Questions about becoming Catholic

[Ali]

37 minutes ago, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

Wow...and I’m awful.

Please step away from the internet and seek help from a licensed mental health professional!

Also, this is great advice!

Quote

31 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

O divine Master, grant that I may never seek
So much to be consoled as to console,
to be understood as to understand,
to be loved as to love with all my soul

 

 

[feministxtian]

30 minutes ago, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

But does he have to have this attitude toward me too?

Did you ever think that maybe he's throwing YOUR attitude back at you? 

[Lisafer]

Yeah, she's not listening. I'm out. Many thanks to you others for all the lovely advice, even though it was not intended for me, I found it very comforting and encouraging. 

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

55 minutes ago, dharmapunk said:

She is married if she married her husband in a church ceremony in a non-catholic christian church. It is calles ecumenic marriage. If she "only" married him in a civil ceremony she is not, but in that case she would be "living in sin" and in that case she is not supposed to have sex with her husband. Or she can't go to communion unless she stops having a physical relationship with him.

Yeah, my sister had a 3 year civil only marriage that our mother still doesn't recognize.  The guy was a total douchebag but it was still painful (and involved a restraining order against him) but our mother kept reminding my sister she shouldn't be upset because her wedding "didn't count"

[VelociRapture]

41 minutes ago, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

Where is his hit he’s taking for me though?

And going to a Protestant Church would go again my conscience.

THEN DON’T GO TO A PROTESTANT CHURCH! For God’s sake, the only person who is forcing you to go to the same Church as your husband is you! If you don’t want to go then don’t go. Go to the Church of your choice instead. It’s really that simple!

So many people have tried offering you real advice and have shown a lot of patience in dealing with you. Many posters here have explained Catholic positions and beliefs to you as well - @Georgianain particular offered fantastic and relevant advice and you basically ignored her. You’re either a troll or you’re a bitter woman who is using her recent religious awakening as a cover for some serious problems in her marriage. Neither of those scenarios say anything positive about you. Either way, you could greatly benefit from counseling and I’d urge you to seek it out now rather than continuing to complain on here.

[AliceInFundyland]

Emotional Vampire Troll.

You never answered my questions.

Do you CARE about any of his reasons for spirituality? Do you CARE about any of his reasons for anything??? When it just becomes a battle of wills, it's usually fucking over. If you don't give a shit ... honey, you don't need to hold on or try and forcefeed him religion. That will solve nothing.

You've moved past compromise to misery. Let go.

[Destiny]

1 hour ago, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

But does he have to have this attitude toward me too?

You can't control the actions of other people. You can only control yours.

[feministxtian]

I just realized...my mother went to Mass every Sunday of my life WITHOUT my father. My dad had no real interest in attending church of any stripe. He'd join in the social aspect but he went to Mass once in a blue moon to make my mother happy. The last one I remember was my graduation Mass in 1981. He supported my mom's desire for me to go to Catholic schools and paid my tuition, but had no desire at all to have anything really to do with Catholicism. They were married for 35 years when my dad died and of all the arguments they had (and there were many), I don't remember a single one being about religion. 

I went to church by myself for years too...hubs wasn't interested. It didn't stop me at all. We go to church together now, but didn't for years. I took my kid and didn't really mention it to him at all. He'd go occasionally but it really wasn't something he wanted to do (baggage from first marriage fucking with his head)...until HE chose for HIMSELF. 

[Beermeet]

On 6/12/2018 at 4:47 PM, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

I hope this is the right forum...

Long story short, I am seriously considering becoming Catholic. I have some personal history with the church (baptized Catholic as an infant, but never received the rest of the initiation sacraments; attended Catholic school for a few years; attended Mass occasionally with Catholic relatives), but never felt a strong pull toward it until the past year or so. I’ve discussed the issue with a couple priests, and found I have a significant roadblock, in that DH has a prior marriage that would have to be annulled, so ours could be convalidated in the RCC, in spite of the fact that he has no interest in becoming Catholic. He is refusing to get the annulment. I have gotten him to agree to revisit the issue in a year if I still feel strongly about this. I have a feeling he hopes I’ll just forget about this and drop it, but he claims to be serious. 

