Bradrick! Divorce Part 4: With at Least One Remarriage

[Palimpsest]

9 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

The Williams family lived in Mount Vernon, about 60 miles north of Seattle up I-5,

I thought they lived in Sedro Woolley, Washington but perhaps it is the same thing.  I don't think their church was ever identified but they had one.  Some church members testified at the trial, but they said that the family was becoming increasingly extreme in their beliefs.

Good overview of the case here, if anyone is interested:  Trigger warnings for abuse, of course.  http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/11/hana_williams_the_tragic_death_of_an_ethiopian_adoptee_and_how_it_could.html

As for Fundies, I expect there are plenty in the PNW.  As with New England you probably don't notice them until you look - and then they come crawling out of the woodwork all over the place.

And I'll just toss in here that John Shrader originally planned to covert the Dalles, Oregon, and his original Sending Church in Washington is as Fundie as you can get.

https://www.valleybaptistonline.com/missions

[Howl]

57 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Good overview of the case here, if anyone is interested:  Trigger warnings for abuse, of course.  

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/11/hana_williams_the_tragic_death_of_an_ethiopian_adoptee_and_how_it_could.html

Those adoptive "parents" were convicted of murder with the mother receiving a longer sentence (37 years) than her husband  (28 years).  

[Palimpsest]

15 minutes ago, Howl said:

Those adoptive "parents" were convicted of murder with the mother receiving a longer sentence (37 years) than her husband  (28 years).  

That is because Carri carried out the majority of the torture.  And the judge threw the book at the pair of them giving the highest possible sentences for the crimes.  Thank you, Judge Cook.

It won't bring Hana Alemu back, or make Immanuel's suffering go away, but it was a satisfying verdict and sentences for everyone who followed the case.

Judge Susan Cook summing up:

Quote

But sentences are not merely for the community’s safety, Judge Susan Cook said; they reflect society’s “response to the conduct.” In this case, she said, the Williamses’ conduct was hard to even comprehend.

“I think, at one time or another during this trial, each and every one of us sat stunned and speechless,” Cook told the packed courtroom, calling the testimony of the remaining Williams children a “parade of horrors” that she’ll remember as long as she lives.

And:

Quote

The Williamses’ track record, she said, was this: one child dead, one with PTSD, and seven who thought the kind of degrading treatment the other two endured was acceptable.

https://www.goskagit.com/news/crime/decades-in-prison-for-williams-couple/article_b0065547-b4be-5341-b468-657173cd5a58.html

And the Williamses' appeals failed.  May they rot in jail.

https://www.goskagit.com/all_access/court-affirms-convictions-of-williamses-in-adopted-daughter-s-death/article_dc370200-8d77-5045-b42d-0584dd04362e.html

Edited February 5, 2019 by Palimpsest

[Leftitinmysnood]

Also, the fully tenured in bs Art Robinson taught at OSU for many years. (His son married into the antiSemitic, John Bircher, tinfoil hat wearing, Fundie royalty adjacent Seppi family) He was president of the Oregon GOP for a term and seems to be perennially running for congress. I live in CA, but we knew of a lot of hardcore dominionists, John Birchers, and isolationists, who split time between Californian and Oregon because it kept them more hidden from the government and reduced their un biblical car registration fees, insurance requirements, and helped hide wages from government "theft." As a teen I thus assumed all Oregonians were right wing extremists.

[refugee]

46 minutes ago, Leftitinmysnood said:

Also, the fully tenured in bs Art Robinson taught at OSU for many years. (His son married into the antiSemitic, John Bircher, tinfoil hat wearing, Fundie royalty adjacent Seppi family) He was president of the Oregon GOP for a term and seems to be perennially running for congress. I live in CA, but we knew of a lot of hardcore dominionists, John Birchers, and isolationists, who split time between Californian and Oregon because it kept them more hidden from the government and reduced their un biblical car registration fees, insurance requirements, and helped hide wages from government "theft." As a teen I thus assumed all Oregonians were right wing extremists.

Oh! I can’t believe I forgot about Art Robinson and the Robinson Curriculum (with its scads of “superior” old books, like the Bobbsey Twins series) and his children who were “persecuted” by the university in their pursuit of advanced degrees, if I’m remembering right. I really don’t remember the details, so I don’t know if they were actually unfairly targeted or not.

[Leftitinmysnood]

Don't forget the awesome add-on of every book G. A. Henty ever wrote if you bought the complete Robinson Curriculum.

