Lori Alexander 57: The Wisdom and the Folly

[EowynW]

6 minutes ago, Pammy said:

@ladyicantxplain

I would like to remind you that humanity is full of decent men and women. It is unreasonable to assert that being an “unbeliever” is equivalent to being the kind of person who is abusive, irresponsible, evil or ‘devilish’.

It doesn’t take Jesus to make someone into a kind-hearted and respectful human being who can be a good spouse and partner. Those people are found everywhere.

^ this. I'm a Christian who is so sick of that line of thought. I know many non Christians who have healthier, better & more loving marriages than many of the Christians I know. 

 

Lori has me so jaded. I am honestly glad she is older and will only get older and I will breathe a sigh of relief the day when her ministry is over for good.  She just gets worse and worse. 

[ladyicantxplain]

9 minutes ago, Pammy said:

I would like to remind you that humanity is full of decent men and women. It is unreasonable to assert that being an “unbeliever” is equivalent to being the kind of person who is abusive, irresponsible, evil or ‘devilish’.

I can agree with this, in part.  Many "unbelievers" are kinder than the best professing "christians" I've ever met. That's because the "christians" have been fake: real Christians are inherently kind MOST of the time (it is their DEFAULT...not their 100% because we are all human beings and not glowing yet...).

Personally, I do not agree with your second paragraph, but that's okay: that's me and that's been my belief and experience. Yours has been and is different than mine.

My point is that Lori thinks that even a godless man is THE leader of the home, and this is biblically INCORRECT on every level.  If we are going strictly by the book which Lori claims to believe, the bible disproves her own argument in multiple places in scripture.

 

[Pammy]

48 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

I can agree with this, in part.  Many "unbelievers" are kinder than the best professing "christians" I've ever met. That's because the "christians" have been fake: real Christians are inherently kind MOST of the time (it is their DEFAULT...not their 100% because we are all human beings and not glowing yet...).

Personally, I do not agree with your second paragraph, but that's okay: that's me and that's been my belief and experience. Yours has been and is different than mine.

My point is that Lori thinks that even a godless man is THE leader of the home, and this is biblically INCORRECT on every level.  If we are going strictly by the book which Lori claims to believe, the bible disproves her own argument in multiple places in scripture.

 

As a person living in a secular country, it is possible that I have a wider “experience” of all sorts of people finding ways to be decent, kind-hearted and respectful human beings — both with and without Jesus in their lives.

If you haven’t shared your life with people like that, perhaps you might consider your inexperience as a limitation for your perspective, rather than a confirmation of your biases.

[feministxtian]

I say this as a Christian...overwhelmingly, the kindest, most compassionate, helpful, loving people I know are NOT Christians. The Christians I have the misfortune of knowing are judgmental, nasty, traded their savior for political power, rude, offputting, snobby, and as they'd say where I'm from, just ugly. 

When we were going thru the hard times, the friends who kept us afloat were NOT Christians...the Christians we knew looked down their noses at us as if we were worthless pieces of shit. One had the fucking nerve to hand me the line about "if you don't work, you don't eat" (and that is twisted around to make it mean something it doesn't). 

So although I consider myself a Christian, I don't feel that Christians are morally superior to anyone. I live, love and act upon the words I read in the bible...something about "love one another as I have loved you". 

[ladyicantxplain]

21 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I say this as a Christian...overwhelmingly, the kindest, most compassionate, helpful, loving people I know are NOT Christians. The Christians I have the misfortune of knowing are judgmental, nasty, traded their savior for political power, rude, offputting, snobby, and as they'd say where I'm from, just ugly. 

When we were going thru the hard times, the friends who kept us afloat were NOT Christians...the Christians we knew looked down their noses at us as if we were worthless pieces of shit. One had the fucking nerve to hand me the line about "if you don't work, you don't eat" (and that is twisted around to make it mean something it doesn't). 

So although I consider myself a Christian, I don't feel that Christians are morally superior to anyone. I live, love and act upon the words I read in the bible...something about "love one another as I have loved you". 

Those people were not Christians. Those people were OPPRESSED people in desperate need of the REAL Jesus.

Those people were religious.

