carlin's wedding?) it was assumed Jana was somewhere taking care of Gideon while Joy or Joy and Austin were doing something. It was said as though Jana may have been obligated to take care of Gideon. (And I believe this was all supposition anyway.)

So my question is: now that Joy is married, and moreover a mom, does that put her above Jana in the authority chain? I understand Jana is still a 'girl under her dad's headship,' so does she have to be available to do things Joy wants her do? Would Joy need to go through JB and let him suggest that Jana do it? Do either Joy or JB simply say something like, "The lord has laid it on my heart that you do this for me/your sister."? Or does Jana have complete authority over her own self and the ability to say, "No, can't, sorry, not this time." to requests by sisters/brothers that are on their own?

Hmm...that's a good question. I can only speak for my family but in my experience we were not adults, or capable of making our own decisions unless we were married. For example, I was 24 when I got married but wasn't considered an adult until then. This applied only for the girls. My parents were MUCH more lenient with the boys. Total double standard. 

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TatiFish9
6 hours ago, BachelorToTheRapture said:

For me part of why it's so weird is that it's followed by her saying that she wants to marry a man just like him. That sentence in isolation isn't super weird, especially for people who have a close father/daughter relationship. The context of the control that we know he still has over her as an adult makes it much weirder IMO

I agree. I thought her father's day post confirmed what many have concluded here. Jana is waiting for her prince charming who is essentially her dad but better.

As we all know, in emotional adolescence, we tend to see our parents/caregivers in extremes. They are either the worse things, don't know what they are talking about, ruin our lives or deserve our decided indifference etc vs. they are some form of perfection that we admire, love and adore (for the most ) in a skewed way.

Then maturity sets in. We realize and subsequently accept our parents as complex and flawed individuals combining both great and bad qualities like all humans, including ourselves.  It is important to say, some adults in general population make it all the way to golden age without leaving emotional adolescence. (Some children have hard lives and realize it before projected adolescence). But with fundies, the prevalence of prolonged emotional adolescence correlates with their obsession with parental authority and covering over their lives. 

If Jana is waiting for a fundie man just like, if not better than her father, well that pretty much explains why she is still at home.  Because most of the young guys who were probably checking for her when she was younger could not compete with Jim Bob's influence on her life and their segment of fundiedom - at the stage and experience level they were seeking her out. She will probably marry an older man when (fundie age wise) it is more acceptable for her to do so.

I am not entirely comfortable with comparing these fundies, but I find it interesting that Jana is declaring her unyielding commitment to finding her father in husband form just as Jill has grown to understand a husband and father are two different things. Would it not be some sort of *plot twist* if Jana ended up being #daddyslittlegirl while Jill matures to be *some sort* of *#freethinker.🤔

*free from Duggar family centralized thought not necessarily free from fundiedom itself.

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tabitha2

At this point Jill has plenty more life experience and knowledge of womanly matters than Jana does but then All the adult sisters do. 

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TatiFish9
10 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

At this point Jill has plenty more life experience and knowledge of womanly matters than Jana does but then All the adult sisters do. 

You know I was watching a video of  Priscilla Waller speaking. She still refers to her parent's authority despite being married with several kids by now. I think many of them still seek their parent's advice and approval for major decisions after marriage despite what we are lead to believe otherwise. I know I was doing it myself. Actually, we saw Josh doing the same before going to D.C. now that I think of it. This is probably especially so for Gen2A and those married to others of their denom fundies. I wonder if like you said, it is the womanly experiences or who the headship transfers to. I think both Jill and Jinger married out of fundiedom, but still conservative Christian. Their headships were not raised to be daddyhubbies. Maybe they have influenced these women. I also think living abroad/ away from the Duggar hivemind has helped both Jill and Jinger learn to think outside of their childhood boxes just a tad bit. 

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SassyPants
14 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

At this point Jill has plenty more life experience and knowledge of womanly matters than Jana does but then All the adult sisters do. 

Womanly experience, yes ( p-v sex, nursing, hormonal changes), birth, pregnancy). Life experiences, nah. What are those ladies doing outside of having sex and giving birth, that Jana is not doing or hasn’t done? 

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NorthernGal

I don't see a problem with Jana or any daughter being a Daddy's girl or refering to her Dad as Daddy.  I think Jana refering to her being a Daddy's girl is not so much a fundie thing as it is a regional/ cultural thing.  I would much rather hear a daughter call her father Daddy than a wife refer to her husband as Daddy.  As in "Who's your daddy?"  (in sexual references) That to me is fully and truly messed up.  