I guess my big question is, how do I get him to change his mind about the annulment? Is there anything I can even do, besides go to Mass and pray? The priest at our local parish was very surprised that DH doesn’t see the value in letting me join the church I want to, I’m just like, well, you don’t know my husband, he just doesn’t do things he doesn’t want to do.

Another problem I have is, I really struggle to put into words for my husband just how I feel and how much joining would mean to me. To him, this is completely out of left field (because I never talked about it until now). We had a baby three months ago, and he thinks this wanting to be Catholic is due to some postpartum issues I’ve had. I would want to raise our daughter Catholic, which he doesn’t want. He also doesn’t understand why I would want to join a church that has put up this barrier for me joining. How can I get him to understand?

Another issue I have, and one that has prevented me from seriously considering joining before, is birth control. For those of you who are Catholic, how do you deal with it? I’m not necessarily opposed to NFP, but DH is.

Lastly, for those of you who went through RCIA, or are close to someone who did, what was it like for you/them?

Thanks for reading/responding.

I nerded to revisit the original post.  

1. No. You can't make him go or convert, even if he did to placate you, and many husbands do hence the wives and/or children attending mass with no husband/father I've seen plenty of to the point it's no biggie.  

2. You said :  

"The priest at our local parish was very surprised that DH doesn’t see the value in letting me join the church I want to, I’m just like, well, you don’t know my husband, he just doesn’t do things he doesn’t want to do."

So, is your husband telling you no?  Like, putting his foot down?  Cause, that's a red flag.

3.  I went to RCIA. I was unsure of my faith when most did confirmation.  I took it very seriously and couldn't "just do it" like everyone else.  Vows are serious to me.  Tell that to an Italian Catholic  grandmother.  She doesn't care how you feel, you will make all sacrements!  I decided to do it at age 20 ( so, just a few years late) because I felt a calling.  I was also going through a very hard time.

The classes were great!  Some attendees were there for learning and support, having been through it.  Some, for marriage reasons.   I come from a small town, so, it was at a Deacons house and I really liked it.  Good people.  Good clarification of what I was committing to do.

4. Again, you can't force him but, comprising can work.  I know lots of Jewish/Catholic unions and they all do a bit of both.  Clearly not strict mega devout folks or they would never had married.

 

[singsingsing]

I will just say this: when I was young(er), and my life was full of upheaval and change, and I didn't like where I was but I had no idea where I was going, or what my place in the world was/should be, or how to find a place or a group where I felt at home and at peace and accepted and loved and safe, I turned to religion. Specifically religion that involved a lot of rules, rituals, do's and don'ts. The world was confusing and scary, and that kind of religion promised me certainty and easy answers. 

My advice is to wait. If your life is even a bit confusing, scary, different, or uncertain right now (and it is, because you just had a baby and it sounds like your marriage is on the rocks), just wait. Keep exploring Catholicism. Read Catholic authors. Go to church. Receive the blessing. Communicate with other Catholics. Pray. But also wait. One of two things will happen: you'll realize that your present religious fervour was just a symptom of your anxiety and vulnerability and you'll be happy you didn't jump into anything or ruin your marriage for the sake of it - OR, your beliefs will become solidified, you'll be much more confident and stable in them, and you'll be able to move forward in a much healthier and probably much more successful way.

In the mean time, keep in mind those famous words from I Corinthians:  "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." If either you or your husband or both of you can't honour one another and show each other patience and kindness, that is the issue you need to be prioritizing. The Church can wait.

[anjulibai]

1 hour ago, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

But does he have to have this attitude toward me too?

I'm not Catholic, but I was raised by one and my husband was raised Catholic. I have a certain cultural familiarity with it, and while I disagree with much of it's practice, the theory and philosophy behind it all is something that I respect. 

If you can't see what is wrong with this question you've asked, what is wrong with your attitude, then you do not understand Catholicism. 

