Questions about becoming Catholic

[keen23]

I think all of these things vary from parish to parish. For example, my family split from the Catholic church in 1992 (or thereabouts). Yet, 8 years ago my brother was allowed to be married in a full Catholic ceremony, with Eucharist, even though he had been confirmed in a Protestant church. He had been baptized Catholic (as all three of us older children were), did the pre-wedding classes with the parish, refused to commit to raising Catholic children, and yet was allowed to have the full ceremony for his wife's family's benefit. 

[AliceInFundyland]

You have a lot going on. Objectively, I can see the appeal of adhering to religion with a lot of rules and order. It could help structure the chaos.

But like everyone else has said, and you admitted, there’s more going on than the church issue.

At this point in the thread it looks like you want to wreck (sorry, I know that is harsh) your marriage because your husband does not want to invalidate a part of his history. And you need it all to happen on an urgent timetable. You’ve also admitted that this is a fairly recent development. 

This sounds obvious, but have you asked him why? Have you discussed what he’d like for the spiritual growth of your little one? And really considered what he said? And if so, do you care about the reasons? I think you need some help sorting through those questions first. 

We can talk about converting and liberal vs. conservative churches till we are blue in the face. We can’t change him. And if your marriage is faltering we can be supportive (we are pretty good at it) but we are a blunt and honest crowd, not therapists. We can’t change people’s minds, or the Roman Catholic church.

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, punkiepie said:

My point in telling you that story is to remind you that religion, of most any kind, is primarily about a relationship with God (or other higher power).  Don't get so lost in the canonical rules and minutiae that you lose sight of what is actually most important

Very well said.  I'm not sure there is a god, but if there is an all-loving diety (which is how god is described in the religions I'm familiar with), then what really matters to that diety is what is in your heart; how have your lived your life; not human-imposed rules and restrictions. 

Although raised Catholic, I was also encouraged to have critical thinking skills.  So as I matured, started viewing things through a questioning lens, that's when I began moving away from the Catholic Church.  If women were really the root of original sin, and thus were supposed to suffer during childbirth in perpetuity for that sin - wait right there .... that's the first example of men getting a free pass.  So (allegedly) Eve tempted Adam to partake of the apple.  So Adam, being a weak man yet somehow still more god-like than the female Eve, couldn't resist her and took a bite.  Right there you should hear the sound of a record scratching.  That concept felt like a whole load of bullshit to legitimize women as less than men and it didn't work for me once I got old enough to really think about.  (Sorry to go off on a side rant, and I don't mean to denigrate anyone's particular beliefs.  I think religion can be an important source of comfort for many people.  But women are equal to men, and any religion or group that believes otherwise is not cool with me. )

 

[Georgiana]

1 hour ago, keen23 said:

I think all of these things vary from parish to parish. For example, my family split from the Catholic church in 1992 (or thereabouts). Yet, 8 years ago my brother was allowed to be married in a full Catholic ceremony, with Eucharist, even though he had been confirmed in a Protestant church. He had been baptized Catholic (as all three of us older children were), did the pre-wedding classes with the parish, refused to commit to raising Catholic children, and yet was allowed to have the full ceremony for his wife's family's benefit. 

Yes, that's what I am learning here: DESPITE what they taught me in Catechism class, there's A LOT of local variation in how things get done.  It's probably going to come down to the individuals involved and how they feel about things.  

Which is why I would advise proceeding with caution and taking it slow.  Until you really know the individuals involved, this may be a lot to risk for nothing.  The Catholic Church is going to be there in 1, 3, 5, 10 years.  

On a lighter Catholic note, my Catholic friend on facebook is posting toasts from "Drinking with the Saints: The Sinner's Guide to a Holy Happy Hour".  May God bless us, every one.  

[keen23]

18 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

Yes, that's what I am learning here: DESPITE what they taught me in Catechism class, there's A LOT of local variation in how things get done.  It's probably going to come down to the individuals involved and how they feel about things.  

Which is why I would advise proceeding with caution and taking it slow.  Until you really know the individuals involved, this may be a lot to risk for nothing.  The Catholic Church is going to be there in 1, 3, 5, 10 years.  

