Zach & Whitney Bates Part 6: That Thing In The Window Is Creepy

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

Her Mom is listed as Lynn Perkins.

Well damn, there goes one of my 2019 predictions. I predicted their next baby would be a girl and the middle name would be after her bio mom, but Kaci's middle name is already Lynn.

Fundamentalists Wiki has her name as Donna Perkins, but I have no idea what their source is.

[VelociRapture]

12 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

Her Mom is listed as Lynn Perkins.

I thought her mom was Lynn because of Kaci’s middle name. I was pretty sure they said she was named for Whit’s mom. Fundamentalists Wikipedia lists her mom as Donna though, so I’m guessing they have the wrong name. 

[mollysmom]

3 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

^Yep, I remember that. It was a comment on a news article saying that Whitney's parents beat her, which really leaves a bad taste in my mouth if she's accepting the blame for it now.

 

To be honest, I could totally see that. My mother (extremely fundie) used to beat the shit out of us (not only spankings but dragging me back to her bedroom by my hair for a beating, etc) I personally never got over it & doubt I ever will. I hold alot of bitterness and hate in my heart towards her for that. My siblings, however, (still fundie) have openly said that our mom was just doing what she thought God wanted her to do and that we deserved everything she did to us cuz she was trying to keep us out of hell. I will never ever understand that but I wonder if that's a similar situation. (?)

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

(!) speculation:

Kelly begins to talk to Whit about guilt, family relationships, biblical values. Deeply and silently, the message is: if you want to be accepted, left your foster parents. She needs to fit, to be loved, to be important for someone, to have an extended family, to please Zach and his parents. She is a daughter who obviously loves (or needs) her bio parents no matter how bad they were. 

That brings another thought into my mind. The few fundies that I'm still in contact with are CONSTANTLY trying to get me to forgive my mother (cuz you know, that's what Jesus would do). They are extremely persistent about it and try to guilt me into it all the time. I'm finally at a point in my life where I actually speak up for myself and don't do whatever people tell me to do so I will never forgive her for it. But this does make me wonder if Gil & Kelly manipulated Whitney and kept harping on her about it. That would make perfect sense. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by mollysmom

[formergothardite]

31 minutes ago, mollysmom said:

. But this does make me wonder if Gil & Kelly manipulated Whitney and kept harping on her about it. That would make perfect sense. 

This would be the time and place for Zach to step in and tell his parents to fuck off(in a fundie approved way) and to tell Whitney that she doesn't need to feel like she needs to shoulder all the blame for what happened with her parents when she was a teen. It appears Zach has gone along with the notion that Whitney is totally to blame, which isn't shocking, but is sad. 

[nausicaa]

9 hours ago, JillyO said:

Caveat: Maybe the Owenses (the adoptive parents) are actually terrible, horrible people.

I will say that the fact that Whitney seemingly cut all contact with her adoptive parents at the exact same time she miraculously reunited with her biological parents seems pretty fishy to me, especially now that they are putting 100% of the blame for their estrangement squarely on Whitney’s shoulders. If it had truly been a case of a “teenager gone wild” where she just needed to get away from her bio family for a while and the Owenses took her in, then there would be no reason to (again, seemingly) cut all contact with them after she reconciled with the Perkinses. If anything, most bio parents in a situation like that would be grateful that she found a loving family who took her in and got her on a good path (by the time she met Zach, she was - what, 19? - and was in college and had a job!). 

Again, I of course know nothing about the Owenses and maybe they really weren’t good to her at all. But this “reconcile with the biological parents and completely cut the adoptive parents out of your life from one day to the next” thing just reeks of Gothard’s anti-adoption bullshit. And like many of you, the fact that aaaallll of the blame for the broken relationship between Whitney and the Perkinses is put on Whitney REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Yuck. 

You basically wrote out my thought word for word. Also, the Owenses were fairly conservative Christians. The father is a Baptist minister. So if Whitney was such a horribly behaved rebel, why would she want to go live with them? And presumably follow their rules? Seems fishy. 

The only point in the Bateses favor here (And I completely believe that they insidiously insert their Gothard beliefs into things) is that Kelly has sisters via adoption, and she's never seemed to treat them as less than her other siblings and has never displayed any issues with it. 

I find the whole situation very strange. 