It took me over forty years, but I finally found some real Christians (those in the online church) and they are NOTHING like the professing christians I've met prior.  

All of this to say, I hear you, and I agree...fake christians are not kind.  

I agree that Christians are not superior to anyone else.

Please don't hear what I am not saying in this conversation.

And @feministxtian, I am sorry you have met horrible professing christians who look and act nothing like Christ.

 

[feministxtian]

12 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

Those people were not Christians. Those people were OPPRESSED people in desperate need of the REAL Jesus.

Those people were religious.

It took me over forty years, but I finally found some real Christians (those in the online church) and they are NOTHING like the professing christians I've met prior.  

All of this to say, I hear you, and I agree...fake christians are not kind.  

I agree that Christians are not superior to anyone else.

Please don't hear what I am not saying in this conversation.

And @feministxtian, I am sorry you have met horrible professing christians who look and act nothing like Christ.

 

Ya know, I've heard that line over and over and over...and frankly, it's bullshit. Why aren't they called out? Oh, wait, I tried that and got smacked down b/c I'm not an uptight, legalistic piece of shit

[ladyicantxplain]

I've called 'em out, too, countless times. And gotten thrown OUT of local churches, and blocked online and shunned and shamed, gossiped about in a town of less than 8,000 people...not fun.

I try to remember that it was the RELIGIOUS who KILLED Jesus.

They hated Him and everything He said and did.  They boasted about how wonderfully godly they were and how well they knew their father. 

Nothing has changed.  There is a spirit realm, and it is real, and there are spirits that HATE people who have love in their hearts.

All I can tell you is that you are in good company if you got smacked down because you are not an uptight, legalistic piece of shit...because that is the same thing they did to Jesus.

Meanwhile, we still have to keep calling them out which is in part why I visit this site. To expose the fake christians.

 

[feministxtian]

It sucks because there isn't a church on earth I feel comfortable with anymore. I am very conservative theologically...but that's what condemns the legalistic, politico-religious bullshit in most churches. My conservative theology is what guides my "liberal" political beliefs. There is no contradiction between the two. Matthew 25:31-46, James 1:27, Malachi 6:8 are reflections of what passes for "liberal" political beliefs here in the US. However, do you really think I can get these legalistic shits to see that? 

Oh yeah, I get in trouble for my mouth...have you EVER met fishermen? They definitely don't say "golly gee willikers" when they cut their hands on the nets. Jesus hung with a bunch of guys whose vocabulary could probably make even a marine blush!

[Sarah92]

As a Christian who was part of the legalistic asshole parade but was smacked in the face with humble pie, I can say I was internally an asshole. I was usually pretty good at not showing it on the outside but on the inside, I was incredibly judgmental. You wear all black? You're a heathen. You listen to Barlow Girl and not just hymns? Something is wrong with you this isn't how you worship etc etc etc. What it came down to was me projecting my own personal insecurities and drive to be perfect onto others. I felt God couldn't love me if I wasn't perfect after all my own brother didn't love me enough to stop drinking, fighting, and running away even though he knew it hurt me. I mourn how I thought about others back then and how much time I wasted thinking so poorly of myself. I can't make excuses for my past thoughts and I own up to it. I can only move forward with new eyes to see others with and seek healing for my insecurities and hurts. Additionally,  as someone who is not naturally empathetic, the process of learning and understanding empathy has been incredibly humbling. 

That being said, I think many Christians are similar. They get so caught up in a drive to appear and be a certain way that they steamroll over others who don't fit into that neat little box. People who stand out risk making the "perfect" Christian look bad/ feel bad. Lori can't have descent on her page unless it serves a purpose because she wants to maintain the image of a perfect, wise mentor. In reality, it's a false image that covers sin and brokenness. There's no excuse for being part of the legalistic asshole parade because the Word of God is pretty clear on how we are to treat others. However, those parts are pretty easy to gloss over when caught up in arrogance. 

My family essentially got ran out a church because they stood up and said something about a choice of pastor that was not a good fit for the church. This made the interim pastor mad and well one thing led to another and he turned a large portion of the church against us. Following that it's hard to trust a church congregation especially now that I've become a feminist and a bit more liberal. I don't know if I would be safe to speak about my beliefs in the churches around me without being told I'm awful. Oh how the tables have turned lol.  