On a lighter Catholic note, my Catholic friend on facebook is posting toasts from "Drinking with the Saints: The Sinner's Guide to a Holy Happy Hour".  May God bless us, every one.  

And the cynical part of me wonders if there are parishes that are power tripping and making things harder. Especially in this case where the Original Poster really wants to be Catholic, so they're holding her to all sorts of obligations, whereas my brother did not care so the church had no sway over his ideals (or his pockets, honestly).

[Coconut Flan]

There are priests willing to bend a bit, there are priests that follow the catechism exactly, and there are priests who add their own rules.   I'm so glad I live in a large enough area to be able to visit around and see the differences.  Sometimes it's due to the parish that they are assigned because some parishes are more conservative than others.  I used to stop for mass after work on the way home now and again and had to laugh when a couple of the older parishioners decided to yell at me for parking in "their" parking places.  Needless to say that would never have become my regular parish.

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I used to stop for mass after work on the way home now and again and had to laugh when a couple of the older parishioners decided to yell at me for parking in "their" parking places.

I don't remember parking spot offenses, but some folks in several churches I attended would get quite put out if anyone dared to sit in "their" pews. Pity the poor visitor who sat in the wrong pew! 

 

[punkiepie]

1 hour ago, EmmieJ said:

Very well said.  I'm not sure there is a god, but if there is an all-loving diety (which is how god is described in the religions I'm familiar with), then what really matters to that diety is what is in your heart; how have your lived your life; not human-imposed rules and restrictions. 

Although raised Catholic, I was also encouraged to have critical thinking skills.  So as I matured, started viewing things through a questioning lens, that's when I began moving away from the Catholic Church.  If women were really the root of original sin, and thus were supposed to suffer during childbirth in perpetuity for that sin - wait right there .... that's the first example of men getting a free pass.  So (allegedly) Eve tempted Adam to partake of the apple.  So Adam, being a weak man yet somehow still more god-like than the female Eve, couldn't resist her and took a bite.  Right there you should hear the sound of a record scratching.  That concept felt like a whole load of bullshit to legitimize women as less than men and it didn't work for me once I got old enough to really think about.  (Sorry to go off on a side rant, and I don't mean to denigrate anyone's particular beliefs.  I think religion can be an important source of comfort for many people.  But women are equal to men, and any religion or group that believes otherwise is not cool with me. )

 

I have no idea what I believe anymore. I’d say I’m more agnostic than anything, because who am I to decide which of the higher beings is the legit higher being?  But I’m not at a place where I can say I don’t believe there isn’t anything greater, or beyond, this mortal existence. 

After years of bible verse memorization, bible wars, sword drills (who can find the Bible verse the quickest)- I can definitely say indoctrination worked on me, so far as it means that I have an exceptional working memory and recall of the Bible and hymns. The other day someone said to me they needed to get their work done before night and I immediately began singing the hymn “work for the night is coming” without even thinking about it. I then rolled my eyes and said to myself “indoctrination.”

And when I read the post from @99bottlesofPlexus the first thing that popped into my mind was a bible verse, although for her, I think it would be appropriate: 1 Samuel 16:7: “Man looketh on the outward appearance, but God looketh on the heart.”

It’s your heart that matters, not appearances. Surely, this omniscient God knows your heart better than the Catholic Church and that is what should be your focus. 

[JMarie]

Wow, this thread has received a lot of action!  So I'll just chime in with my thoughts...

I went to Catholic school, even did a few years at a Catholic college.  I worked at a Catholic hospital.  I know a lot of Catholics, and, off the top of my head, there's only one who didn't use birth control or go the vasectomy route (and she was a little preachy).  And I have a relative who was denied an annulment after the first marriage ended.  The second marriage was a civil one, and after the first spouse died (many years later), the second marriage was blessed in the church.  The relative and second spouse (also Catholic) didn't feel any less Catholic, they just didn't receive Communion.

[Lisafer]

3 hours ago, punkiepie said:

 

I was raised fundie IFB, but my paternal grandma was Catholic.  Being very Baptist, my mom of course objected to any kind of infant baptism.  My grandma, fearing for my immortal soul, consulted with her priest, and with his blessing, she "baptized" me in the bathtub when I was 6 weeks old. Her priest told her that it would not be valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church, but it would be for God, as God required much less than the Catholic Church.  