I was/am the youngest of 6 girls. I was always teased as being "Daddy's Girl"  I never refered to him as Daddy but I know being the youngest I held a special place in his heart and he in mine.  My Dad was one a truly respectful man when it came to us girls and never ever crossed a line that would have made us feel uncomfortable about being a "Daddy's Girl"  

 

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tabitha2

She has never had to live with a person not her family.  She has never had to learn to live with another persons habits, quirks, hang ups, another persons  family members to learn to deal with, their foibles and opinions. 

A brother or baby sister you know instinctively how to deal with doesn’t make you grow up but the challenge of being stuck with a new person you may or may not know very well in a small house sure does. Or it should at least. 

 

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Daisy0322
19 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

She has never had to live with a person not her family.  She has never had to learn to live with another persons habits, quirks, hang ups, another persons  family members to learn to deal with, their foibles and opinions. 

A brother or baby sister you know instinctively how to deal with doesn’t make you grow up but the challenge of being stuck with a new person you may or may not know very well in a small house sure does. Or it should at least. 

 

Yes possibly Jana has never even paid a bill or had a bank account with her name on it, she's never been out in public with a male that is not family, she's never had her own house or even her own space, even if they see the husband as the authority the wives do still have more autonomy then the girls at home, she's never had that first time your husband lets you down and how you repair the relationship (they may handle it differently then most of us would be they still deal with it), etc 

on the other hand I think she's worked on more hobbies and skills than the married girls. It's probably just person to person but if I had to be a fundy women I think I'd rather be married. At least you could pick a husband that you like their rules instead of being stuck with whatever your father decides. 

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Perrierwithlemon
On 6/17/2019 at 7:53 AM, SassyPants said:

What’s odd is that at 29 she calls herself a little girl, yet at 8 she was called on to be her mom’s right hand helper and the family’s #1 sisterMOM.

I think it's very odd too. And here are my three theories on it:

PSYCOLOGICAL: I'm not sure if this is the right term for this, but arrested development? She was forced to have a lot of responsibilities at a young age. I don't know much about her childhood, but she could have not had a healthy amount of time to truly be a "little girl." So maybe she's hanging onto that identity and unconsciously wrestles with it because of how she was raised. Also, all of her adult sisters are married, and she could be included with her unmarried, younger sisters (either by herself or by her family/parents).

RELATIONAL: Maybe JimBob and Jana actually do refer to each other this way? Still, I don't think they used the best word choices, as in father/(firstborn)daughter and not daddy/little girl.  I know my own experience does not disqualify Jana's experience, but as an anecdotal example, my dad used to call me his "precious firstborn daughter" when I was little. If I were to put that in a (private!) letter/note to him, he would understand that reference. So maybe that's what Jana is doing here? Still, if that is the case, it is quite out of context in a public post.

CULTURAL: This echoes one of the foundational beliefs for fundie culture -- male headship. That "he's my daddy and I'm his little girl" statement shows so much about their beliefs. Maybe it's a spin on that "daddy's little girl" saying because of what she said in the previous paragraph(s) about having so many of those "handyman" skills. It's sad that she could have intended it that way because many handyman skills (such as those JimBob taught her) are just good adulting skills. No need to gender them, especially in this day and age. Anyway, "daddy's little girl" theory aside, the "little girl" part is reminiscent of the amount of freedom she has under her parents' roof. I used to feel sorry for her, and while I still do to a small degree, I think she is choosing this life for herself. And now the sad part is that she seems content with it.

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Lizzybet
Posted (edited)
On 6/17/2019 at 11:43 AM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Not southern but it’s what I always called mine and how I still refer to him most of the time now that he’s gone.

Its almost a term of endearment.

When I wasn’t particularly happy with him (or now, with his memory) it’s “Dad.”  

I’m Irish and Italian, the child of immigrant parents, born in a large city in the NY Metro area (raised Catholic) and my sister and I both (and still do with each other) referred to our father as ‘Daddy’, even when we were PO’d at him, which was a LOT of the time.

Edited by Lizzybet
Misspelling

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just_ordinary
On 6/17/2019 at 6:27 PM, Daisy0322 said:

I don't think daddy is odd i don't even think it's odd to sign it love, your little girl. However the sentence "he's my daddy and Im his little girl" is weird as hell to me lol. I don't even get along that well with my parents and I call them mama and daddy but most of my family refers to their parents that way and my husband also calls his mom mama. 

Agree. I don’t think it’s weird to call your parents mummy and daddy or to feel and express that you are still their little baby. But from experience most use „little baby/boy/girl“ only in very sentimental moments (wedding, birthdays, new babies), in jest or it’s more an internal feeling. It’s the way Jana has written the post that makes it sound strange. It’s like all the bad cliches are flowing with it: superficial not so smart girl, putting dad on a pedestal, clinging on dad, dad being a bit too involved in his daughters (love) life....

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