Josie & Kelton 5: I just see babies having baby showers!

[theotherelise]

7 hours ago, meee said:

Wait, they're not? What are they?

The church association they are now part of and Jeremy is studying under is a non-denominational Protestant church that follows Calvinism theology. The church he led in TX was the same.

biggest theological difference between baptist (Armenianism) and reformed (Calvinism) is summarized broadly by the tulip and daisy acrostics and even more broadly by whether one believes in free will:

Spoiler

CALVINISM: TULIP
T: Total depravity – Every facet of every person everywhere has been marred by sin.
U: Unconditional election – God chooses those to be saved based solely on His will.
L: Limited atonement – Christ died only for those who are elect.
I: Irresistible grace – The elect cannot resist God’s call to salvation.
P: Perseverance of the saints – The elect cannot lose their salvation.

ARMINIANISM: DAISY*
? Diminished depravity – Humanity is depraved, but God uses prevenient grace to restore man’s ability to respond to Him.
A: Abrogated election – God bases His election on His foreknowledge of those who freely choose Him.
I: Impersonal atonement – Christ died for everyone, making salvation possible for everyone.
S: Sedentary grace – God calls everyone to salvation, but many freely reject it.
Y: Yieldable justification – The saved can fall from grace and lose their salvation.

But aside from the different beliefs about grace and means of salvation, reform churches like Grace Community don’t outlaw alcohol. They also allow drums in worship and usually use ESV instead of KJV biblical translations.  Baptist churches have frequent altar calls and emphasize the sinners prayer. The culture is different, but I’m sure to many outside Protestantism, it looks much the same.

Both Baptist and Calvinist churches have a wide range of beliefs about gender roles. The church JinJer are a part of is very strict complementarian and would not allow women to be elders or preach or likely teach men, but would not prevent women from working outside the home or getting education. They would claim the roles are distinct but not unequal (eye roll). 

There are shades of fundamentalism in every religious ideology. JinJer are still very strict on that end, but the rules are a bit different now.

(honestly, it would be helpful to think of it as a big circle of Christianity and the closer you get to the center the more fundie, but the circle is divided like a pie chart and each section has different flavors of belief.)

[Melissa1977]

I think that drinking alcohol shouldn't be taken as an evidence of someone being less fundie. First of all, some fundies drink, so the non-alcohol rule is not universal in fundamentalist circles. And second, frankly, the last that our society needs is a bunch of agressively raised young patriarchs discovering the ups and downs of the alcohol.

I drink and I may sounds hyprocrite telling that, I know. But I would be less than thrilled watching Bates boys drinking.

 

[EmmaWoodhouse]

The teacher/theologian Jeremy is associated with, John MacArthur, is highly revered in the Baptist, Calvinist church where my husband and I met. The first time we had a serious conversation, he quoted MacArthur any time there was an opening. I told him I wanted to know what he thought, not what a theologian I didn't care for thought. After we were engaged, he told me he legitimately thought that quoting MacArthur was a way to pick up chicks. The poor guy ran off a lot of women before we met, haha. 

Rambling anecdote to note that sometimes Baptist and Calvinist circles can intersect and the results are *interesting*

[singsingsing]

Tons of Baptist churches are Reformed. In fact I tried to find a Baptist church in my city that wasn’t Reformed a while back and came up empty. They were all Reformed.

[haroldtheyrefundies]

On 11/27/2019 at 1:10 PM, theotherelise said:

JinJer are the only ones that aren't still Baptist, so that seems like a pretty good bet to me.

wait, I thought Jessa converted into a Calvinist when she married Ben? Is that just another flavor of Baptist? 

[grandmadugger]

3 hours ago, haroldtheyrefundies said:

wait, I thought Jessa converted into a Calvinist when she married Ben? Is that just another flavor of Baptist? 

Calvinist can be any denomination though you see more in the Baptist or non-denominational groups then you will in like Methodist church. Though there’s been infighting in the Baptist denomination over it. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

Josie's christmas tree decor is um interesting girl has to much time on her hands.

[nvmbr02]

I think her tree is nice. But we always had handmade ornaments on our tree growing up. I still have a couple that were made by my great-grandmother and given to me. The first tree my husband and I had together was mostly handmade ornaments that my mom gave me that she had made with my grandmother and great grandmother. I then made a bunch of those cinnamon applesauce ornaments to fill in the blank spaces. Plus they make the tree smell really nice. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by nvmbr02
typo

[JermajestyDuggar]

I will say it. Her tree is ugly. I’m over Josie’s boring no color style. Fangirls think it’s so cool and edgy but it’s just BLAND. And some of it is downright ugly. 

[Johannah]

Where do you see her tree?

[Melissa1977]

5 hours ago, Johannah said:

Where do you see her tree?

Instagram. Just watch it on the DIY circle.

I kinda liked her tree, mostly because every year I plan to decorate mine with crafts and I never find the time. 