 

I know this isn't the point of your post, but that's awful. If somebody baptized my kid without my knowledge or permission I'd be LIVID. My relationship with that person would be forever altered.

[feministxtian]

I did 12 years of Catholic schools in a pretty liberal (for the time) diocese. The parish I grew up in got more conservative after I was grown and gone. There was the priest who didn't want to do my mother's funeral Mass because she hadn't attended Mass in years...well...she was disabled and pretty much housebound after the strokes. Our (Baptist) pastor offered to do the service even though mom was Catholic because he was of the opinion that she believed and that was good enough for God and him. 

Don't get me going, there are many reasons I left the RCC, theological and otherwise...our church hasn't looked twice at us being divorced and remarried...when we were joining the church, he asked us a few questions about our previous marriages and evidently what we said was good enough for him...however, my X had our marriage annulled due to "lack of canonical form", so technically I am free to remarry in the RCC. My husband, who was also baptized Catholic could get his previous marriage also annulled due to "lack of canonical form", but neither one of us feels the need for that nor do either one of us care to be part of the RCC anyway. 

My pagan daughter is a C & E Catholic still...she goes for the smells and bells. She says the rituals are comforting for her, but she has no desire to really be a practicing Catholic anymore. 

@99bottlesofPlexus As for this "call" to return to the RCC...could it be you're just looking for the comfort of the rituals? I've been out of the RCC for over 20 years and every now and then I think about the rituals and think about going to Mass...then I remember that I can't buy into RCC theology anymore and the urge passes. 

Before you go bonkers, I think you should REALLY study what you're thinking of signing up for...here's a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church...a great starting point to see if what you believe REALLY lines up with RCC theology http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

[PennySycamore]

@punkiepie,  I still remember Sword Drills after about 55 years.  You'd get in trouble if you were trying to sneak your thumbs over the edge of the Bible so that you'd be able to look verses up quicker.  

[Georgiana]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I don't remember parking spot offenses, but some folks in several churches I attended would get quite put out if anyone dared to sit in "their" pews. Pity the poor visitor who sat in the wrong pew! 

 

I don't know how universal this is, but my mom always called the front pews the "visitors pews" because those were always the LAST pews to fill up.  And yes, we had to sit in the front when we visited other Churches, except for special masses because then that would be rude.  To this day my parents will spend way too much time considering the proper place to sit when they visit my grandma's church for Christmas.  

[AliceInFundyland]

I used to go to these Youth for Christ activities with my Southern Baptist best friend. They were so harmless I barely remember the content. But it freaked my militantly atheist father out. When I was away visiting family he went to one to make sure nobody was trying to CONVERT me. I wasn’t censored or restricted from anything as a kid/teen, except meat and Jesus.

[llucie]

As a catholic i am super confused by your question. I was under the impression that everyone baptized in the catholic church was already a catholic, unless you apostathe.

And second if your husband is not catholic, he surelly didnt had his previous marriage in a catholic church, then why does he need an anullement? anullement is only required for catholic marriages, if you have only a civil one and then divorce, you can marry in the church since the first marriage for them its like it didnt exist.

[feministxtian]

11 minutes ago, llucie said:

And second if your husband is not catholic, he surelly didnt had his previous marriage in a catholic church, then why does he need an anullement? anullement is only required for catholic marriages, if you have only a civil one and then divorce, you can marry in the church since the first marriage for them its like it didnt exist.

If you're Catholic you have to get an annullment anyway...if you were married in a civil ceremony, all you have to do is give them a copy of your marriage certificate, signed by the officiant and the tribunal basically rubber stamps it on the grounds of "lack of canonical form" which means that as a Catholic you're supposed to get married in the church and didn't. X and I were married by a judge...the tribunal rubber stamped the petition b/c the certificate/license was signed by a judge. 

[punkiepie]

1 hour ago, Lisafer said:

I know this isn't the point of your post, but that's awful. If somebody baptized my kid without my knowledge or permission I'd be LIVID. My relationship with that person would be forever altered.

Oh, my mom was pissed!  My aunt let it slip shortly after my grandma died, some 25 years after the fact, and my mom was still livid.  But by that time I had already left the church, so for me, it was more of a reminder of how the fear of Hell is such a toxic, but potent, motivator in controlling our lives. And my grandma, she thought she was saving me from hell, so in the end, for me, no harm no foul. But for my mom, you can still see the steam coming from her ears whenever it’s mentioned. 

