Lori Alexander 54: Embracing the Manosphere

[SuperNova]

21 minutes ago, SongRed7 said:

$100 says no way she wrote that. It was more Ken's style or she plagiarized it from someone else. 

 

She says she took the phrase from the Judge Kavanaugh confirmation hearing.

[squiddysquid]

Since I'm not Lori, here are some papers on neuroimaging and posttraumatic stress disorder:

Neuroanatomical features in soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder

Hippocampal Volume in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder Related to Childhood Physical and Sexual Abuse

 

[wallysmommy]

I dared to go into the fray.  Here's my post.  You know she's going to delete it with flying fingers.

[Sarah92]

Soooo which is it Lori?

 

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[wallysmommy]

My chihuahua can form a better argument than Lori Alexander can.  She LOVES herself.  She cares about no one but herself.  Others are only supporting actors on the stage of life called "Lori is Holier than Everyone."

[ladyicantxplain]

Yeah, I am not impressed with the mental gymnastics required by Lori to try and explain away the idea that we MUST love ourselves in order to even begin to express love to another person.   If a person literally does not care for their own body, something is wrong - this is a definite indicator that this person NEEDS HELP loving their own body!  It means that something has lied to the person's mind, and convinced them that they are not WORTH loving! 

People, even Christian people, struggle EVERY DAY with this thinking: it is why we see really great people with wonderful hearts who seem trapped in a cycle of bad hygiene, frumpy clothing, unhealthy bodies...unhealthy relationships...you name it.  There are even really great people who pour themselves MORE into others' lives than they do their own lives, to their detriment...and it looks unselfish and Christian and "loving",  but really it is a way of trying to reinforce how the person thinks they are LESS than everyone else, and somehow this is going to earn them a weird favor with God (for debasing themselves).  It's not healthy and it is not what God meant.

We absolutely MUST love ourselves BEFORE we can allow God's love to flow through us to others.  If I don't care about my own body, soul and spirit, how will I minister to others?  If I think myself to be worthless and unloveable, it is highly likely I will also find at least SOME other people to be worthless and unloveable, and project and transfer this onto them, unable to freely minister God's love to them.

This should be really simple.  Love yourself as God loves you; receive His love.  Then, love others freely with real love.

[onemama]

Lori: 

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we are to love others as we love ourselves, meaning, we already love ourselves and this is why we have to fight selfishness and not wanting our own way!

Um.. this makes no sense.  Or maybe it makes perfect sense in Lori's world. She provides Ken with the things he wants (thereby fighting her selfishness) and routinely reminds her critics that she has the right to express her opinion and accept no challenges (thereby fighting not wanting her way).  ?

[ladyicantxplain]

Well, how surprising it has taken Lori this long to find the Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel (SJ&G).

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https://statementonsocialjustice.com/

How equally surprising that one of the original signers is Voddie Baucham, aka Mister "vipers in diapers".

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https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/01/16/the-child-as-viper-how-voddie-bauchams-theology-of-children-promotes-abuse/

This is a piece of crap written by Comps to bring even more religion to religion.  Brood of vipers, indeed.

I see no one has commented.  I pray one may be brave enough.  This is a hot topic on twitter. Anyone know if Lori tweeted this?

5 minutes ago, onemama said:

Lori: 

Um.. this makes no sense.  Or maybe it makes perfect sense in Lori's world. She provides Ken with the things he wants (thereby fighting her selfishness) and routinely reminds her critics that she has the right to express her opinion and accept no challenges (thereby fighting not wanting her way).  ?

Yes. Nonsense.  Especially in light of the fact that she preaches "new creation" as the new identity of believers.  She reminds everyone how new they really are, if they should tell her that they are struggling with ANYTHING from overweight to addiction, yet somehow, they aren't "new" enough (including herself) to be SELFLESS and love others!

Lori has projection down to an art form.

[onemama]

21 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

Well, how surprising it has taken Lori this long to find the Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel (SJ&G).

And she's signed this affirmation and accompanying denial:

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Imago Dei

WE AFFIRM that God created every person equally in his own image. As divine image-bearers, all people have inestimable value and dignity before God and deserve honor, respect and protection. Everyone has been created by God and for God.

WE DENY that God-given roles, socioeconomic status, ethnicity, religion, sex or physical condition or any other property of a person either negates or contributes to that individual’s worth as an image-bearer of God.

 

I guess  she's forgotten all about that little post on her blog, the one about women not being made in the image of God and all that.. let's see how long it takes Dave to comment on her post. 

ETA: she's also signed her agreement to this:

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WE AFFIRM that God’s law, as summarized in the ten commandments, more succinctly summarized in the two great commandments, and manifested in Jesus Christ, is the only standard of unchanging righteousness. Violation of that law is what constitutes sin.