Remember the Lord's Prayer and note especially the bolded part: 

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

[DomWackTroll]

On 6/13/2018 at 1:25 PM, hoipolloi said:

The only annulments I recall hearing about at any time were Joe Kennedy II's (and the Vatican reversed it) and Princess Caroline of Monaco.

Frank Sinatra got one, too, from his long-suffering first wife, Nancy Sr. 

[Beermeet]

22 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

I'm not Catholic, but I was raised by one and my husband was raised Catholic. I have a certain cultural familiarity with it, and while I disagree with much of it's practice, the theory and philosophy behind it all is something that I respect. 

If you can't see what is wrong with this question you've asked, what is wrong with your attitude, then you do not understand Catholicism. 

Remember the Lord's Prayer and note especially the bolded part: 

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Maybe this whole thing isn't helping the OP, and, that is a pity.  It is however, solidifying my comfort in my beliefs.  You see, the Catholic rituals bear a striking resemblance to paganism. If we all know our history, as we do around here at FJ, that is no coincidence.   My desires to practice Earth magic/kitchen witchery align quite well with my Catholic upbringing.  Hard to separate some of it.  It's the "that is evil" part and the hypocrisy of it all, the organization's erm, missteps aka: rampant child molestation, that turned me away.  I can be both, I've learned to be comfortable with both, with me.  I am not evil because I worship the way i do.  The holiest of holies is because they did nothing while children's lives were being ruined.  While they turned a blind eye to Nazis.   I'm over here giving thanks to my moon goddess, blessing and lighting my own candles and incense, thanking plants I pick for medicine or beauty.   Puhlese.  The Divine ( if you're into that sort of thing) is in us. I believe that 1000%.  I honor it and give thanks to it, while never harming anyone, ever.  Blessed Be.

[punkiepie]

2 hours ago, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

Where is his hit he’s taking for me though?

And going to a Protestant Church would go again my conscience.

• Neither of you have to take a hit; you are looking at this like, if you don't get your way, and the whole way your way, then your husband wins and you lose. That's wrong.  Because the inverse of that is that you get your way and he loses and that's just as wrong.  Marriage is not my-way-or-the-highway, it's not one-upping each other; it's about compromise and respect.  You should respect your husband's opinion just as much as he respects yours.  
• Neither of you are entitled to force your will upon on the other; he's not telling you that you can't be Catholic- you are Catholic.  But you are telling him that he has to get an annulment.  You knew he had been married before when you dated him and then married him- this isn't some new revelation sprung upon you after the fact.  
• Both of you are entitled to worship, or to not worship, as you see fit and without undue coercive pressure from the other.  It is just as bad for you to force him down this road of annulment in order to be a fully fledged member of the RCC when he doesn't want to, as it would be for him to say that you can't be Catholic anymore, or go to mass, and that you must attend a protestant church.  But he's not doing that- you are the one forcing your recently re-developed religious beliefs upon him.
• Both of you are entitled to equal opinions, rights, and say-so, as it pertains to determining your daughter's future faith.  My dad was Catholic and my mom was a fundie IFBer, I was exposed to both faiths, and ultimately rejected both faiths.  And I can tell you, there are way more similarities between the two than there are differences. Try focusing on what they have in common and not on how they are different.  Deeply religious and faithful Christian and Jewish persons get married all the time and manage to raise their children in both the Christian and Jewish faith.  Think about that: one faith is all about believing Jesus is the Messiah, the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, and the other faith is all about their long continuing wait for the fulfillment of OT prophecy, denying Jesus as the Messiah; somehow, these couples are able to raise their children in both faiths- because they make the decision to respect and appreciate the faith of their spouse.  
• The common theme I have seen in the majority of FJ responses to you is that you can only change yourself, not your husband.  Not to be super trite, but Ghandi also said it: "be the change you want to see in the world;" you can't change the world without first being an example of that change yourself.  The bible mentions this frequently; to paraphrase Matthew 7:3, why are you so focused on that splinter in your neighbor's eye and totally ignoring the beam of wood in your own eye?  
• Praying for yourself- I know you want to pray for your husband to change his mind, but that's not where the change needs to happen.  It could very well be that if your husband noticed a change in you, he might soften his stance on the issue.  You never know.  And if you are still resistant to praying for yourself, then you can always pray that God's will, will be done, whatever that may be.  Surely you believe that God has a plan for you and you want to follow what He wants for you and for your husband and for your daughter.   Luke 22:42:  "Not my will, but thine will be done."  That should be the prayer of your heart.  