But here's one thing I've learned, being in church isn't about a number of people. It's about experiencing the sacred. Two friends sharing their lives together over cups of coffee and maybe a few glasses of wine? Church. A family gathered around the dinner table talking about their day and laughing? Church. When we talk about spiritual matters here on this page? Church. I might not trust church congregations but I'm learning to trust the sacredness of moments between fellow Christians that I know care for me. 

Okay wow didn't mean to turn that into a mini-sermon. I'm just feeling reflective tonight. 

[SilverBeach]

On 11/13/2018 at 9:09 PM, PinkPrincess0213 said:

Only for the babies. Always. As many as you can have, without regard to finances, health or even the best interests of the children. Ignore the intimacy it brings to a healthy marriage or just the physical release that is sometimes needed.

What happens when babymaking is done? I guess these folks stop having sex when the wife hits menopause. Which is bullshit. Sex still is intimate and loving and enjoyable for us in our sixties, and I think it is supposed to be that way. Even when I was younger, birth control didn't affect anything but avoiding pregnancy.

[wallysmommy]

Tithing -- didn't Jesus teach us about the widow's mite?  Oh, wait, that's not Titus 2.  They proclaim they help their children financially, but I'll bet there's a secret ledger showing exactly how much each kid owes, and when she's a widow, Lori will pull out the tally and let them know exactly how much they owe her.  

It took me a long time not to be bitter about the church as an organization as I grew up watching the leaders, including my father who later regretted this, "turn people out of the church" because they were on the outs with the pastor's wife.  She ruled with an iron fist and you didn't dare cross her.  I could see Lori being the same way if Ken pastored a church.  

[SuperNova]

6 hours ago, Pammy said:

@ladyicantxplain

I would like to remind you that humanity is full of decent men and women. It is unreasonable to assert that being an “unbeliever” is equivalent to being the kind of person who is abusive, irresponsible, evil or ‘devilish’.

It doesn’t take Jesus to make someone into a kind-hearted and respectful human being who can be a good spouse and partner. Those people are found everywhere.

Thank you for saying this. 

@ladyicantxplain I'm always interested to hear what you have to say. You have so much knowledge of scripture and can meet Lori point for point and I respect that. You come across as fair minded and the type of christian that seems to walk their faith. For those reasons I was disappointed to read your post about those of us who are godless.

I've mentioned here before that I am an athiest but my beliefs are a little different in that I don't deny the exsist of god completely, only for myself. I truly have no faith of my own but I've seen people who have the light of their god that shines in them. Who am I to say what they feel isn't real? 

Just because no omnipotent being guides me doesn't make me "devilish". Remember that nothing beyond my love compels me to be good woman who loves her husband. There is no divine hand guiding me when I volunteer to bag beans at the food bank or when I buy a homeless man a hot meal. I do so without an expectation of reward. My faith is greater than many christians because I have only myself to believe in. 

I do enjoy your perspective and sincerely hope that it was just a miscommunication.

[EowynW]

9 hours ago, feministxtian said:

I say this as a Christian...overwhelmingly, the kindest, most compassionate, helpful, loving people I know are NOT Christians. The Christians I have the misfortune of knowing are judgmental, nasty, traded their savior for political power, rude, offputting, snobby, and as they'd say where I'm from, just ugly. 

When we were going thru the hard times, the friends who kept us afloat were NOT Christians...the Christians we knew looked down their noses at us as if we were worthless pieces of shit. One had the fucking nerve to hand me the line about "if you don't work, you don't eat" (and that is twisted around to make it mean something it doesn't). 

So although I consider myself a Christian, I don't feel that Christians are morally superior to anyone. I live, love and act upon the words I read in the bible...something about "love one another as I have loved you". 

We are going through a hard time right now. Mr. EW's family constantly "reminds us" to make sure we are tithing and has hinted that if we aren't then that's why we are having a hard time. Their God must be a mob boss and we pay for protection with our tithes. Good grief. 

9 hours ago, feministxtian said:

Ya know, I've heard that line over and over and over...and frankly, it's bullshit. Why aren't they called out? Oh, wait, I tried that and got smacked down b/c I'm not an uptight, legalistic piece of shit

Someone finally said it. Thank you. Bless you. 