[VelociRapture]

I’d like to take a moment to remind everyone that we have no official confirmation about why Whitney wound up with the Owens family. We also have no idea why she reconciled with her birth parents or why she appears to have cut ties with the Owenses. Some of the posts here are based in facts we know about these people that might have played a role in the situation (see pretty much any post by @formergothardite, who knows way more than I do about IBLP teachings and who is most likely right on the money concerning Gil and Kelly), but we don’t know for sure because none of the people involved have spoken in detail about it. 

The only known facts are:

- Whitney wound up living with the Owens family in her late teens and very early 20s. We don’t know whether this was a legal adoption or if it was an informal arrangement, nor do we know whether Whit’s birth parents ever lost custody or whether they were ok with her living with the Owenses.

- The Owenses were present at her wedding to Zach in December 2013 and appear to have remained in the picture until shortly before Bradley’s birth in October 2014. 

- Whitney’s birth parents, the Perkins, were back in her life at some point prior to Bradley’s birth. They were present at the Hospital after he was born and appear to have remained a big part of Zach and Whit’s lives ever since.  

- Whitney has spoken publicly only twice about the situation and both times she indicated she feels a great deal of guilt over whatever happened. At the vow renewal she apparently mentioned that she was a rebellious teenager who drove a wedge between herself and her parents due to her choices. This is as close to an explanation as we’ve gotten thus far. 

Everything other than that is pretty much speculation at this point. I fully admit to being somewhat concerned about the amount of guilt Whitney appears to carry about it all and I do find the situation to be very odd. 

(I’m not saying anyone here has claimed anything as fact. I just want to be clear that everything other than the few confirmed facts is speculation because it’s very easy for an innocent post to be taken as fact by mistake. Abuse is a serious accusation to make and I don’t want anyone thinking that we know for sure that that’s what happened.)

Edited January 6, 2019 by VelociRapture
Spelling is apparently hard on my phone.

[Carm_88]

It all sounds like a very complicated situation. Honestly, in the beginning I was a bit sad for Whitney. She jumped in to the Bates world and seemed to lose herself and what she believed pretty quickly. It was very much like she wanted the Bates to be the family that she dreamed of. It seemed like she had been very hurt in the past and was very lost. I'm glad that she has gone back more to her roots and is more confident with the births of Bradley and Kaci. I just hope that she made the choice to take her biological parents back into her life on her own. It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

*Speculation. 

[Bobology]

10 hours ago, Flossie said:

Whit has somewhat backslid by going back to wearing pants and holding a job outside the home.

This is funny and sad, because the Bates probably DO believe that doing those things is 'backsliding' but of course those things have nothing to do with her actual faith in god, the bible, jesus, etc.

FJ is a big time-waster... I literally have sat and spent time thinking about what could have happened to cause Whitney to accept so much blame and guilt for whatever it was, while her parents stand there quietly. Thanks, guys. The only thing my wee mind can conjure -- conjure means I'm speculating -- is that Whitney became enraged at her parents for something (teen drama, too strict, she got punished for something) and ended up lying openly about them, perhaps even told people she was beaten. Once the lie began she had to back it up by continuing it and it just became a big mess. That's about the only thing I can come up with as to why she believes the blame falls on her.

[JordynDarby5]

10 hours ago, nausicaa said:

You basically wrote out my thought word for word. Also, the Owenses were fairly conservative Christians. The father is a Baptist minister. So if Whitney was such a horribly behaved rebel, why would she want to go live with them? And presumably follow their rules? Seems fishy. 

The only point in the Bateses favor here (And I completely believe that they insidiously insert their Gothard beliefs into things) is that Kelly has sisters via adoption, and she's never seemed to treat them as less than her other siblings and has never displayed any issues with it. 

I find the whole situation very strange. 

True Kelly does appear to treat them any less then her other siblings. But she also had picture of Forrest on her the wall of her "Patriot" room along side the two other Confederates.I find it hard to believe if you have siblings that you love who are black that you would put up Confederate pictures all and include the grand wizard of the KKK.  

[RosyDaisy]

I kind of get the impression that Kelly's only use for her family is free cakes and flowers for weddings. And the 2 episodes about Beth's wedding struck me as a way of trying to hard to prove they're not racists.

[nokidsmom]

The facts as summarized by @VelociRapture are the only known facts here around Whitney's situation.   I was around when Whit and Zach got married and remember there was a whole lot of speculation about Whitney's "adoption", why it happened, what was the deal with the adoptive parents, etc.  But none of it was confirmed, nor did it have to be.  Whit is free to discuss or not discuss what happened, in whatever terms she wishes, however I was a bit sad to read about the level of guilt she appears to be feeling.  IMHO, it cast a unnecessary pall over her vow renewal, but once again, she is free to handle it her way and I can't argue if that is  what she wanted.