WE DENY that any obligation that does not arise from God’s commandments can be legitimately imposed on Christians as a prescription for righteous living. We further deny the legitimacy of any charge of sin or call to repentance that does not arise from a violation of God’s commandments.

 

Stop making up laws, then, Lori.  Stick to the 10 commandments, or better yet, to the two greatest commandments.  Look at Jesus as your example to follow.  

[Sarah92]

If we are created in the image of God how are we not to love and appreciate ourselves? If we see the image of God's creative work and the shear intricacy he puts into the human body, how can we hate ourselves? To hate ourselves is to deny God's work in creating us. "Fearfully and wonderfully made"

Lori preaches about all this pseudoscience health stuff. Why? I'm gonna assume it's because she loves herself enough to be supposedly healthy. We aren't kind to things we hate. 

[FullOfGravy]

8 minutes ago, Sarah92 said:

Lori preaches about all this pseudoscience health stuff. Why? I'm gonna assume it's because she loves herself enough to be supposedly healthy.

Or hates herself enough to want to subdue and control herself, and so comes up with all sorts of rules and restrictions under the guise of "health".

Possibly I'm the one projecting here (eating disorders and the weird-ass rules and beliefs that come with them are FUN, y'all!), but hey, I mostly keep my shit to myself and don't try to make everyone else miserable, so I've got that going for me.

[PennySycamore]

On 9/6/2018 at 5:36 PM, FullOfGravy said:

The only case study I know of suggests that doesn't work so well...

 

So do they, I think.

 

 

 

 

@FullOfGravy,  I was waiting for someone to bring up good ol" Rasputin!

 

ETA:  I know we were taking about Lori's post on masturbation a few pages ago.  Do you know who doesn't (or least did not) feel that masturbation is a sin or any kind of a big deal?  Dr James Dobson.  Dr Dobson wrote in Preparing for Adolescence that the guilt that adolescents might feel about masturbation was worse that the actual act.  He felt that it was something most teens would do.

 

[CatholicLite]

Why is social justice a thing that is so awful to some fundies? How does that go against God? I'm confused.

[KDA]

Did anybody see Elias's original reply to Lori's comment on her blog, in which he insisted women are not made in the image of men and Lori insisted we are, linking to something written by John Piper? It was the most misogynistic, nasty comment I've even read in my life. Much worse than Trey, Dave and Ken combined. It nearly made me both punch my laptop and vomit. I was so angry I emailed Lori (because I'm blocked on Facebook and her blog). She didn't reply to my email. But Elias's disgusting reply has gone and he has written something new which isn't quite so bad. Now I'm wondering if Ken made her change it, or if she did it of her own accord. And to get it changed, is she emailing strange men she meets on the internet?

[Hane]

1 hour ago, CatholicLite said:

Why is social justice a thing that is so awful to some fundies? How does that go against God? I'm confused.

The Godly Mentor would have busted a gasket if she’d spent the afternoon with me at my local Pride Fest. It was a pretty sedate crowd, with lots of booths representing social service organizations, an atheist group, a humanist group, my UUs, and about five or six different Christian churches.

[TeddyBonkers]

6 hours ago, KDA said:

Did anybody see Elias's original reply to Lori's comment on her blog, in which he insisted women are not made in the image of men and Lori insisted we are, linking to something written by John Piper? It was the most misogynistic, nasty comment I've even read in my life. Much worse than Trey, Dave and Ken combined. It nearly made me both punch my laptop and vomit. I was so angry I emailed Lori (because I'm blocked on Facebook and her blog). She didn't reply to my email. But Elias's disgusting reply has gone and he has written something new which isn't quite so bad. Now I'm wondering if Ken made her change it, or if she did it of her own accord. And to get it changed, is she emailing strange men she meets on the internet?

I don't know, what's up there is still pretty bad.

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more in spoilers

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[KDA]

@TeddyBonkers You're right, what's up there is still pretty bad. But what he'd written originally was so much worse. Probably twice as bad as what's there now. I wish I had screen-shotted it but it was so horrible that my computer probably would have died in protest. 

 

ETA: He seems to think women are weaker intellectually. I wonder if he is aware of the studies which show that children get their intelligence from their mothers? 

[delphinium65]

11 hours ago, CatholicLite said:

Why is social justice a thing that is so awful to some fundies? How does that go against God? I'm confused.

Because it includes equality regardless of gender, race, orientation, etc, and the right of individuals to make their own decisions, and decide what happens to their own bodies.  Their god is all about hierarchy, and social justice screws with their whole worldview.  

[onemama]

@TeddyBonkers, thank you for sharing those replies.  This Elias had better not be a pastor. I fear for his wife and his children - if he has them-. He certainly has no place teaching anyone about Jesus!

