Michael Jackson - HBO - Neverland Special

[karen77]

Has anyone else watched this? I caught parts of it, (not all of it) but, it was crazy! I am curious to hear what other people think. 

One thing I really can't believe is how naive their parents were! I have a 6.5 year old and I would NEVER let him sleep in some older celebrities room alone. (or any other older persons room for that matter)

Here are a few articles with a little info in them.

https://people.com/home/inside-neverland-all-the-ways-michael-jacksons-kid-friendly-ranch-allegedly-hid-his-abuse-of-boys/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/03/05/most-striking-revelations-part-leaving-neverland-hbos-michael-jackson-documentary/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c9f33309a2cb

 

[faraway]

I watched both parts and it was just... captivating. I know this has been criticized as one-sided but I liked how the documentary just let the people tell their story. The mothers/parents trusting a grown man so blindly with heir small children was absolutely shocking.

There is so much drama going on if the accusers are credible or not. I personally see no reason not to believe them. I find them lying in the past to protect their abuser very plausible. I would not be surprised if more accusers come forward in the months and years to come, this may encourage others to speak up. I know others have in the past but have been shut down.

[Imaginary_Wonderland]

I saw the first part tonight on tv. I was totally gripped by it, and even with knowing about MJ's interest in spending time with kids, the details of how it played for each boy was interesting. There was definite grooming going on there too. Although some of the more intimate details were quite graphic and hard to listen to and imagine them as little boys.

I found the hate and anger towards these men on twitter from MJ fans quite surprising too, not surprising but just the sheer numbers calling them liars and all sorts, like 90% or something. So much denial. Yes, they were stoic for the most part, but there were moments you could see the hurt in his eyes, there was a rawness in the retelling at moments.

The mothers I think were blinded by the fame and luxury lifestyle and gifts. I do think one of the mothers might have known or suspected. She mentioned listening at the door to check on what they were doing, and fobbed it off as reading poetry. This is the second documentary in 2 weeks were parents turning a blind eye to a grown adult wanting to sleep with their child, and allowing it. Just very strange behaviour.

[JenniferJuniper]

I've got an hour left of the second part.   

I don't know about anyone else, but I always figured the full truth about Jackson would come tumbling out sooner or later.  I'm surprised it took this long, but we're talking about boys and young men.  And at least the two in the documentary truly loved the guy.

Neverland.  A playground for a rich, sick pedo to groom his little victims and their starstruck parents.  Such foolish, selfish people.  "Billy, is Michael Jackson touching you in bed at night?"   "No, Mom!"   "Okay, I'll see you in a few weeks!  Don't worry, Michael, I'll lock all four doors behind me". 

[AliceInFundyland]

This is sad and horrifying. These poor men.

I don’t want to watch the rest of this. I have to. I have to destroy his music. It sucks. Again. Creative genius destroyed by serious problems.

I think...probably...it’s best Michael passed. There would not/could not have been any logical outcome for someone of his wattage. He’d never have made it to a jail. I don’t think they would ever have felt free to speak otherwise.

Good for Oprah for helping, too.

I hope R.Kelly makes it to jail. 

 

[Vivi_music]

I have finally come around to watching it. This is a sad story. I feel so bad for those two men.

I too suspected something would eventually come out about MJ. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

I also enjoyed Oprah's special (available for free on Youtube). She interviewed the two survivors and the film director and I thought she brought a lot of nice points about how it is so hard for victims to speak up, and why it took them years to be able to speak up. She said many times that this documentary was above MJ. The movie was important to understand the process of grooming a child. (*Queen Oprah!*). I also thought her special helped me understand the two mother's a bit better and be less judgemental. She said that basically, the two Mom's were also groomed in a way, seduced and smitten and blinded by MJ.

I also am completly baffled by some MJ fans reaction's. The survivors have basically received DEATH THREATS. Can you imagine putting one of your hardest life story out there to liberate yourself from the shame and lie, and then receiving death threats? That is so awful. Personally, I don't see any reasons not to believe Wade and James. I can understand the fans might be disappointed, and even bitterly so. It is hard to imagine someone who did so many wonderful things also doing those awful and horrible acts. And maybe for a lot of people, it is easier to see all black and white (no pun intended on the MJ song), and are unable to see grey areas. Some people like MJ can have a lot of good and a lot of bad inside them too.

We talked about it at work a bit during lunch break. One of my colleagues said she was unable to dissociate the music and artistry from the individual he was. So she said she would not been listening to his music anymore. I agree for now that it is hard, because I hear the songs and only think about the documentary. Maybe one day I'll be able to see his musical creations separate from the person he was.

[Ozlsn]

I watched the first part of this on Sunday, haven't made it through the second yet. It is truly shocking to me. This article summed up some of how I'm feeling about it - it was all in almost plain view, so why did we just... accept it? 

It's easy to see so much in hindsight, but a lot of this was being actively talked about at the time. I guess trust and celebrity and a whole range of things went into hiding it in plain sight, but even so it just is so strange that so many people shrugged and essentially went 'he's rich and a bit weird, but probably harmless.'

Apart from anything else what on earth were his staff thinking was going on?

On 3/11/2019 at 5:13 AM, Vivi_music said:

Personally, I don't see any reasons not to believe Wade and James.

Basically. The Royal Commission into Institutional Sexual Abuse found that it took victims an average of 27 years to tell someone. Wade and James fall right into that range. 

[AmazonGrace]

Haven't seen it yet but I always figured there must have been something shady going on. A grown man just doesn't collect little boys to sleep in  his bedroom merely to teach them French and color mandalas with them.  (And even if one did, it'd still be weird.)

I am feeling less conflicted about still liking some Michael Jackson songs because he's dead. Creeps that are still alive and profiting from my audience are harder to separate the art from the artist I think.  

[Terrie]

What makes me angry is that people are going "They're suing for money. That proves they're lying." Um, what? That's what you're supposed to do as a crime victim. Jaycee Duggard got monetary compensation. Does that mean SHE was lying?

[motelmum]

I made myself watch it the other day. I am so very very glad that others are finally seeing him for what he is. 

Since watching the interview with Martin Bashir I have had no doubt in my mind that Jackson was a peadophile. I forget how old I was, I think I watched it on the Australia 60 Minutes, however I threw out all of his music and refuse to listen or watch anything by him.  I always was horrified when I would see young children sing his songs or they put his music in films.  I was gobsmacked that he was not convicted.

[SilverBeach]

MJ is cancelled. Looking back, he was hiding in plain sight, just like R, Kelly. MJ treated boys like women. Those who don't want to believe that celebrities can be reprehensible sex offenders are right up there with climate change deniers and anti-vaxxers, they are just stupid and ignorant people.

It wasn't easy to cancel MJ, I had kind of bought into the trope that he was asexual and had the mentality of a child himself, and that perhaps some of his actions were misinterpreted. He likely wanted us to believe these things. I always thought he was just tone deaf for sleeping in the same bed with children. Actually, he thought he was above the law ("I always get what I want"), and used his celebrity to cover up his crimes. He may have even thought he loved those boys so it wasn't criminal, sick fuck that he was. But, like with many other things, where there is smoke there is fire.

It was hard watching the documentary and the Oprah show that followed, the pain was palpable and the graphic descriptions difficult to hear. Made me sick. I commend both men for finally speaking their truth, as many others will never get the chance. As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse myself, I know that there is a horrible residual impact that follows you way into adulthood. Survivors have nothing to gain from making shit up and being vilified for revealing the truth. I wish nothing but peace for both men, especially Safechuck who seemed to be struggling more than Robson.