[refugee]

2 minutes ago, Leftitinmysnood said:

Don't forget the awesome add-on of every book G. A. Henty ever wrote if you bought the complete Robinson Curriculum.

A real labor of love.

/sarcasm

[older than allosaurs]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I thought they lived in Sedro Woolley, Washington but perhaps it is the same thing.  I don't think their church was ever identified but they had one.  Some church members testified at the trial, but they said that the family was becoming increasingly extreme in their beliefs.

 

You're right. Sedro-Woolley (great name, no?) and Mt. Vernon are adjacent but I think they were closer to SW. I know they had some acreage so they weren't right in town. There was a statement somewhere by their former pastor and I looked up the church. It was small and seemed generically fundie evangelical, if I remember.  I think they had pretty much stopped attending by the time Hana died.

That case has haunted me since it happened. I know someone who worked for the agency who placed the children, and it's clear the Williams's  gamed their homestudy and then ignored the resources available. There is a community of adoptive parents of Ethiopian children up this way, assisted by Ethiopian and Eritrean students at the university. There is a large community in Seattle. There are good resources for deaf kids. The family had the time and money to access help for placements that were bound to be challenging.  Instead they chose to insist on instant, absolute obedience a la To Train Up a Child, and to enforce it with torture. And then Carri blamed Hana and the courts for destroying their family.

I can usually muster up some compassion for pretty much anybody, but Carri is off my charts.

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

There was a statement somewhere by their former pastor and I looked up the church. It was small and seemed generically fundie evangelical, if I remember.  I think they had pretty much stopped attending by the time Hana died.

There is a mention somewhere that the church had a Deaf Assistant Pastor.  When he tried to communicate with Immanuel the "parents" moved the child away from him.

The Williamses are really terrible people and the whole case was truly horrifying.

[Blessings of the Corn]

20 hours ago, starfish said:

I still want to get the Robotkins going again. I looked up their "Christ the King" church. Pappy Botkin is the preacher although the boys fill in from time to time so I guess it's a homechurch really. They post a phone number on the website but no address.

Just like Doug the tool's old church, Boerne Christian Assembly. You had to be asked to worship there. 

But anyway, I wonder if they have any opinion whatsoever on Bradrick! now with remarriage.

But back to the fundies of the Northwest--that is really interesting. Seattle is where the fundie parents Carri and Larry Williams murdered their adopted Ethopian child, Hanna Williams. They were a patriarchial,  homeschooling fundie family and I wondered if they were outliers or part of a larger movement. 

Gonna out myself to someone here, I am sure, but here goes … disturbing but true: the Williams attended the Assemblies of God church that I also attended at the time - not a fundie church, though def evangelical, but still rather laid back. 

The Williams didn't live in Seattle - they lived bout and 1.5 hours north, give or take, in a remote property. That was a HORRIFIC thing to happen to that sweet girl and her brother. The family was odd and quiet. The kids couldn't join activities: Sunday school, youth group, camps, etc. They all sat in front every Sunday in their matching rompers and vests. They'd participate in the service, maybe talk to a few people, and then leave. That entire tragedy shook the community. I always wished there had been something I could do. None of us had any idea what was going on under the surface. They were weird and they homeschooled, but they all seemed fairly nice. The adopted siblings were so tiny and beautiful. There was a lady at the church who would translate the sermons with ASL, and she would often talk to the little boy, which I have hope gave him a little feeling of connection.

 Even talking about it now makes me want to cry. My attendance was spotty at that time (now I don't believe or go to church anywhere), but that's a different story.

The Williams were ardent followers of the Pearls and that name alone turns my stomach. Those parents killed a child and messed up their other children in the process.

[older than allosaurs]

1 hour ago, Blessings of the Corn said:

Gonna out myself to someone here, I am sure, but here goes … disturbing but true: the Williams attended the Assemblies of God church that I also attended at the time - not a fundie church, though def evangelical, but still rather laid back. 

 

Thanks for these insights.

And consider yourself un-outed, at least to me who probably lives pretty close to you. It has occurred to me more than once that someone who wanted to put together my various little bits of info shared here could almost certainly figure out my ID. But I'm confident I'm not that interesting.

[Lisafer]

15 minutes ago, older than allosaurs said:

Thanks for these insights.

And consider yourself un-outed, at least to me who probably lives pretty close to you. It has occurred to me more than once that someone who wanted to put together my various little bits of info shared here could almost certainly figure out my ID. But I'm confident I'm not that interesting.