He takes the meaning of Philippians 2 (written to all believers ) and makes it all about inferiors not grasping for equality:

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Philippians 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant,and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

Christ could have argued that he was part of God and was equal to the Father, but instead he humbled Himself by becoming obedient, and for this reason also, God highly exalted Him. That is the pattern for how God’s patriarchy works. It does not function on equality, it functions via subordinates not grasping for equality, but instead being exalted for their humble obedience.

 

But actually, if you read the whole thing in context, it's not about that at all. This is the beginning of the chapter:

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So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, 2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. 3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 

He doesn't say "those of you who are subordinates, don't grasp for authority", it addresses everyone: slaves, free, male, female, elderly, younger, etc... Everyone is exhorted to count others as more important than themselves, like Jesus loved us more than he loved himself and emptied himself for us.   

If Elias really believes men are greater than women, then this passage actually instructs him to let go of his superiority and consider women, those lesser beings, as more important than his conceived superior status as image bearer of God.  (I'm not saying I agree!)

He says:

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 The Bible tells us: “ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel“, and you wouldn’t be told to honor somebody for a flaw or shortcoming, so I believe that weakness is something, by design, in every woman’s creation and beyond her control. 

He conveniently leaves out the rest of that verse that seems to imply equality.  

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since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

There's another passage that talks about honoring the weaker parts of the body (1 corinthians 12)

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The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,23and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

27Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

 

In society there was inequality. Males were above females, masters above slaves, parents above children, etc... But in Christ, all are made equal. 

The same apostle who wrote 1st Corinthians 11 also wrote Galatians 3

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26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

It frustrates me to no end how these people focus so strongly on women's inequality,  their need to submit to their husbands and how rebellious they are for not following that command, but they completely forget the cristal clear instructions that were given to men.  

In Lori's post "Snatching ambiguity from clarity", she says 

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 "This is especially true concerning modern biblical womanhood". 

But look at how the men rush to interpret husband-head of wife as husband-leader in authority over wife. Is that not snatching ambiguity?  Considering that husband-head of wife, as Christ is head of the Church, is explained as Christ being the savior of the Church.

Then they focus on all the washing with the water of the word business, which may or may not apply to husbands, instead of the clear instructions given to them: love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. Husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. let each one of you love his wife as himself, (Ephesians 5)

They go on and on about how women are to accept their condition as weaker vessels and spend hours and hours pondering on what that weakness might be, and completely forget that they are actually supposed to give honor to those weaker vessels because they are co-heirs with them of the grace of life.  Hm... snatching ambiguity much? 

On and on they go about how woman was made for man, not man for woman, but they forget that the passage includes these words:   Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God. 1 Corinthians 11

Their message is way off balance and based on misinterpretations, in my opinion.  I have no idea who Judge Cavanaugh is. I do agree that textualism should be applied when considering what all these instructions mean. Go back to interpreting the instructions based on the plain meaning of the words at the time when they were written. And for goodness sakes, stop cherry picking verses! 

[onemama]

Some more Elias

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Another great post. It was a joy to read your insight.

I think that not only are you correct in the direction you are guiding people, but that you should even go a step further. You inserted a caveat:
A wife’s loving and willful submission does not include subjecting herself or her children to abuse.

1 Peter 2:13 Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people.
…
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. 19 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. 22 He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 3:1 Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct.

The Bible teaches that we are to submit to those in authority over us, and Christ was in fact our example when He, being innocent, was beaten, mocked, tortured, publicly humiliated, and even killed for us. The Bible says that we have even been called to this enduring of abuse, for the sake of Christ, as He first endured abuse even past the point of death for us. Elsewhere the Bible talks about turning the other cheek, and overcoming evil with good, so this is not an unusual passage, just a highly ignored one. And it says that women are to submit to their husbands, even unbelieving ones, “likewise”.

Everything anybody doesn’t like gets labeled as abuse these days. If I touch somebody it is physical abuse, if I say something it is verbal abuse, if they just feel bad because of me that is emotional abuse, if I disagree with them that is mental abuse, if I look at them it is (leering) visual abuse, if I’m of the opposite sex it is sexual abuse, you get the picture. I’m not even allowed to think without somebody possibly claiming abuse. As you can see if you give a free pass for abuse, everybody will want to use it, and will use it. Jesus didn’t give a pass for abuse, he took great undeserved abuse for us, and the Bible tells us that was as an example for how we should also endure abuse for His namesake and in keeping with other things God has commanded us to do. Nobody wants to hear that they are called to endure unjust abuse.