[SongRed7]

15 hours ago, Koala said:

I just want to inform you that no matter what you say, you are not going to convince me that we still live under the Law.

But yet we are STILL under the law when it comes to tattoos. Those are bad. Very bad. Extremely bad. You might not be able to find a high quality man if you have one...especially if you have debt....and aren't a virgin.... SO NO TATTOOS! 

[SongRed7]

The only thing Lori left off the newest Doodle on Instagram this morning was "Dear Alyssa" 

"Infertility is nothing new, women!"     So get over it, will ya?? (implied)

I was in a good mood today..I refuse to allow Lori to "steal my joy" to borrow a phrase..UGH

[Liza]

On 11/9/2018 at 6:39 AM, luv2laugh said:

bbie Braggie from MisForMama is identical and has 8 kids while thinking she’s this hip, young, modern Anthropologie clad mom. You need to go to that thread for real. I’ve been on a Lori break and have been over there and I’m surprised at how identical both of them are in their behavior.

@luv2laugh   ... or anyone, please ... where are these threads?  Thanks.

[feministxtian]

9 hours ago, Sarah92 said:

But here's one thing I've learned, being in church isn't about a number of people. It's about experiencing the sacred. Two friends sharing their lives together over cups of coffee and maybe a few glasses of wine? Church. A family gathered around the dinner table talking about their day and laughing? Church. When we talk about spiritual matters here on this page? Church. I might not trust church congregations but I'm learning to trust the sacredness of moments between fellow Christians that I know care for me. 

In many ways FJ is church...a community of people who DO care for one another, who bear open their lives, who support each other and yes, disagree...civilly. This is more church than most churches. 

[Sarah92]

Yes it is irresponsible to continue having children if you can't afford it. If you can and have the means to give them the care they need, have at it I don't really care. You're quiverfull means nothing if your children are starving. 

Also why does everyone assume that mom's are spending a ton on new work clothes? Are moms not supposed to have nice clothes? So Lori promotes dressing and looking nice but only if those clothes aren't work clothes. Most of my outfits can be worn around or at work so what difference does it make? Clothes are clothes. 

[ViolaSebastian]

46 minutes ago, Liza said:

@luv2laugh   ... or anyone, please ... where are these threads?  Thanks.

Here you go! 

 

[feministxtian]

7 minutes ago, Sarah92 said:

Also why does everyone assume that mom's are spending a ton on new work clothes? Are moms not supposed to have nice clothes? So Lori promotes dressing and looking nice but only if those clothes aren't work clothes. Most of my outfits can be worn around or at work so what difference does it make? Clothes are clothes

My "work wardrobe" never cost me more than about 100 bucks...jeans, t-shirts, tennis shoes. It's only now that I'm blowing money on clothes...let's see...2 pairs of jeans, 6 tops and a new bra (it's comfortable, I need to get another one or two). 

[ladyicantxplain]

@SuperNova and those who do not profess Christianity:

The intent of my post last night was certainly not to offend anyone here. The intent of the post was to illuminate how terribly inappropriate it is for Lori to try to use her own Bible to defend an unbelieving man (not a christian man; even if he is PROFESSING christianity) as a LEADER of a household (church), since the household is the first church.  

If you are not a believer or a professing Christian, you are going to disagree, since you do not choose to live your life by the words of the bible.  It is that simple. I am not calling anyone "devilish"; I am saying that the only way to God the Father is through faith in Jesus Christ's finished work at the whipping post and the cross.  So,  if you want Christianity, that is the good news.  But I won't force it on anyone.  That being said, I can't compromise what the Bible says, and it does say that a man without Christ lives in his flesh, which CAN BE "devilish".

Again, if you do not believe the bible to be the inspired Word of God, then you automatically don't believe what I said about this unbelieving man  - and that is your mindset.  Mine is different than yours.  This is okay.

BOTTOM LINE, however, was NOT to start an offensive discussion between persons about whether or not an unbeliever can be devilish.