[anjulibai]

13 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Maybe this whole thing isn't helping the OP, and, that is a pity.  It is however, solidifying my comfort in my beliefs.  You see, the Catholic rituals bear a striking resemblance to paganism. If we all know our history, as we do around here at FJ, that is no coincidence.   My desires to practice Earth magic/kitchen witchery align quite well with my Catholic upbringing.  Hard to separate some of it.  It's the "that is evil" part and the hypocrisy of it all, the organization's erm, missteps aka: rampant child molestation, that turned me away.  I can be both, I've learned to be comfortable with both, with me.  I am not evil because I worship the way i do.  The holiest of holies is because they did nothing while children's lives were being ruined.  While they turned a blind eye to Nazis.   I'm over here giving thanks to my moon goddess, blessing and lighting my own candles and incense, thanking plants I pick for medicine or beauty.   Puhlese.  The Divine ( if you're into that sort of thing) is in us. I believe that 1000%.  I honor it and give thanks to it, while never harming anyone, ever.  Blessed Be.

I hear you. There was a time in my life I thought I'd eventually convert to Catholicism, because there is much good and beauty to it all. But there's also a ton of crap and too many horrible old men at the top who are being propped up by that crap, and none of that is something I want to be a part of. As you say, there are other places to find that without having to deal with so much, well, sin. 

[EmmieJ]

7 hours ago, formergothardite said:

So it wasn't a real apology? Doing passive aggressive shit like that A. isn't showing respect to your husband as an equal partner to you. B. makes it clear you still blame him C. is just going to cause more marriage issues D. is just childish. 

You need to understand that their is no "light" he needs to see. His perspective on this is completely acceptable. There is nothing wrong with it. 

If I was in a relationship, and my partner put all this weight on me to change but I chose not to change who I am, and instead looked in my heart and said "that religion/that lifestyle/doing that thing you want me to do is not right for me," and then my partner supposedly accepted my decision but then made it clear they were going to pray for me to see the light - I'd leave that relationship.  Because what that would tell me is that my partner does not accept me for who and what I am; so what would be the point of sticking around?  I am who I am.  I believe what I believe.  I would not try to force my partner to be something other than who and what they are; and I expect the same in return.  It's call mutual respect. 

6 hours ago, socalrules said:

We are five pages in and I still don’t get the reason why you can’t be Catholic without your husband. None of this story makes sense but maybe it’s because it’s not meant to. There is no reason why you, as a baptized Catholic, can’t be Catholic

I may be replying late, and I hope this isn't redundant.  But I too am starting to wonder if we're being trolled.  I'd like to add that I imagine a good Catholic wife wouldn't be one that demands her husband go against his own religious beliefs and conscience just to please her.

[feministxtian]

17 minutes ago, punkiepie said:

Praying for yourself- I know you want to pray for your husband to change his mind, but that's not where the change needs to happen.  It could very well be that if your husband noticed a change in you, he might soften his stance on the issue.  You never know.  And if you are still resistant to praying for yourself, then you can always pray that God's will, will be done, whatever that may be.  Surely you believe that God has a plan for you and you want to follow what He wants for you and for your husband and for your daughter.   Luke 22:42:  "Not my will, but thine will be done."  That should be the prayer of your heart.  

AMEN!!!! I didn't pray for my husband to change his mind about God, Jesus, church or any of that. I prayed that I would be a better wife and do a better job of living my faith (yeah, I know, I'm still not that good at it). I prayed that I'd have the grace to accept whatever my husband decided he wanted to do without resentment. 