[llucie]

17 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

If you're Catholic you have to get an annullment anyway...if you were married in a civil ceremony, all you have to do is give them a copy of your marriage certificate, signed by the officiant and the tribunal basically rubber stamps it on the grounds of "lack of canonical form" which means that as a Catholic you're supposed to get married in the church and didn't. X and I were married by a judge...the tribunal rubber stamped the petition b/c the certificate/license was signed by a judge. 

I was not aware of that, but anyway seems very easy procedure, nothing like the years and money that you would have to spend to get an anullement from a catholic wedding (if you even get it).

And would her husband have to get it if he was not catholic at the time and he doesnt plan to convert?

Also a catholic wedding between a catholic and a non-religius person is posible, so he doesnt need to convert.

[Lisafer]

27 minutes ago, punkiepie said:

Oh, my mom was pissed!  My aunt let it slip shortly after my grandma died, some 25 years after the fact, and my mom was still livid.  But by that time I had already left the church, so for me, it was more of a reminder of how the fear of Hell is such a toxic, but potent, motivator in controlling our lives. And my grandma, she thought she was saving me from hell, so in the end, for me, no harm no foul. But for my mom, you can still see the steam coming from her ears whenever it’s mentioned. 

Yeah, it was a massive overstep by your grandma, but in the end baptism only means something if you choose that path :). I was baptized as an infant in a Protestant church. I find that mildly annoying, but it doesn't mean I'm bound to Christianity forever or anything.

Sorry, I'm derailing. I hope the OP finds peace in one way or another.

[Beermeet]

3 hours ago, Georgiana said:

Yes, that's what I am learning here: DESPITE what they taught me in Catechism class, there's A LOT of local variation in how things get done.  It's probably going to come down to the individuals involved and how they feel about things.  

This has a lot to do with culture as well, IME.  For example: every Italian-American Catholic has a statue of Our Lady of Fatima.  My Mexican-American friends favor Our Lady of Guadalupe.   Both the Virgin Mary,  all involved are Roman Catholic.  At it's core, Roman Catholicism is what it is, we are of the same church and welcome into all RC churches and can rest easy that the mass will be as it always has been.  Individually, as cultures and the people within those cultures, things vary.  Many different ethnic peoples practice Catholicism along with the roots of their own cultures traditions.  

[desertvixen]

So I will say I have dealt with something similar.

Catholic me married not-Catholic now-ex (by an Army RC chaplain).  He would not convert but agreed to baptism of our child.

We divorce. 

I meet my partner now.  After a few years, start looking at what would I have to do to get remarried in the Church.  We spoke to a military archdiocese priest and were told that 1) it would be $500 for what amounted to a processing/costs fee and 2) they came up with a BS reason for the annulment - essentially that the chaplain's pre-cana was not rigorous enough.  So it's super-important...except when it's not?

I'm currently a lapsed Catholic.

[llucie]

21 minutes ago, desertvixen said:

So I will say I have dealt with something similar.

Catholic me married not-Catholic now-ex (by an Army RC chaplain).  He would not convert but agreed to baptism of our child.

We divorce. 

I meet my partner now.  After a few years, start looking at what would I have to do to get remarried in the Church.  We spoke to a military archdiocese priest and were told that 1) it would be $500 for what amounted to a processing/costs fee and 2) they came up with a BS reason for the annulment - essentially that the chaplain's pre-cana was not rigorous enough.  So it's super-important...except when it's not?

I'm currently a lapsed Catholic.

wow you were lucky only 500 dolars, i know people who have spend years and thousands of euros...

But as i said previously that is only needed when the previous marriage was a catholic one, its not the case of the person asking here since her husband is not catholic, so the procedure would be really simple, so i dont understand her drama sorry.

[Beermeet]

@99bottlesofPlexus  First off, love the user name!  Lol!