 

[llucie]

Thats a sad and bare looking christmas tree. The orange garland looked like a cool idea, but maybe not for a tree, and not as the sole decoration paired with 4 tiny macrame self made ornaments.

[princessmahina]

Oh that tree looks so sad. Bit of a Charlie Brown tree if you ask me. 

[onyourwayhome]

Officially retired from salon life. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 hours ago, onyourwayhome said:

Officially retired from salon life. 

 

Of course. No surprise there. None of these girls will work a full time job after their first baby. Michael has infertility so she’s allowed to be a nurse. 

There is nothing wrong with being a SAHM. I’m one. However I plan on going back when my kids are older. These girls likely won’t be able to go back to work one day because they will have to homeschool their litter and that’s a full time job in itself. Josie is just so young. She barely had any time to work at the salon. I just wish these second gen fundies would get on the birth control train. Choosing when and how many children you have gives you so many more choices in your own life. 

[sparrow]

I really wonder what this “exciting new thing” is going to be.

Also, I really wish I had her hair. But then again, I know she styles it, and I too could have nice hair if I were willing. ::ennui::

[lexiloumarie]

She tagged someone who does events like weddings and such in a recent post - maybe she's joining them? I'd imagine being the on site stylist in that situation would be much easier to work around the filming schedule and fundie expectations.

[JanasTattooParlor]

1 hour ago, lexiloumarie said:

She tagged someone who does events like weddings and such in a recent post - maybe she's joining them? I'd imagine being the on site stylist in that situation would be much easier to work around the filming schedule and fundie expectations.

Yeah she tagged them because she did hair and makeup for them for a styled wedding shoot. Before she posted about her new news, she said on her story that it felt great to come home to willow after a long days work. It sounds like she’ll continue working in some capacity in the future which is a great step forward since other than the boutique, she’d be the only Bates daughter working once they’ve become a parent. It could be a great example to the younger girls that you can be a working mother and not be hated by God for it. 

[SassyPants]

Alyssa Webster also worked after motherhood. She and John cleaned businesses in the evenings.

 

Josie presents as a likable, enthusiast and fairly independent young woman. Much like Alyssa, she also acts older than her numeric age. What really  impresses me about Josie is that she seems neither overwhelmed nor consumed by motherhood. Good for her. It’s nice to see a very young person  with the kind of life she’s led to this point, not being all God and babies all.the.damn.time.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

My money is on a beauty/health MLM.  Too  many capitals and exclamation points for normal work, I bet.

[victoriasponge]

4 minutes ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

My money is on a beauty/health MLM.  Too  many capitals and exclamation points for normal work, I bet.

If it's Monat, she's going to make all her 'fans' bald.

Fanfuckingtastic.

'I will still be helping people feel their best and making their dreams come true' is a real red flag for an MLM for me. Selling overpriced beauty products and evangelising to get people to join under you. She might even be vaguely successful thanks to the built-in downline.

[mollysmom]

I have an acquantance (I wrote "friend" but after thinking about it I realized she only reached out to me after all these years after she started selling Monat.....typical)  that shills Monat. I've never bought it because I don't, as a rule, support or encourage that stuff (MLM's) but does Monat really make people go bald?! 

[victoriasponge]

@mollysmom Some sources. I mean, it's not proven, but anecdotally it's not fab. It's also horrifically expensive.

https://www.abcactionnews.com/money/consumer/taking-action-for-you/hundreds-across-the-country-say-monat-shampoo-caused-balding-scalp-sores

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/aunbc6/monat_a_review/

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/e7hb0d/update_a_well_known_mlm_destroyed_my_hair_here_is/

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/jun/01/online-beauty-schemes-selling-social-media-younique-arbonne

[candygirl200413]

I was thinking maybe she's working with a photographer and makeup artist for weddings? Only because that photo she showed she tagged a photographer she's friends with and a makeup artist/hair stylist she knew from her old job.

[HideousGreenShirt]

I'm also betting on freelance wedding/photoshoot hair stylist. I worked as a freelance media makeup artist for about a decade and can see it fitting into her life and schedule (provided she has good childcare access and limits family size). I will say that shoots are completely exhausting. 

I won't be surprised if she's starting a YouTube as that too would fit in with her lifestyle and personal brand. 

Regarding her tree and somewhat dull homemade Christmas decor, I have the same thoughts that I have when people talk about Alyssa's crazy-bright bridesmaid dresses. 

These girls have literally never, ever been able to choose what they want before marriage. They've always had to go along with the majority whether they like it or not and the quieter, less aggressive personalities lose out the most. How they dress, how their bedrooms are decorated, their "career" and "education" options, what they should believe, even the way they wear their hair have ALL been dictated and enforced right up until they say I do. 

If Josie is super into the minimalist, monochromatic, homemade Pinterest Christmas decor this year then I say good for her. Give her a chance to experiment with her style. 

I can't snark on their early choices with clothes, decor, styles etc because these are their first actual chances to have something that is truly their own.

I will not extend the same leniency to her religious beliefs.