There were quite a few years where my marriage was on decidedly shaky ground and I didn't know if it would survive. I prayed for strength during that time, to do whatever ended up needing to be done (staying or leaving). 

About 4 years ago, he went through a RADICAL wake up call, entirely of his own doing, that is, he got himself in some deep shit and I wouldn't rescue him and let him hit the bottom he needed to hit. THEN is when he turned himself around.

Sometimes you just need to pray for yourself and let the other walk the path they're on and let them deal with themselves. It doesn't have to be a negative thing or an earth-shattering thing, but everyone needs to walk their own path and live their lives. 

[EmmieJ]

2 hours ago, Georgiana said:

In Genesis, Cain asks the Lord, "Am I my brother's keeper?"  The rest of the Bible can be seen essentially as firm answer to that question: YES.  Always remember: you are here to keep and care for others, not just yourself

Your entire post was beautiful.  Even though I am no longer Catholic, there is still a lot of good parts to the religion (and most religions in general) that show us the way to lead a good life in which we think of others, rather than a selfish life where we only think of ourselves.

[EmmieJ]

2 hours ago, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

But does he have to have this attitude toward me too?

He ain't the one who wants to be Catholic - you are.

[formergothardite]

Departing on a journey to self-change is a hell of a lot harder than trying to change another person. Self-reflection is hard! But in the end, the only person you can really change is yourself. Spending all your energy trying to change another person just results in frustration and resentment. 

Here is a good quote by Don Miguel Ruiz. 

Quote

 Real love is accepting other people the way they are without trying to change them. If we try to change them, this means we don’t really like them.”

 

[EmmieJ]

22 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

 

 "Real love is accepting other people the way they are without trying to change them. If we try to change them, this means we don’t really like them.”  (Don Miguel Ruiz)

At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP doesn't really like her husband. 

[feministxtian]

9 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP doesn't really like her husband. 

I think she's almost Lori Jr. She wants things her way and that's the only way she'll be happy. Still of the opinion she needs to grow up and quit acting like a selfish brat. 

[Beermeet]

10 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

At this point, I'm pretty sure that OP doesn't really like her husband. 

At this point, I'm not sure this even matters half as much to OP as it does to us.  Regardless, a nice realisitc/ theological discussion with large doses of actually caring.  What else can we do?  If I were the one receiving this level of thought, care and caution....well....I would cry.  This right here, is a good thing.  It's real. To be treated with such care and consideration, even if OP is a troll, ( I don't think so, just not getting the green light to do as she will) something good may come of this.  

[Carm_88]

Being Catholic is seriously complicated. There's guilt, there's prayers, there's "Oh sweet immaculate baby Jesus, I ate meat on Good Friday...again!" Like @Georgiana said there's weird pictures of Jesus with a flaming heart and a picture of the Last Supper in the kitchen to remind you that it may be your last supper. I got back and forth on Catholicism, but I fall right back into prayers when I'm scared. 

I think that OP may be going through a lot and is scared, so she's falling into rituals and wanting to believe that the Catholic church is a solution to this upheaval in her life. It's rough to struggle, but being vulnerable and wanting to be a part of a church so much, that you want your husband to get an annulment is too much. I'm sorry that you're struggling but this isn't the way to go about it. 

[AnnaSofia]

I personally think marriage counseling is a perfectly reasonable thing for you to request. Would your husband be more open to the idea if he were able to choose the therapist?

If he's 100% against it under any circumstances, I do think it would benefit you to try therapy on your own.

Since he's already agreed to revisit the topic of annulment in a year, my suggestion would be to truly give it a year. Make peace with the idea of (temporarily) not receiving  the Eucharist and continue to go to mass on your own, go to therapy (with or without him) and at the end of that year, calmly discuss things after you've both had some time and space. Maybe he'll see how committed you are to your faith and decide an annulment is the right thing to do, or maybe your feelings for the church will change due to other reasons.

The first year of parenthood is INCREDIBLY stressful to a lot of couples, and my advice would be to not make any drastic decisions until the dust settles, and you both get into the groove of things.