I've hesitated all day about writing this.  Because, I don't want to come off all " You're upset because you're on your period" like. Ugh!  With that disclaimer, and I say this out of love and experience,  you are post partum, with a darling 3 month old who is no doubt a bundle of joy......and huge change in routine, sleep deprivation,  changing dynamics between your husband and yourself as well as a major change in who you are, how you feel and see yourself.  I was with my husband a total of 5 years when #1 came.  A few months later, we had our first fight.  We suddenly were tired and a bit freaked out at all of it.  It took us time to adjust.  And, that was just baby not even attempting to sort our preferred religion/s.  It's a time of a lot of emotion and learning to become parents, a party of 3 now.  Enjoy this time.  It doesn't last long, they grow fast.  A trick I like to do on myself...."how would I look at this time in my life" as an old, old lady at the end of her life.  What would I wish I did or didn't do or say?  Helps me with perspective.   God is still with you, He will be there for you.  Right now, this is an important time to bond as a new and beautiful family of 3.  No matter the formalities,  religion can always be done.  Your first born will never be a baby again though.  There is nothing wrong with seeking higher faith but, please, don't let it overtake the here and now.  There is also nothing wrong wrong with seeking help and reaching out.  Which, you did do here. Seriously,  bravo!  Not easy but brave!  You got this, chin up!  IDK if you like to journal or make pros/cons lists but, can be helpful in clearing one's head as to remember the good happening.  I don't know about you but those first few months we're a challenge for me.  You will be ok.  Unless there is abuse or something bad like that , this is all doable and you will be ok.  *hug*

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

13 hours ago, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

Sorry, but I’m still really struggling with the idea that accepting his past and everything means I need to be unhappy. Particularly when he can get what he wants, but I can’t. It feels like I have to accept his beliefs, but he doesn’t have to accept mine, all because it’s going to take some sacrifices and stepping outside of his comfort zone. I had no idea when I married him that I was going to feel so strongly about becoming Catholic one day.

I don't understand this "becoming Catholic". You were baptised in the RCC so for the RCC you already are Catholic. I can't believe two mainstream Catholic priests told you that your husband needs to seek an annulment in order for you to become Catholic, it makes no sense and it's not how it works. It would make sense if you talked with priests belonging to an ultratraditionalist streak of Catholicism. Same for NFP. I was raised Catholic in a Catholic country and the first time I heard about NFP I was an adult, because I had met people belonging to a traditionalist congregation. Catholic priests aren't going to preach NFP here in a country where very few people would deem it acceptable.

Look for a mainstream Catholic parish and talk with the priest there. I bet there will be no such nonsense requirements.

Btw one of the many many reasons I left the Church is that Mister laPG is divorced. Since I've never married him for the Church everything would be ok if I left him and seeked reconciliation, I wouldn't be living in sin anymore. Except that it wouldn't sit well with me. BTW even if I didn't leave him the Church wouldn't shun me and I would still be welcome at Mass, it's me who don'ttake such level of cognitive dissonance very well.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

On 6/13/2018 at 6:16 AM, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

Just to clarify: I am aware that I can become Catholic without him converting as well. The two priests I have talked to were clear on that. I also would not expect or force my husband to become Catholic if he doesn’t want to. However, even if he doesn’t want to be Catholic, he would still need to get the first marriage annulled, so ours could be convalidated and I could be a Catholic in good standing. At least, this is my understanding. 

The priests were clear so yes it's a problem of your understanding, or more probably of you wanting what you want regardless of your husband feelings and making up reasons that aren't even there. If you go through RCIA you would be a Catholic in good standing as anyone else and able to take the Eucharist too.

Sorry but you sound very petty and childish when you say 

On 6/13/2018 at 4:55 AM, 99bottlesofPlexus said:

Those of you who think this about more than religion are right. I’m just tired of having to keep him happy/comfortable all the time. I just want him to go the distance for me, for once.

It's not like for once you are asking to go to dine at a restaurant he doesn't like or to go on holiday in a place of your choosing. You are asking him to follow the tenets of a religion he doesn't believe in. It's a huge deal. You sound exactly like my mother when she complains that other people's choices affect her life, when it's clear that the other people are just minding their own business and the affecting part comes directly from HER choices. Mother is a Catholic bigot so there's that.

You married your husband for what he is, past marriage included. If now you suddenly have problems with who he is, you have a problem with your marriage and tasking him with an absurd and unnecessary demand whining about him for once doing something for you isn't going to help.