The bottom line that concerns me about Lori and what she is teaching when she says that an unbelieving man is THE LEADER of the home, is that this puts WOMEN in real danger.   There are so many of Lori's followers who have believed this garbage, that they are literally "Yes'women" to all these "professing Christian" men (fake christian men) or unbelieving men (ungodly as Lori and her reader put it).  They think they bow to his demands, his desires, his orders and his manipulation BECAUSE he is a man, even if he is an unfit leader (according to the Christian faith).  

When they bow to a man like this, they become servants NOT of the God they desire to serve and love, but of hell.  They literally become servants of hell in their households by honoring a man who abuses them, or won't work, or refuses to get up off the sofa and do anything but play video games, or screams at the children, or threatens everyone.  

When a woman obeys a "leader" who is ungodly like this, she gives the leadership of her house over to hell.  This is why so many women say, "It has been hell on earth living with him like this..."  Because it has. 

So, the danger in Lori teaching that this man who is not "godly" is the ONLY LEADER of the household (for Christians, the "house church" or first church), is that the only leader may morph in and out of actually serving hell and not God, thus dragging the whole Christian household upside down.  

God's design is that the believing spouse SET APART the family for God: this necessitates the believing spouse STANDING UP for God's ways against a "leader" that wants to take the household down an ungodly road of serving hell.

I hope this makes more sense, and yes, I believe there was misunderstanding.  I do not think unbelieving people ON THIS PAGE to be "devilish"; in my mind I see you as sons of God.  Because you are.

[ladyicantxplain]

2 hours ago, EowynW said:

Their God must be a mob boss and we pay for protection with our tithes. Good grief. 

I am sorry to hear you are going through a hard time at the moment. Sadly, this is such a typical thing for religiousity to say:  "Something bad happened; look for where you sinned."  In your case, they somehow believe the sin is possibly not tithing.   

A wise man once said to me, "God is the GOOD Father, NOT the Godfather!"

He doesn't need to take our stuff...He doesn't need to have our money.  He GIVES.  Good things and good gifts.  He is a giver, not a taker. And unconditionally: He is not holding your blessings hostage because you didn't tithe...how disgusting.

 

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

In many ways FJ is church...a community of people who DO care for one another, who bear open their lives, who support each other and yes, disagree...civilly. This is more church than most churches. 

Completely agree with this.  I think this is primarily because the people of this online community have purposed not to fly off the handle in judgemental anger towards anyone else, and certainly not just because someone believes differently.

Also, I believe the people in this community have a high level of discernment for the FALSE - the counterfeit christianity. So it is easier to have real fellowship that isn't false.  Once you identify the counterfeit, you only want the real.

[ViolaSebastian]

44 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

My "work wardrobe" never cost me more than about 100 bucks...jeans, t-shirts, tennis shoes. It's only now that I'm blowing money on clothes...let's see...2 pairs of jeans, 6 tops and a new bra (it's comfortable, I need to get another one or two). 

I buy most of my work wardrobe off of on-line consignment shops and thrift stores. My average pair of work shoes or a business casual dress cost about as much as Lori pays for butter. Plus, many jobs have uniforms such as scrubs, which aren't exactly going to break the bank. She (as freakin' usual) has a lot of nerve telling women how much is costs to work outside the home when she's never done it herself. 

I refuse to buy a cut-rate bra, though--doncha know big ones sag and look not so pretty? 

[Sarah92]

I need to find a good bra place. By personal conviction I don't shop at places that don't carry plus sized clothing (they don't support all women but say they do) so Victoria Secret is out. But personally I buy a lot of dress pants from thrift shops because they're usually well taken care of. Jeans I can't buy thrift since sizing is difficult for my body type.   Blouses come from all over. I love a good Old Navy sale. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Ladies, I have and idea for a community blog and am looking for several women who might be interested in submitting posts. The title is called "we are the exceptions".  This is a counter to Lori's whole "I don't deal with or teach exceptions".  This will be a place for women to share their stories, experiences and faith, proving that you can still be Christian even if you don't have a picture perfect life and made mistakes a long the way.  It will also try to reach out to women who are shamed and shunned by "ministries" like Lori's.  The exceptions are the majority whether the godlies like it or not. And the exceptions will not be silenced, deleted, and banned. 

Thoughts?