My fundie family could probably ID me on here if they ever cared to try. That thought scares me sometimes...and then I think, "what the hell, maybe I should be this open in real life!"

@Blessings of the Corn all of that is just so sad. So many fundies have a fairly normal appearance, and looks can be so deceiving. 

[Jezzable]

On 2/2/2019 at 10:17 PM, Leftitinmysnood said:

Was Shekinah Curriculum Cellar in Oregon then? That's where we got our BJUP and ABEKA back in the 80s. They are currently in Texas.

I am not positive about that. Exodus Books came around about '94. And Timberdoodle was also very popular then. They're in WA. The owners of Exodus Books are definitely Reconstructionist. They were located near Dennis Tuuri's church (Dennis is also Reconstructionist). 

On 2/4/2019 at 11:07 AM, refugee said:

I heard a radio interview about teaching phonics and ordered a phonics program by mail.

I'm curious if you remember the name of that program.  People sure had to scrounge to find curricula back then. 

[refugee]

55 minutes ago, Jezzable said:

I am not positive about that. Exodus Books came around about '94. And Timberdoodle was also very popular then. They're in WA. The owners of Exodus Books are definitely Reconstructionist. They were located near Dennis Tuuri's church (Dennis is also Reconstructionist). 

I'm curious if you remember the name of that program.  People sure had to scrounge to find curricula back then. 

Exodus Books shut down a few years back, but I hear they're back in a new store, maybe? I used to love the Timberdoodle catalog. (catalogue? I can never get that straight) Lots of fun activity-type stuff, if I'm remembering the right company.

The phonics program was called Play 'N' Talk. This program was so old, the audio part came on vinyl records.  

Edited February 6, 2019 by refugee
clarification

[danvillebelle]

5 hours ago, refugee said:

I used to love the Timberdoodle catalog. (catalogue? I can never get that straight) Lots of fun activity-type stuff, if I'm remembering the right company.

Me too - I remember waiting and waiting for it to come in the mail.  We got all our Lauri foam puzzles from them when our boys were tiny.

Timberdoodle is still going, but they're much more modernized/mainstream now.  

[starfish]

19 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

You're right. Sedro-Woolley (great name, no?) and Mt. Vernon are adjacent but I think they were closer to SW. I know they had some acreage so they weren't right in town. There was a statement somewhere by their former pastor and I looked up the church. It was small and seemed generically fundie evangelical, if I remember.  I think they had pretty much stopped attending by the time Hana died.

That case has haunted me since it happened. I know someone who worked for the agency who placed the children, and it's clear the Williams's  gamed their homestudy and then ignored the resources available. There is a community of adoptive parents of Ethiopian children up this way, assisted by Ethiopian and Eritrean students at the university. There is a large community in Seattle. There are good resources for deaf kids. The family had the time and money to access help for placements that were bound to be challenging.  Instead they chose to insist on instant, absolute obedience a la To Train Up a Child, and to enforce it with torture. And then Carri blamed Hana and the courts for destroying their family.

I can usually muster up some compassion for pretty much anybody, but Carri is off my charts.

This case continues to haunt me as well. They seemed to be educated people with resources, but they chose a very evil

path. And I know their biological children and Hana's brother are entitled to privacy, but I've often thought of them and hoped they found a path to a better life. And one with vaccines and public school, just to spite Carri. 

[Lisafer]

8 hours ago, refugee said:

Exodus Books shut down a few years back, but I hear they're back in a new store, maybe? I used to love the Timberdoodle catalog. (catalogue? I can never get that straight) Lots of fun activity-type stuff, if I'm remembering the right company.

The phonics program was called Play 'N' Talk. This program was so old, the audio part came on vinyl records.  

As children, we'd read the Timberdoodle catalog and drool over the games and toys. I don't know Exodus books, but we were in the Midwest so maybe it wasn't as big there.

Did you ever use Sonlight? My mother used their book list to find reading material for us. I don't remember her ever using the full curriculum though; she pieced things together from various Christian publishing sources. 

[Blessings of the Corn]

1 hour ago, starfish said:

This case continues to haunt me as well. They seemed to be educated people with resources, but they chose a very evil

path. And I know their biological children and Hana's brother are entitled to privacy, but I've often thought of them and hoped they found a path to a better life. And one with vaccines and public school, just to spite Carri. 

Oh, me too. I think about them all the time. I'm def haunted by what happened - it was so beyond horrific. That poor, sweet girl. I hope the biological kids, especially the older ones, can be de-programmed, for lack of better words, and go on to live free lives.