It's apparent that, whatever happened, Whitney has endured some serious difficulties early on in her life.   I hope that the decision to reconnect with her birth parents was solely her decision, and only her own.   Zach and her in-law family can certainly support her in doing this but my concern here is that, given the ideas about adoption and parental authority, that any support given will easily become pushing an agenda.   Frankly, I wouldn't trust Kelly and Gil in particular not to.   I wonder along with @mollysmom if they are harping on it.  

22 hours ago, formergothardite said:

This would be the time and place for Zach to step in and tell his parents to fuck off(in a fundie approved way) and to tell Whitney that she doesn't need to feel like she needs to shoulder all the blame for what happened with her parents when she was a teen.

This is indeed the time for Zach to step up and tell his parents to stay out of the blame game.    He is the one to see behind closed doors how this is really affecting Whitney and should do anything in his power to not let it get worse for her especially at the hands of his family.   Personally I think this should not be a situation that involves all of the family weighing in, but Zach has grown up in a family that has no sense of appropriate boundaries.   While he looks to have learned to set some, this is one he really should not avoid doing for his wife's sake.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by nokidsmom
Edited for live link

[Laura2730]

23 hours ago, TeaELSee said:

Her Mom is listed as Lynn Perkins.

Can you look up the Topix thread I posted earlier? I have no idea how to do that.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150607235515/topix.com/forum/city/la-follette-tn/TGS12KQK4OSCOADVQ

[Casserole]

Whitney has every right to keep whatever transpired over the years to herself. Based on her lack of explanation, I'd guess she doesn't want to talk about it/want whatever she "did" to be public knowledge. That is 100% okay.. but having a super vague special episode about how "guilty" you are really doesn't help the audience to forget about it or move on.. it just opens you up to more questions. For that reason, I don't understand. Prior to this episode most average viewers of the show probably forgot all about the Owens family by now. 

Just a quick "I wasn't able to have my parents at my wedding, and I felt I missed out on my dad walking me down the aisle, etc. A vow renewal was the perfect opportunity to reaffirm our love for one another and have my parents be involved" and then the rest of the episode focusing on the usual pretty dresses and cute kids wouldn't have caused a lot of intrigue. If she didn't want people to speculate, they should have edited the episode differently. 

[nokidsmom]

10 minutes ago, Casserole said:

Whitney has every right to keep whatever transpired over the years to herself. Based on her lack of explanation, I'd guess she doesn't want to talk about it/want whatever she "did" to be public knowledge. That is 100% okay.. but having a super vague special episode about how "guilty" you are really doesn't help the audience to forget about it or move on.. it just opens you up to more questions.

Exactly this.   This is what I meant when I posted about "the things that happened" casting a pall over the vow renewal.   It moved the focus from a joyous occasion that could involve the birth parents and affirm their love (and perhaps their reconnection?) and made it about her "guilt" thus inviting a lot of wondering over something that was better off left alone, at least as far as the viewers / public were concerned.

[Hisey]

On 1/5/2019 at 10:42 AM, nausicaa said:

If anything, most bio parents in a situation like that would be grateful that she found a loving family who took her in and got her on a good path (by the time she met Zach, she was - what, 19? - and was in college and had a job!). 

That's what I was thinking, too! We don't know the facts, it's true, but I wonder why both sets of parents couldn't have been included. It's that exclusion, and Whit's odd sense of guilt, that makes this situation seem off, somehow (and not the loving, accepting event they are saying it is).

[Flossie]

This thread should be renamed "Zach & Whitney:  It's all her fault."

[TeaELSee]

3 hours ago, Laura2730 said:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150607235515/topix.com/forum/city/la-follette-tn/TGS12KQK4OSCOADVQ

Thank you so much!  2011 is before she was dating Zach or on TV right?  What an odd discussion regarding a high school kid on a public message board.  The Tammy Welden mentioned is not the same name as the Owens... Someone claiming to be her best friend posted she lives with a loving family now and is not kind regarding her bio parents or Tammy. Sounds like it was a town scandal regardless.  

I kind of believe this simply because it was posted 8 years ago and matches up with rumors. I feel terrible for Whitney if this is true.