Matthew 7:14 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
We are all human. If we can’t endure a little “abuse” we can’t get along well with others, and marriages and families will not stay together, we would throw our kids out, or they would run away. The beautiful part to remember is that you are not enduring abuse because you are condoning the behavior, or because the abuser deserves it, you are doing it for Christ that his word will not be blasphemed on your account as you desert your marriage, and to put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. You are being counted worthy to suffer for Christ just as He first suffered for you. It seems entirely foreign to us in our self-serving culture.
Hebrews 11:35 Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; 

It is said that you can tell how strong a person’s faith is by how much they are willing to suffer for it.
James 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

 

And Lori replied:

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It depends on the extent of the abuse and what it is. Any emotional or physical abuse a woman is enduring, I encourage her to seek guidance from a godly, older woman. No woman should have to endure being beat up by her husband. With this, I will never agree with you and she should seek protection from authorities immediately. Some women are enduring severe and even not so severe emotional abuse from their husbands and need help and encouragement from a godly, older woman in how to handle it or what actions she should take. I understand that we are promised persecution as Christians, but if we can flee the persecution and find protection from it, we should!

 

[SuperNova]

Today's doodle:

"You can't manufacture joy. No, it only comes by abiding in Jesus....Jesus is the only source of joy and you will only be joyful if you find it in Christ and do as he has commanded."

This is one of my pet peeves as an athiest. I've heard this argument from Christians before. They're convinced that I cannot truly experience joy and happiness because I don't have Jesus in my life. That what I feel is a false joy because I simply don't know any better. How can any one person measure the genuine joy of another? It's interesting that I can't "manufacture joy", but Lori often says that "happiness is a choice". I do agree with Lori on that point. Our happiness and joy begin and end with ourselves. I would take my own secular heathen joy over Lori's bitter stunted "joy" any day of the week.

[refugee]

On 9/1/2018 at 8:27 PM, Sarah92 said:

Do people, especially males, realize how condescending and idiotic this sounds? I mean really? It's like "whelp there ain't no manly man around to be a leader so we we'll just settle for one of that them there women folk". 

Although to put it another way, apparently the male population of Israel had just become so shitty that God decided it was a good idea to shake things up a bit. So in a way whenever guys say this, especially in regards to modern times, they're acknowledging their shittiness.

So men,y'all better hop of Lori's page and start improving yourselves because apparently God's raising females up because y'all are just too awful to let be leaders. 

A couple, in all seriousness, spent the better part of an hour trying to convince me that Deborah being a judge for Israel was God's way of cursing Israel. Or God's curse on Israel. Or something like that. I kept repeating what I'd thought I'd heard them say, only for them to say, "No! That's not it!" and explain all over again.

In short, Deborah was a curse. Fits the narrative, doesn't it? Women are sneaky, easily led astray, and... it just hit me. the reason all mankind was cursed in the Garden was Eve. She listened to the serpent and ate the fruit and turned and gave it to her husband. It all becomes clear. Women are the source of all evil. In Lori's mind, anyhow, and her "manly" supporters.

[dairyfreelife]

7 hours ago, onemama said:

Some more Elias

And Lori replied:

 

Wow, uh, did Lori actually just disagree that women are called to put up with abuse? And tell them to seek help or authorities in abusive relationships? I don't agree with her on the godly mentor, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Ignoring the fact that she's teaching a man here that she doesn't do, am glad she shut that stay with abuser bullshit down for once. 

The rest of Elias...what evidence is there that women are weaker in any way, shape, or form? Human females being slightly physically smaller does not equal physically weaker. I'd love to see the evidence that women are intellectually inferior. Wouldn't emotionally weak mean having poor emotion or little emotion? He ought to remember that anger, jealousy, greed, etc. are all emotions just as much as sadness and fear, etc. If anyone is "emotionally weak" wouldn't it be the men he claims lack emotions? I really hope Elias is not married or in a relationship with a woman at all. I really hope he did not breed and is not teaching any sons that men are superior to women or any daughters that they are worthless sinful useless nobodies. 

[KDA]

Considering that Lori has to approve all comments that are published on her blog, I am absolutely disgusted that she is posting that crap from Elias. 

[KDA]

2 hours ago, dairyfreelife said:

 

The rest of Elias...what evidence is there that women are weaker in any way, shape, or form? Human females being slightly physically smaller does not equal physically weaker. 

I'd argue that women are physically stronger. After all, we carry on with a normal life while growing a new human being inside us, then we give birth. In some countries, women give birth out in the fields then carry on with their work like nothing happened. I highly doubt most men could do that.

The main reason men are seen as stronger I think is due to their size and muscle mass. My husband is substantially stronger than me as far as able to lift heavier stuff, but he's over six foot tall to my five foot nine, and outweighs me by quite a lot. If I was the same size as him, I would probably be able to lift 100kg, too.  

Any "Christian" man who genuinely thinks women are inferior/lesser/weaker don't serve the same God I do. The God I serve made women with immense strength. He designed us to have babies. It takes immense strength to be a mother, and not just physical strength, either.