[refugee]

2 hours ago, Lisafer said:

As children, we'd read the Timberdoodle catalog and drool over the games and toys. I don't know Exodus books, but we were in the Midwest so maybe it wasn't as big there.

Did you ever use Sonlight? My mother used their book list to find reading material for us. I don't remember her ever using the full curriculum though; she pieced things together from various Christian publishing sources. 

We discovered the Sonlight book list fairly early (after homeschooling about 2 or 3 years). We used it for a reading list as lots of the books were available at the library. It introduced us to many of our all-time-favorite books. We couldn’t afford to buy the box of books and teacher’s guide from Sonlight, though. It was expensive.

Exodus was local to the Portland area. They became known for buying and selling used books and curriculum in addition to new books.

Miller Pads and Paint (or was it “and Paper”?) was from the Midwest, though, were they near you? They came to the big convention every other year. I often used the lions share of my budget at their booth on their art supplies when they came to town.

Edited February 6, 2019 by refugee
Need coffee

[Lisafer]

41 minutes ago, refugee said:

We discovered the Sonlight book list fairly early (after homeschooling about 2 or 3 years). We used it for a reading list as lots of the books were available at the library. It introduced us to many of our all-time-favorite books. We couldn’t afford to buy the box of books and teacher’s guide from Sonlight, though. It was expensive.

Exodus was local to the Portland area. They became known for buying and selling used books and curriculum in addition to new books.

Miller Pads and Paint (or was it “and Paper”?) was from the Midwest, though, were they near you? They came to the big convention every other year. I often used the lions share of my budget at their booth on their art supplies when they came to town.

Exactly! My mother got the Sonlight books from the library. I remember hearing that the actual curriculum was really expensive.

I don't remember Miller Pads and Paint. We used the Rod and Staff ArtPacs--not my favorite, but serviceable. Of course, this was before the explosion of art tutorials on Youtube! 

We also used some logic books by the Bluedorns and their list of fiction for reading (Hand That Rocks the Cradle?) It is a source of unending delight to me that Nathaniel Bluedorn grew up and came out of the closet. Fundie no more!

[Jezzable]

12 hours ago, refugee said:

Exodus Books shut down a few years back, but I hear they're back in a new store, maybe?

They may have shut down temporarily or were on the verge of shutting down, but got it going again. New owners, maybe? 

 

12 hours ago, refugee said:

 

The phonics program was called Play 'N' Talk. This program was so old, the audio part came on vinyl records.  

Yes, that's the one I was thinking about!  

1 hour ago, refugee said:

 

Miller Pads and Paint (or was it “and Paper”?) was from the Midwest, though, were they near you? They came to the big convention every other year. I often used the lions share of my budget at their booth on their art supplies when they came to town.

Totally forgot about them!  I bought from them occasionally. 

Remember when Christian Supply used to sell homeschool materials?  

[danvillebelle]

32 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

It is a source of unending delight to me that Nathaniel Bluedorn grew up and came out of the closet. Fundie no more!

GET OUT!  ::::Elaine Benis shove:::::

I was just thinking about them recently and wondered what they were up to.  You just made my day!  

[Howl]

On 2/4/2019 at 1:07 PM, refugee said:

I tried one thing after another until we hit on Charlotte Mason's techniques (Wikipedia has an article about her). All of a sudden, things clicked. Her approach worked in our situation.

Charlotte Mason homeschooling sounds amazing!  

[Lisafer]

6 minutes ago, Howl said:

Charlotte Mason homeschooling sounds amazing!  

From what I know, it's been really helpful for a lot of people! I think part of it is because it's about taking a holistic perspective on education and using that to help your child learn.

[Howl]

2 hours ago, Blessings of the Corn said:

I'm def haunted by what happened - it was so beyond horrific. That poor, sweet girl. I hope the biological kids, especially the older ones, can be de-programmed, for lack of better words, and go on to live free lives.

One thing that appalled and truly pissed off the the judge in the Williams case was that Carrie in particular modeled and normalized for her biological children the most grotesque forms of abuse of Hana for "rebelliouness", and even had the older boys participate in the discipline abuse of Hana.  I hate to think about what those older boys were allowed to do to their other siblings or if they were too terrified and emotionally stunted to get out of line. 

That said, I can't imagine how tough this was on the kids -- losing both parents to prison.   I too hope they went to foster homes that showed them a normal loving home life and that each of them received excellent secular therapy.  I can't remember if any of the kids were sent to live with relatives of either parent. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Howl