Edited January 6, 2019 by TeaELSee

[singsingsing]

9 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

Thank you so much!  2011 is before she was dating Zach or on TV right?  What an odd discussion regarding a high school kid on a public message board.  The Tammy Welden mentioned is not the same name as the Owens... Someone claiming to be her best friend posted she lives with a loving family now and is not kind regarding her bio parents or Tammy. Sounds like it was a town scandal regardless.  

I kind of believe this simply because it was posted 8 years ago and matches up with rumors. I feel terrible for Whitney if this is true.

It was. I don't think Zach and Whitney even met until 2012. I agree that the discussion is odd, but I think it must be between people who know her and have a personal beef for whatever reason. 

[TeaELSee]

Here is what “Whitney’s best friend” posted

Aug 11, 2011

I would just like to say to the person who started this post.. You have no idea what you are talking about and you need to mind your own business.. HA! A good woman who cared enough to take her in? Wow are you lost! Tammy took her in for money benefits and nothing more! That woman and her demon spawn daughter treated her like dirt! Don't go sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. If anybody needs to learn of God's love it would be Tammy and Courtney. Get your facts straight and then come up with something to say. As far as that goes, it's probably Tammy or Courtney that started this post. You'd be better off just stopping this post and leaving it at that. Believe me, I could go on and on about those two, but I think I'd better stop where I'm at. With that being said, Whitney is in a great place now. They treat her wonderfully. She is finally getting the love and help that she deserves. She didn't get it when she was with her parents and she sure didn't get it when she was with Tammy. Things are finally looking up for her and you can't stand it. Leave her alone and let her live her life!

[Laura2730]

16 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

Thank you so much!  2011 is before she was dating Zach or on TV right?  What an odd discussion regarding a high school kid on a public message board.  The Tammy Welden mentioned is not the same name as the Owens... Someone claiming to be her best friend posted she lives with a loving family now and is not kind regarding her bio parents or Tammy. Sounds like it was a town scandal regardless.  

I kind of believe this simply because it was posted 8 years ago and matches up with rumors. I feel terrible for Whitney if this is true.

No worries! Yes they met in 2012 at Sonic where Whitney worked: https://thebatesfamily.com/2013/07/courtship-chronicle/

Also- I don't know for know for definite its really her, but the 'Makayla Ray' post in the Topix is a lady who was a bridesmaid in Whitney's wedding party:

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

And these are the Facebook pages for both Tammy Weldon and her daughter Courtney (Whitney is friends with Courtney on Facebook): 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Is Tammy formerly an Owens? 

[onyourwayhome]

So, I don’t know how many people have been involved with the foster care system but what happened here is not uncommon. Most teenagers get caught in an very uncomfortable place between their bio and foster parents. Some foster parents are awful and some are really indifferent and do it for benefits (which are paltry, so that confuses me). Some do it because they have a a hero complex. In general, teenagers are not adopted out and parental rights not terminated if they are within a few years of fost r care - they simply age out. It is not financially beneficial to foster parents to adopt a teenager prior to them turning 18, because their stipend would be reduced or eliminated. That doesn’t usually happen unless maybe the teen’s parents have died and it is something the teen and foster parents passionately advocate for. Most teenagers reunite with their bio parents after they become adults.

[TeaELSee]

13 minutes ago, Laura2730 said:

Also- I don't know for know for definite its really her, but the 'Makayla Ray' post in the Topix is a lady who was a bridesmaid in Whitney's wedding party:

You’re good at this!

[Laura2730]

33 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Is Tammy formerly an Owens? 

No she is completely separate from them- it is implied by 'Whitney's best friend' that Whitney went from her biological parents, to Tammy, and then onto the Owens' who I presume are the adults who 'treat her wonderfully' and who she's 'getting the love and help' from.

25 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

You’re good at this!

Thanks! I'm not going to speculate on what actually happened- as we can't take the Topix forum as definite truth- but its definitely interesting considering the posts are from 2011. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Laura2730

[praying4u]

There are intriguing public court records involving Whitney's "adoptive" parents, Johnny and Lydia Owens. I don't understand the legal jargon, but they were involved in a child custody dispute in 2009 where the child was returned to her birth mother.

There is a child restraint charge against Lydia Owens in 2001. This is interesting since Johnny and Lydia Owens' 11 year old daughter, Laklee, was killed in 2002. I have heard that she was killed in a car accident but I have not seen proof that.

I can't say for certain whether this is the same Johnny Owens from Anderson County, TN, but there is also an assault record from 1994.

I got this information from the Anderson County Court search page here: http://www.andersoncircuitcourt.com/search/mainpage.aspx